Microsoft Marks Down Surface Pro Tablet by $100

rudy said:
But apple can do almost double the battery life with a smaller battery.
Click to expand...

The Ivy Bridge MacBook Air 11 didn't get double the battery life of the Surface Pro. Plus the Pro is running an 1080P screen.
 
The older MacBook air still usually beat the surface pro with a smaller battery, also lets talk about this haswell failure too. MS knew very well that haswell was coming so when did MS think would be a good time to release a refresh with haswell, HMMMM maybe RIGHT NOW about the time when everyone buys computers for college, Its not like haswell is unheard of anyone who bothered to get ready was able to release them already including apple.
 
heatlesssun said:
I've said it a lot, but the success of Windows 8.x+ tablets is going to hinge on Bay Trail and the progression of the Atom. If that platform can deliver the performance and a bit better battery life like Intel is promising, then given good hardware are good prices Windows 8 can do well on tablets.
Click to expand...

If x86 based Win8 tablets had 24hr battery life and a 50% price reduction there's still a massive perception problem. Theres a disconnect, better battery life isn't going stop people from walking by metro screens at best buy, staples, Fry's, costco without as much as a second glance.

And based on the benches and tests I've seen Haswell is not the miracle cure some pipedreamers seem to believe. Its an incremental step forward.

The other problem for MS is the more efficient Intel's mobile-focused offerings get in the next couple iterations, the more nails in RT's coffin. MS has put themselves in a hell of a spot.
 
rudy said:
The older MacBook air still usually beat the surface pro with a smaller battery, also lets talk about this haswell failure too. MS knew very well that haswell was coming so when did MS think would be a good time to release a refresh with haswell, HMMMM maybe RIGHT NOW about the time when everyone buys computers for college, Its not like haswell is unheard of anyone who bothered to get ready was able to release them already including apple.
Click to expand...

The battery life numbers of the Surface Pro and MBA 11 2012 were generally close from what I've seen. Again the Surface Pro is running a 1080P screen, touch and pen digitizers as well. As for the Haswell "failure" there are a lot of variants of the Haswell. There's an SoC variant of it that's 10W and I don't think it's even been released yet. We don't even know if Microsoft was planning to release a Haswell Surface Pro, they may have a Bay Trail model. At any rate, there's going to be something and it looks like they're keeping a really tight lid on it and it's probably going to come out with the availability of 8.1 on retail machines.
 
DPI said:
If x86 based Win8 tablets had 24hr battery life and a 50% price reduction there's still a massive perception problem. Theres a disconnect, better battery life isn't going stop people from walking by metro screens at best buy, staples, Fry's, costco without as much as a second glance.
Click to expand...

24 hour battery life in a 2 lbs. x86 device would be revolutionary. Hype like this is meaningless.

DPI said:
And based on the benches and tests I've seen Haswell is not the miracle cure some pipedreamers seem to believe. Its an incremental step forward.

The other problem for MS is the more efficient Intel's mobile-focused offerings get in the next couple iterations, the more nails in RT's coffin. MS has put themselves in a hell of a spot.
Click to expand...

There are a LOT of different Haswell variants including the ULX SoC version that could possibly fit into a fanless device.
 
DPI said:
If x86 based Win8 tablets had 24hr battery life and a 50% price reduction there's still a massive perception problem. Theres a disconnect, better battery life isn't going stop people from walking by metro screens at best buy, staples, Fry's, costco without as much as a second glance.
Click to expand...

24 hour battery life in a 2 lbs. x86 device would be revolutionary. Hype like this is meaningless.

DPI said:
And based on the benches and tests I've seen Haswell is not the miracle cure some pipedreamers seem to believe. Its an incremental step forward.

The other problem for MS is the more efficient Intel's mobile-focused offerings get in the next couple iterations, the more nails in RT's coffin. MS has put themselves in a hell of a spot.
Click to expand...

There are a LOT of different Haswell variants including the ULX SoC version that could possibly fit into a fanless device.
 
Battery life is not the culprit here...it's the price. People fail to realize the cost involved with making the Pro, but are quick to say I can get something just as good, at least for what I use these toys for, for half the price. On the other hand, it's not made for the 'average Joe', it's the Pro model.

MS would have been more successful making it more expensive and marketing only high dollar corporations with it, then the consumer geek elites would have drooled over trying to get one.

