Rewiring house, suggestions?

I am completely rewiring a 60 year old house (1-story, ~1300sf, 3/2 bed/bath, attached 1-car garage, brick veneer on slab), all of the ceilings have been taken down and the walls are open in some places. I have decided to wire the house with CAT6 solid UTP and RG6 and have all the runs end up in a closet where I'll install a 19"x7' rack. I'll be getting Time Warner Cable at first, but expect to be getting Google Fiber here in Austin next year. So I think I'll have a conduit installed from the service to the closet to accommodate whatever they need to install at that time.

I'll be getting a 24-port patch panel, a 24-port unmanaged gigabit switch, UPS, NAS, router, cable box, etc. and putting all that in the closet. Specifically for the closet, do I need to do anything in terms ventilation (the attic will be unvented, semi-conditioned space so maybe just leave the closet ceiling open or vented), and where should the power and network drops be located? How important is rear access for a rackmounted system like this? I might be able to get a door installed either on the back side of the closet or one of the sides.

Also I don't have any plans for a security system at this point, but if I have CAT6 installed for say, an alarm panel and a couple of motion sensors, will that work for a subsequent installation?

TIA

Heat - may be a concern depending on exactly what you're putting in the closet. You may need to put louvers in the door to allow some passive airflow, and possibly do a fan and duct to the attic if it gets too warm. "silent bathroom fans" are usually high enough CFM to do this.

Power can probably go wherever you need it - above, below or beside the rack for access would likely be easiest. I would recommend against getting the jack run directly into the rack - from experience that can be a big PITA if you ever need to move it. Since it's a closet you should be able to surface mount some BX (if code allows) to a surface mount box if you don't need to hide the cable.

Sounds like you have a good handle on the patch panel.

Rear access can be a huge issue of hardware that has to be permanently mounted (like a UPS), but for switches, servers on sliding rails, etc. it's not too big a deal as long as you run cabling to accommodate.

For the Alarm - in my experience most alarm installers want to run their own cables since they can;t ensure the workmanship on pre-installed cabling (unless you go nuts and get it certified, even then....). It doesn't hurt to run your own too if you ever want to put up some cameras or something like that.

what are the specs of the NAS? Little unit like a 1-3 disk NAS or are we talking 5+?

If the nas wasn't in there I would say you are good to go on ventilation. NAS will be the deal breaker.

As far as rear access to the rack, if everything you are using is half-depth or less you can get away with a swing-out rack for convenience. Rear access on a "telco" closet isn't really every required, but it is nice.

Take my advice and run more cable than you think you need. 2x CAT6 and 1 RG6 to each side of each bedroom, 1x cat 6 to one side of kitchen and 1x cat6 and rg6 to where you might have a tv, 2x cat6 and 1x rg6 to garage, 4x (personally, i run 6) cat6 and 2x rg6 to living room. If you have an office run a minimum of 3x cat6 and 1x rg6 to that location. Also divide the house into 3rd's and run 2x cat6 to 2 boxes in the ceiling for future WAP's.

That will be 24-29 cat6 and 10-11 RG6 drops.

Don't use CAT6a, use regular cat6 and use RG6 tri-shield.

If you do it that way you will NEVER have to open the walls (or even wall plates for much of anything).

Run 1.5" flexible conduit from the inside wall by the service entrance to the closet. Don't bother running anything in conduit yourself, just get 4 pull strings left in there. TWC may want to run RG11 in and google fiber may want to run fiber all the way to the closet.

I have Google fiber...(Kansas City)

The ideal setup for them is ethernet cable run to every TV (Cat5e+ works). They also support RG11, but it's MOCA, and will be slower. You should have at least one run for every part of the house you will be putting a TV. Each TV requires a Google TV box which has a single ethernet jack in the back, so you can't attach multiple devices to it (I use wireless access points in multiple spots, then connect my tv box and other devices (xbox) to its built-in switch).

Regarding service. They will most likely not run fiber to your closet. They will run fiber to the nearest spot inside your house that is close to the demarc. So for example, they ran fiber into my basement to where the fiber jack is installed. From the fiber jack runs Cat5e to the network box. Think about where you are going to want this fiber jack. It will be somewhere near the outer demarc box (they will put it right next to TWC demarc most likely). They typically screw it into a joist, or floorboard or something. It requires power. If you want quick and painless install when they come by, run a CAT6 cable from where you think the fiber jack will be inside your house up to your closet. They *may* run fiber all the way up there, but from what the tech told me, they preferred to use CAT5E once inside the home.

Obviously you'll need the RG11 with Time Warner, but you'll ditch it completely once you get Google Fiber. Let me know if you have anymore questions, I'm happy to fill in on any other details regarding the gear.

