Feds Tell Web Firms To Turn Over User Account Passwords

CreepyUncleGoogle said:
It's a targeted thing to sniff out information for specific people in specific situations that really do need to be watched. The government doesn't care about me talking with my friend about my last date or your stupid "government creeps me out" posts unless you freak out like damicatz does and start saying you wanna overthrow something like an idiot. So yeah, if you're not doing something wrong, you really shouldn't be worried. It isn't like they're gonna forward all those yucky penis pics you sent to your office girlfriend just to watch you get in trouble.
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I'll bet you never close the door when you go to the bathroom, never lock your house, never lock your car, and always leave your wallet out for anyone to see. In fact, you leave all of your really personal things in your car so anyone can rummage through it.
 
I hope my provider said. "No, and why don't you bring us to court over it. We would love to have our lawyers represent the constitution of the united states vs the NSA. Because understand that is how we will bill it. Then when that is done we will file a counter suite against he NSA for damages. And don't worry our discovery will be DEEP and FULL. Because we will sue for BILLIONS. And invite all of the other ISP's to join in.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Lemme put it like this...

People are currently caught up in a popular movement that encourages dislike of their government. They ignore their civic duty to be informed, rational citizens that make decisions based on complete information from credible sources. Instead, they turn to a spoon-fed snippet of "story" given to them by someone who has no clue and makes a bunch of assumptions. They use that as a basis for outrage because it aligns with their population-instilled feelings of injustice that are rooted in the unfounded belief that their situation is unique to them and somehow so much worse than before. They use that outrage as a way to protect their own selfish desires to hide the things they do online that they know are wrong because they fear getting caught cheating on their wife or girlfriend; they fear someone finding out they download nasty kiddie porn; or they're one of the 1 in 20 people in the US that have been incarcerated at some point in their lives and they're trying to hide their experimental drug use. So, instead of figuring out if what's happening is best for socitey as a whole, they decide what's best for them as an individual and throw aside their civic obligations. They base their outrage on a few out-of-context quotes from someone involved in writing the Constitution or a misinterpertation of an amendment or just a genrally hillbilly/redneck idea of the buzzword "freedom" to push their own beliefs and perpetuate the popular "I hate everything the government does and don't care if there's a benefit because I'm not going to bother researching it" idea.

So yeah, old men will forever go on being unable to control their hormones and keep their penis in their pants. Instead they'll pull the disgusting thing out and rub it on anything that feels good while they download horse and goat porn. When they have a chance, they'll freak online in a forum, using Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, or anyone else's quote to perpetuate a society of selfish people with sticky keyboards who want to hide their sexual deviance behind the Constitution without understanding what's on it or the context in which it was written.

Afterwards, they'll go to work and, instead of working, stand around talking about cars and sports, dropping the occasional comment about how awful the governement is while they're supposed to be doing something to earn a paycheck. All of them will pretend like they're collectively upset and that their thoughts are formed by a deeper understanding imparted by something other than groupthink and a 30 second snippet that they saw on TV between commercials advertising a bar of soap and a new model phone they all "must" own because they need it to survive and to look interesting to the opposite sex (protip: not being fat, bathing frequently, and laying off the onions works better).
Click to expand...

That was surprisingly better than expected.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
It's a targeted thing to sniff out information for specific people in specific situations that really do need to be watched. The government doesn't care about me talking with my friend about my last date or your stupid "government creeps me out" posts unless you freak out like damicatz does and start saying you wanna overthrow something like an idiot. So yeah, if you're not doing something wrong, you really shouldn't be worried. It isn't like they're gonna forward all those yucky penis pics you sent to your office girlfriend just to watch you get in trouble.
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One of many perspectives, and a few of them, that you are not considering possibly, allow mechanics you wouldn't like
 
If I was to become President, one thing I’d try to do is dissolve these agencies or at least fire all the decision makers and command givers and hire a whole new team with an oath to uphold the constitution, follow due process and get warrants and violation of this oath would result in termination plus criminal charges.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
 
So this is why Google stores all backed-up android passwords in unencrypted plain text.