So, I would paraphrase this all up to 'bad marketing philosophy vision for the Pro'.
 
BBA said:
MS would have been more successful making it more expensive and marketing only high dollar corporations with it, then the consumer geek elites would have drooled over trying to get one.
Click to expand...

Right... because we all drooled over the 'big-ass table' concept...

There is big market for low-cost 'content consumption' tablets. Not so much for PC replacement tablets. I think RT could have been much more successful if they had something in the same price range as products like Samsung's Galaxy tablets.

There are professional niches for tablets for artists and designers, but the average business user has no reason to buy a Surface Pro when they can get a laptop with more storage, battery life, and performance for less or a convertible ultrabook for a little more.
 
DPI said:
If x86 based Win8 tablets had 24hr battery life and a 50% price reduction there's still a massive perception problem. Theres a disconnect, better battery life isn't going stop people from walking by metro screens at best buy, staples, Fry's, costco without as much as a second glance.
Click to expand...

metro is killing windows, and MS butting start button back in 8.1 won't fix the issue.

On desktop people want the start menu, not some stupid squares that take up entire screen.
On mobile people want intuitive gui and metro isn't it.

Merging both GUIs is just stupid.
 
nekrosoft13 said:
metro is killing windows
Click to expand...

Or it could be saving it for all we know at this time, unless of course desktops and keyboards and mice are the devices driving future growth.

nekrosoft13 said:
On desktop people want the start menu, not some stupid squares that take up entire screen.
On mobile people want intuitive gui and metro isn't it.

Merging both GUIs is just stupid.
Click to expand...

Over the last month or so I've had several people hit me up for advice on Windows 8/RT tablets. My sister-in-law just called me Sunday about getting here husband a Samsung Ativ 500 that she saw on sale for her husband. She's an iPad owner but saw the 500 when we were at the beach a couple of weeks ago and she and her husband kind of liked the thing, they actually like the larger screen, older eye and such.

They weren't looking for a Windows 8 tablet hybrid, they liked the keyboard option but they just wanted a thin and light tablet that could be used for things like Office when needed. Be it a Start Screen or Start Menu, they really didn't care about, it was the size of the device, it's weight, ability to work as a tablet or PC and with the keyboard and dock not much more than the baseline 4th gen iPad.

Prices, quality hardware, capabilities and refinement of the OS and more Modern apps are what will drive Windows 8's success or failure, not the Start Menu.
 
heatlesssun said:
Intel cares very much about x86 tablets, they've spent a lot of time talking about Bay Trail and Haswell and there's a ton of power configurations in Haswell explicating for thinner and lighter designs for tablets, hybrids and ultrabooks. Like Microsoft hedged it's bets on tablets with ARM and Windows RT, Intel is doing likewise with x86 Android. But I don't see x86 Android pushing a lot a devices, like all of the super cheap and small ARM devices. Intel has almost as much riding on Windows x86 tablets, hybrids and ultrabooks as Microsoft.
Click to expand...

Talking points does not equal execution. They can market all they like, but until they show some serious gains in the marketplace, in the end it is all talk. Both companies have been very disappointing to date when it comes the new market. Both have had very little incentive, until recently, to compete in such markets.

Intel gets very little of the back end profits so it is at least understandable why they have been so slow. Microsoft on the other hand could be making quite a bit more money on the backend.
 
They should have taken notes from Nintendo.

Battery life is almost everything.
 
Ponder said:
Talking points does not equal execution. They can market all they like, but until they show some serious gains in the marketplace, in the end it is all talk. Both companies have been very disappointing to date when it comes the new market. Both have had very little incentive, until recently, to compete in such markets.

Intel gets very little of the back end profits so it is at least understandable why they have been so slow. Microsoft on the other hand could be making quite a bit more money on the backend.
Click to expand...

I'd say that Haswell and Bay Trail are much more than talk, they are real products that have been in the works for years very focused on power issues.
 
heatlesssun said:
So after how many years have Chromebooks been on the market and just how much market share to they have?
Click to expand...

They have 20% to 25% of the low cost laptop market, those under $300. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...k-under-300-defies-pc-market-with-growth.html

The Samsung Chromebook has been the #1 selling laptop at Amazon for a very long time now. http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/565108/

They keep getting more and more popular, while Windows keeps getting less popular.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
BladeVenom said:
They keep getting more and more popular, while Windows keeps getting less popular.
Click to expand...

