The Official Guild Wars 2 thread

I think what he meant by hardcore was the amount of time required compared to more casual games. Even if WoW reduced difficulty of instances over time and removed a lot of community and world effects by teleporting people to dungeons instantly, it certainly is a huge time sink/grind with tons of dailies, re-running of dungeon finder instances, and supportive tasks for raids as well as re-doing raids over and over to build your guild's gear up to take on progressive bosses - for most people who want to get the highest tiers of gear at any given patch. I haven't played WoW in a long time now but that is how I understand it to be. (I play some GW2 and rift). Even if you consider WoW more "casual" difficulty now for mass appeal, last I looked it was not casual in the time required to achieve a lot of things for people who don't want to put in part time work hours on a gear treadmill every single week. ;)
 
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elvn said:
I think what he meant by hardcore was the amount of time required compared to more casual games. Even if WoW reduced difficulty of instances over time and removed a lot of community and world effects by teleporting people to dungeons instantly, it certainly is a huge time sink/grind with tons of dailies, re-running of dungeon finder instances, and supportive tasks for raids as well as re-doing raids over and over to build your guild's gear up to take on progressive bosses - for most people who want to get the highest tiers of gear at any given patch. I haven't played WoW in a long time now but that is how I understand it to be. (I play some GW2 and rift). Even if you consider WoW more "casual" difficulty now for mass appeal, last I looked it was not casual in the time required to achieve a lot of things.
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Everquest raiding was a grind. WoW just takes some time.
 
A time sink isn't hard core. A grind use to be the process of gearing up and collecting in game gear, progressing through content, and in the past that meant crafting or or real loot drops. Now its all tokens, xp, and cash shop crap.
 
That's the point. While you might argue a considerable time sink is not "HARDCORE!" , a huge timesink to most people is not considered casual gaming. The terminology could be better. Maybe something like:

casual --- dedicated --- painstaking --- masochistic
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casual : can play whenever you want without being horribly behind the curve or being otherwise useless. Gear treadmill and time sink not very relevant. No need to put in part time work hours toward goals.

dedicated: requires putting in considerable amount of game hours per week to achieve goals and maintain semi-useful gear in regard to current max states of game world. Some research is beneficial and somewhat necessary but not always critical. Some supportive tasking useful but not a constant requirement.

painstaking: requires a lot of hours per week to be viable including guild scheduled tasks, supportive runs/tasks for guild underlings, regular daily questing and tradeskill buffing/supplying.. as well as studying - of combat skill systems and applicable gear hierarchies and combinations, tradeskills, zones and quests, instances and boss mechanics.

masochistic: live in game to exclusion of many other things. Grueling schedules, extremely difficult instances and bosses, slow and punishing progress rates on content. Continual large time sinks and in game "labor" tasks in order to be viable and gain an edge on the most advanced game content.
 
A less hardcore game is exactly what a lot of people want and if they want more hardcore they could go for a game with more grind such as Diablo 3 or WoW. It also ties in with the no subscription as I fall into the hardcore in a light mmo but damned if I can get much done in something like WoW.
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See the thing is I am not sure alot of people want the game design decisions that GW2 went for. They might SAY they want them but the reality of the content when implemented with 2013 technology leaves then cold.

Alot of stuff that sounds really appealing on paper just doesn't seem to really get the players excited. FWIW as a I explained I think people play GW2 in spite of alot of game design decisions - not because of them.
 
GuyClinch said:
See the thing is I am not sure alot of people want the game design decisions that GW2 went for. They might SAY they want them but the reality of the content when implemented with 2013 technology leaves then cold.

Alot of stuff that sounds really appealing on paper just doesn't seem to really get the players excited. FWIW as a I explained I think people play GW2 in spite of alot of game design decisions - not because of them.
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rubbish. gw2 is still going strong. my server i play in is still very active
 
elvn said:
That's the point. While you might argue a considerable time sink is not "HARDCORE!" , a huge timesink to most people is not considered casual gaming. The terminology could be better. Maybe something like:

casual --- dedicated --- painstaking --- masochistic
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

casual : can play whenever you want without being horribly behind the curve or being otherwise useless. Gear treadmill and time sink not very relevant. No need to put in part time work hours toward goals.

dedicated: requires putting in considerable amount of game hours per week to achieve goals and maintain semi-useful gear in regard to current max states of game world. Some research is beneficial and somewhat necessary but not always critical. Some supportive tasking useful but not a constant requirement.

