New Steam Controller

kbrickley said:
I would actually liked to have seen them use a highly accurate motion chip with gyroscope so that minor hand movements could be used (like a mouse) ... that could be useful as a mouse replacement ... but outside of the console crowd who is already used to finger control of games I don't see as much appeal for the PC user who is used to the accuracy and movement of a mouse ... perhaps that is just me though :cool:
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Trouble with motion sensing will always be latency. Even with Kinect2.

Keep in mind they aren't trying to convert the already converted (PC gamers) here -- i.e. people that use a mouse/keyboard on their gaming rig at a desk - it's not going to be superior to that for people that prefer that approach. But fact of the matter is most gaming is done in living rooms and/or on TV's, not sitting at a desk. Look no further than GTA5 sales. And to grow marketshare, by definition you've got to siphon it from outside of your own. That means attracting console players and/or people that prefer playing on a comfortable seat in front of a TV.

Growing the marketshare of PC gaming by pushing into the livingroom benefits all PC gamers, including the ones that prefer KB+M+Desk. This controller is looking to improve on the tired old analog stick controller paradigm with super-sensitive pads that are NOT like trackpads at all -- and come much closer to mouse-like precision. This controller is a hybrid device that will fit well with their goal of breaking into the livingroom. And by the accounts of developers that have already tested it at Valve, it'll be the closest you can get to approaching keyboard/mouse precision in a handheld/controller format.
 
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I don't really like the idea either. Xbox controller are perfect. I could be mistaken. I'd like to give a try to these new controller from huh valve.

Nothing beat a keyboard and mouse for fps even in the living room.:cool:
 
Mak54291 said:
I don't really like the idea either. Xbox controller are perfect.
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Comfortabe to hold but sorry, instant and precise aiming sucks on the analog sticks found on a xbox/playstation controller. I've been using them as long as they've existed.

Mak54291 said:
Nothing beat a keyboard and mouse for fps even in the living room.:cool:
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That's not the design goal with this controller. Its not Valve trying to tell PC gamers "this is better than your mouse and keyboard". Its Valve telling livingroom/console gamers: "this is way more instant and precise than analog sticks and gets very close to KB+M precision without needing a KB+M in your living room." Secondarily its telling existing PC gamers: "This is ideal for when you're in the mood to sit on a couch in front of a TV without lugging a keyboard/mouse down and somehow balancing it on your lap".

Valve is not trying to convert people that are already Steam gamers. They're trying to attract people that aren't. And regardless of whether or not you "see the point" in this SteamOS+Steam Machine+Steam Controller strategy, it will benefit every PC gamer by increasing PC gaming marketshare.
 
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i figured they would announces Source 2 and HL3 but that it would only run on Linux / Steambox :D

Sorry a single thumb will never be close to a hand and a mouse.
 
DPI said:
That's not the design goal with this controller. Its not Valve trying to tell PC gamers "this is better than your mouse and keyboard". Its Valve telling livingroom/console gamers: "this is way more instant and precise than analog sticks and gets very close to KB+M precision without needing a KB+M in your living room." Secondarily its telling existing PC gamers: "This is ideal for when you're in the mood to sit on a couch in front of a TV without lugging a keyboard/mouse down and somehow balancing it on your lap".

Valve is not trying to convert people that are already Steam gamers. They're trying to attract people that aren't. And regardless of whether or not you "see the point" in this SteamOS+Steam Machine+Steam Controller strategy, it will benefit every PC gamer by increasing PC gaming marketshare.
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I was searching for a reason for these controller. Now I have one. It's not near a KB N M for me. Maybe I could try it before saying this but I'm about sure I won't like this controller and I will still prefer a KB N M andby far.
 
DPI said:
Trouble with motion sensing will always be latency. Even with Kinect2.

Keep in mind they aren't trying to convert the already converted (PC gamers) here -- i.e. people that use a mouse/keyboard on their gaming rig at a desk - it's not going to be superior to that for people that prefer that approach. But fact of the matter is most gaming is done in living rooms and/or on TV's, not sitting at a desk. Look no further than GTA5 sales. And to grow marketshare, by definition you've got to siphon it from outside of your own. That means attracting console players and/or people that prefer playing on a comfortable seat in front of a TV.

Growing the marketshare of PC gaming by pushing into the livingroom benefits all PC gamers, including the ones that prefer KB+M+Desk. This controller is looking to improve on the tired old analog stick controller paradigm with super-sensitive pads that are NOT like trackpads at all -- and come much closer to mouse-like precision (this according to several developers that have already tried it and liked it). It also has buttons on the back, so the bandwidth in what are normally unused fingers on standard Xbox/Playstation controllers (middle, ring, pinky) doesn't go to waste. You're literally using all ten fingers if you want. Gabe Newell himself said a long time ago there is far more bandwidth in your wrists and fingers than--say--waving your arm around for a motion controller. Just like you type far faster on a qwerty keyboard than when using two thumbs on a tablet/phone.