I would do a cold/hot aisle setup, pump the heat to a place in the house that can use it. Grab cold air from a cool place of the house. Just ensure both those spots have an air return path, whether it's the existing ducting system or what not. Otherwise you are sucking air from one place and forcing it into another, and it will create high static pressure and not be as effective.

Go either Cat 5e or 6a. Skip Cat 6. More info in this thread.

Innocence said:

I would recommend against getting the jack run directly into the rack - from experience that can be a big PITA if you ever need to move it.

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Does this also apply to the network drops? I was planning on hooking the in-wall CAT6 drops directly to the patch panel on the rack.

bds1904 said:

what are the specs of the NAS? Little unit like a 1-3 disk NAS or are we talking 5+?

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Just a little 2-bay consumer NAS for now, but if that ever fills up then I'd probably be looking at more.

bds1904 said:

Take my advice and run more cable than you think you need. 2x CAT6 and 1 RG6 to each side of each bedroom, 1x cat 6 to one side of kitchen and 1x cat6 and rg6 to where you might have a tv, 2x cat6 and 1x rg6 to garage, 4x (personally, i run 6) cat6 and 2x rg6 to living room. If you have an office run a minimum of 3x cat6 and 1x rg6 to that location. Also divide the house into 3rd's and run 2x cat6 to 2 boxes in the ceiling for future WAP's.

That will be 24-29 cat6 and 10-11 RG6 drops.

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That's a little bit more than I'm planning on doing but not too far off... here's the rundown:

• Living room: 8 CAT6, 1 RG6
• Kitchen: 2 CAT6, 1 RG6
• Bedrooms (x3): 2 CAT6, 1 RG6
• Garage: 2 CAT6, 1 RG6

So 18 CAT6 and 6 RG6, leaving a few ports free for components in the closet itself.

bds1904 said:

Don't use CAT6a, use regular cat6 and use RG6 tri-shield.

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That's what I was planning, although another poster said to use CAT6a. I don't think there is any point in a house this size, no run will be more than 20M and it costs twice as much.

bds1904 said:

Run 1.5" flexible conduit from the inside wall by the service entrance to the closet. Don't bother running anything in conduit yourself, just get 4 pull strings left in there. TWC may want to run RG11 in and google fiber may want to run fiber all the way to the closet.

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Good call, it might be best to let the ISP handle their own stuff at least to the closet.

Phog said:

I have Google fiber...(Kansas City)

The ideal setup for them is ethernet cable run to every TV (Cat5e+ works). They also support RG11, but it's MOCA, and will be slower. You should have at least one run for every part of the house you will be putting a TV. Each TV requires a Google TV box which has a single ethernet jack in the back, so you can't attach multiple devices to it (I use wireless access points in multiple spots, then connect my tv box and other devices (xbox) to its built-in switch).

Regarding service. They will most likely not run fiber to your closet. They will run fiber to the nearest spot inside your house that is close to the demarc. So for example, they ran fiber into my basement to where the fiber jack is installed. From the fiber jack runs Cat5e to the network box. Think about where you are going to want this fiber jack. It will be somewhere near the outer demarc box (they will put it right next to TWC demarc most likely). They typically screw it into a joist, or floorboard or something. It requires power. If you want quick and painless install when they come by, run a CAT6 cable from where you think the fiber jack will be inside your house up to your closet. They *may* run fiber all the way up there, but from what the tech told me, they preferred to use CAT5E once inside the home.

Obviously you'll need the RG11 with Time Warner, but you'll ditch it completely once you get Google Fiber. Let me know if you have anymore questions, I'm happy to fill in on any other details regarding the gear.

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That's good to know, thanks. What about just putting a CAT6 in a box outside at the service? I could also certainly put another ethernet drop in the laundry room, outside of which is the electrical service. The wiring closet is about 30' away from there though, but it is more centrally located for all the other distribution. For internet, can you use your own router or do you have to use the one they provide? Or perhaps there is a way to bridge the two?

Red Squirrel said:

I would do a cold/hot aisle setup, pump the heat to a place in the house that can use it. Grab cold air from a cool place of the house. Just ensure both those spots have an air return path, whether it's the existing ducting system or what not. Otherwise you are sucking air from one place and forcing it into another, and it will create high static pressure and not be as effective.

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Well being in TX there is no place in the house that actually needs heat 9+ months out of the year, so I think just venting it into the attic would be easiest and most effective. However if I can get away with just louvered doors that would be good.

evilsofa said:

Go either Cat 5e or 6a. Skip Cat 6. More info in this thread.

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I didn't see anything convincing in that thread to skip Cat 6. What did I miss?

Thanks all for the advice so far!

Blahman said:

I didn't see anything convincing in that thread to skip Cat 6. What did I miss?