painstaking: requires a lot of hours per week to be viable including guild scheduled tasks, supportive runs/tasks for guild underlings, regular daily questing and tradeskill buffing/supplying.. as well as studying - of combat skill systems and applicable gear hierarchies and combinations, tradeskills, zones and quests, instances and boss mechanics.

masochistic: live in game to exclusion of many other things. Grueling schedules, extremely difficult instances and bosses, slow and punishing progress rates on content. Continual large time sinks and in game "labor" tasks in order to be viable and gain an edge on the most advanced game content.
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Dedication was the perfect word for the time required. When I think hard core I think of unforgiving game mechanics, and high levels of teamwork and coordination.
 
I think even at my "worst" in WoW, I could barely consider that "Paintstaking" level you have there as describing what my play style was like, and I was in a guild that was at the tippety top back in Vanilla and BC. I think it's not just how often people in your guild play, but how well they get along and how well they're able to execute.

It's like anything really, sports namely. In basketball, you could have the best players in the world together, but if they can't play well together it's all shot to hell.

Then I guess you have those people that just never log off.
 
I hated the PvP... everyone had way too much HP, and the attacks were all spammy and all over the place. Lots of button mashing, extreme spell effects, and 1v1 was just a war of attrition.
 
So I finally had some time last night, so I got 2 hours of keep defense in with my guild. We were outnumbered, 2.5/1, but we had a blast trying different tactics to stop the other realm's zerg from taking our keeps.

We used our mesmers to go invis, and create portals all the way out at their siege gear. We dropped through the portal, smashed the siege, and then portaled back into the keep. It was awesome :)

I was playing my super tanky guardian last night, so I got to lead a couple of charges into their ranks and get them to blow all their CC/Burst on me while my team came in and we mopped up.

I got to protect a couple of our squishies from 5 or 6 enemy players as they came to join us in the keep.

Overall it was a blast.
 
Even with what might seem a negative connotation by me since it includes the word "pain", painstaking gameplay requirements in certain mmo's can be fun if you have the time, as long as it doesn't turn masochistic imo. :) The time factor depends on your lifestyle at any given point though - so a lot of people who can devote even that kind of time for a few years can't later on due to other interests, hobbies, commitments... and even other more casual (and non-subscription based) games. It does tend to level off between patches if your guild didn't hit a wall and managed to defeat all of the current content. Once your guild has "mined" most of that content's gear/upgrades into the most active ~ bulk of the guild members the workload and time required to buff your abilities and run through the content is greatly reduced until the next patch. I'm talking about PvE of course, and having tradeskill buffs and gear advantages after "mining" the content into guild a bunch of times. The devs also tend to nerf the content after awhile in some games but that is usually after the release of newer content. With a game like rift, they add content every few months so it doesn't seem to plateau too long, and most sbscripton based games release a major patch once in awhile and occasionally a major expansion with a level increase.

GW2 is a decent alternative for people who like multiplayer RPG worlds but don't have the treadmill/workload time every week or don't care to play a game that necessitates playing that much, and who considering that, don't want to pay a monthly subscription. It could have been more refined/polished in some aspects imo but is fun for what it is. The game has always been more pvp focused, and has a console-ish combat slant to it (not necessarily a bad thing). The World vs World pvp stuff seems fun. Imo you can't expect endgame pve content to be excellent (a common gripe/disappointment I see) when you aren't paying a monthly sub, and the combat style and mechanics are not as surgical~refined~complex as other games by design I think, and the whole gear treadmill thing is not important as in other games. It's not really the same kind of game in regard to comparing PvE endgame stuff in other paid MMOs by its nature.
 
Question for anyone who's played Mesmer quite a bit. I'm loving the idea of this class, but I'm finding PvE combat to be much, much more challenging than any other class at similar levels. I'm currently level 16. I have done a bit of research online to try out different kinds of builds but am still struggling to find something that works consistently without giving me carpal tunnel.

On my own originally I was running Greatsword/Staff. That was a good ranged setup, the GS skills were actually pretty good and I could swap to Staff for defensive skills. I didn't mind weapon swapping, but I found it necessary with this class whereas with other classes it was not needed and fluff. In then I found DPS rather lacking and I was progressing through world events and quests at a snails pace because I just wasn't doing the kind of DPS I was with my Warrior/Ranger etc..

