Since PS4 & Xbone are x86...

hedron

hedron

Limp Gawd
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Apr 24, 2008
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495
...how long do you think it will be before we have an emulator?
 
Their being x86 does not mean it's easier to emulate.
 
A very long time. The current generation hasn't even been emulated yet. Just because the upcoming systems are x86 doesn't mean they will be easier to emulate. They still run on a closed platform and won't run natively on a PC.
 
Well I guess one advantage is that there's no need to recompile the instructions to execute them on x86 platform. This is one of the biggest problem for emulator, to convert the instructions to be able to run on x86 hardware, and I believe there are things that are lost in the process, hence all the weird result we see in emulators.
 
As the others have mentioned there are still technical hurdles as well as licensing issues ... each system still has their own proprietary OS and an emulator would likely violate their patents, trademarks, and copyrights (which means they would pursue any emulators legally with a vengeance) ... so I wouldn't hold my breath
 
I still think XboxONE will be the first one to possibly get cracked if you think about it.

First, they're using a modified Hyper-V to run two guest OSes-- Xbox OS for XboxONE games and a modified Windows 8 kernel for apps.

It would probably just take someone to make a hacked a version of Hyper-V, hack into the XOne to extract an image of the Xbox OS and then try running games from it.

Then again, I'm no programmer so I'm not sure that's even possible. There are still other proprietary things in their Hyper-V for XboxONE and Xbox OS that we will never know that cannot be emulated or hacked so easily. It took years to get the PS2 emulator to where it is now and it's still not 100% perfect. The same with the XB1 emulator as well. It's going to be many, many more years before we see a 360 or PS3 emulator as well since both use a variant of the CELL processor in both. And, even if both XOne and PS4 are x86-based, there's still going to be a huge hurdle to emulate them perfectly. The XOne might the "easiest" (and I say that lightly) to be attempted first since it's more Windows-like.
 
FnordMan said:
This.. the original XB1 was x86 and it still doesn't have a complete emulator yet.
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I'm of the understanding is that the only reason that we don't have an XB1 emu is because nobody has given it the proper time, energy and resources to make. And not because of any technical difficulties. But since the XB1 is basically a PC, technically speaking you wouldn't be writing an emulator for it. There's nothing to emulate.

Plus, there's the fact that the vast majority of games that came out on the Xbox are also available for PS2 and PC. So, why go through all the trouble for the small handful of exclusives? I think this is more a reason why an Xbone/PS4 "emulator" won't happen. And not because of technical issues. All that is, is a matter of throwing time, energy and resources at it. The question is, is it worth it?
 
socK said:
Their being x86 does not mean it's easier to emulate.
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Yeah it actually does. Being x86 means all that needs to be emulated is the OS on the console itself. The reason nobody bothered with the original xbox is all the games worth playing ended up on PC anyway.

If you think them being x86 dont make emulation vastly easier to accomplish you dont have a clue what you are talking about.

The other side to them being x86 means that there is little reason not to port directly to PC meaning outside of exclusive deals we should see ports of just about anything.
 
hedron said:
...how long do you think it will be before we have an emulator?
Click to expand...

When there are games worth emulating (which might be never), someone will look into and realize its not worth it due to the considerable expense (might need a dev unit to really do it) and they wont be able to sell it anywhere on planet earth and not get sued which means giving it away suddenly makes it unattractive to most people with the technical proficiency to do it.

Its like you guys have forgotten what emulation is even about or what drove the movement historically. Since xbone and ps4 will be watered down PC's playing watered down PC games, the idea of a PC emulating them is like a Ferrari wanting to emulate a Toyota.
 
Disposed said:
Yeah it actually does. Being x86 means all that needs to be emulated is the OS on the console itself.
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no no no no no no no no no

no no no no no

and finally no

This has been discussed plenty of times on these forums as well as numerous articles on the web. the answer is a firm.. no
 
Disposed said:
Yeah it actually does. Being x86 means all that needs to be emulated is the OS on the console itself. The reason nobody bothered with the original xbox is all the games worth playing ended up on PC anyway.

If you think them being x86 dont make emulation vastly easier to accomplish you dont have a clue what you are talking about.

The other side to them being x86 means that there is little reason not to port directly to PC meaning outside of exclusive deals we should see ports of just about anything.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you've realized it but there's more to a platform than just the CPU.
 
Keep thinking what you guys want but if you think it wouldn't be easier to emulate an x86 system vs PPC like the ps3 then you are wrong regardless of other discussions or articles...
 
Disposed said:
Keep thinking what you guys want but if you think it wouldn't be easier to emulate an x86 system vs PPC like the ps3 then you are wrong regardless of other discussions or articles...
Click to expand...

Well, someone who has actually worked on an XBOX emulator seems to disagree.
http://www.ngemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132032

Basically, I'm trying to get this "Xbox should be easy to emulate because it's just like a PC" crap out of your heads. I'm sure that most of you will disagree with me on this, but for these reasons and more, on a low level, Xbox is harder to emulate than PS2.
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socK said:
Well, someone who has actually worked on an XBOX emulator seems to disagree.
http://www.ngemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132032
Click to expand...