Figured they were too smart to do it without a reason.
 
spintroniX said:
uncle google is an epic troll
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It took a few of his posts for me to figure that out. Then, I had to say he was a troll. Either that, or a plant from the government or an extreme liberal. But, I'd rather think they were troll posts. :)
 
1) The U.S. government has demanded that major Internet companies divulge users' stored passwords

2) internet companies say "....'over my dead body."

There's this thing called a 'warrant'. Someone in the Gvmt. was trollin for pushovers
 
I'm surprised the general consensus I'm seeing is the notion the government will be denied on average. I'm sure some major telecoms are already in the process of compliance at least in one regard
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
It's a targeted thing to sniff out information for specific people in specific situations that really do need to be watched. The government doesn't care about me talking with my friend about my last date or your stupid "government creeps me out" posts unless you freak out like damicatz does and start saying you wanna overthrow something like an idiot. So yeah, if you're not doing something wrong, you really shouldn't be worried. It isn't like they're gonna forward all those yucky penis pics you sent to your office girlfriend just to watch you get in trouble.
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Well that was “creepy”
The “telephony metadata” situation is one thing, but getting personal passwords needs Judicial approval.

Tax payers should always keep tabs on their employees.
This is why warrants are so crucial and the process in which to obtain them.

Also, if your information has been obtained by the fed, then you should be notified within 30 days, unless a judicial extension is given for security reasons, no one wants a terrorist to be notified they are under surveillance.

But as a law abiding taxpaying American citizen , if your data is being viewed and the fed cannot prove reasonable cause, then you should have legal recourse.
 
[A] great Empire, like a great Cake, is most easily diminished at the Edges. -Ben Franklin

Hash might work too
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
It's a targeted thing to sniff out information for specific people in specific situations that really do need to be watched. The government doesn't care about me talking with my friend about my last date or your stupid "government creeps me out" posts unless you freak out like damicatz does and start saying you wanna overthrow something like an idiot. So yeah, if you're not doing something wrong, you really shouldn't be worried. It isn't like they're gonna forward all those yucky penis pics you sent to your office girlfriend just to watch you get in trouble.
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Nah. They'll just wait till you do something to piss them off first. Like protest their illegal actions.

I think you have forgotten what it means to be an American. Things like actual freedom and civil liberties. Letting them do things like this because they have fed you a silver platter full of fear is sad.

Stop being scared.

Act like an American.
 
thank you l88bastard for that post... and reminding us all..just how serious this is...
 
Naieve said:
Nah. They'll just wait till you do something to piss them off first. Like protest their illegal actions.

I think you have forgotten what it means to be an American. Things like actual freedom and civil liberties. Letting them do things like this because they have fed you a silver platter full of fear is sad.

Stop being scared.

Act like an American.
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I stuck it in another post on page 2 already, buuuut since people can't seem to put it together, I guess I can simplify a little. :)

People objecting to this are doing so to protect themselves, forming opinions based on a partial understanding of the situation with influence from the popular idea of disliking the government that currently seems pervasive in society. They're doing so because they're interested in protecting themselves and whatever they're doing online.

In short, they're saying it's unamerican to think rationally, get the complete story, and not be motivated by selfishness. If that's the case, Americans are pretty sad, silly people. :(
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I stuck it in another post on page 2 already, buuuut since people can't seem to put it together, I guess I can simplify a little. :)

People objecting to this are doing so to protect themselves, forming opinions based on a partial understanding of the situation with influence from the popular idea of disliking the government that currently seems pervasive in society. They're doing so because they're interested in protecting themselves and whatever they're doing online.

In short, they're saying it's unamerican to think rationally, get the complete story, and not be motivated by selfishness. If that's the case, Americans are pretty sad, silly people. :(
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Nice trolling... you ever think the reason it's popular is because it makes sense and is true? Overreaching government is dangerous even without abuse.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I stuck it in another post on page 2 already, buuuut since people can't seem to put it together, I guess I can simplify a little. :)

People objecting to this are doing so to protect themselves, forming opinions based on a partial understanding of the situation with influence from the popular idea of disliking the government that currently seems pervasive in society. They're doing so because they're interested in protecting themselves and whatever they're doing online.