I moved onto a shatter-type build, using Sword/Pistol and Greatsword, or Sword/Sword and Greatsword. I did mix in some staff offhand as well. It seems that these types of builds certainly do more DPS, Mind Wracking my illusions does cause burst DPS that otherwise does not exist in a non-shatter build. So in comparison, my first build was very slow DPS, the shatter builds were better and I could kill single mobs faster. The downside however is that shatter build is one hell of a busy style of play. Perhaps that is better suited for PvP, or WvWvW. In that, its great when solo targeting player enemies and just wrecking them with all the skills/illusions etc that your disposal. In PvE however, there are cooldowns so you can't simply run from one battle to the next and use the 'best' shatter array. There are timers on casting 2 illusions etc.. and yes I know there are traits that speed that up but it still rather slow to be honest.

So with a shatter build I find myself doing more damage on single/2 mobs grouped but I have to slow down how fast I can charge through dungeons in order to do so. Thus I"m not sure the tradeoff is there. Also, a shatter build is VERY twich and requires a heap of player input to master. This build is not for the weak. I usually start sword/sword, cast 2 illusions then double leap into the enemy to stun. Then I whirl attack (#2, forgot spell), then Mind Wrack all 3 of my illusions. Its common there are still other mobs alive and now all focused on me, so I'll roll back, swap ` to Greatsword and deploy ranged skills/illusions to finish them off. Sometimes when using Staff secondary I will blink out and use skills there as well. When the fight is over, I swap ` back to sword/sword, wait for cooldowns and rinse repeat.

Its rather exhausting for PvE to be honest. Mind you I"m not looking for an "easy" or "lazy" build. If that was the case I'd go back to playing my Ranger. I love the challenge but its a little more work than it seems IMO.

So after reading all that nonsense my question is ... What is the best PvE build for a mesmer? Sustained DPS without all the trickery and dance moves?
 
theNoid said:
Question for anyone who's played Mesmer quite a bit. I'm loving the idea of this class, but I'm finding PvE combat to be much, much more challenging than any other class at similar levels. I'm currently level 16. I have done a bit of research online to try out different kinds of builds but am still struggling to find something that works consistently without giving me carpal tunnel.

On my own originally I was running Greatsword/Staff. That was a good ranged setup, the GS skills were actually pretty good and I could swap to Staff for defensive skills. I didn't mind weapon swapping, but I found it necessary with this class whereas with other classes it was not needed and fluff. In then I found DPS rather lacking and I was progressing through world events and quests at a snails pace because I just wasn't doing the kind of DPS I was with my Warrior/Ranger etc..

I moved onto a shatter-type build, using Sword/Pistol and Greatsword, or Sword/Sword and Greatsword. I did mix in some staff offhand as well. It seems that these types of builds certainly do more DPS, Mind Wracking my illusions does cause burst DPS that otherwise does not exist in a non-shatter build. So in comparison, my first build was very slow DPS, the shatter builds were better and I could kill single mobs faster. The downside however is that shatter build is one hell of a busy style of play. Perhaps that is better suited for PvP, or WvWvW. In that, its great when solo targeting player enemies and just wrecking them with all the skills/illusions etc that your disposal. In PvE however, there are cooldowns so you can't simply run from one battle to the next and use the 'best' shatter array. There are timers on casting 2 illusions etc.. and yes I know there are traits that speed that up but it still rather slow to be honest.

So with a shatter build I find myself doing more damage on single/2 mobs grouped but I have to slow down how fast I can charge through dungeons in order to do so. Thus I"m not sure the tradeoff is there. Also, a shatter build is VERY twich and requires a heap of player input to master. This build is not for the weak. I usually start sword/sword, cast 2 illusions then double leap into the enemy to stun. Then I whirl attack (#2, forgot spell), then Mind Wrack all 3 of my illusions. Its common there are still other mobs alive and now all focused on me, so I'll roll back, swap ` to Greatsword and deploy ranged skills/illusions to finish them off. Sometimes when using Staff secondary I will blink out and use skills there as well. When the fight is over, I swap ` back to sword/sword, wait for cooldowns and rinse repeat.

Its rather exhausting for PvE to be honest. Mind you I"m not looking for an "easy" or "lazy" build. If that was the case I'd go back to playing my Ranger. I love the challenge but its a little more work than it seems IMO.