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In that thread I simply looked up what the various cables can do, and saw that in terms of the future, Cat5e might do 10 Gigabit Ethernet as far as 20 meters, Cat6 will do it to 55 meters, and Cat6a would do it to the full 100 meters. Since you have no run longer than 20 meters I don't see the point either, so I defer to those who know more about this than I do, about things like actual costs.

Like I said before, I wouldn't run anything in the conduit myself let the ISP do it. It won't cost you anything and providing the conduit will be WAY easier than any other house they do.

Best option for google fiber is to run the fiber all the way to the closet because the transceiver will be on your UPS. If you get a cool installer it will be no problem. It'll take 10 mins to pull the fiber. If he won't do that then it'll still only take him a min to pull cat5e/cat6.

The reason why I suggest 2x cat6 on 2 separate walls in each bedroom is because I see ethernet cords run around people's berooms all the time because they rearranged the room. Also, you want 2x cat6 at each wall plate in that situation for the STB + any other device (Smart TV, XBOX, PS, etc). Future expansion is covered.

Blahman said:

That's good to know, thanks. What about just putting a CAT6 in a box outside at the service? I could also certainly put another ethernet drop in the laundry room, outside of which is the electrical service. The wiring closet is about 30' away from there though, but it is more centrally located for all the other distribution. For internet, can you use your own router or do you have to use the one they provide? Or perhaps there is a way to bridge the two?

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Don't put cat6 outside, because the fiber jack they terminate the fiber into is for indoor use only. It's not all-weather by any means.

As for router, currently you have to use their network box. It's pretty rough around the edges, but I imagine by the time you get it in Austin there will be significant firmware upgrades. One of my biggest beefs is the DHCP server is barely configurable at all. You can't adjust many of the DHCP options (gateway, DNS, or disable DHCP altogether). Like I said, most likely this will be changed by the time you get it.

No DMZ, and no bridging is allowed right now. You can port forward, so it still functions fine. It also routes WAN-LAN at 1gbps, which quite a few consumer routers aren't capable of doing.

Thanks, yeah I bet the rough edges will be sorted out by the time they roll it out here.

On your guys' recommendations, I bumped it up to 26 CAT6, 7 RG6 and in-wall speaker wire for a 6.1 surround system... the installer wants ~$1500 in labor to install, but I provide the equipment (already had on hand most of the equipment and just ordered the rest today). Sounds reasonable to me, what do you guys think?

Also considering security, I have it basically narrowed down to FrontPoint and SimpliSafe for a subsequent installation, anyone have any experiences with these? The Yelp reviews are pretty critical of SimpliSafe but FrontPoint looks really good, though it is a bit more expensive:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/frontpoint-security-washington
http://www.yelp.com/biz/simplisafe-boston-home-security-cambridge

Both of their tech is mostly wireless and they have cellular monitoring, although the cameras do need line power so I'll just need to make sure there are appropriate exterior outlets.

Blahman said:

Both of their tech is mostly wireless and they have cellular monitoring, although the cameras do need line power so I'll just need to make sure there are appropriate exterior outlets.

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I'd double-check that with them. The cables for my cameras are split into video/power, and are powered from the same end as the DVR. No exterior outlets required.

Also if you are opening walls and ceilings try to install smurf tubes and run your wiring through that. once everything is closed up you will be able to use smurf tubes to run any future cable you need. Leave some rope inside the tubes and u can use it later to run something that you will need in a future

Not that they don't work, but I don't recommend a wireless alarm. Pick what equipment you like and go from there, but if you can hardwire everything. For e.g. wireless window sensor $50-100, battery needs to be replaced every 2 to 5 year and if you replace the alarm system down the road you may have to replace the sensors. Wired window sensor $1 (it's a magnetic reed switch), no battery and works with any alarm system that isn't total crap.

Don't prewire Cat anything for the alarm (except for phone & network wiring, obviously) use UL listed alarm cable. You're better off calling an alarm installer at this point as they'll know the correct things to use and be able to for e.g. put the motion sensors in the right place. Place them incorrectly (e.g. near windows, mirrors) and you'll have false alarms

Ademco Vista, DSC PowerSeries and ELK M1 are the more well known systems. ELK M1 has very good integration with automation systems and DSC is pretty decent too in that regards. All are UL listed and when properly installed will protect your home just the same. For e.g. in my office I have a DSC system integrated with the lights and air conditioning. Open the door in the morning and the lights and A/C turns on automatically, arm the alarm and the lights and A/C turn off.

Issue running wires to every window in an older house is the amount of work involved. Yes wireless sensors are expensive but so is the labor and time involved in running wire to every window. Note unlike network/phone wire, window wiring is always on an exterior wall which can make it a royal pain.

I choose a mix in my house when install an alarm. I went wireless on doors and windows, but wired on motions and smoke. Yes your list of downsides to wireless is correct, however the battery thing is not that big a deal. Most of the sensors can easily get closer to 5 years on a battery some adverstise 10. I have not replaced any of my window sensors yet and they are all 5 years old. Doors I did have to replace at the 3 year mark, I suspect due to those being opened and closed more often.

