How NVIDIA could rain on AMD's parade

Writing in some custom API (for AMD) + a standard one like DirectX or OpenGL (to support EVERYONE ELSE) is too time consuming and costly for most developers to consider it practical. Thrown in two vendor-specific APIs and most of them will just say "screw it" and go with the path of least resistance.

Not really. This isn't all that hard for game devs, as they already build the engine to be largely 3D API agnostic due to needing to support OpenGL, DirectX 9, DirectX 10/11, 2 console APIs, and perhaps OpenGL ES. With Mantle basically being the next gen console API, I suspect more games will support it than not, there's not really any reason for them not to. Which API is used tends to be a fairly small part of the engine.

Now, will devs leverage Mantle to do totally new and awesome stuff with the ability to mix compute and rendering efficiently at will? Probably not. But will they use it for the free performance? Definitely.
 
Sadly, Nvidia is the only option I can consider for a new GPU. Various software I use rely on CUDA acceleration and AMD cards frequently cause display issues and weird bugs due to their drivers.
 
1.) Release a Titan ultra. A fully unlocked and highly clocked GK110
2.) Rename the regular Titan the 785 and drop it's price to $650 or whatever
3.) Drop the price of the 780 and 770 to match.
4.) Release a GK110 based 790

5) Bundle their cards with blow jobs from Rhianna.
 
Not really. This isn't all that hard for game devs, as they already build the engine to be largely 3D API agnostic due to needing to support OpenGL, DirectX 9, DirectX 10/11, 2 console APIs, and perhaps OpenGL ES. With Mantle basically being the next gen console API, I suspect more games will support it than not, there's not really any reason for them not to. Which API is used tends to be a fairly small part of the engine.

Now, will devs leverage Mantle to do totally new and awesome stuff with the ability to mix compute and rendering efficiently at will? Probably not. But will they use it for the free performance? Definitely.

Personally i prefer wait and see aproach concerning new ground breaking technologies that will revolutionize gaming.

Games using mantle will be released, we will see how many and what performance advantage they offer and then see if it was worth being excited.

With most current "next gen" games being upgraded versions of ps3/x360 titles I'd think we are looking at late 2014 - early 2015 before it starts to seriously matter. And in 2015 it will be upgrade time for me anyway.
 
§kynet;1040227335 said:
For example?

I do environment art for video games as a hobby,

xNormal for baking textures, it can use Optix/CUDA which allows a sub 100$ card like the GT240 to be faster than a i7 920

3D Coat uses CUDA for voxel sculpting http://3d-coat.com/wiki/index.php/12.1_CUDA_Basics

In general you see and hear a lot more video game artists having issues and bugs with AMD cards, a lot of them have at least one AMD horror story. I know most people will agree AMD has had some buggy drivers in the past, but as recently as last year with Catalyst 12.4 and 12.3, there was viewport issues in a bunch of 3d applications like 3ds Max, Maya, Softimage, etc. And these issues aren't always small graphical bugs, sometimes they cause meshes to explode and ruin projects and force you to go back to older saves.
 
Might not have a choice if you need or want features that only Nvidia cards have :rolleyes:
Physx? No one cares about that.

If you mean "drivers lol" then AMD is on par with nV for single card drivers. Its CF that needs work. Hopefully AMD did some things with Hawaii GPU's that does a better job of fixing CF.
 
If that happens, developers will just write in DirectX and OpenGL and call it a day.
The problem with DX is that MS has pretty much stopped development of it. OpenGL game development is nearly dead and its Windows support has suffered for quite a while. AMD or nV are almost being forced to do their own API's of some sort in the future by this.

For Mantle to take off, AMD + Intel + Nvidia will all have to support it.
If AMD didn't have all the consoles using their hardware this statement would probably be true*. Given that they current do actually have nearly every game developer working with their hardware AMD actually has a decent chance of pulling this off. Provided of course they don't do anything stupid with their business practices or with the way they implement their API.

In the end as long as AMD still maintains some sort of decent windows driver that works well enough with DX games with whatever GPU they make in the future they'll have all their bases covered.

Actually, I'd love Glide compatibility.
Nah all you need is a good Glide wrapper or JIT that comes with the drivers done by AMD, nV, or Intel themselves.

*I'd say Intel's support doesn't matter at all. While Intel has a huge chunk of the GPU market share they're almost exclusively used to just run the desktop in a office environment. Almost only casual games seriously try and target their hardware and they do so by making the games as graphically undemanding as possible.
 