So after reading all that nonsense my question is ... What is the best PvE build for a mesmer? Sustained DPS without all the trickery and dance moves?
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I rolled a mesmer at release, and it was painful to level up in comparison to the other 3 80's I have now.

Mesmer is just highly trait dependent. All I can tell you is to buy gear with maximum dps stats (power, precision, crit dmg) as it becomes available, try to keep weapons up to date as much as possible, same stats.

In the end, I found that greatsword/sword-pistol or sword-focus worked the best for me. Open with izerker (gs4), then GS2.... auto attack for a little bit, when the monster gets close, swap to sword and blurred frenzy (sword2)... add iduelist or iwarden as necessary for damage.

Mesmer really comes into its own when you've got 30ish trait points to play with.
 
Anyone else get in on the free weekend? Its not bad but I still don't want to pay $39.99. I guess I am cheap lol.
 
I found the game very grindish despite being able to grind whatever you want. Additionally, the combat just feels off for me.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Yeah, I thought the same things... back then I got piled on by trolls and fangirls though for posting a thread with my thoughts :rolleyes: , receiving infractions even! http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039089379
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The game is ok but I would not pay over $9.99 for it. There is something off about combat, but I'm not sure what it exactly is. Maybe the controls feel weird/mushy to me.
 
techie81 said:
The game is ok but I would not pay over $9.99 for it. There is something off about combat, but I'm not sure what it exactly is. Maybe the controls feel weird/mushy to me.
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The mods here encourage the mob fanboy mentality and do absolutely nothing about the fanboy mobs jumping all over anyone that disagrees with them.

Honestly its just fucking sick anymore. New game is coming out so someone makes a thread, if you do anything but praise and worship that game in that thread you are flamed (Against the rules but mods do fuck all), bashed and treated like shit. Because having a full discussion about something is just plain wrong and sharing criticism is evil. Its especially bad when it comes to MMOs. If someone starts an MMO thread dont you dare say anything even remotely negative about it because you will be ripped to shreds by the fanboys and the mods will do nothing until you screw up and do something...

Its like religion and its beyond sick. Look through this thread and how absolutely ridiculous some of the people are. But dont you dare mention the evil word "Fanboy" because thats an infraction waiting to happen.

The reality is this subforum is over ran by fanboys and the mods should stop handling them with kid gloves and start doing something about it. Its not healthy, it does not breed a good community and its far far more destructive to a community than the guy calling it for what it is... Fanboyism.

Theres a difference between calling someone a fanboy because they disagreed with you and calling someone a fanboy because they behave like a game is a fucking religion, question it and you are simply labeled an unbeliever by the zealots and are jumped like a black man that stumbled into a KKK convention...
 
It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Some of you still don't get that.

Regarding GW2, I still jump on once a month to check out new content but don't have the time or desire to jump in to get an alt to 80 or anything like that.
 
Mr. K6 said:
It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Some of you still don't get that.

Regarding GW2, I still jump on once a month to check out new content but don't have the time or desire to jump in to get an alt to 80 or anything like that.
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This. GT was in every single thread trashing the game and Disposed you are just as bad as the fan boys with your attitude, language, and anger. Such sad hypocritical mentality that somehow bashing a game makes you objective and praising a game makes you a fanboy. If you don't like a game state your reasons and go on, but every single thread was a continuous trash fest over and over again. It was just simple troll baiting. Don't hop into a game's "official" thread and somehow think you're going to spread an agenda of trash, then when that fails don't start your own thread just to trash the game. State your piece and go on.

Saying an MMO is "grindy" is stupid as every single MMO is grindy, that is the most basic facet of the MMO formula. You either grind PvP or PvE but you have to grind to get ahead. GW2 tried to do something different but in the end it was all the same.

The game was ok, but once the story was pretty much done the game was over. It lacked a lot of end game stuff but I found the journey there enjoyable. The dynamic events allowed for some fun times and I met alot of people doing those that added to the fun. The PvP was fun and the synergy between weapon swapping led to some strategic battles, but in the end I just ran out of time to "grind" I ended up missing a couple months and felt pretty far behind so I just realized my MMO time was up. Other than that I would probably still be playing as GW2 as I enjoyed both the PvP and the PvE.
 
Mr. K6 said:
It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Some of you still don't get that.