This controller is a hybrid device that will fit perfectly with their Steam Machine strategy of pushing into the livingroom. It'll be the closest you can get to a keyboard/mouse without using a keyboard/mouse.
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Yeah, I am okay trying to convert the console folks over from the Dark Side (I just don't play a lot of games that benefit from being on my lower resolution 120" screen and using a controller so this has limited wow factor for me) ... I just hope Valve/Steam continue to innovate in other areas besides hardware ... although I think their Project Greenlight has helped bring some good indie titles to market, I would like to see Steam add a Kickstarter competitor (maybe with a matching component that would be refunded by the developer through sales over time) ... I still think there are lots of software opportunities on the PC front that will make the PC gaming base broader and the games better and more diverse :cool:
 
the controller looks neat but i'm concerned about button placement. i'm also concerned w/ the SteamOS being another platform developers need to code for which adds to developer costs and time.

Also, for SteamOS, they are saying you need a separate gaming PC for windows games (or dual boot maybe). So, if you want to convert your gaming/HTPC to a Steam Machine you can but if you want to play windows games you'll have to stream it from another gaming system. Now, for PC gaming on a tv you don't need top of the line hardware to run full detail @1080p but it is still a pretty decent investment, especially if you need two of them. please correct me if i'm wrong.
 
You can recline in your chair you don't have to use a mouse and keyboard this is great.
I might sell my PS4 when I get it if Dark Souls 2 will be good for this I bet it cost 100.00 though still a great idea.
 
You can relax with a keyboard and mouse on a sofa.
This is how I am typing this, supported by large feather cushions and a pillow under my arm as I lie almost sideways.
The keyboard doesnt need to be exactly flat, its resting at one end on my leg, the other on the sofa.
Some mice are brilliant for sofa use, the best I've found is the Steelseries Sensei.

Even so, I'll very likely get one of these controllers.
My main concern is how good they will be for racing games, an analogue joypad stick is the perfect convenience controller for racing imo.
 
A moist/sweaty finger on a track pad never feels right and smudges the whole thing up. I liken this to playing an FPS game on an ipad, and I absolutely hate the feel of my thumb sliding on a screen with no tactile feedback at all. Not even so much vibrations, but the feeling that your fingers are making progress on whatever device they are touching. Sorry Valve, not for me.
 
This features excellent feedback, it might be just what you want.
 
Thumb track pads, even if they are the most epic track pads better than any other track pad we've seen before, still don't sound like a great input method to me. I'll wait to try it, but it isn't making me excited in the slightest.
 
I dunno, i hate not to have any feedback. I play gta and max payne on the ipad every now a then and it sucks. I like valve so I would give it a try.
 
r3awak3n said:
I dunno, i hate not to have any feedback. I play gta and max payne on the ipad every now a then and it sucks. I like valve so I would give it a try.
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well it has feedback, but how good that feedback is we wont really know till we try it
 
If valve can make the thing work some people are going to use this for sure. I wont be one of them, I'm the elitist sort that holds his views about his mouse in much the same way Charlton Heston felt about his guns.

That said I'm almost 100% positive that this thing will not function the way it will be advertised. Touch controls are just terrible for gaming imo as human beings we need a tactile sense of real input for gaming. My first example for this would be touch screen controls on a phone. Any newer phone has excellent tracking, at this point accuracy is not the issue but using touch screen controls for say a ROM is still really annoying and just doesn't feel right to me. My second example and probably one fewer people will be able to relate to, is just how terrible the most recent track pad experience I've had has been. The Xperia play uses track pads for joysticks on the controller. They do not work, you loose a sense of orientation with them constantly and end up having to double back on your self to get them to do what you want them to.

I'm sure when this controller gets released there will be people on both sides of the isle, some saying its amazing but most I'm guessing will be saying its just not a viable alternative to a mouse and keyboard. How many PC games do you really want to play with a controller? How many of you can honestly say you wouldn't just pick up a 30 dollar 360 controller and use a wireless mouse from your couch? Especially when this controller will undoubtedly be the far more expensive option.
 
Did you read the article?
They talk about precisely what you are complaining about.
Haptics

Trackpads, by their nature, are less physical than thumbsticks. By themselves, they are “light touch” devices and don’t offer the kind of visceral feedback that players get from pushing joysticks around. As we investigated trackpad-based input devices, it became clear through testing that we had to find ways to add more physicality to the experience. It also became clear that “rumble”, as it has been traditionally implemented (a lopsided weight spun around a single axis), was not going to be enough. Not even close.