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What if.... Well it is too late. AMD has new cards which are from day 1 of their release going to offer a much better performance/value experience. Old NVIDIA cards are going to depreciate because they are no longer able to compete with AMD.


Only thing that NVIDIA can really do is make a better performance/value card.
 
A low level API that works across different architectures doesn't really make sense. Nvidia has nothing to gain from this.

Skip to 11:47. "So I've been talking about this type of approach for years with the various graphics vendors"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLt5RVGJfQY

Very first slide after he introduces mantle.
7uYQ72G.jpg


And if you want a little bit of history when this all got started read this from 2 years ago:
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/120
like someone mentioned already, "cross platform" there was referring to OS.

Last sentence is key. When a game engine supports mantle ALL games built on it will support mantle without the need for any particular developer to do any extra work.

The last sentence is indeed very important. There are many people that think all developers will have twice as much work to do coding for both directx/opengl and mantle, however, this isn't the case. Most game developers do not build the core engine components (graphics, sound, physics, etc) so only the graphics engine developers would have to strongly consider coding for both.

However, this sentence does nothing to backup the idea that this benefits nvidia. Nowhere do they say nvidia can leverage this as well.

It really doesn't make sense how nvidia could benefit from a low level API made by AMD.

bla bla bla uneducated trolling bla bla
Sorry what was that?

From the quickness of your reply I know you didn't read nor listened to the presentation therefore your uneducated assumption is nothing more than word vomit. People, please try to do better you are embarrassing to watch

You are rude.
 
By releasing an actual next-gen product instead of AMD's rebrand and 7970 on steroids.

Hell ya! NVidia's history of never rebranding and rehashing prior generation of video cards would show the world how it's done!
 
What if.... Well it is too late. AMD has new cards which are from day 1 of their release going to offer a much better performance/value experience. Old NVIDIA cards are going to depreciate because they are no longer able to compete with AMD.


Only thing that NVIDIA can really do is make a better performance/value card.

From the looks of it everything is a rebadge or old chip except Hawaii. So besides gk110 everything can be countered by a price cut. And from material directly from amd it looks like 290x competes with gtx 780(amds fastest card, 5tf(7970ghz is 4.3tf), amd stress efficient I efficency over performance and possibly 8000 Firestone score). It doesn't look like a titan killer at all.
 
Except for being a whole 40% cheaper or so even assuming it has no performance advantage.
 
For $600, though... it won't be an easy job to have people choose 290x over 780.

Well, they are bundling BF4 and probably 2-3 other games, so even if it is $600, it's still a great value.

But, it's not going to be $600, kyle already got that confirmed. So, I'm betting $499 or $529 now.
 
Well, they are bundling BF4 and probably 2-3 other games, so even if it is $600, it's still a great value.

But, it's not going to be $600, kyle already got that confirmed. So, I'm betting $499 or $529 now.



Stick a fork in Titan, it's finished.
 
Well, they are bundling BF4 and probably 2-3 other games, so even if it is $600, it's still a great value.

But, it's not going to be $600, kyle already got that confirmed. So, I'm betting $499 or $529 now.

There has been nothing from AMD to indicate BF4 is going in the Never Settle bundle. In fact, I'd say the fact that they are selling a BF4 edition 290X would suggest it isn't going in, at least not right away. Why make a special edition if all the cards get it - kind of defeats the point of "special"

And the $600 might have been low, not high. :mad:
 
There has been nothing from AMD to indicate BF4 is going in the Never Settle bundle. In fact, I'd say the fact that they are selling a BF4 edition 290X would suggest it isn't going in, at least not right away. Why make a special edition if all the cards get it - kind of defeats the point of "special"

And the $600 might have been low, not high. :mad:

I didn't say BF4 was going in the Never Settle with all their GPUs. we were specifically taking about the R9 290x, and you know that. You also know AMD mentioned they will be bundling it with the 290x. So again, even if it was $600, that includes BF4. I bet they'll price it less than $600 though.
 
I don't think that the 290x will be less than $599.I want to say it's $649-799. If they're confident about the price and performance, why not reveal at the event instead of waiting for next week? As a person that might be pre-ordering two next week. I would like to know the price/performance soon before I hop on to the Nvidia price drop wagon ;)
 
I didn't say BF4 was going in the Never Settle with all their GPUs. we were specifically taking about the R9 290x, and you know that. You also know AMD mentioned they will be bundling it with the 290x. So again, even if it was $600, that includes BF4. I bet they'll price it less than $600 though.

No, they did not say they were bundling it with the 290X. They said there was a Special Edition BF4 290X that would be available for pre-order and included BF4. Not the same at all.