Regarding GW2, I still jump on once a month to check out new content but don't have the time or desire to jump in to get an alt to 80 or anything like that.
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Actually, the GW2 praisers were VERY abrasive and vocal in terms of rudeness, attitude, and foul language, which had hardly been used (if at all) by people criticizing the game. That runs directly counter to what you're trying to claim here. It really is just mob rule moreso than anything else... anyone who's not a part of the herd comes off as somehow (falsely) inciting things, and gets modded. I'm not really aiming this at this forum's mods in particular, as it sadly seems to be a thing on most forums nowadays.

Just go look at that thread I linked... completely flat, no inciting language, just my raw thoughts on the game... and within the first several responses I see people trolling with stuff like this:

damn, a whole new thread for him to troll GW2. somebody is bitter about that lifetime purchase of TSW. honestly this game is a blast. no agenda, fuck ton to do and it looks amazing. the game is poorly optimized and has some things that are wrong with it just like any game but for the simple reason ive collected 15 hours of sleep total in the last 3 days says a lot
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We know you don't like GW2 Golden so why keep posting the same shit over and over again and now to make your own thread damn man GW2 must have really touched you in some private spots.
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Welcome to my ignore list GoldenTiger. I should have added you long ago.
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I love reading reviews like this. Always good for a laugh. Critique everything yet make zero suggestions on how or what can be done to improve it. C'mon, let's hear your ideas on how you'd make a clearly superior Guild Wars 2 if you were a designer at ArenaNet.
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Welcome to goldentiger's world. He is at the same crap in the graphic card section.

To anyone thinking about buying the game, do not judge it based on the opening post. Read impartial reviews, ask friends, or go to the guildwars 2 thread on this forum. You would be a fool to base your purchase on the opening post. All I can say is haters gotta hate.

to me this whole thread is a fail troll thread.
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It's kinda sad really. I get the feeling he's butt hurt or jealous in some strange way.
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etc.

Contrast with my OP... trust me, it's not how you say it, it's what you say ;). http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039089379

GoldenTiger said:
Having played Guild Wars 2 during the beta weekend events and stress tests, as well as the last few days to try to see if it was any good thanks to my headstart key not having expired, I found it to have a few good things about it, but WAY more bad things that outweigh them.

Combat feels boring and clunky, with it requiring you to button-mash one main attack and every 30-40 seconds you get to unload a few cool special abilities. Everyone has a zillion hitpoints so combat lasts forever and a day in PVP, making the fights boring and very drawn-out with no tactics really entering play. Animations felt unresponsive, especially on my Thief.

The chat box can't be moved other than a pair of pre-set spots. You can't move anything, much, actually. Basics like confirmation dialogs on many actions (such as clicking "Leave Guild") simply aren't there. The UI needs lots of love, with poor placement of many things and no modifications possible through add-ons/etc.

World vs. World is horrid. If you can even get in with the queue, you end up running for 5, 6, 7, 8 minutes to get to a fight, die in 30-60 seconds in a zerg battle, and then spend the entire time running back across the map again like a good little zergling for another several minutes. The "Downed" state is ridiculous for 1on1's... I can kill someone, try to finish them off with the finisher but then die of a DOT or they teleport with their "downed" ability, then they come back to life and kill/finish me off despite my having won the battle. TERRIBLE game design. Additionally there's no reason to care about the actual fighting seeing as how there's no risk/reward, nothing to be gained, nothing to be lost, just "for the fun of it" for fighting as nothing changes in the world or your character other than a simple cosmetic change or whatnot of your armor, for winning. Like mashing a button in Farmville to feed your cows over and over, it gets boring very quickly with no greater overarching goal.

The PVE is a pretty bad setup... you run around in a swarm of locusts to do so-called "dynamic" events that actually just are on loop every 5 minutes for the next person to zerg on, and they're pretty much all "click on five of these items while everyone else does the same" or "WOW you became a cow! Oh wait now you're a chicken in this one, how innovative! Run, run, follow that NPC!" for gameplay. No unique things like Warhammer Online had or RIFT where you're attacking/defending multiple points and doing actual dynamic fights, sieges, and needed some tactics, for defeating zone events and Public Quests.

The game makes a big point of trying to tell you "GO EXPLORE!" but you are supposedly getting some exploration and sense of amazement seeing things that everyone's obviously already seen 20 million times before? The game basically holds your hand showing you where to go, what to do, etc.

Even basics like the camera feel off, almost like it's off-center or something and more of an "over the shoulder" view which is clunky and feels weird + unresponsive.

