8-Year-Old Kills Caregiver After Playing Grand Theft Auto IV

mope54 said:
I don't know what that site is but they don't cite any references. Next time you want to post "facts" do so from a reputable source if you want your opinion to be taken seriously.

This is the data from the Australian Institute of Criminology:
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/facts/1-20/2012/1_recorded.html


the 12 month period directly after 1997 saw a 10% drop in homicides instead of a 3.2% increase as the blog you cited claims

since 1997 to 2011 there has been a 33% drop in homicides.

figure001.png

figure003.png
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LOL... thats a load of BS right there.
 
mope54...you know your figures are scewed by the disclaimer they put in: Although robbery may include an element of property crime, it is included as a violent crime, as the use or threat of violence is a more serious offence than the theft.

Typical political charts saying what the powers that be want you to believe.
 
MrGuvernment said:
People who go out and kill someone after playing a video game already had underlying mental issues, the game was simply a trigger, if it wasnt the game it would of been the 6 o'clock news after watching all the depressing crap, murders, war things on there that sets them off, or some rated R movie the kid should not of been watching.

Chalk up another one to bad parenting!
Click to expand...

Agreed
 
BBA said:
Hey mope54, Just in case you want to put out another gun grabber strawman response, here are a few more links you can try to shoot down (pun intended):
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/01/hey-australia-hows-that-gun-ban-working.html
http://www.military.com/video/guns/small-arms/australias-gun-ban-not-working-so-well/1775480805001/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323777204578195470446855466.html
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/?Article_ID=17847
http://www.infowars.com/cold-hard-f...-liberty-can-be-measured-in-the-loss-of-life/

So, while you might point to suicides...you might want to consider killing off any other argument.
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read the actual data instead of anonymous bloggers' opinions about the data. the main red flag should be that everyone you cite pulls various numbers out of their butts to support their claims

economicpolicy simply quotes a locally Sydney newspaper reporting on three men being shot and police lamenting about street violence

your military.com forum post claims:
"The assault rate has increased 800% since 1991, and increased 200% since the 1997 gun ban."
this is false based on the official crime statistics I posted

the wsj journal article that came up in your google search (but apparently failed to read) actually supports what I wrote:
"In 2008, the Australian Institute of Criminology reported a decrease of 9% in homicides and a one-third decrease in armed robbery since the 1990s"
(might not want to include that source next time you try and debate this topic)

the ncpa article focuses on one year (2006) to argue a trend that gun control didn't reduce violence and then gets the facts wrong "In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent."
(reference the data I provided for the actual assault and robbery statistics for 2006)
furthermore, the article claims it's reporting on a "finding" from Australia's Bureau of Criminology but cites as a reference FreeRepublic instead of ABiC.

infowars claims:
Armed Robberies are UP 69%
Assaults Involving Guns are UP 28%
Gun Murders are UP 19%

but the numbers are different from the other blogs you cited and different from the official data I cited

so those are your (unreliable) sources and their incorrect claims. I didn't need to resort to any arguments about gun control or suicides but rather simply compared their claims against the actual official statistical data.
 
It's mostly a control thing with gun people and a denial thing with people who play video games.

Gun ownership proponents lash out in a verbally aggressive manner at anything that points out that people are generally too stupid and irresponsible to own guns because they fear a loss of the false sense of empowerment and control that having the potential to kill someone without dirtying their hands grants them. Men mostly have that problem because they're fundamentally controlling and power seeking so they can posture themselves ahead of the competition they face for breeding rights.

People who play video games just blanket deny that games can possibly influence the mental state of a person. They cite themselves or any other number of personal experiences while ignoring or attempting to discredit the many, many studies that make it blatantly obvious that violent games make violent people. They'll also try to distract others by pointing at a television and saying, "Look over there! That's worse so ignore my games and pay attention to the older evil thing. You don't have to worry about games because TV has been around longer," as a way to avoid the issue.
 
BBA said:
mope54...you know your figures are scewed by the disclaimer they put in: Although robbery may include an element of property crime, it is included as a violent crime, as the use or threat of violence is a more serious offence than the theft.

