Because there's probably no real way for them to quantify that its the faster GPU ever made, as opposed to fastest AMD has ever made, which is absolutely true.
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AMD GPU 14 Product Showcase Livestream
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Because there's probably no real way for them to quantify that its the faster GPU ever made, as opposed to fastest AMD has ever made, which is absolutely true.
This is not the Titan slayer.
ikarinokami
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exactly, no card was ever shut out. when glide first came out, it was all software and then 3dfx wrote a driver. then opengl came and MS freakout and created directx, which was sucky for awhile.
The whole O/S exclusive directx is becoming a bit tiresome though.
Unknown-One
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GLIDE only? Uh, no... most of those had software renders as well, allowing them to run on any machine (even those with no 3D accelerator at all, which wasn't uncommon at the time).
Lowest-common-denominator wins again.
and the software ver looked and ran like shit on most of them too at the time
There also was no other standard API at the time. It was GLIDE or nothing.
there where a few
Glide, rendition, ATi had one for get its name, NV had there own, S3 had one, PowerVR had there own...
There was GLIDE, a rarely used Rendition API, and S3 had METAL, but I don't recall there being a PowerVR or NV specific API for 3D acceleration. Either way, 90% of games supported multiple APIs. Unreal Tournament supported OpenGL, DirectX, GLIDE, and METAL plus a software renderer.
and you want to go back to that mess?
which btw most didnt look any better then software at the time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWzWdwj9NvU
you want to go back to THIS mess?
It's never going to go back to that because there are two GPU vendors now, not 6+.
3 actually. Intel sells more GPUs than AMD and NVIDIA combined.
Fair point, but they are a fraction of the gaming PC market. Their bulk sales are mostly slow integrated GPU sales.
bloodypulp
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first generation nVidia NV1 chip had the nVLib api (quadrilateral instead of triangle rendering)
Glide was basically openGL with the fat trimmed out for specific calls on their hardware and I don't blame them because openGL including DrectX sucked back then.
AMD is in a totally different position than 3dfx which deserved what they got btw...that's a hell of story within itself.
Anyway we will see how all this might pan out with BF4 as a guinea pig.
AMD is in a totally different position than 3dfx which deserved what they got btw...that's a hell of story within itself.
Anyway we will see how all this might pan out with BF4 as a guinea pig.
Kyle was.
Interesting, learned something new. So the NV1 did quadrilateral rendering? I recall the Sega Saturn did that.. wasn't aware there was ever a mainstream card that did that (PowerVR did tile-based rendering though).
I caught this recorded stream just now (long as hell) but it was not as bad as people were making it out to be.
The audio and mantle stuff were pretty interesting. I went to the astound surround site to test one of the audio samples with headphones and it sounds pretty damn good (sounds like binaural recordings)
http://www.genaudioinc.com/
my main question remains though, what are the prices?
If the only higher end cards that support all the newer tech are the 290/290x, what will they cost?
The audio and mantle stuff were pretty interesting. I went to the astound surround site to test one of the audio samples with headphones and it sounds pretty damn good (sounds like binaural recordings)
http://www.genaudioinc.com/
my main question remains though, what are the prices?
If the only higher end cards that support all the newer tech are the 290/290x, what will they cost?
$300 for 280X
$200 for 270X
No pricing on the 290X yet. I think that is what pissed everyone off. We wanted to know the price of the 290X and they just kept bringing more people on stage to talk about stuff completely unrelated to price and performance.
$200 for 270X
No pricing on the 290X yet. I think that is what pissed everyone off. We wanted to know the price of the 290X and they just kept bringing more people on stage to talk about stuff completely unrelated to price and performance.
I was shooting for a 300 dollar price point for my gpu replacement (6870) but if the pricing on the new gpus is as follows
290 ~399
290x ~ 499
then I would just go for the 290. Worried they are going to want 500 for that though.
I can feel the fear
You too would feel fear if you knew where your little dream scenario was really going.
Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. The whole point of a thin-to-the-metal API is that you remove abstraction! They can't really update the API without breaking all software using it!
Choices
a) Push out new incompatible versions of API each hardware generation. Essentially each game only works (on that path) on hardware from the generation when the game came out. Got a Pentium 2 running Windows 95 and a 3dfx card? Congratulations, you can play on the glide path!
b) Keep hardware generations closely on GCN. Basically set hardware progress back to keep existing software from breaking. Sounds great, right? Feeling the fear yet?
c) Update driver layer with translation between hardware. Sacrifice performance to keep existing software from breaking. We're now in "this seemed like a good idea, but now we have another giant driver to maintain and why did we do this, again?" territory.
d) Abandon Mantle after a few years. It was fun guys, we're moving on.
Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of you dimwit! You people think I'm some sort of nVidia fanboy that's afraid AMD will pull ahead? You couldn't possibly be more wrong if you set up a fucking commission to determine how wrong someone could be.
Yeah, that sounds like a fucking dystopian hell-hole to me.
Virtua Fighter was one of the few popular-ish games to have used it I think. Looked pretty good for the time but was out classed quickly.
Would Sony sue AMD? I guess they could try. Better hope they're in a good mood and/or that AMD have done their diligence and got this signed off on.
In december with BF4 and mantle, it will be.
That's the big question now. It looks like 290x ~ $600, so if the 290 come in $100 less there is a big hole in $300 - $500 range. If they have a rabbit, that would be a good one to pull out and price it at $400, GTX 770 becomes a "don't care" and AMD could own that space for a long time.
Gaming is not just visuals, its sound as much then add bottlenecks removal with mantle, if your a shareholder you should jump excitingly right now.
SolidSnakeUS
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When it comes to audio processing... would it replace my sound card or something?
SolidSnakeUS
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Okay, just... for some reason, I never fully understood audio from a GPU stand point. Whatever...
I come in here this morning to see if I can find a good synopsis of everything in the AMD showcase but all I get is page after page of shitting on everything AMD showed by a couple posters. Why don't you guys give it a fucking rest so I don't have to wade through all the negativity.
Synopsis:
1) new graphics cards.
The top two we don't know the price or how good they are.
We don't know much except what they look like on the outside.
2) they apparently have new sound capability. How that actually is implemented? Is it across the board? Will all developers use it? don't know.
3) AMD showed off some game footage and talked to the FrostBite guys until it was painful. They got to brag about their new game.
4) There's this new code called Mantle.....it looks like a code that will allow all console junk to be easily shoved down our throats with limited tweaks for the PC....or maybe it will be a good thing, who knows....the FrostBite guy liked it.
We don't know if mantle will be solely available on AMD, if it is.....there will be totally exclusive game property. You'll have to either just have a console or have two PCs, one AMD and one Nvidia.
5) 4K resolution is coming.
6) AMD bought some deal called RAPTR to have a service like the GeForce Experience thing or what Steam offers. It might be a good thing if it works like it's supposed to. What bugs me is it is an application that looks at what you own and how you play and "optimizes" the game for your stuff.....I bet it NEVER looks at what you play to target advertising or some such....
Oh yeah......you can pre-order a new 290 whatever they call it and Battlefield4 bundled starting October 3rd....price is a secret.
The end.
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1. dedicated DSP for audio 3D on the new 290 series and the R7 series.
allows sound to become truly immersive again with gaming.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2013/09/26/amd-announces-trueaudio-dsp-for-new-graphic/1
2. Mantle allowing GCN cards to benefit from a boost removing bottlenecks with cpu/gpu and games.
Potential? The 290 will run circles aorund Titan in BF4 with Mantle.
http://www.maximumpc.com/amd_r9_290x_will_be_much_faster_titan_battlefield_4
Its highly exciting to be a gamer now.
im worried will end up back in the same mess we where in in the 90s
with one good render path and the rest total shit
IF they even bother to put a DX path in the game
I'm not so certain about all the excitement.
I've heard this stuff a thousand times.
I'll curb my enthusiasm until I see some head to head gaming, the cost of this new card and how it stacks up to the GTX 780 and the Titan.
So far we've seen/heard nothing about the top end cards.....it's like some double top secret, which is bullshit in my opinion.
Either these new 290s are groundbreaking or they are total shit. If they are that good, I'm in for two.
Its hard to tell with this..
I think there are 2 possiblities.
Either
A) AMD is just doing this as a marketing gimmick, i don't think there is any real reason to do this knowing that proprietary APIs are usually dead in teh water. Even glide only lasted 2 generations before it was replaced as an exclusive API.
B) AMD is attempting to get this as part of the next DirectX or they feel DirectX is going in the wrong direction and just wants to make a point to the GPU community (Developers/Makers/Microsoft) that there is a real need for CPU+GPU optimization at the API level..
for some reason i tend to think the answer is B), if you look at the way AMD has moved in the last few years going to heavy threaded cpus and combining their GPU+CPU then it make sense that the old tried and true way of doing business with rendering and api's would have to change.. To me it seems mantle is really being targetted at the APUs in the fact that DirectX == GPU while everythign else == CPU and AMD is basically saying . Mantle == CPU+GPU under one umbrella API where optimization is done a the API level.