So after two years there's a pop in Chromebook sales in the cheapest markets and the devices still are barely showing on web usage trackers, which for a web browser OS would seem to be pretty hard to do if there were any number of them.

Doing new things takes time. Certainly Chromebooks are a break from the conventional PC much like Windows 8 though in different ways though it didn't take anywhere near two years to see Windows 8 show up on the web trackers in numbers. If Windows 8 had seen the numbers Chromebooks have over the years, disaster wouldn't be nearly a strong enough word, especially how loosely some people use it in relation to Windows 8/RT these days.
 
Irony of chromebooks, is they look like they strait up copied windows 7.
 
It needs to cost about as much as a composition book. :) Even then, it's not features competitive and is a lot more fragile.
 
heatlesssun said:
So after two years there's a pop in Chromebook sales in the cheapest markets and the devices still are barely showing on web usage trackers, which for a web browser OS would seem to be pretty hard to do if there were any number of them.

Doing new things takes time. Certainly Chromebooks are a break from the conventional PC much like Windows 8 though in different ways though it didn't take anywhere near two years to see Windows 8 show up on the web trackers in numbers. If Windows 8 had seen the numbers Chromebooks have over the years, disaster wouldn't be nearly a strong enough word, especially how loosely some people use it in relation to Windows 8/RT these days.
Click to expand...

It would be another miscalculation in a long series of miscalculations for MS to make any assumptions about chromebook - and by extension Android on x86 which OEM's are already ramping up for. Why there's a disconnect between a top selling device in the laptop category on amazon and the browser string not showing up correctly or at all on web usage trackers who knows. If I'm MS I would assume the worst and pay more attention to the fact sales are high.

Just as Microsoft hedged their bets with ARM, so Intel hedged their bets with Android. Any x86 CPU advancement or efficiencies created by Intel that would benefit a Windows tablet will also benefit Android - and OEM's like Samsung will already be two steps ahead launching devices one or two quarters sooner. And when a windows tablet on a new x86 iteration finally appears MS will still be stuck in archaic business models like charging OEM's a windows license, to make sure their product is overpriced and can't compete. Sometimes I wonder if MS really wants to compete. Half measures are rarely a good come-from-behind strategy.
 
DPI said:
It would be another miscalculation in a long series of miscalculations for MS to make any assumptions about chromebook - and by extension Android on x86 which OEM's are already ramping up for. Why there's a disconnect between a top selling device in the laptop category on amazon and the browser string not showing up correctly or at all on web usage trackers who knows. If I'm MS I would assume the worst and pay more attention to the fact sales are high.
Click to expand...

Miscalculation on Microsoft's part? Hardly. There was a recent pop in the lowest end of the PC market showing Chromebooks at 25%, but if you look at all the data prior to that, as recently as April, Chromebooks were dead in the water and that wasn't Microsoft's research. The trackers are aware of Chromebooks and they've even been asked about why Chromebooks weren't showing up in their numbers. The trackers knew how to track them, there just weren't enough, and still aren't really, that many Chromebooks to track. http://www.zdnet.com/first-real-world-usage-figures-suggest-chromebooks-are-struggling-7000014102/

So if Chromebooks are gaining traction, great. That traction certainly didn't come overnight, it took a good amount of time just to get some sign of life in the cheapest of the cheap. So there looks to be some progress here but it's still plenty room to improve and grow here.

DPI said:
Just as Microsoft hedged their bets with ARM, so Intel hedged their bets with Android. Any x86 CPU advancement or efficiencies created by Intel that would benefit a Windows tablet will also benefit Android - and OEM's like Samsung will already be two steps ahead launching devices one or two quarters sooner. And when a windows tablet on a new x86 iteration finally appears MS will still be stuck in archaic business models like charging OEM's a windows license, to make sure their product is overpriced and can't compete. Sometimes I wonder if MS really wants to compete. Half measures are rarely a good come-from-behind strategy.
Click to expand...