Typical political charts saying what the powers that be want you to believe.
Click to expand...
that's not a disclaimer. wow, you really engage in selective reading to keep your point of view intact!

here's the actual statement:
"c: Comprises the offences of armed and unarmed robbery. Robbery is classified as a violent crime as the use or threat of violence is more serious than a property offense"

that means that the robbery statistics include violent and non-violent robbery because *all* robbery is violent even if it's simply taking something from someone without using a weapon

that actually means that even when the "robbery" statistic goes up in a given year the actual incidents of violence could be going down since that data does not disaggregate between violent and non-violent robbery. interesting that it seems to be the main statistic many of your cited blogs relied on to make their points that Australia has become overall more violent...the data directly contradicts those claims at every point.

incidentally, robbery is an index crime in the US. Part of the UCR that we use for determining levels of violence in the States.
 
BBA said:
LOL... thats a load of BS right there.
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no, the things you have been posting in this thread are a load of bullshit

BBA said:
Did what? Have you checked the crime and murder rates in Australia since the gun ban? I would not want to live there, its more dangerous now than downtown Chicago at night.
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http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/12217-chicago’s-murders-for-2012-likely-to-exceed-2011

Read the article. Check the links to the statistical data. Every year Chicago *alone* had nearly twice the murders as *all* of Australia had for the same year.

Every *month* Chicago averages about 50 murders. Australia, the entire country, averaged less than 400 *total* murders for the past decade and less than 300 *total* murders for the past five years.

If you think that it's more dangerous to live in Australia than any given Chicago night you have your head up your ass.
 
Come on man, it's a government policy in Australia, of course they are going to manipulate the numbers to make it seem like it works. Just read the non-government data for once.

In fact, read about the crime stats even in the US, by Harvard and even the CDC
 
mope54 said:
no, the things you have been posting in this thread are a load of bullshit



http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/12217-chicago’s-murders-for-2012-likely-to-exceed-2011

Read the article. Check the links to the statistical data. Every year Chicago *alone* had nearly twice the murders as *all* of Australia had for the same year.

Every *month* Chicago averages about 50 murders. Australia, the entire country, averaged less than 400 *total* murders for the past decade and less than 300 *total* murders for the past five years.

If you think that it's more dangerous to live in Australia than any given Chicago night you have your head up your ass.
Click to expand...


Chicago also has a gun ban. It has only become more dangerous since that ban was put in place.
 
you can't ban guns in a citty that is surrounded by cities and states without bans and expect it to have an impact.
 
BBA said:
Come on man, it's a government policy in Australia, of course they are going to manipulate the numbers to make it seem like it works. Just read the non-government data for once.

In fact, read about the crime stats even in the US, by Harvard and even the CDC
Click to expand...

I have australian friends, and every one of them says it's gotten better there since the ban, most of them wish they could go out and buy a gun, but that the trade off is likely worth it.
 
stealthy123 said:
you can't ban guns in a citty that is surrounded by cities and states without bans and expect it to have an impact.
Click to expand...

It did have an impact. There are more violent crimes and more gun related violent crimes. Chicago is out of control dangerous, more dangerous than Fallujah.
 
Guys... this is way off topic to the intent. These parents were letting an 8 year old play GTA. I don't care how old the game is that is not right.

Second the kid had ready access to an actual LOADED firearm.

Sigh...

If it were not for the kid I would say these parents need a legal reprimand.
 
Grimlaking said:
Guys... this is way off topic to the intent. These parents were letting an 8 year old play GTA. I don't care how old the game is that is not right.

Second the kid had ready access to an actual LOADED firearm.

Sigh...

If it were not for the kid I would say these parents need a legal reprimand.
Click to expand...

The parents were not mentioned at all in the story. The kid had an 87+ year old caretaker who was obviously unfit to give proper care.
 
BBA said:
Come on man, it's a government policy in Australia, of course they are going to manipulate the numbers to make it seem like it works. Just read the non-government data for once.

