Just wondering if there was anything I might need to know when I transition my system to use a 250GB Samsung Evo as the Main OS drive. Anything special about SSD's to ensure they last? Things that might be common sense for someone who's used them for a few years now that I might not consider?
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Suggest things a person going from HDD to SSD for the first time needs to know...
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Phuncz
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1. don't baby the drive, they aren't as fragile as many make you think they are. Most 250GB drives can write 10GB a day and outlast you in endurance.
2. just don't completely fill the drive.
3. Use a small overprovisioning (~5-10%), which basically means the first time you install something on it (like Windows), make a partition that 90-95% of the total available space and leave that extra space unpartitioned. This allows for any issues with a full drive to be much less of a problem. In the end you can always reclaim that extra space (Disk Management --> Extend Volume) but you can not just shrink it later because that memory will still be "filled".
4. don't (seriously) install it on a non-native SATA port. So no Asmedia or Marvell SATA motherboard plugs. They have a much higher latency (thé advantage of an SSD) and their speed is below spec (not SATA 6Gbps). They also tend to cause issues like power issues and crashes. Avoid with an SSD, even if your motherboard's native ports are only SATA-3Gbps.
The only real problem with SSD's these days are that filling them entirely (above 90%) lowers their performance. But if you use a considerable amount of overprovisioning (10% or more), you can basically negate the issue.
2. just don't completely fill the drive.
3. Use a small overprovisioning (~5-10%), which basically means the first time you install something on it (like Windows), make a partition that 90-95% of the total available space and leave that extra space unpartitioned. This allows for any issues with a full drive to be much less of a problem. In the end you can always reclaim that extra space (Disk Management --> Extend Volume) but you can not just shrink it later because that memory will still be "filled".
4. don't (seriously) install it on a non-native SATA port. So no Asmedia or Marvell SATA motherboard plugs. They have a much higher latency (thé advantage of an SSD) and their speed is below spec (not SATA 6Gbps). They also tend to cause issues like power issues and crashes. Avoid with an SSD, even if your motherboard's native ports are only SATA-3Gbps.
The only real problem with SSD's these days are that filling them entirely (above 90%) lowers their performance. But if you use a considerable amount of overprovisioning (10% or more), you can basically negate the issue.
cortexodus
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I tend to set pagefile size to 512-4096 and I've never seen it rise over 524MB on a machine with 8GB of RAM.
Yeah same here.
Gillbot
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disable disk defrag
Curious142
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So, which SATA port should we plug an ssd into?
Phuncz
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Windows 7 and Windows 8.x, which are the recommended Windows OS'es when using an SSD (especially 8.x), detect when an SSD is present and will turn off Disk Defrag for those.
If it is active somehow, it will only marginally affect the drive, it won't suddenly last a few years unless you are trying very hard to break it by abusing the drive.
#1? Haha, doesn't really matter unless you're anal about such things, or if BIOS has a goofy boot order. Just make sure it's a 6Gb/s port, if your motherboard has them.
Phuncz
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Another thing to disable in Windows on the SSD.. and all drives for that matter is indexing.
No need for it on an SSD, and for all drives, Windows has a bad habbit of corrupting the idex anyway which can lead to all sorts of weird issues.
As for those who say to not defrag an SSD, I beg to differ. Sequential read/write speed is still faster than random read/write speed on an SSD. The other issue with not defragging is that once the drive becomes really fragmented, Windows can start to freak out and have issues just like on a regular drive.
I really don't like that Windows 8 will not allow you to defrag an SSD. You have to use 3rd party utility to defrag.
No need for it on an SSD, and for all drives, Windows has a bad habbit of corrupting the idex anyway which can lead to all sorts of weird issues.
As for those who say to not defrag an SSD, I beg to differ. Sequential read/write speed is still faster than random read/write speed on an SSD. The other issue with not defragging is that once the drive becomes really fragmented, Windows can start to freak out and have issues just like on a regular drive.
I really don't like that Windows 8 will not allow you to defrag an SSD. You have to use 3rd party utility to defrag.
Phuncz
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I don't agree on this, indexed search is still much faster than non-indexed search, even on an SSD. It is also something you'll barely notice running so I don't see the point in turning it off.
Windows can't freak out because of a fragmented drive, it can only freak out if it can't write anything or it gets I/O errors, like many OS'es. Many SSD's already have a built-in "defrag" running in the background to minimize Write Amplification.
Curious142
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Are you saying that I might be trolling when I ask for a little help and advice? Give me a break! I would ask how I can tell which of my moboard's SATA ports are native, but then I might be trolling (again). But then, I'm just trying to get a clue.
Old Hippie
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There's a reason for that....
You are the first person I've read that recommends defragging an SSD.
Phuncz
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I responded to Phog, if you read more carefully. And since I already replied multiple times in your topic, including the first reply, I don't know why I would call you a troll when it clearly doesn't apply to you.
Curious142
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Thanks for the replies. I guess I'm just being paranoid. Sorry 'bout that. How do I tell which of my moboard's SATA ports are native? And does it make any difference? My Samsung 500GB 840 EVO was delivered a little while ago and I'd like to install and set it up correctly.
bigdogchris
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- Enable AHCI mode in the BIOS
- Plug SSD into native port for optimal performance (not Marvell or JMicron)
- Install Windows
- Update Chipset and storage controller drivers
- Re-run WEI
- If you have 7 or newer, Superfetch and Defrag is disabled automatically after you run WEI
- If you have Vista, disable Defrag and Superfetch manually.
- Disabling Indexing is not recommended. Even with an SSD you benefit from indexing.