In short, they're saying it's unamerican to think rationally, get the complete story, and not be motivated by selfishness. If that's the case, Americans are pretty sad, silly people. :(
Click to expand...

It's said that the best satires are indistinguishable from the opinions of real idiots, and your posts definitely fit the bill. However, I tend to disagree: The best satires are those far enough removed to provoke thought and demonstrate the logical conclusions of flawed reasoning. Jonathan Swift was excellent at this, which is why we remember him. You on the other hand are writing satire the way Roger Ebert did, in a way that's so indistinguishable from real shortsighted idiots that your voice has simply become one with theirs. Your posts are slightly too stupid to be real, but they're just not stupid enough to be funny.
 
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
 
GoldenTiger said:
Nice trolling... you ever think the reason it's popular is because it makes sense and is true? Overreaching government is dangerous even without abuse.
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Thank you for not randomly quoting someone from the past out of context. :)

I don't think there's any overreaching at all. There's been wire tapping and survelliance happening for a long time and this isn't really any different aside from the fact that contemporary systems use different underlying technologies. Overreaching might be dangerous, but this is status quo stuff we're dealing with here and nothing to get upset or crazy-political about. :D It's gonna happen no matter who's in charge because that's the sort of world we live in at the moment.

Clinging onto an unfounded sense of privacy that simply isn't mentioned in Constitutional documentation (no, the 4th doesn't apply...it's search and seziure, not privacy) and that was never a fundamental expectation. Besides, I'd rather have some bored alphabet soup agent reading my e-mail than find out a dirty bomb got exploded in an NYC subway. Totally worth the trade off.
 
weebling1 said:
1) The U.S. government has demanded that major Internet companies divulge users' stored passwords

2) internet companies say "....'over my dead body."

There's this thing called a 'warrant'. Someone in the Gvmt. was trollin for pushovers
Click to expand...
Patriot act overrules the 4th amendment. Didn't you know that?
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Lemme put it like this...

People are currently caught up in a popular movement that encourages dislike of their government. They ignore their civic duty to be informed, rational citizens that make decisions based on complete information from credible sources. Instead, they turn to a spoon-fed snippet of "story" given to them by someone who has no clue and makes a bunch of assumptions. They use that as a basis for outrage because it aligns with their population-instilled feelings of injustice that are rooted in the unfounded belief that their situation is unique to them and somehow so much worse than before. They use that outrage as a way to protect their own selfish desires to hide the things they do online that they know are wrong because they fear getting caught cheating on their wife or girlfriend; they fear someone finding out they download nasty kiddie porn; or they're one of the 1 in 20 people in the US that have been incarcerated at some point in their lives and they're trying to hide their experimental drug use. So, instead of figuring out if what's happening is best for socitey as a whole, they decide what's best for them as an individual and throw aside their civic obligations. They base their outrage on a few out-of-context quotes from someone involved in writing the Constitution or a misinterpertation of an amendment or just a genrally hillbilly/redneck idea of the buzzword "freedom" to push their own beliefs and perpetuate the popular "I hate everything the government does and don't care if there's a benefit because I'm not going to bother researching it" idea.

So yeah, old men will forever go on being unable to control their hormones and keep their penis in their pants. Instead they'll pull the disgusting thing out and rub it on anything that feels good while they download horse and goat porn. When they have a chance, they'll freak online in a forum, using Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, or anyone else's quote to perpetuate a society of selfish people with sticky keyboards who want to hide their sexual deviance behind the Constitution without understanding what's on it or the context in which it was written.

Afterwards, they'll go to work and, instead of working, stand around talking about cars and sports, dropping the occasional comment about how awful the governement is while they're supposed to be doing something to earn a paycheck. All of them will pretend like they're collectively upset and that their thoughts are formed by a deeper understanding imparted by something other than groupthink and a 30 second snippet that they saw on TV between commercials advertising a bar of soap and a new model phone they all "must" own because they need it to survive and to look interesting to the opposite sex (protip: not being fat, bathing frequently, and laying off the onions works better).
Click to expand...

