I had a similar, though negative experience. I can run AIDA64 all day long at 4.5, 1.2V, but the moment I turned on SWTOR I started getting nvidia driver crashes. Had to raise the voltage an extra .01V to stay stable. I think this chip has shown beyond a doubt that the standard "stability" tests are no longer valid for average users. They are only good enough to give you worst case scenario temperatures in synthetic testing and are no indication of the quality of your chip or how well it OC's.
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For those who bought Haswell. Was it what you expected?
- Thread starter Azureth
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I had a similar, though negative experience. I can run AIDA64 all day long at 4.5, 1.2V, but the moment I turned on SWTOR I started getting nvidia driver crashes. Had to raise the voltage an extra .01V to stay stable. I think this chip has shown beyond a doubt that the standard "stability" tests are no longer valid for average users. They are only good enough to give you worst case scenario temperatures in synthetic testing and are no indication of the quality of your chip or how well it OC's.
Did you need that cache offset for windows to load? Windows load screen hangs @ 4.7/1.295V/uncore 4.4.
It also saves on the power bills, making Haswell cheaper in the long run.
I've experienced some USB 3 oddities, but the system is otherwise running great. My card reader seems to inadvertently lose connectivity. No other peripherals having any troubles.
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Markistehnamezor
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Honestly, I haven't seen a big improvement, I could have stuck with my LGA775 and just upgraded to an SSD and a graphics card. Even then, I still have yet to find something that would have maxed my Q9550. Also, since I have more ram things are smoother. Was upgrading to a 4670 worth it from a Q9550? in my opinion, no since a few minor upgrades would have been more cost efficient. In the end, I am happy with my new system, just not pleased.
Its worth it when over clocked to around 4.8
Q9550 is super old
Whats your vid card and res you run at
Markistehnamezor
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I have an old dell 2007wfp that I plan on upgrading to a 27 or 30 inch. so, 1680x1050 lols. I bought a used 660ti as a stand in until maxwell releases, also contemplating on just getting a gtx770 4gb and using the 660ti as a physx. If I see a 4770k sale, I may jump on that and sell my 4670, note I have the non-k version.
You are behind the times my friend. You should be running 1920x1200 . Of course your 9550 is great. My old gtx570 2 years ago was held back with my q9550 running at 1920x1200
Core 3730k is plenty. Get the corsair h100
And some gskill ram with a asus rog board
You will easily get 4.6
Get another gtx660 ti in sli until you upgrade tp 2500x res.
Markistehnamezor
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Ya, I plan on upgrading to an i7 when I get the chance to do so. I would get a 1920x1200 monitor, but, I feel like it's too small. I'm set on getting a dell 27" or 30" IPS. As for an AIO, I can fit a H110 up front in my fractal midi.
Read through the entire post and am still torn. I have the itch to upgrade again. Plus upgrading frees up my i7 930 for some other things which will in turn give me some more benefits.
After learning some things about my i7 and it's overclock the biggest reason I'd look at upgrading is to reduce the heat the CPU gives off. But... Since Haswell runs pretty warm from what I'm seeing people say I guess I'll continue to hold off. With what I do on the PC (gaming, ripping/watching movies, typical web browsing word processing junk) I really don't need to upgrade. I don't feel bottle necked with anything I do. Just heat. So maybe I'll just wait another year like some others. Plus I personally wouldn't want to get a 4770k and be maxed out on upgrade-ability CPU wise right out of the gate. But it's so new I'm assuming Intel will be releasing some better chips. (I really don't know because I haven't read much about what Intel plans to do)
After learning some things about my i7 and it's overclock the biggest reason I'd look at upgrading is to reduce the heat the CPU gives off. But... Since Haswell runs pretty warm from what I'm seeing people say I guess I'll continue to hold off. With what I do on the PC (gaming, ripping/watching movies, typical web browsing word processing junk) I really don't need to upgrade. I don't feel bottle necked with anything I do. Just heat. So maybe I'll just wait another year like some others. Plus I personally wouldn't want to get a 4770k and be maxed out on upgrade-ability CPU wise right out of the gate. But it's so new I'm assuming Intel will be releasing some better chips. (I really don't know because I haven't read much about what Intel plans to do)
Agree. If you want the most out of your chip, you should mostly focus on what you'll be running. Aida64 and others will indicate how much trouble you can get into if you fail to monitor your temps or voltages in a new application. But on the whole, temps and voltages are only an issue for those AVX instructions that bump up voltage by +0.1v
To answer your earlier question- in terms of manual voltages, 4.8GHz core requires around 1.4v. It will bump up a little higher while running prime95, and instantly over-heat and throttle. A core offset of +0.225v has been fine in terms of stability. During games, voltage is right at 1.33v. I can manually tune the voltage down to 1.3v and still run games just fine...Haswell really doesn't break a sweat on CPU-limited games (much less GPU-limited games). But a manual 1.3v cannot run Aida64 for very long.