In fact, read about the crime stats even in the US, by Harvard and even the CDC
Click to expand...
The CDC is a government agency :confused:

the bizpacreview incorrectly cites a "harvard study" that isn't a harvard study at all. It's an academic paper pubished in the hardvard law journal written by a Don Yates from the Pacific Research Institution and Gary Mauser from Simon Fraser University in BC (earned his phd in psychology from the same university I earned my phd in criminology)

you really need to learn how to check your sources. this is like the seventh source you've cited without even bothering to verify if the claims in the blog match the evidence they cite. why do you trust sources of information that are either wrong or misrepresent the data they're basing their claims from?
 
you can't ban guns in a citty that is surrounded by cities and states without bans and expect it to have an impact.
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Exactly, because then what you have done is taken all the legally owned guns away from people so they have no way to defend themselves against all the criminals right?

And they went right on and did it anyway.
 
stealthy123 said:
People like to accept "evidence" that reinforces their own views.

Human nature.
Click to expand...
That part isn't surprising.

The part that surprises me is when he consistently cites sources that undermine his own argument.

So far, he's cited a bunch of blogs that are making numbers up or miscalculating somehow. Then he says he doesn't want to talk about suicide data or use official government data, but then cites CDC findings and a paper that is largely about suicide rates in countries with a lot of guns (and the some weird riff on colonial America gun violence and soviet Russia era homicide rates).

And then kind of makes some weird argument I can't understand about how the Australian official data is an attempt by the government to make them look better by including non-weapon robberies in the "Robbery" category, which I already explained to him would *increase* the robbery statistic.

He's unfortunately spewing misinformation without even attempting to assess what is coming up in his google searches. It's really tragic when people form their opinions like that.
 
stealthy123 said:
you can't ban guns in a citty that is surrounded by cities and states without bans and expect it to have an impact.
Click to expand...

Sort of begs the question then. Why don't those cities and states have the same out-of-control gun violence problem?
 
zero1945 said:
Sort of begs the question then. Why don't those cities and states have the same out-of-control gun violence problem?
Click to expand...
they do

have you not heard about any violent crime problems in detroit? I discussed it a few pages back in this topic. I also explained how we need to look at specific locations rather than national or state averages. in fact, we can really dig into specific zip codes and even with those ZIPs we find hot spots on specific corners. There are probably some LEO members here who can vouch for the use of GIS data guiding their patrols.

re: mauser I was wondering why I hadn't read any of his work previously. I finally found this article:
http://open.salon.com/blog/kanuk/2011/05/30/when_peons_are_easily_manipulated_by_bogus_experts
 
because all the criminals took advantage of the laws and geography and set up base in chicago.

Look it, if all guns were insta banned in the States, gun crime would go down.

The argument that criminals would get guns anyways doesn't hold water in the context of a gun free society. They wouldn't be able to get them. The reason it's so easy for a criminal to get a gun is because it's so easy for a non criminal to get a gun, it's just easy to get a gun in the US.

Selectively banning guns in certain areas will never curb gun crime so long as they can drive 30 minutes and buy one. It's an all or nothing type of thing, and there is certainly never going to be a ban on guns in the US in any of our lifetimes.
 
mope54 said:
they do

have you not heard about any violent crime problems in detroit? I discussed it a few pages back in this topic. I also explained how we need to look at specific locations rather than national or state averages. in fact, we can really dig into specific zip codes and even with those ZIPs we find hot spots on specific corners. There are probably some LEO members here who can vouch for the use of GIS data guiding their patrols.

re: mauser I was wondering why I hadn't read any of his work previously. I finally found this article:
http://open.salon.com/blog/kanuk/2011/05/30/when_peons_are_easily_manipulated_by_bogus_experts
Click to expand...

Absurd. Every American city and state doesn't have the gun violence problem Chicago has. I don't dodge bullets everyday and I'm sure few on this forum do either. Even the shittiest areas of NJ don't have 5-10 murders every weekend.
 
stealthy123 said:
because all the criminals took advantage of the laws and geography and set up base in chicago.
Click to expand...