Nice argument CreepyUncleGoogle! Those who have the most creepy stuff to hide will likely be the first to call for more privacy. This is an very old argument but you certainly make it sound original and even inspiring. For the most part you may be right; the chatter we read in forums and in comments at the end of online articles may be made by those who don't want their world disturbed.
But there's another group that doesn't want their world disturbed, the powerful and rich. Who can blame them? If you have power and wealth, you'll use your clout and spend your money to keep it. Lobbyists and large political donors need to keep the status quo and create regulation to benefit them. The defense industry is enormous, simply enormous- you think any of them want their cushy lives rattled? So, you have to ask yourself, is it worth catching some perverts if the cost includes quieting those who can change the system for the better? Don't fool yourself, monitoring the internet will not stop terrorists; in fact you might raise more nut jobs instead. What's sad is that you won't ever hear the voices of prosperous growth if your are too busy calling everyone a pervert.
All of this is signals intelligence and it's an old tactic, but the way we communicate, form ideas and develop thoughts now relies on a medium subject to intelligence gathering. If we use the internet as a tool to monitor and control a population, what's the point of having an interent? Maybe all you care about is playing a multiplayer video game or paying your Visa bill, but there are some people that want the interent to be a free and open area of learning. Think of all we can do with this tool? If that's not what the internet is for, I want out. I can play board games with my friends and I can write a check and put a stamp on it. You can have your internet and stay as sheep because the “CreepyUncleGoogle(s)” who need to tell you what you should and should not be doing on the interent makes the internet no fun.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Thank you for not randomly quoting someone from the past out of context. :)

I don't think there's any overreaching at all. There's been wire tapping and survelliance happening for a long time and this isn't really any different aside from the fact that contemporary systems use different underlying technologies. Overreaching might be dangerous, but this is status quo stuff we're dealing with here and nothing to get upset or crazy-political about. :D It's gonna happen no matter who's in charge because that's the sort of world we live in at the moment.

Clinging onto an unfounded sense of privacy that simply isn't mentioned in Constitutional documentation (no, the 4th doesn't apply...it's search and seziure, not privacy) and that was never a fundamental expectation. Besides, I'd rather have some bored alphabet soup agent reading my e-mail than find out a dirty bomb got exploded in an NYC subway. Totally worth the trade off.
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I hardly think my quote was out of context. BTW every quote comes from the past.
Actually, I think the quote applies to you very well.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I stuck it in another post on page 2 already, buuuut since people can't seem to put it together, I guess I can simplify a little. :)

People objecting to this are doing so to protect themselves, forming opinions based on a partial understanding of the situation with influence from the popular idea of disliking the government that currently seems pervasive in society. They're doing so because they're interested in protecting themselves and whatever they're doing online.

In short, they're saying it's unamerican to think rationally, get the complete story, and not be motivated by selfishness. If that's the case, Americans are pretty sad, silly people. :(
Click to expand...

People are objecting this to protect themselves, well that's obviously correct. The problem is you seem to believe that only guilty people want protection. We have a legal system that does a fairly well enough job of protecting criminals already.

This is simply another fear and harassment tool by the government who want to transform the country into a socialist society and you are falling for it like a good little serf.
 
BBA said:
This is simply another fear and harassment tool by the government who want to transform the country into a socialist society and you are falling for it like a good little serf.
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LMAO! Yes, that's exactly what Bush' agenda was; to convert us to a socialist society. :rolleyes:

Back to the real issue at hand.

Here's an interesting bit:
JACOB APPELBAUM said:
Well, I selectively chose to use certain public services, like Sonic.net and Gmail, and I specifically did that so as to serve as a warning to other people. I didn’t use it for anything interesting, never once emailed Julian, for example, from those accounts. But the U.S. government again asserted in those cases, according to the Wall Street Journal, which is one way to find out about what’s going on with you—they asserted that they have the right to all that metadata. And it is possible—on Monday, I had a little interaction with the FBI, where they sort of hinted that maybe there might be a national security letter for one of my email accounts, which is also hosted by Google, specifically because I want to serve as a canary in a coal mine for other people.
From: http://www.democracynow.org/2012/4/20/whistleblower_the_nsa_is_lying_us
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The best part is in the video. There is NO judicial oversight/consent on a NSL on a third party (read Google/MSN/etc) being served one on you. They are not allowed to disclose the NSL to you, so you can't even REQUEST a judicial review!
 