The Steam Controller is built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators. These small, strong, weighted electro-magnets are attached to each of the dual trackpads. They are capable of delivering a wide range of force and vibration, allowing precise control over frequency, amplitude, and direction of movement.

This haptic capability provides a vital channel of information to the player - delivering in-game information about speed, boundaries, thresholds, textures, action confirmations, or any other events about which game designers want players to be aware. It is a higher-bandwidth haptic information channel than exists in any other consumer product that we know of. As a parlour trick they can even play audio waveforms and function as speakers.
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why the fuck do people hate reading so much? all over the internets it's the same thing, thread after thread of illiterates griping over each and every feature, that was carefully explained in plain english between all the scary pictures.

where is the dpad? why is the button layout so retarded? touchpads suck, where are the controls for my 3rd thumb?

Winwolf said:
That said I'm almost 100% positive that this thing will not function the way it will be advertised. Touch controls are just terrible for gaming imo as human beings we need a tactile sense of real input for gaming. My first example for this would be touch screen controls on a phone. Any newer phone has excellent tracking, at this point accuracy is not the issue but using touch screen controls for say a ROM is still really annoying and just doesn't feel right to me. My second example and probably one fewer people will be able to relate to, is just how terrible the most recent track pad experience I've had has been. The Xperia play uses track pads for joysticks on the controller. They do not work, you loose a sense of orientation with them constantly and end up having to double back on your self to get them to do what you want them to.
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congrats, you somehow missed the single most innovative thing about this controller, and how they managed to solve every problem you had with some completely irrelevant piece of hardware.

Dual trackpads

The most prominent elements of the Steam controller are its two circular trackpads. Driven by the player’s thumbs, each one has a high-resolution trackpad as its base. It is also clickable, allowing the entire surface to act as a button. The trackpads allow far higher fidelity input than has previously been possible with traditional handheld controllers. Steam gamers, who are used to the input associated with PCs, will appreciate that the Steam Controller’s resolution approaches that of a desktop mouse.
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though I could see at first glance how this can easily be overlooked tbh, I think they made a mistake by not making this feature way, way more prominent, and not explaining the tech behind it. but this is huge, as in groundbreaking. microsoft and sony if they're smart, are going to look at this scratching their heads, going why the fuck did we never think of this before. and either way they'll be copying it later to some degree, I guarantee it.

look back at this post when they release their 'me too' apps and go, holy shit mas can see the future, this guy is like some kind of gamepad savant. or when they don't, you can say what an idiot this thing sucks, he had no idea what he was talking about. but if the developer of super meat boy, arguably one of the most nuanced and precise platformers out there can just pick it up and play, working right out of the box with a few tweaks, and then give it the thumbs up, I think maybe they're onto something here.
 
Winwolf said:
How many PC games do you really want to play with a controller?
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Depends where I feel like playing. If I'm sitting on the couch, all of them. If I'm sitting at my desk with my expensive gaming PC, I'll use a KB+M instead. Up to now, the barrier to playing Crysis 1 or FarCry3 or Skyrim w/ 100 mods in my living room on 70" TV at rock-steady 60FPS with 5.1 surround was high enough that I didn't bother--don't feel like dragging my PC back and forth to the TV. However, a low-cost box to put my PC game on the TV, and a controller that lets me aim a sniper rifle headshot much faster than a 360 controller, and spin the camera around Faster than a 360 controller, that's a big deal and removes the barriers to PC gaming greatness in my living room.

The "pick up and go" aspect of a handheld controller is very compelling. I can try to figure out some lap board scheme to have a keyboard & mouse work while I'm sitting on the couch, but I won't - its cumbersome. And if a higher precision controller gives me "close enough" mouse-like precision, then I _really_ don't care about KB+M on the couch.

Bottom line the controller is not trying to replace the KB+M, its trying to get as close to it as possible in a handheld format while blowing past status quo analog sticks for the purpose of opening up the choice of playing in the living room. And last time I checked, having more choice is a good thing.
 
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mas said:
though I could see at first glance how this can easily be overlooked tbh, I think they made a mistake by not making this feature way, way more prominent, and not explaining the tech behind it. but this is huge, as in groundbreaking. microsoft and sony if they're smart, are going to look at this scratching their heads, going why the fuck did we never think of this before. and either way they'll be copying it later to some degree, I guarantee it.
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The Xbox and Dual Shock thumb sticks already act as buttons, I don't see how the trackpad acting as a button is in any way a new innovation. That being said I'm cautiously optimistic about the steam controller, if it can actually bride some of the gap between keyboard and mouse and a dual shock I'll be very impressed.
 