Notice the "limited quantities".

q8IkL8Q.jpg
 
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Nvidia better start talking about something soon...anything...AMD is coming at them from all sides...usually Nvidia responds with a press release touting some new tech or upcoming card but they've been too silent...they need to respond with something BIG
 
Nvidia better start talking about something soon...anything...AMD is coming at them from all sides...usually Nvidia responds with a press release touting some new tech or upcoming card but they've been too silent...they need to respond with something BIG

I don't think they need to respond to a paper launch. Best to wait and see if AMD has anything, like last time. AMD released the 7970 and NVIDIA just released their mid range chip to match it.
 
I don't think they need to respond to a paper launch. Best to wait and see if AMD has anything, like last time. AMD released the 7970 and NVIDIA just released their mid range chip to match it.

it's not just the new cards...it's the new Mantle API, amazing Never Settle bundles, next-gen console domination etc...seems like AMD is going for the jugular
 
it's not just the new cards...it's the new Mantle API, amazing Never Settle bundles, next-gen console domination etc...seems like AMD is going for the jugular

They already had 2 of the 3 consoles and it did not help them. Mantle is a gimmick with little or no support and never settle is a desperate way to get people to buy cards when they are not selling well.

After reading about the Hawaii launch I don't think there is a parade to rain on.
 
Fanbois be fanbois...it doesn't matter what AMD does, nVidia bois will go green no matter what. "dat don flip my dick cus is be red."

I would personally love a couple of Titans..but for a EVGA SC Titan...1496$US in my country...bah fuck off
 
Well the AMD spokes person did say at the start of this year that they were going to bring back the GPU wars.

Looks the the fight has just begun...
 
But, it's not going to be $600, kyle already got that confirmed. So, I'm betting $499 or $529 now.

This is great news if true. $600 was the price I kept seeing on the rumor sites BTW. I wouldn't be shocked to see some super OC version of Hawaii sell for that price at launch though.
 
There has been nothing from AMD to indicate BF4 is going in the Never Settle bundle. In fact, I'd say the fact that they are selling a BF4 edition 290X would suggest it isn't going in, at least not right away. Why make a special edition if all the cards get it - kind of defeats the point of "special"

And the $600 might have been low, not high. :mad:

Early DL w/ Beta access.
Exclusive content and extras.
The list goes on and on.

If BF4 isn't added to the NS bundle I would be extremely surprised.
 
But, it's not going to be $600, kyle already got that confirmed. So, I'm betting $499 or $529 now.

wow if that's true it'll be a game-changer

when do review sites receive their cards and when does the official review embargo lift?
 
Physx? No one cares about that.
Never said PhysX, was more thinking CUVID when I said that.

AMD cards only support DXVA for hardware accelerated decoding, which is a locked-down pathway. Makes it extremely difficult to inject post-processing or soft-subs into the video stream. I have a lot of HTPC's and watch a lot of anime, so soft-sub support needs to be up to scratch. I pretty much can't use AMD cards in any of my HTPC's because the only thing they support is DXVA. I Have to use Intel integrated or, if I need horsepower in addition to media center duties, Nvidia cards... or I install a MUCH more powerful CPU and stick to software decoding, that makes AMD cards usable.

Nvidia CUVID decoding (and Intel QuickSync decoding) do not have this issue. DirectVOBSub works just as well as software decoding. No trouble with softsubs at all. Both Intel and Nvidia cards also support DXVA, so it's still an option as well.

If you mean "drivers lol" then AMD is on par with nV for single card drivers.
Can't really agree there, not when I've got:
- An HD 5850 that can't play hardware accelerated video without getting stuck at 2D clocks (wont clock up until DXVA is disengaged).
- An HD 6970 that still can't run Eyefinity properly (tearing issue STILL isn't fixed).
- That same HD 6970 is now driving a single-monitor system, and will randomly wrap the screen around for no apparent reason (requires a reboot to fix).
- Still can't seem to run Skyrim on that 6970 without horrible hitching, not an issue on the 5850 or Nvidia cards.

That damn tearing issue drove me up the wall, was one of the primary reasons I went to Nvidia Surround :(

He's saying $600, 40% cheaper than $1000.
The GTX 780 goes for between $650 and $680, not $1000...

Unless you're saying the 290x will be a compute-centric card (on par with a Titan), then it's much more apt to compare it against the GTX 780. If you're looking for a Titan killer, it'll likely be badged as a FirePro card, not a Radeon.
 
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wow one must be really mindless fanboi to wish amd to fail so their beloved company can rape them hahaha
 
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