Sure Intel is hedging bets with Android. But Android on x86 doesn't mean that much to a consumer looking for a cheap 7" device while it could mean a lot more for a Windows 8 device. As far as that archaic licensing model, yes it's something of an issue but Microsoft seems to have been pretty aggressive about addressing the issue by dramatically reducing licensing costs for smaller devices. When you consider that Microsoft has agreements with Samsung and others for Android licensing, the gap probably isn't that big. The cost issue for Windows 8 tablets is mostly on the hardware side, specifically storage, 8 and 16 GB main storage drives aren't big enough for Windows. But the price gap on that too is shrinking. $200 7" Windows 8/RT tablets are going to happen one way or another, there's really no choice. Which is why the revenue stream from the Windows Store is important without Google's ability to sell ads.

If it took Chromebooks two years for good news, there's still another year left for Windows 8.;)
 
DPI said:
It would be another miscalculation in a long series of miscalculations for MS to make any assumptions about chromebook - and by extension Android on x86 which OEM's are already ramping up for. Why there's a disconnect between a top selling device in the laptop category on amazon and the browser string not showing up correctly or at all on web usage trackers who knows. If I'm MS I would assume the worst and pay more attention to the fact sales are high.
Click to expand...

Miscalculation on Microsoft's part? Hardly. There was a recent pop in the lowest end of the PC market showing Chromebooks at 25%, but if you look at all the data prior to that, as recently as April, Chromebooks were dead in the water and that wasn't Microsoft's research. The trackers are aware of Chromebooks and they've even been asked about why Chromebooks weren't showing up in their numbers. The trackers knew how to track them, there just weren't enough, and still aren't really, that many Chromebooks to track. http://www.zdnet.com/first-real-world-usage-figures-suggest-chromebooks-are-struggling-7000014102/

So if Chromebooks are gaining traction, great. That traction certainly didn't come overnight, it took a good amount of time just to get some sign of life in the cheapest of the cheap. So there looks to be some progress here but it's still plenty room to improve and grow here.

DPI said:
Just as Microsoft hedged their bets with ARM, so Intel hedged their bets with Android. Any x86 CPU advancement or efficiencies created by Intel that would benefit a Windows tablet will also benefit Android - and OEM's like Samsung will already be two steps ahead launching devices one or two quarters sooner. And when a windows tablet on a new x86 iteration finally appears MS will still be stuck in archaic business models like charging OEM's a windows license, to make sure their product is overpriced and can't compete. Sometimes I wonder if MS really wants to compete. Half measures are rarely a good come-from-behind strategy.
Click to expand...

Sure Intel is hedging bets with Android. But Android on x86 doesn't mean that much to a consumer looking for a cheap 7" device while it could mean a lot more for a Windows 8 device. As far as that archaic licensing model, yes it's something of an issue but Microsoft seems to have been pretty aggressive about addressing the issue by dramatically reducing licensing costs for smaller devices. When you consider that Microsoft has agreements with Samsung and others for Android licensing, the gap probably isn't that big. The cost issue for Windows 8 tablets is mostly on the hardware side, specifically storage, 8 and 16 GB main storage drives aren't big enough for Windows. But the price gap on that too is shrinking. $200 7" Windows 8/RT tablets are going to happen one way or another, there's really no choice. Which is why the revenue stream from the Windows Store is important without Google's ability to sell ads.

If it took Chromebooks two years for good news, there's still another year left for Windows 8.;)
 
I took advantage of the price drop. I'm glad I got it even with rumors of the next gen coming out in a few months. If that does happen I'll just sell this one and upgrade. So far I am very impressed. It is every bit and more of what I was expected. Given that it was only $300 more than my 16Gb 4th Gen consumption-only iPad, this was worth it IMO. It is twice the machine my iPad is.

I want a tablet when I want/need a tablet and I want a laptop when I want/need a laptop. I wanted a 2-in-1 device to take over my other machines. The Surface Pro accomplished 100% of that.


I'm not surprised in how slow and painful it has been for Microsoft during this first outing. They have horrible first outings and suicide PR. It reminds me when they first rolled out the 1st gen Xbox. They'll get straight.
 
asphaltpilot said:
I want a tablet when I want/need a tablet and I want a laptop when I want/need a laptop. I wanted a 2-in-1 device to take over my other machines. The Surface Pro accomplished 100% of that.
Click to expand...