Johnked6 said:
The Xbox and Dual Shock thumb sticks already act as buttons, I don't see how the trackpad acting as a button is in any way a new innovation. That being said I'm cautiously optimistic about the steam controller, if it can actually bride some of the gap between keyboard and mouse and a dual shock I'll be very impressed.
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comparing this to thumbsticks? you must be joking

sorry I didn't realise this had been done before, where can we see an example of this old tech that someone else already thought of, and decided was not worth marketing
 
mas said:
comparing this to thumbsticks? you must be joking

sorry I didn't realise this had been done before, where can we see an example of this old tech that someone else already thought of, and decided was not worth marketing
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You missed the point of your own rant, you said in bold letters regarding the trackpad acting as buttons, "It is also clickable, allowing the entire surface to act as a button". You then said how innovative that was, I was just pointing out that the thumbsticks are clickable just like the trackpad and it is not that innovative. I was not talking about the trackpad functionality themselves just the button part. I wouldn't have made that comment if you didn't bold and enlarge that part of your sentence.
 
Johnked6 said:
I was not talking about the trackpad functionality themselves just the button part.
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so you are deliberately taking my point out of context, to perpetuate a false argument. what do you hope to gain by doing this, for the lulz I hope?

since to ignore the unprecidented combination of these 2 mechanics, for some petty allegiance to something familiar, now that would just be sad.
 
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Reminds me of the old Turbo Touch 360 controllers for the Snes / Genesis back in the day.

Can't wait to try one out regardless, always looking for something that lets me loaf on the couch and play video games.
 
I don't have high hopes for this controller for games that aren't designed to take advantage of it. Even then, I don't think it would really perform better than a standard controller for most popular games. The games that the makers are likely thinking of (strategy, sim, etc), I think I'd probably rather use a keyboard and mouse. I have tables designed specifically for the couch for that, so that's what I'd use.

Again, considering that I haven't tried it, I'm only going on what I've used previously when building an idea of the device in my head. I'm thinking combining a Wii U Pro controller + a clicky touchpad + trackballs (people who have used it describe the feeling similar to a trackball somehow) to get some idea, but that's probably not all that close.
 
It looks effing retarded. Good luck playing 6 button / 8 button fighting games.
 
MrAgmoore said:
It looks effing retarded. Good luck playing 6 button / 8 button fighting games.
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It's not as if that's a popular genre on PC. Also, there is nothing stopping you from continuing to use a 360 pad for games that work better on those. Valve was looking to create a controller for games that don't currently work on controllers. For RTS and Strategy games this should be great. Seems promising for FPS too.
 
I just hope whatever multicontroller support they have can be extended to mice and keyboards. Very few games seem to be able to pull off multiple mouse and keyboards.
 
Viper87227 said:
It's not as if that's a popular genre on PC. Also, there is nothing stopping you from continuing to use a 360 pad for games that work better on those. Valve was looking to create a controller for games that don't currently work on controllers. For RTS and Strategy games this should be great. Seems promising for FPS too.
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Oh right, it's just designed for MMOs and First Person Shooters then? Visionary. :rolleyes:
 
MrAgmoore said:
Oh right, it's just designed for MMOs and First Person Shooters then? Visionary. :rolleyes:
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I don't think you're grasping what the purpose of this controller is. There is no reason for Valve to make a traditional controller. For games that play better on those, there are existing solutions that people can continue to use. It wouldn't solve the problem of bringing games to the living room that do not work on a normal gamepad, which is where Valve's emphases lies. If you aren't looking to play games on your TV that currently require a mouse and keyboard, than this controller isn't for you. Keep using your gamepad and move on.
 
MrAgmoore said:
Oh right, it's just designed for MMOs and First Person Shooters then? Visionary. :rolleyes:
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Yep, like your interpretation.
Having a tantrum over progress that doesnt need to impact you in any way, special.
 
Doesn't anyone remember the atari days when you'd have different controllers for different purposes/games? Heck, I had paddle controllers, gamepads, AND joysticks on one system! On my computer I've had a wheel, gamepad, joystick, and KB/M. One controller to rule them all has never really been a thing.

A new controller that makes more genres possible on consoles is a good thing! One of the most positive critiques I've heard is that the devs of Super Meat Boy didn't have any trouble with it... and that is a twitch game requiring serious finesse.
 
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well its not really that different now, you have guitars, drums, dance pads.
 
The trackpad areas look like great concepts, giving the minute control of a mouse, but I'm not sure it'll work if the texture isn't right.
 
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