Note I used the Elk M1 and have been very happy with it, have it integrated with my Insteon equipment via an ISY.

Also another benefit to wireless sensors is you do not have to drill your windows, if you have a warranty on your windows you do not want to drill holes in them. I guess with wired you could just run the wire around the frame but that would be pretty ugly. I used the TX-1010-01-1 - DesignLine Door/Window Sensor by GE Interlogix which are nice an slim so that are not that visible on the windows. The doors I used plunger style sensors.

I was skeptical about going wireless, and TBH if I was to build a new house I'd still want to go wired, but for retro fit wireless works fine. I've had my system for probably 3 years now and I only changed one battery so far recently. Oddly it was on a door that's never used. It's incredible though, it's just a tiny button battery and it lasted all that time.

Red Squirrel said:

I was skeptical about going wireless, and TBH if I was to build a new house I'd still want to go wired, but for retro fit wireless works fine. I've had my system for probably 3 years now and I only changed one battery so far recently. Oddly it was on a door that's never used. It's incredible though, it's just a tiny button battery and it lasted all that time.

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Yep the battery life of the wireless stuff is pretty good. Most of them last almost as long as the shelf life of the battery.

And if I where building a new house I would probably go with wired.

Also forgot to mention something you could due to reduce the number of wireless window contacts you have. Many wireless sensors have a wired input. You can then connect a wired sensor to this wireless sensor. Very useful for places like 2 windows close together, use one wireless and then one wired.

Actually I would not even bother with the windows. If you do the windows, to do it right you need the glass break sensors + the contacts. If you only have a glass break sensor they'll just pry the window, if you only have a contact they'll break the window, in fact if you have both they'll just use a glass cutter, so you almost need a laser too.

So instead of doing something drastic for each window just go for a few motion detectors in key areas. The door sensors will catch the really stupid criminals right off the bat, but if a smarter one gets in the motion sensors will then catch them too as they'll have to pass by it.

Red Squirrel said:

Actually I would not even bother with the windows. If you do the windows, to do it right you need the glass break sensors + the contacts. If you only have a glass break sensor they'll just pry the window, if you only have a contact they'll break the window, in fact if you have both they'll just use a glass cutter, so you almost need a laser too.

So instead of doing something drastic for each window just go for a few motion detectors in key areas. The door sensors will catch the really stupid criminals right off the bat, but if a smarter one gets in the motion sensors will then catch them too as they'll have to pass by it.

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Window sensors also let you know if you left a window open before you leave. If you have kids prevents they sneak out

m1abram said:

Window sensors also let you know if you left a window open before you leave. If you have kids prevents they sneak out

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Yeah true, does not hurt to have them for reasons like that, quick way to know the status before heading out instead of checking them all.

Red Squirrel said:

Actually I would not even bother with the windows. If you do the windows, to do it right you need the glass break sensors + the contacts. If you only have a glass break sensor they'll just pry the window, if you only have a contact they'll break the window, in fact if you have both they'll just use a glass cutter, so you almost need a laser too.

So instead of doing something drastic for each window just go for a few motion detectors in key areas. The door sensors will catch the really stupid criminals right off the bat, but if a smarter one gets in the motion sensors will then catch them too as they'll have to pass by it.

Click to expand...

Another thing to think about is whether you use the alarm at night. I turn on my alarm in "stay" mode when I know the doors/windows won't be opened any more that evening. In this mode, the motion sensors will be off but door and window sensors will still be activated.

lazy7689 said:

Another thing to think about is whether you use the alarm at night. I turn on my alarm in "stay" mode when I know the doors/windows won't be opened any more that evening. In this mode, the motion sensors will be off but door and window sensors will still be activated.

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The ELK M1 has a night mode which is like "stay" mode, however you may want some motion sensors active during night mode that you would not want in "stay" mode. In our case "night mode" only differs from "away mode" in that the upstairs motion is disabled so people can go to and from the bathroom at night, but go downstairs for a midnight snack and all hell breaks lose (we have no kids in the house). Other trick you can do with night mode is trigger home automation scripts when you put the alarm in night mode.

m1abram said:

The ELK M1 has a night mode which is like "stay" mode, however you may want some motion sensors active during night mode that you would not want in "stay" mode. In our case "night mode" only differs from "away mode" in that the upstairs motion is disabled so people can go to and from the bathroom at night, but go downstairs for a midnight snack and all hell breaks lose (we have no kids in the house). Other trick you can do with night mode is trigger home automation scripts when you put the alarm in night mode.

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Ah, the benefits of a 2-story home. I only have a single story with a sensor in the common spaces, my office and my bedroom so it's all or nothing w/ the sensors.