"Should be easy" and "Is easier than trying to emulate different architectures" are two vastly different statements.

Try again but its a simple fact of computing. Emulating something is easier if its the same architecture, one less hurdle. Emulating a different architecture is most of the problem with system emulation and one of the main reasons emulators require significantly more power to emulate than the base machine itself has.

I never claimed it would be easy i simply disputed the ignorant claim that it wouldnt be easier since it is in fact the same architecture. Thats an undeniable fact and im not even sure how you can dispute it...

Emulating something of the same underlying arch is easier than trying to emulate the same thing build for a different architecture. Fuck people theres nothing to even argue about it... :rolleyes:
 
Unless a bonafide software engineer/programmer/developer or whatever they like to call themselves chimes in, none of your responses on the matter are worth anything. Just a bunch of non-credible BS.
 
Since they are both x86, I doubt there will be enough demand for an emulator and doubtful anyone will put the time into developing it just like they did with original xbox. It will be infinitely easier for the developers to make PC versions, thus making console exclusives even less in number since the devs always cater to the easy buck. Now that it's so much easier for them, the only thing keeping games exclusive is Sony and MS dollars. Those dollars from MS and Sony will have to exceed the amount that a developer will project that they could potentially earn by making a PC version, even while including potential over inflated PC piracy numbers. Since XBone is already running an MS OS, I expect them to have even less exclusives.
 
Difficulty or easiness aside, how big a demand is there for an emulator ... People who own a console don't need one and most of the PC gamers who don't already own one or more consoles tend to look with disdain on console titles and complain about the consolification of the PC ... not sure who the exact audience of an emulator would be

A more useful emulation (if they could work out the control schemes) would be a PC to console emulator since there is far more variety and far more exclusives on the PC side than on the console side ;)
 
kbrickley said:
As the others have mentioned there are still technical hurdles as well as licensing issues ... each system still has their own proprietary OS and an emulator would likely violate their patents, trademarks, and copyrights (which means they would pursue any emulators legally with a vengeance) ... so I wouldn't hold my breath
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Does it look like that has stopped all of the emulators we have to date....
 
hedron said:
...how long do you think it will be before we have an emulator?
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Honestly? 2020+

We can BARELY emulate PS2 games , most are unstable and the ones that do run require a pretty decent rig. Wii games are much easier to emulate and Dolphin is far better supported with constant updates.

But I can't see anyone being able to emulate the Cell chips in the PS3 for a while. 360 emulation would probably be a huge pain in the ass thanks to Microsoft locking down the console with lots of encryption. You would have to break some kind of barrier like that PS3 hacker did by decrypting the PS3 master key allowing hackers to bring back Linux functionality and play backed up games. Right now its a massive pain in the ass to JTAG an Xbox 360.

So even 2020+ is a generous estimate.
 
MrGuvernment said:
Does it look like that has stopped all of the emulators we have to date....
Click to expand...

Companies may not care about the older systems enough to pursue the legal avenues ... for their newest systems (PS4 and XBoxOne) they would most definitely care ... the only way an emulator would not raise their legal ire would be if it required the purchase of the game disc (didn't work off of ISOs) and was licensed so that they received revenues from the company who did the emulator

Remember how the console video game model works ... they sell consoles for very low profit or a loss for the first few years ... they make almost all of their money from the companies who sell games for their system (and pay them licensing fees) or from online transactions in their stores (which they take a third of) or from sales of direct peripherals or licensed peripherals ... since a PC emulator potentially bypasses all three revenue streams they would view it in a hostile light ... emulation might be good for the gamer but it does nothing for the game system provider ;)
 
Godmachine said:
Honestly? 2020+

We can BARELY emulate PS2 games , most are unstable and the ones that do run require a pretty decent rig. Wii games are much easier to emulate and Dolphin is far better supported with constant updates.

But I can't see anyone being able to emulate the Cell chips in the PS3 for a while. 360 emulation would probably be a huge pain in the ass thanks to Microsoft locking down the console with lots of encryption. You would have to break some kind of barrier like that PS3 hacker did by decrypting the PS3 master key allowing hackers to bring back Linux functionality and play backed up games. Right now its a massive pain in the ass to JTAG an Xbox 360.

So even 2020+ is a generous estimate.
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Most ps2 games run flawless with modern emulators.

I do agree that its unlikely we'll see cell emulated anytime soon so your right on that front.

Linux functionality had nothing to do with playing backed up games for the PS3.

Its likely a xb1 emulator will be out the door before a ps4 one. By 2020? Perhaps. Why? The OS behind XB1 is already quite similar. The hardware isnt radically different, and the list goes on. If I have time in the future, I might actually sit down and go into details assuming time permits.
 
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