Regarding the cache, I found that my Asus Z87-Plus could not keep things stable using Auto settings. At 4.8GHz with 39x cache, it will bsod during boot unless I bump up the cache voltage to manual 1.1v. Similarly, it can't boot at 45x or 46x using Auto. 45x cache requires manual 1.25v, and 46x cache requires manual 1.325v. I just started using a +0.3v offset instead of manual 1.325v, but unfortunately my motherboard doesn't show my cache voltage, so I don't really know where that +0.3v offset puts me.
Sounds like you should give some offset to your cache to help stability. Some users see higher temps when increasing cache voltage, but I didn't see anything. Core speed is the priority though. Then cache, then memory.
Will try some offset. The guide below suggests the same. Thanks.
Got to 4.7 @ 1.345V/uncore 4.4. Super PI and aida64 stable. However it crashes during gaming within 5-7 minutes. With Prime, temps skyrocket to 96 then BSOD.
If I can find out what the base PCH voltage is I can try and lower it to see if it helps with temps.
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Don't forget that socket 2011 supports more installable RAM as well; that was a huge factor for me. For people using this for a virtualization platform, you can run quite a few VMs with 64GB of RAM.
Prime should throttle, not bluescreen. Set your cache to 3.9 and manual voltage to 1.15v on it. If you still crash during games and Prime, then you need more core voltage. My chip needs ~1.4v manual to not freeze on Prime (it hits 100C and throttles, but doesn't crash).
Battleneter2
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Its nice to think like this, certainly justifies the decision.
If you did the math you will quickly discover your statement is not correct and the cost of the upgrade would no where near pay for itself with electricity savings, even if you kept your current platform for 5 years. On top of that you have a depreciating asset, so putting that upgrade money into a appreciating asset would likely widen the gap further over keeping your old platform.
True they need to work on reducing video card power consumption though. My lcd needs to be upgraded to led for example would be a big saver for me especially cause i run 2 cfl monitors at about 150 watts each vs 40 watts led
Yes, you will need to update the firmware update of the SSD maker, not the controller. This would bridge the controller with the SSD and if successfully updated then it would permanently fix this issue
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. However, at this time there is no fix for Haswell compatibility when using a SATA 3Gb/s SandForce controller based SSD regardless of who the drive manufacturer is.
I finally decided to retire my launch I7 920 from my main rig. I would definitely say it was worth it for me. The processor itself is significantly faster than my 920, upgrading has even allowed my 580's to stretch their legs a bit more. On top of the CPU increase getting a new feature rich motherboard with wifi / bluetooth / usb 3 / pcie 3 / sata 6 etc.. was long over due. Gained about 120 mb/s read / write on my vertex 4 going from sata 3 to 6.
Overclocking wise, out of the box i was limited to 4.2ghz before the temps got out of control. Sure that's not what people were getting with Sandy but it was decent, after i delidded my cpu i was able to get it up to 4.6 and still have room to play. Overall its been fun to play with something new, sat on my 920 far too long!