Other EXTREMELY basic things like having a functional mail system, trading window, and auction house that other games got knocked for, are simply glossed over by reviews and forum fans, not to mention having to pay to buy simple things like bank space and bag slots (oh, you thought I meant gold? No, I mean real money! Oh, and did I forget to mention you can buy gold essentially through the in-game store, to get the best gear right away when someone's selling it? Yeah, pay-to-win on the extreme!).

Finally the game just doesn't run well for me, and I'm on a powerful machine. Performance is all over the place and typically runs 25-30fps with occasional spikes to 40, at 2560x1600 with a 2600k, gtx 670, ssd, etc. in my rig. Changing the settings down seems to barely affect anything either.

Anyway, just some food for thought and temperance of the massive hype that no game could ever hope to live up to surrounding this one, for people thinking/deciding on whether to buy the game.
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Disposed said:
The mods here encourage the mob fanboy mentality and do absolutely nothing about the fanboy mobs jumping all over anyone that disagrees with them.

Honestly its just fucking sick anymore. New game is coming out so someone makes a thread, if you do anything but praise and worship that game in that thread you are flamed (Against the rules but mods do fuck all), bashed and treated like shit. Because having a full discussion about something is just plain wrong and sharing criticism is evil. Its especially bad when it comes to MMOs. If someone starts an MMO thread dont you dare say anything even remotely negative about it because you will be ripped to shreds by the fanboys and the mods will do nothing until you screw up and do something...

Its like religion and its beyond sick. Look through this thread and how absolutely ridiculous some of the people are. But dont you dare mention the evil word "Fanboy" because thats an infraction waiting to happen.

The reality is this subforum is over ran by fanboys and the mods should stop handling them with kid gloves and start doing something about it. Its not healthy, it does not breed a good community and its far far more destructive to a community than the guy calling it for what it is... Fanboyism.

Theres a difference between calling someone a fanboy because they disagreed with you and calling someone a fanboy because they behave like a game is a fucking religion, question it and you are simply labeled an unbeliever by the zealots and are jumped like a black man that stumbled into a KKK convention...
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That's pretty much why I don't tend to spend much time writing expanded guides, putting large efforts into posting to help someone, etc. anymore. Write a help post for someone's OP, you get flamed as a clueless buffoon despite being correct, with people throwing out all kinds of random "solutions" only for the OP to later come back and say you were right... spend an hour writing a guide to part of a game, and you get a bunch of people spamming and maybe one thanks at all... post insightful thoughts and honest reviews, get piled on and infracted...

Climber said:
This. GT was in every single thread trashing the game

Saying an MMO is "grindy" is stupid as every single MMO is grindy, that is the most basic facet of the MMO formula. You either grind PvP or PvE but you have to grind to get ahead. GW2 tried to do something different but in the end it was all the same.
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Just as the people who liked it were in every single thread singing its glories. How is that any different? (rhetorical question) People will state their opinions, and good or bad it shouldn't be jumped on by unruly hordes of people trolling someone for speaking their mind. Yet, that's exactly what happens.

Many MMO's are NOT solely grind-based like GW2 is. It is not a basic facet of the MMO formula, and yes, GW2 tried (or claimed to) something different but got burnt as it stunk. It's been called out for that quite a number of times.
 
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Climber said:
This. GT was in every single thread trashing the game and Disposed you are just as bad as the fan boys with your attitude, language, and anger. Such sad hypocritical mentality that somehow bashing a game makes you objective and praising a game makes you a fanboy. If you don't like a game state your reasons and go on, but every single thread was a continuous trash fest over and over again. It was just simple troll baiting. Don't hop into a game's "official" thread and somehow think you're going to spread an agenda of trash, then when that fails don't start your own thread just to trash the game. State your piece and go on.

Saying an MMO is "grindy" is stupid as every single MMO is grindy, that is the most basic facet of the MMO formula. You either grind PvP or PvE but you have to grind to get ahead. GW2 tried to do something different but in the end it was all the same.