The acceptance of this idea is CRITICAL to the long term success of Windows 8 and it's successors. Unfortunately for Microsoft there's a lot of resistance to the notion of hybrid operation. When used as a hybrid, Windows 8 is very powerful but there is the complexity of the desktop that impacts use as a tablet and tablet elements that cause issues for many. The edges in putting the two UIs and operation methods together was very rough in 8, 8.1 does fix many of the problem on the Modern UI side as far as desktop usability goes but certainly not enough. I just want to see the hybrid concept progress and get better. Long term there's more potential here than just being a desktop or just being a tablet, but it is a complex problem with years of user familiarity and comfort zone to overcome besides the technical issues.
 
asphaltpilot said:
I want a tablet when I want/need a tablet and I want a laptop when I want/need a laptop. I wanted a 2-in-1 device to take over my other machines. The Surface Pro accomplished 100% of that.
Click to expand...

I do too. I love the idea of a Surface Pro. Nut I'm unwilling to carry around a $1000 device with me where I could drop it and break it. My Nexus 7 does what I'd want of a tablet on the go for $200 or so. I broke my original Toshiba Thrive - I can't imagine doing that to a $1000 device.

I like being able to throw the tablet into a glove box, cargo pants pocket, etc and if it gets broken, I'm not out a huge, huge amount.

That's the problem - full computing + tablet aren't a good mix for me. Maybe for the "it-never-leaves-my-house" folks (a lot of which are 10" iPad users from what I hear).
 
GreenMonkey said:
I do too. I love the idea of a Surface Pro. Nut I'm unwilling to carry around a $1000 device with me where I could drop it and break it. My Nexus 7 does what I'd want of a tablet on the go for $200 or so. I broke my original Toshiba Thrive - I can't imagine doing that to a $1000 device.
Click to expand...

A Surface Pro would be more a work device that one would carry, a Nexus 7 would be more of a consumption device. I'm definitely interested in what's coming down the road in the 7" to 8" category for Windows tablets. The only thing out now id the Acer W3, which is getting VERY bad press for it's screen, but the 32 GB is only $300. Microsoft and OEMs really need to do their best to hit the $300 and under mark on a Windows 8 device like a Nexus 7, hopefully well under that for a base model.
 
heatlesssun said:
Which is why the revenue stream from the Windows Store is important without Google's ability to sell ads.)
Click to expand...

Important for who? Microsoft or Consumers? If its Microsoft why should consumers care? Why do YOU care so much about Microsoft financials?
 
DPI said:
Important for who? Microsoft or Consumers? If its Microsoft why should consumers care? Why do YOU care so much about Microsoft financials?
Click to expand...

Because if he isn't being paid by MS then he has an unhealthy obsession with them and should seek counseling. That's the only thing I can think of?
 
pcjunkie said:
Because if he isn't being paid by MS then he has an unhealthy obsession with them and should seek counseling. That's the only thing I can think of?
Click to expand...

He said he works for a bank before. I'm pretty sure he's not a Microsoft employee. Maybe a shareholder or something, but not an employee.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
He said he works for a bank before. I'm pretty sure he's not a Microsoft employee. Maybe a shareholder or something, but not an employee.
Click to expand...
The funny thing is - just about anyone with mutual funds in their retirement accounts own some microsoft... and apple... and google...

But back on topic. I've owned a samsung slate for a couple years (basically is a surface pro, I5, 2GB, wacom, etc...). I like it a lot, but I find myself looking forward to the new galaxy note 3. I'm willing to carry a slightly larger phone to handle most of my day to day tasks and keep a touchscreen ultrabook in my bag for those times when I need to sit down and hammer out some work on a keyboard.

The surface pro is really quite an amazing piece of technology - especially with the price drop. It just doesn't fit very well into an average person's workflow, so in that regard it's a design fail. Despite its improved touch interface, Apple and Google still have a better and more unified user experience.

Also, I think larger tablets (10"+) are slowly falling out of vogue - so once again MS is late to the tablet game by only having a big tablet. Personally, I love the 7" tablets. From there it's not a big leap to dump the extra device and have a single 6"-ish phone. But that's just me, not everyone wants a giant phone. But I don't see the point in carrying around an iphone and a 7" ipad.
 
Virtus said:
Also, I think larger tablets (10"+) are slowly falling out of vogue - so once again MS is late to the tablet game by only having a big tablet. Personally, I love the 7" tablets. From there it's not a big leap to dump the extra device and have a single 6"-ish phone. But that's just me, not everyone wants a giant phone. But I don't see the point in carrying around an iphone and a 7" ipad.
Click to expand...