Overclocking wise, out of the box i was limited to 4.2ghz before the temps got out of control. Sure that's not what people were getting with Sandy but it was decent, after i delidded my cpu i was able to get it up to 4.6 and still have room to play. Overall its been fun to play with something new, sat on my 920 far too long!
Battleneter2
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Were you running your 920 as stock speeds or stupid low resolutions?. I want to upgrade but I can think of much more fun ways to spend $700+ if I don't see any real gaming gains (ie hookers).
Not a lot of hard data coming from people that upgraded from OC Bloomfield/Nehalem to Haswell with real gaming performance. It always seems to be a "I feel" type statement which seems more like mental justification over actual games performance improvement.
Personally my GTX680 appears generally maxed where I would expect and where the CPU is a factor its over 100FPS without elaborating in detail.
No argument Haswell Is a big Jump for Synthetic benchmarks and many CPU intensive apps just nothing I am reading is convincing me to pull the trigger, I am wanting someone to prove me wrong.
SonDa5
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Theoretically HW should be better than IB. A few HW over clockers are showing 5GHZ chips popping up.
Really not much of an upgrade from IB but my main reason for considering to upgrade from IB to HW is for the challenge of delidding HW and having fun over clocking it.
I''ve just about decided to get HW just to delid it and have fun trying to over clock it.
Really not much of an upgrade from IB but my main reason for considering to upgrade from IB to HW is for the challenge of delidding HW and having fun over clocking it.
I''ve just about decided to get HW just to delid it and have fun trying to over clock it.
What was your 920 clocked at? Comparing it to my 930.
In the same boat as you and our CPU's are similarly clocked. And, like you I don't feel CPU limited with the 680. Probably the most demanding game I've been playing recently is Company of Heroes 2 and I "see" no problem playing it at all. I did play through Crysis 2 and that played much better after I upgraded from a 5850 to a 7970, and there wasn't much difference from the 7970 to the 680.
I said it earlier... Only reason I'd really consider upgrading (aside from hopefully a decent percentage margin of improvement over my current setup) is for the heat factor... But Haswell seems to run hot and I'd want to push it up to at least 4.2GHz like many others have.
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My 920 was clocked at 3.8, for the first couple years i had it at 4.2 stable, but over time either it or my H50 started to degrade, haven't been able to get it back to 4.2 for the last couple months.
Overall i would agree with what you guys are saying though, sure in Cinebench, or Vantage my scores greatly increased but i haven't seen massive jumps in actual gaming. Things i have noticed though are BF3 is definitely more fluid, my min fps is more stable now, i used to get occasional hitching a few times a map, heaven also gained about 4 fps.
If you are looking at it from a purely "will this increase my fps" standpoint then no i probably wouldn't upgrade, if i was still able to run my 920 at 4.2 i probably wouldn't have bothered, but the platform improvements, and itching to play with something new got me.
Overall i would agree with what you guys are saying though, sure in Cinebench, or Vantage my scores greatly increased but i haven't seen massive jumps in actual gaming. Things i have noticed though are BF3 is definitely more fluid, my min fps is more stable now, i used to get occasional hitching a few times a map, heaven also gained about 4 fps.
If you are looking at it from a purely "will this increase my fps" standpoint then no i probably wouldn't upgrade, if i was still able to run my 920 at 4.2 i probably wouldn't have bothered, but the platform improvements, and itching to play with something new got me.
They're hitting 5 Ghz but they are also dying. Seems certain batch #'s are susceptible to an early death at 5.0 regardless of how they're being cooled.
Battleneter2
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Fair enough and there is definitely a couple of games where it may benefit to go from OC Bloomfield and you touched on 1. The list I have so far....
1. Supreme Commander Forged Alliance (poor multi-thread engine, can confirm it maxes one core under certain maps and AI slowing sim speed), cant confirm a 4470K will be "tangibly" faster but likely to be technically faster.