- Set Pagefile Min=(500MB) - Max=(Total Installed Memory). Page file will start at 500MB every boot and grow if needed. This saves space on the SSD.
- Disable Hibernation if you don't want it. Type in powercfg -h off at an elevated cmd prompt. This will save space on the SSD.
For the guy who said it's OK to defrag your SSD, that's bad advice. SSD's have a feature called wear leveling which automatically reorganizes data so that each cell is written to equally. When you defrag your SSD, your moving files around, only to have them moved again by the SSD's firmware, thus re-fragmenting the data. You're never going to win the battle unless you disable wear leveling, which if you could would be a horrible idea.
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Phuncz
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If you tell us which motherboard you have, I can look it up for you.
3rd time I'm posting this in this topic:
Curious142
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Asus P8Z77-V LX. Thanks again for your replies.
Phuncz
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Use the white ports on the bottom right, they are native SATA-6Gbps ports. Your motherboard doesn't have any 3rd-party-supplied ports so you're good to go with either but you will have higher continuous throughput speeds with the (native) SATA-6Gbps ports.
Because the index gets corrupted. It is a stupidly buggy feature. I have had multiple machines have issues after a while that magically started working properly as soon as I disabled indexing.
I used to disable it.. let it do it's thing, and then re-enable it. I git tired of having to do this all the time so I just turn it off and leave it off now.
Well, it does. I have seen multiple programs crash, including Office 2010 because the SSD was so fragmented.
I've got around 60 or so computers I take care of where I work. Almost all of them have SSDs. They show the same exact kind of issues that computers with HDDs have when the drive gets too fragmented.
Most people don't maintain dozens of computers that have SSDs in them.
Phuncz
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I tried to post something that wasn't a hurtful reply in any way but I can't succeed. Sorry cyclone3d, but you are going straight to my ignore list. Defragmenting SSD's to solve Office issues, OMFG...
Curious142
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Use the white ports on the bottom right, they are native SATA-6Gbps ports. Your motherboard doesn't have any 3rd-party-supplied ports so you're good to go with either but you will have higher continuous throughput speeds with the (native) SATA-6Gbps ports.
Thanks. You've been a lot of help. Now to read the documentation that came with the drive.
I know right?
Really??? Office is what gets used most by my users, so it shows up problems a lot more than anything else.
I'm just letting you know what I have seen happen time and time again.
From what I can tell, it has to do with the FAT getting fragmented and Windows seems to have issues with that pretty consistently. It pretty much always has. NTFS isn't as bad as FAT32 was, but it still has issues.
It isn't just Office that Windows has issues with when the drive is really fragmented. Other stuff like IE, Adobe Reader and Acrobat, as well as other applications used in the office.
Solidworks is another that really has issues when the drive becomes too fragmented.
Does everybody else just re-image their office machines once they start having issues? I sure hope not.
Whatever.
bigdogchris
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Defraggler reports my SSD is 22% fragmented. Office 2010 is working just fine for me.
One thing that seems to be missed by almost everyone: DISABLE HYBRID SLEEP
Whether you leave hibernation enabled or not is only about consuming space on the SSD and is personal preference based in whether you use the feature or not. Hybrid sleep (which I believe s the win7 default) writes the hibernation file every time sleep (I.e. suspend to RAM) is used "just in case" the power fails. THIS will create a significant volume of large, useless writes and wear, especially if you use sleep a lot.
Whether you leave hibernation enabled or not is only about consuming space on the SSD and is personal preference based in whether you use the feature or not. Hybrid sleep (which I believe s the win7 default) writes the hibernation file every time sleep (I.e. suspend to RAM) is used "just in case" the power fails. THIS will create a significant volume of large, useless writes and wear, especially if you use sleep a lot.
Old Hippie
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'Tis true but many of us have been using them since the release of consumer models and have years of experience.
I have always disabled indexing and used to use Diskeeper w/Hyperfast just to see how much difference it made.....and I couldn't perceive any.
There's no doubt you're seeing a problem and I don't know specific procedure you're using to fix it, but the quote in my last post should show how ineffective it is to defrag.
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With no disrespect intended, that is completely and utterly incorrect. Look elsewhere for your problems (such as a bad image or unstable drivers) rolled out to your computers if you are seeing it across all your systems.
As long as it doesn't error out and fail, it doesn't matter if you are 99% fragmented across your filesystem. It may take longer (with HDD's it can be noticeable, with SSDs it will likely not be noticeable) but programs don't crash because of fragmentation (Specifically I am talking here about disk fragmentation, not something like heap fragmentation or garbage collection in memory). They may kick up an error if some internal function (that it traps for specifically) doesn't return within a predetermined time but it is not going to crash.
GotNoRice
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Why are you using FAT32 in 2013?
Do you really defrag your SSD to "fix" office problems or was this just a bad joke that went over my head? To defrag a SSD is such horrible horrible advice that it's hard for me to imagine you are being serious.
Data on non sequential LBAs takes longer to access than data on sequential LBAs because of overhead (regardless of the physical layout of the data), so cyclone3d has a point, but a weak one. Fragmentation would only cause a real world (i.e. not benchmarks) performance issue if a file being read were pathologically fragmented and most modern filesystems prevent this. Defragging an SSD is really unnecessary.
To disable hibernation in Win7:
1. Open the Start Menu, in the search line, type CMD
2. Right click CMD icon that comes up and choose "Run as administrator"
3. Type powercfg -h off and press enter to delete it
When I did this in Win7 64-bit on my boot SSD, "Allow Hybrid Sleep" does not show up as an option in Control Panel->Power Options->Change Plan Settings->Advanced Power Settings->Sleep.