Pretty easy to get interwebbythingy folk in an uproar.

Just tell them they are losing their anonymous status on the internet.

As far as I can tell, the only people the anonymous status has assisted are thieves.

For the rest of us, our computers have spying on us constantly since XP or earlier. Many people reading this have never had an anonymous status in their lives while hooked to the web.
 
Qinsp said:
Pretty easy to get interwebbythingy folk in an uproar.

Just tell them they are losing their anonymous status on the internet.

As far as I can tell, the only people the anonymous status has assisted are thieves.

For the rest of us, our computers have spying on us constantly since XP or earlier. Many people reading this have never had an anonymous status in their lives while hooked to the web.
Click to expand...

There's a difference between being anonymous and having privacy. Do I have anything to hide? No but I still think it's bullshit.
 
Qinsp said:
Pretty easy to get interwebbythingy folk in an uproar.

Just tell them they are losing their anonymous status on the internet.

As far as I can tell, the only people the anonymous status has assisted are thieves.

For the rest of us, our computers have spying on us constantly since XP or earlier. Many people reading this have never had an anonymous status in their lives while hooked to the web.
Click to expand...
Cool, the governments going to start taxing you at a 75% rate while their at it, since they're already taxing you anyway. Why are you upset?
 
weebling1 said:
1) The U.S. government has demanded that major Internet companies divulge users' stored passwords

2) internet companies say "....'over my dead body."

There's this thing called a 'warrant'. Someone in the Gvmt. was trollin for pushovers
Click to expand...
Police do this all the time, really this is such a non story. Why get a warrant when you can just ask and see if people will allow you, doesn't require a judge and only a couple seconds of your life.
 
Qinsp said:
Pretty easy to get interwebbythingy folk in an uproar.

Just tell them they are losing their anonymous status on the internet.

As far as I can tell, the only people the anonymous status has assisted are thieves.

For the rest of us, our computers have spying on us constantly since XP or earlier. Many people reading this have never had an anonymous status in their lives while hooked to the web.
Click to expand...

Privacy is necessary in some of the most important things we do. When you vote you have the right to privacy, but not anonymity (the old ladies at the desk mark your name off). Our votes are tabulated to give us anonymity. Want to see if that rash is just a rash? Wouldn't you like some privacy while you check WebMD?
If we are willing to give up our right to privacy on the Internet, why not privacy when you talk to legal counsel, your doctor, or psychiatrist? We support privacy when we want people to be honest and when we want to protect them from retaliation. Survey research is carefully conducted to protect privacy and, if possible, give anonymity because researchers want the truth.
Information that is unbiased and honest is the most valuable to me. Will privacy protect biased and dishonest information? Sure, but it will have lots of competition. Privacy encourages people to interact and add to the marketplace of ideas.
 
Guys, seriously, the account it used to purposefully troll.

He is actually putting in effort to get under your skin.

Everyone do this and just be done with it.

ignore.gif
 
Mr. K6 said:
Cool, the governments going to start taxing you at a 75% rate while their at it, since they're already taxing you anyway. Why are you upset?
Click to expand...

That's kind of a lateral argument and it doesn't have anything to do with what we're arguing about. It's the same as saying, "If you think bathing your dog daily is a good idea, you probably also think that it's okay to dump all our nuclear waste into our fresh water supply," and attempts to devalue someone's point, but avoid making a rational argument in favor of an alternate view.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
That's kind of a lateral argument and it doesn't have anything to do with what we're arguing about. It's the same as saying, "If you think bathing your dog daily is a good idea, you probably also think that it's okay to dump all our nuclear waste into our fresh water supply," and attempts to devalue someone's point, but avoid making a rational argument in favor of an alternate view.
Click to expand...

Is that NOT the equivalent to the argument you are making?