The bulk of tablets, around 2/3rds, are of 7" to 8" variety. However that does leave 1/3rd of a big and growing market.
 
Virtus said:
The funny thing is - just about anyone with mutual funds in their retirement accounts own some microsoft... and apple... and google...

But back on topic. I've owned a samsung slate for a couple years (basically is a surface pro, I5, 2GB, wacom, etc...). I like it a lot, but I find myself looking forward to the new galaxy note 3. I'm willing to carry a slightly larger phone to handle most of my day to day tasks and keep a touchscreen ultrabook in my bag for those times when I need to sit down and hammer out some work on a keyboard.

The surface pro is really quite an amazing piece of technology - especially with the price drop. It just doesn't fit very well into an average person's workflow, so in that regard it's a design fail. Despite its improved touch interface, Apple and Google still have a better and more unified user experience.

Also, I think larger tablets (10"+) are slowly falling out of vogue - so once again MS is late to the tablet game by only having a big tablet. Personally, I love the 7" tablets. From there it's not a big leap to dump the extra device and have a single 6"-ish phone. But that's just me, not everyone wants a giant phone. But I don't see the point in carrying around an iphone and a 7" ipad.
Click to expand...

Check out the Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2. Runs on the latest Atom and Windows 8 Pro and has a Wacom active digitizer screen (my Surface Pro pen works on it). I bought 6 of them for our company and everyone loves it. Despite being an Atom, it's quite snappy and responsive and it's so very very light at 500 grams, about 7 inches, with a slot that holds the pen - something I detest about the Surface Pro with the weak ass magnet to hold the pen. There's also a USB port, mini-USB port, MicroSD slot, mini-HDMI and SIM slot for those who wants a cellular internet connection.

I'm pretty attached to my Surface Pro because I'm a commuter (1.5 hour train ride each way), so I benefit from the larger screen.
 
heatlesssun said:
A Surface Pro would be more a work device that one would carry, a Nexus 7 would be more of a consumption device. I'm definitely interested in what's coming down the road in the 7" to 8" category for Windows tablets. The only thing out now id the Acer W3, which is getting VERY bad press for it's screen, but the 32 GB is only $300. Microsoft and OEMs really need to do their best to hit the $300 and under mark on a Windows 8 device like a Nexus 7, hopefully well under that for a base model.
Click to expand...

If I was going to lug around a 10" device I'd rather lug a 12"-13" laptop. Even the 9" Nook HD I have in the house right now is really too big for comfortable portability.

I'll probably end up with a 12"-14" laptop with some sort of semi-decent graphics card in it instead of a Surface Pro.

BTW: did get to play a little with a Lenovo Thinkpad Helix that they are doing some testing on at work. Nice screen, nice little Transformer-Prime like setup with Windows 8. Not a bad little device.

I actually owned a convertible tablet for a while (HP TX2), too. I liked the stylus and I see the use for a stylus and a digitizer.

I need to see a x86 Surface, with a ULV i3 or something like that, under $500 before I'm interested. Expensive + Tablet (which means, in my mind, portable and may get damaged) isn't a good mix.
 
heatlesssun said:
The bulk of tablets, around 2/3rds, are of 7" to 8" variety. However that does leave 1/3rd of a big and growing market.
Click to expand...
Well if MS wants to compete they need to get into the 2/3 of the market that's exploding - soon. The nexus 7 is already on gen 2. Google, samsung, and apple have been really quiet about the large tablet arena.

Regardless, I think they haven't done a great job explaining what an average consumer would do with a surface that they don't already do with a cheaper tablet or smartphone. I think most people don't see a need to run outlook when their tablet & phone apps do the same thing. Fewer people are using word... and when they do they're usually at work or are using a desktop or laptop. Not many people really use excel. So I can see people wondering why they should carry around a surface when they look down at their phone and see that it meets their daily needs. 10" iPad users are asking themselves the same question.

It's not a problem with the device - it more a problem of its role for average consumers (i.e. not professionals).
 