The game was ok, but once the story was pretty much done the game was over. It lacked a lot of end game stuff but I found the journey there enjoyable. The dynamic events allowed for some fun times and I met alot of people doing those that added to the fun. The PvP was fun and the synergy between weapon swapping led to some strategic battles, but in the end I just ran out of time to "grind" I ended up missing a couple months and felt pretty far behind so I just realized my MMO time was up. Other than that I would probably still be playing as GW2 as I enjoyed both the PvP and the PvE.
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Excellent points all around, well said. :cool:
 
GoldenTiger said:
Just as the people who liked it were in every single thread singing its glories. How is that any different? (rhetorical question) People will state their opinions, and good or bad it shouldn't be jumped on by unruly hordes of people trolling someone for speaking their mind. Yet, that's exactly what happens.
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Wrong. The official threads are for people to state their opinions, you trashed it every single post ad-nauseum over and over. People were tired of your constant trashing of the game in every single post. Everyone knew you didn't like the game but you kept on and on and on. Look at the first 3 points you used, all of them point out your constant trolling of the game. It has been almost a year and I still remember reading your posts, going WTF is wrong with this guy...

State your gripes with the game and move on. I'm not in the SW:TOR thread trashing the game or in the FFXIV thread stating how much the FF franchise sucks. I played them and moved on, stated why I didn't like the game and moved on from the posts. You however stuck around and disagreed with anyone who had anything positive to say and people got tired of that. You presented a very lopsided view of the game and those who were enjoying the game tried to counter your points but the threads turned out like many do which is why I just chalked your posts up to troll baiting.

You wanted a flame fest, you didn't want an honest discussion of the game and you constantly misconstrued facts to fit your opinions which is what turned the posts even more retarded. See Combat feels boring and clunky, with it requiring you to button-mash one main attack and every 30-40 seconds you get to unload a few cool special abilities. Which is 100% false. Damnit GT I'm not going to get into all this again. You were in the wrong once you kept pushing and pushing. To state you don't like a game and to state your reasons is fine, but over and over again multiple times every hour for days on end just got old and stale. The simple fact that I can remember this stupid shit months later even grates on me.

GW2 didn't pan out but not for any of the reasons you stated. It failed because like most MMO's they had nothing behind the shiny stuff. Once the game was over it was done, no raids, no world bosses, no world dynamic events that changed the face of the game, and their massive world event was one huge cluster fuck that was 8 hours long and didn't give any decent loot that equated the time involved.

Many MMO's are NOT solely grind-based like GW2 is. It is not a basic facet of the MMO formula, and yes, GW2 tried (or claimed to) something different but got burnt as it stunk. It's been called out for that quite a number of times.
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Every single MMO is a grind, one way or another you have to grind to get to max level. I've been playing since UO and every single MMO I can think of has a grind. UO, EQ, DAoC AC, Shadowbane, Eve, AoC, WoW, EQ2, Lineage 1 & 2, Darkfall, WHO, LoTRO, TERA, Planetside, Aion, SW:ToR, and the list goes on...each and every one has a grind. Sure you can hop into WoW or many others and just run quests till max level but the purpose of an MMO is to be part of a community to raid, to have a city and to maintain it, to have the shiny stuff and that requires grinding. You want a quadracorn with rainbow feathers, grind that shit, you want the dull black armor with green vapors coming from the ass and armpits, guess what...grind that shit out. You want Lady Sylvanas to give you a lapdance...grind that faction baby.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PoG1qqLN8Y

This is a nice WvW showcase from a Warrior in Red Guard in euro t1. Great fights and you can really see how 25 skilled people can kill 50+ clueless.

To me, the only grind I do is kill people in WvW. Fun as hell every night. 50,000 kills now! Without culling, the game in WvW is so much more fun.

GoldenTiger, lol. Have you even played the game this year? Go play what you want to. Have fun!
 
Climber said:
Saying an MMO is "grindy" is stupid as every single MMO is grindy, that is the most basic facet of the MMO formula. You either grind PvP or PvE but you have to grind to get ahead. GW2 tried to do something different but in the end it was all the same.

The game was ok, but once the story was pretty much done the game was over. It lacked a lot of end game stuff but I found the journey there enjoyable. The dynamic events allowed for some fun times and I met alot of people doing those that added to the fun. The PvP was fun and the synergy between weapon swapping led to some strategic battles, but in the end I just ran out of time to "grind" I ended up missing a couple months and felt pretty far behind so I just realized my MMO time was up. Other than that I would probably still be playing as GW2 as I enjoyed both the PvP and the PvE.
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Well, you are right that the grind element is there in MMO. Though you have your "I enjoying grinding this" or "man this is mind numbing grind" in which GW2 tried to cater for the first case but frankly I see that it failed, atleast for me. This is coming from a guy who religiously played WoW especially during TBC and WotLK. Hell, WoW had you doing much more grindy stuff but for some reason, you feel that: it was rewarding and since the combat was well implemented, made it fun.