They took advantage of the city with some of the harshest laws in country?

Makes a ton of sense.

They must also like the weather in Chicago.
 
stealthy123 said:
It's clear you intend to troll and not to debate.

get a life.
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I guess I don't quite understand what there is to debate. Why would a criminal choose to setup shop in the city with the harshest gun laws in the country? That makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever.

I realize internet "debate" is a complete waste of time but this really takes the cake.
 
Why does Chicago specifically have this problem? Why doesn't my town have multiple young children shot to death every weekend?

Why doesn't every other town have this problem?
 
zero1945 said:
Absurd. Every American city and state doesn't have the gun violence problem Chicago has. I don't dodge bullets everyday and I'm sure few on this forum do either. Even the shittiest areas of NJ don't have 5-10 murders every weekend.
Click to expand...
The Monday after Trenton experienced four homicides in a single weekend, acting Attorney General John Hoffman had a 6:30 a.m. phone conversation with State Police Superintendent Col. Rick Fuentes.

The killings had included a double murder on East State Street that left 52-year-old Barry Church dead after he was caught in the crossfire, a 20-year-old shot in the head and a fatal stabbing.

Gun violence in the capital city had become a virtual daily occurrence.
Click to expand...
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/...surging_violent_and_gun_crime_in_trenton.html

zero1945 said:
Why does Chicago specifically have this problem? Why doesn't my town have multiple young children shot to death every weekend?

Why doesn't every other town have this problem?
Click to expand...
It looks like your city is not as immune from gun violence as you think it is.

Now, you may live in a fairly affluent city where gun violence is not prevalent. I explained the reasons for this in my earlier posts. I explained why we have high murder rates in Santa Ana but none across the freeway in Irvine, for example.
 
stealthy123 said:
because all the criminals took advantage of the laws and geography and set up base in chicago.

Look it, if all guns were insta banned in the States, gun crime would go down.

The argument that criminals would get guns anyways doesn't hold water in the context of a gun free society. They wouldn't be able to get them. The reason it's so easy for a criminal to get a gun is because it's so easy for a non criminal to get a gun, it's just easy to get a gun in the US.

Selectively banning guns in certain areas will never curb gun crime so long as they can drive 30 minutes and buy one. It's an all or nothing type of thing, and there is certainly never going to be a ban on guns in the US in any of our lifetimes.
Click to expand...

Criminals wouldn't be able to get guns if guns weren't legal? No statistic ever generated would even remotely agree with you on that.
 
*part of the city

I don't know how far away you live from Trenton, NJ.
You can tell us if you'd like to share that information.
 
zero1945 said:
Sort of begs the question then. Why don't those cities and states have the same out-of-control gun violence problem?
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Or why does a major city like Sugar Land with one of the highest rates of CHL ownership in the entire country not only have one of the lowest homicide rates in the country but was even rated in Forbes 10 best places to live a couple years back?

Answer is simple, violent criminals are violent criminals, and availability of a firearm to a non-violent law abiding citizen does not induce them to take on a life of crime its just used for self-defense.

I have a CHL for example, and in fact own many guns, that isn't going to cause me to suddenly rob a 7-11 or mug and shoot someone.

However, I think we can all agree that we don't want criminals to have firearms, I just disagree that you can uninvent a technology. Instead, I wish we would focus on crimes such as increasing the punishment for illegal firearm carrying, illegal firearm purchases and distribution, and violent crimes committed with a firearm. If you get life for robbing a 7-11 with a gun or a couple decades for being busted with a concealed handgun with the serial number scratched off, its suddenly not so appealing to go in there with a firearm for a crook.

Unfortunately, its usually the democrats fighting the latter, citing that "we need to help integrate these hoodlums" and usually in some roundabout way blaming "the man" for their life of crime... ;)
 
Ducman69 said:
Or why does a major city like Sugar Land with one of the highest rates of CHL ownership in the entire country not only have one of the lowest homicide rates in the country but was even rated in Forbes 10 best places to live a couple years back?
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Are you referring to Sugar Land, Texas (population <80,000 and 25 square miles) as a "major city?"