Azhar said:
Check out the Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2. Runs on the latest Atom and Windows 8 Pro and has a Wacom active digitizer screen (my Surface Pro pen works on it). I bought 6 of them for our company and everyone loves it. Despite being an Atom, it's quite snappy and responsive and it's so very very light at 500 grams, about 7 inches, with a slot that holds the pen - something I detest about the Surface Pro with the weak ass magnet to hold the pen. There's also a USB port, mini-USB port, MicroSD slot, mini-HDMI and SIM slot for those who wants a cellular internet connection.
Click to expand...
I've looked at that but I was under the impression that it has a 10" screen - which isn't convenient for me atm.
 
GreenMonkey said:
If I was going to lug around a 10" device I'd rather lug a 12"-13" laptop. Even the 9" Nook HD I have in the house right now is really too big for comfortable portability.
Click to expand...

Really depends on how it's being used. 7" devices are great for portability but after a while they just feel cramped. I prefer reading and web surfing on my 11.6" Ativ 500, which is very big for a tablet but it's still pretty light at 1.65lbs and thin at .39" which is far more mobile than most laptops and a conventional laptop still can't be use like a tablet.

GreenMonkey said:
BTW: did get to play a little with a Lenovo Thinkpad Helix that they are doing some testing on at work. Nice screen, nice little Transformer-Prime like setup with Windows 8. Not a bad little device.
Click to expand...

I've kept my eye on this one for a while. As soon as it get's a Haswell upgrade I'll probably get one or something like it with Haswell.
 
Virtus said:
Regardless, I think they haven't done a great job explaining what an average consumer would do with a surface that they don't already do with a cheaper tablet or smartphone. I think most people don't see a need to run outlook when their tablet & phone apps do the same thing.
Click to expand...

I would agree that the messing certainly didn't start out well but as of late it seems to have gotten better.

Virtus said:
Fewer people are using word... and when they do they're usually at work or are using a desktop or laptop. Not many people really use excel. So I can see people wondering why they should carry around a surface when they look down at their phone and see that it meets their daily needs. 10" iPad users are asking themselves the same question.
Click to expand...

So if you don't have much in the way of productive needs, a cheap tablet or phone will suffice, agreed. That said there are actually people that do want to be able to do work on a tablet and certain tasks like note taking or drawing do work very well on Windows. That's a niche but that is a niche what will pay more for their devices so it's not a bad niche to be in. No doubt cheaper 7" Windows tablets are necessary to get much share in the mainstream tablet market.
 
Virtus said:
Well if MS wants to compete they need to get into the 2/3 of the market that's exploding - soon. The nexus 7 is already on gen 2. Google, samsung, and apple have been really quiet about the large tablet arena.
Click to expand...

Microsofts problem in mobile is that they are being out-Microsofted by Google.

Back in the old desktop market, Apple did it's expensive, proprietary thing, while Microsoft encouraged open usage, and cheap machines. Microsoft soon owned 90+ % of the market.

Today in Mobile, Microsoft is trying to emulate Apple, while Google is going wide open, and pushing inexpensive machines. History is repeating itself, with the most open/inexpensive winning the market share again, but today that is Googles Android, not Microsoft.

While Google is effectively out-Microsofting Microsoft. Microsoft is trying to out-Apple Apple.

Good luck with that.
 
Snowdog said:
Today in Mobile, Microsoft is trying to emulate Apple, while Google is going wide open, and pushing inexpensive machines. History is repeating itself, with the most open/inexpensive winning the market share again, but today that is Googles Android, not Microsoft.
Click to expand...

I find it interesting that some folks say that Microsoft is emulating Apple, which is true to some extent I believe, but then then another equally vocal group say that Microsoft should emulate Apple and keep the desktop and tablet OSes separate.

To some extent Apple, Google and Microsoft are all copying elements of each other. But Microsoft's overall mobile strategy is significantly different than either Apple's and Google's. Clearly Microsoft is trying to leverage its desktop dominance in tablets and that's obviously meeting with a lot of problems. But long term that makes sense to me because clearly tablets are going to become more and more powerful and become more desktop like their abilities.
 
^ bingo. MS sat back counting enterprise profits while Android quietly became the Windows of mobile.

Nothing ever caught up to Windows in terms of installed base and its hard to see the same thing not happening again with Android, MS certainly doesn't seem to be trying very hard to catch up with their showing so far .. MS needs a silver bullet and Metro is not it.
 
I held off on getting a Surface Pro but then had a chance to buy one used for $600. I love it, wish I hadn't waited so long.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top