So yeah, when I said "grindy", I meant the second type... I hope my justfication is less stupid now...
 
While waiting on FFXIV to be released, I took the plunge back into GW2. Having more fun this time around, just going with the basic warrior with a warhammer. It's a little mindless, but better than WoW by far.
 
finally deleted it off the hard drive

been trying to level an ele alt...early zones are dead..no one around..it was great fun at launch but now its dead...so much for higher levels going back to low level zones for content....another sounds good on paper theory but fails in execution

did a guild event over the weekend...one was turning into a chicken and running through an obstacle course...dull and boring

the other was a jumping puzzle..if I wanted a console platform game, I'd go play one..keep the damn jumping puzzles out of my mmos

and ofcourse, there was major guild drama during the 'guild' events

NEXT !!
 
I'd recommend Neverwinter as well, great free MMO choice while waiting for big-time stuff to come out, like FFXIV in August.
 
Bangorang said:
finally deleted it off the hard drive

been trying to level an ele alt...early zones are dead..no one around..it was great fun at launch but now its dead...so much for higher levels going back to low level zones for content....another sounds good on paper theory but fails in execution

did a guild event over the weekend...one was turning into a chicken and running through an obstacle course...dull and boring

the other was a jumping puzzle..if I wanted a console platform game, I'd go play one..keep the damn jumping puzzles out of my mmos

and ofcourse, there was major guild drama during the 'guild' events

NEXT !!
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While, ironically enough, I'm actually having some fun with GW2 finally due to the WvW...
 
GoldenTiger said:
While, ironically enough, I'm actually having some fun with GW2 finally due to the WvW...
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best part of the game...best fun is when they reset servers on fridays at 9pm est..those first 2 hours are a freakin blast...the problem, was after those 2 hours, I was bored

best fun was running into a group of enemies under water...omg, what a hoot !!
 
Bangorang said:
best part of the game...best fun is when they reset servers on fridays at 9pm est..those first 2 hours are a freakin blast...the problem, was after those 2 hours, I was bored

best fun was running into a group of enemies under water...omg, what a hoot !!
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Yeah, I'm still keeping my eyes on ESO for some RVR-type action, and of course the Camelot Unchained founders' forums that I'm participating in, but that one's not due for another couple of years minimum. For now this is holding me over, a little.... :eek: .
 
Well it looks like all that cash I spent during the Halloween event went to some good use! :p
 
One of these days I will try this game again. I haven't played since about a week or two after launch. I just didn't care for the skillsets so I got bored. Maybe I will just delete every character and start over.
 
Why did I ever stop playing this game.. I hit level 80 mesmer within the first 2 weeks of launch and havent played since! :(
 
refraxion said:
Why did I ever stop playing this game.. I hit level 80 mesmer within the first 2 weeks of launch and havent played since! :(
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It got boring, repetitive, just like most mmo's.

The things we thought were "different" weren't, it was just window dressing.

Events felt empty, because none of them have any lasting consequences or anything. You kill the big dragon? great, a few hours later he respawns again for people to kill in the same event.

I don't get how they messed this up, it's like they didn't learn from Warhammer with their event system.

Asheron's Call did this better then ANYONE and that was over a decade ago. Events need to end, there needs to be actual storylines that come to a close so that playrs actually feel like they are impacting the world and experiencing things that they will only get to experience for that time and no other.
 
Stiler said:
It got boring, repetitive, just like most mmo's.

The things we thought were "different" weren't, it was just window dressing.

Events felt empty, because none of them have any lasting consequences or anything. You kill the big dragon? great, a few hours later he respawns again for people to kill in the same event.

I don't get how they messed this up, it's like they didn't learn from Warhammer with their event system.

Asheron's Call did this better then ANYONE and that was over a decade ago. Events need to end, there needs to be actual storylines that come to a close so that playrs actually feel like they are impacting the world and experiencing things that they will only get to experience for that time and no other.
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I leveled a couple of 80's after buying the game during release. I remember the final story quest had you do a dungeon of sorts, and it was an epic fail dungeon on so many levels haha.

I quit playing after the Halloween event. Not to say it's a terrible game, but it's great in small doses.
 
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