We have universities with larger populations than your "city" and my grandparents own a larger sized property in Oregon.
 
zero1945 said:
I guess I don't quite understand what there is to debate. Why would a criminal choose to setup shop in the city with the harshest gun laws in the country? That makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever.
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I don't know what there is to debate, either. I wasn't engaging with this topic as a "debate." I am merely setting the facts straight and hopefully reasonable people will draw their own conclusions from the data.

For example, you said that even the worst parts of NJ doesn't have 5-10 murders on a weekend. However, I found a recent news article stating that it does and, worse, violent crime is on the rise in NJ.

Incidentally, Chicago does not have the harshest gun laws in the country. On a list of 10, it ranks #9. California ranks #1 and New Jersey ranks #2. Go figure, huh?
http://www.deseretnews.com/top/1428/9/New-Jersey-10-states-with-the-strictest-gun-laws.html

I also looked into Ducman's position. Turns out that Sugar Land, TX is indeed the 20th safest city in the US. Unfortunately for him, the last two years Sugar Land has seen an 8.1% increase in homicide and an overall increase in gun violence along with home invasions.

When asked, the police chief pointed out that it doesn't take away from their safety record since 2008. Which is true, but interestingly enough, he didn't say anything about gun ownership. Instead, he explicitly stated that their historical low crime was directly attributed to strategic partnerships with the two closest municipalities. So that tends to support stealthy's position.
 
The argument that criminals would get guns anyways doesn't hold water in the context of a gun free society. They wouldn't be able to get them.
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Oh no, i am not letting this moronic statement go.

France, 1940's, think the Nazi's weren't into gun control? The resistance had all they needed.
Mexico today, what are Mexico's gun laws? Think the drug cartels aren't armed?
Shit all you have to do is think and you will see this is a preposterous claim.
I have lived in South Korea for a total of 6 years time and I know they have some of the most serious gun control in the world but you would be a fool to think that there are no guns hidden in that country.
BTW, just out of the few examples I have given does anyone think those countrys were shining examples of freedom?


When you start thinking that giving up your guns is going to be a good deal you are screwed.

Here is a thought, contrary to many people's beliefs, usually the younger ones. People had guns all over in this country. It was more common for a household to have a gun then not. My father had 13 brothers and sisters and I can't think of many of those families that didn't have guns cause they all went hunting every year in the old days. They were all from Minnesota, Dad moved to Texas married my Mom, I grew up outside of town near Lubbock. I used to get off school and after my homework was done I would sling a .22 rifle on my shoulder and jump on my dirt bike and go shoot rabbits, the farmers loved me. Guns were just a part of living. All those years ago and all those families with guns in the home and things were never as dangerous as they have gotten today.

So something is different, something is worse, but it's not the guns and the gun control. It's people wasting there time thinking gun control is the problem when the problem is just that people are assholes these days. No respect for each other, no morality, no self control, no decency, and no one willing to take responsibility for themselves. Everything is someone else's fault.

This old women was old. Some of you say she was an unfit caregiver I say she was just too old to have to be a caregiver. She probably couldn't remember where the gun was to begin with and the kid just found it while he was bored and curious digging around the house. That's how I found my Grandma's little shooter, but I knew better then to touch it cause I would'a got my ass beat and I knew it.

I am sorry for the rank but some of you guys need a figurative slap to wake you up.

Two of you arguing over stats and blogs and news articles, shit ... No one tells you the truth anymore. The news is bought and payed for, the governments are corrupt and their stats are slanted to make them look good and keep them in the big seat.

Jesus, if you want to really learn what is going on you need to start by talking with some old folks, they really do know better then we do. Use them to get your bearings. Adjust your point of view because the world you think your living in is a lie. Once you find that new point of view then take a fresh look and see what you see.
 