Just why are you so concerned that we are concerned about being spied on? If it's such a non-issue to you, why are you arguing so much? (Yes, you are labelled a plant, your gig is up).
 
westrock2000 said:
Guys, seriously, the account it used to purposefully troll.

He is actually putting in effort to get under your skin.

Everyone do this and just be done with it.

ignore.gif
Click to expand...

Thanks I did this and my forum experience is vastly improved. It's almost as if this person is employed by Newegg to make the [H] worse.
 
BBA said:
Is that NOT the equivalent to the argument you are making?
Click to expand...

Yup, that's true!

Just why are you so concerned that we are concerned about being spied on? If it's such a non-issue to you, why are you arguing so much? (Yes, you are labelled a plant, your gig is up).
Click to expand...

Mostly because it's sort of funny to see all the paranoia. I guess I find all the guilt and worry interesting from a psychological perspective. By the way, if I'm a plant, how do you expect me to type with my leaves or stem? :p
 
I'll start here.
and hire a whole new team with an oath to uphold the constitution, follow due process and get warrants and violation of this oath would result in termination plus criminal charges.
Click to expand...

They already do swear an oath to protect the constitution, they do follow due process, get warrants when required, and violation is illegal and they can and have been terminated and have risked jail time for violations.

I used to get the briefings and the training on what we do and what we can't do. Annually required training on the limitations regarding collection of information on US persons. The training is verified, and the documents are signed showing you actually were there and attended the training so if you goof up they have proof you received the training and knew better.

So on the one side you have people who say we are not doing anything wrong. You have others who say we are but they don't have any proof. Then you get guys like Manning and Snowden who decide to violate their oaths and betray their country because they feel like these other people are doing bad things and they divulge their "proof".

Many many people who are not qualified to know what they are even looking at scream "Yes ... Proof at last" And the news loves it cause man this is a story right? And then everyone is talking about everything like they know something.

The most amazing thing about "knowing something" is just how boring it is once you actually realize just what "something" really is.

While some of you are just along for the ride, a few will actually care enough to try and read up on these issues. To those of you who really do care, please, go research the psychology of some of the really famous US spies, there are plenty of them and they make decent reading. It's good for people to take part and be active, and not be spoon fed so go read some more. And while you are at it keep there in the back of your mind these two newest contributors, Manning and Snowden. When you are done ask yourself how much in common they have with these other guys, particularly in their motivations, less what they did and more why they did it.

I myself don't like this password thing, I just haven't had time to look into the reporting to see if it's being slanted to sound worse and more sensational then it really is.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
That's kind of a lateral argument and it doesn't have anything to do with what we're arguing about. It's the same as saying, "If you think bathing your dog daily is a good idea, you probably also think that it's okay to dump all our nuclear waste into our fresh water supply," and attempts to devalue someone's point, but avoid making a rational argument in favor of an alternate view.
Click to expand...
I like how any example that completely devalues all the drivel you post is considered a "lateral argument." The bombastic allegory was a great touch, or were you actually attempting to have people take you seriously at some point?
 
[21CW]killerofall;1040074275 said:
It is shit like this that is really making me think of moving to Europe. Now if only I could find a job and a work permit. Hell I wouldn't even be that picky about which country in Europe.
Click to expand...

Pick me up on your way out ;)
 
Mr. K6 said:
I like how any example that completely devalues all the drivel you post is considered a "lateral argument." The bombastic allegory was a great touch, or were you actually attempting to have people take you seriously at some point?
Click to expand...

It is a lateral argument and debating that as a means to attack me is sort of silly. And no, I don't really mind if people don't take me seriously. It's not like anything useful actually gets accomplished in threads involving the government anyhow so taking any of that seriously is pretty silly of someone to do. :)
 
With the patriot act among many others everyone is considered a terrorist by the USA government; yes that includes USA citizens. Wake up people look around and ask yourself why is our government building and currently have over 1000 FEMA camps in the usa with nobody in them yet. Yup prison camps even equipped with slides and swings for your imprisoned children. Look it up on google watch the videos and get a dam gun !
 
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