I also looked into Ducman's position. Turns out that Sugar Land, TX is indeed the 20th safest city in the US. Unfortunately for him, the last two years Sugar Land has seen an 8.1% increase in homicide and an overall increase in gun violence along with home invasions.
Click to expand...

Of course, as was mentioned, in a town so small, with such a low volume of crime, it doesn't take much to swing the figures. One nut job can go on a spree and shoot five people dead and that can set the world on it's ear.

Just saying.
 
lcpiper said:
Oh no, i am not letting this moronic statement go.

France, 1940's, think the Nazi's weren't into gun control? The resistance had all they needed.
Mexico today, what are Mexico's gun laws? Think the drug cartels aren't armed?
Shit all you have to do is think and you will see this is a preposterous claim.
I have lived in South Korea for a total of 6 years time and I know they have some of the most serious gun control in the world but you would be a fool to think that there are no guns hidden in that country.
BTW, just out of the few examples I have given does anyone think those countrys were shining examples of freedom?


When you start thinking that giving up your guns is going to be a good deal you are screwed.

Here is a thought, contrary to many people's beliefs, usually the younger ones. People had guns all over in this country. It was more common for a household to have a gun then not. My father had 13 brothers and sisters and I can't think of many of those families that didn't have guns cause they all went hunting every year in the old days. They were all from Minnesota, Dad moved to Texas married my Mom, I grew up outside of town near Lubbock. I used to get off school and after my homework was done I would sling a .22 rifle on my shoulder and jump on my dirt bike and go shoot rabbits, the farmers loved me. Guns were just a part of living. All those years ago and all those families with guns in the home and things were never as dangerous as they have gotten today.

So something is different, something is worse, but it's not the guns and the gun control. It's people wasting there time thinking gun control is the problem when the problem is just that people are assholes these days. No respect for each other, no morality, no self control, no decency, and no one willing to take responsibility for themselves. Everything is someone else's fault.

This old women was old. Some of you say she was an unfit caregiver I say she was just too old to have to be a caregiver. She probably couldn't remember where the gun was to begin with and the kid just found it while he was bored and curious digging around the house. That's how I found my Grandma's little shooter, but I knew better then to touch it cause I would'a got my ass beat and I knew it.

I am sorry for the rank but some of you guys need a figurative slap to wake you up.

Two of you arguing over stats and blogs and news articles, shit ... No one tells you the truth anymore. The news is bought and payed for, the governments are corrupt and their stats are slanted to make them look good and keep them in the big seat.

Jesus, if you want to really learn what is going on you need to start by talking with some old folks, they really do know better then we do. Use them to get your bearings. Adjust your point of view because the world you think your living in is a lie. Once you find that new point of view then take a fresh look and see what you see.
Click to expand...

a gun free society is gun free, I further explained that it will never happen and is basically a pipe dream, and you picked one line out of a post to go on a rant about.
 
mope54 said:
Are you referring to Sugar Land, Texas (population <80,000 and 25 square miles) as a "major city?"

We have universities with larger populations than your "city" and my grandparents own a larger sized property in Oregon.
Click to expand...
Shit, no I specifically meant to write "minor" (used to live there). Sorry no edit option.
 
Stealthy, you are correct. I apologize, those words jumped off the page and lit my fuse :eek:
 
Things have gotten to a sorry state you know. My dad has a problem at his house which is just at the outside edge of Lubbock, TX. these days, the city just keeps growing out his way. It seems that he can no longer shoot and kill nuisance animals and such like in the old days without a neighbor turning him in. You just have to put up with them and the damage they do.
 
mope54 said:
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/...surging_violent_and_gun_crime_in_trenton.html

It looks like your city is not as immune from gun violence as you think it is.

Now, you may live in a fairly affluent city where gun violence is not prevalent. I explained the reasons for this in my earlier posts. I explained why we have high murder rates in Santa Ana but none across the freeway in Irvine, for example.
Click to expand...

Trenton is a sewer like parts of Chicago. The article said 4 homicides, not five to 10. Also, Chicago is not a state.
 
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