2. BF3 has been mentioned before as a CPU bottleneck under certain conditions, haven't whitenessed a CPU max myself (on any core) but haven't played much recently.
3. Arma2, I don't play but seen this mentioned a number of times would be worth a CPU jump from OC Bloomfield, think we can confirm this one.
4. Guild Wars 2, once again I don't play, has been mentioned, a tad dubious about this one no hard data.
There is all sorts of factors when people upgrade, they may increase ram and or ramspeeds. May change OS or HDD's etc. So the "seems faster" is a little weak for these reasons. When talking just about a FPS bump it may just be a new video driver, unless supported by a observation of old CPU being maxed ie using Perfmon.
I think the itch to have something new is strong, but I am a tad old fashion, I like to see something tangible for my investment. A few fun hours overclocking doesn't = $700+
As you say no real heat advantage, maybe a tiny 50 watts saving during heavy game play but my Aircon pulls 7000 watts+ if i turn that sucker on so who am I kidding!
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kametsukida
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Hasbeen is probably the worst cpu from Intel since the P4.
The itch is definitely there. And I don't know what it is about Haswell that really has me wanting to upgrade. I do know the end of last year I was telling myself Haswell might be the best time for me to consider something new. Maybe that's why.
But, like you, I want to see something worth 700 dollars as well. I'm thinking if I were to do it I wouldn't feel to bad about spending the cash because I'd know I had the best that was out at the time and that I'd have it for another three years. But on the flip side... I could wait some more now and get something even better down the road. I know a lot of people say it's pointless to wait because there'll always be something better out... But if my current setup is working well for me without any bottle necking I mine as well wait. And the biggest thing is, the pro's don't outweigh the con's, imo.
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Never said it paid for itself - only that its cheaper than upgrading to the slightly less expensive, upfront cost of the last generation. Computer gear is not an investment, it's a cost. Haswell is slightly less costly than the previous generation chips because it has reduced power needs (supposedly).
NukeDukem
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I am debating upgrading from my [email protected] to z87 and a 4770k... Really looking to improve upon my minimum framerates using a single 1080p, 120hz monitor w/dual 7970's... I have read that the CPU is more important for 120hz 1080p gaming than it is for higher resolutions @ 60hz...
Any adopters in my boat notice a real benefit from Haswell over Nehalem? So much focus on the high res / multi monitor folks but what about 1080p 120hz?
Any adopters in my boat notice a real benefit from Haswell over Nehalem? So much focus on the high res / multi monitor folks but what about 1080p 120hz?
Other than synthetic benchmarks skyrocketing I have noticed a "smoothness" in my system. I didn't run any benchmarks but it does seem like min FPS is increased in BF3. Not getting random stutter anymore.
Went from 4ghz 950 to 4.3ghz 4770k
Do you know theirs voltages?
I came from a Q9450 so jumping to Haswell was a massive upgrade. It's pretty shocking how much faster the 4770k is over what I had before...will probably get some pretty decent power savings as well. I can understand why people would be disappointed if they came from Ivy/Sandy though; high heat means there's no guarantee that your Haswell overclock will match the performance you were getting before.
NukeDukem
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Decided to take the plunge!
1x MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming Motherboard
1x Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor
1x Corsair Hydro Series H100i Water Cooler
1x G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900)
1x COOLER MASTER Storm Stryker SGC-5000W-KWN1 Black and White Steel ATX Full Tower
Computer Case
[H] review on 4770k says to get the most of Haswell you really need decent water cooling and I figured the H100i wouldnt fit my aging CM Stacker 830... so .... who needs to eat right?
It will be tough retiring my x58/1366 platform but I got 4 solid years out of her and hope I can get close to that with z87/1150!
1x MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming Motherboard
1x Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor
1x Corsair Hydro Series H100i Water Cooler
1x G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900)
1x COOLER MASTER Storm Stryker SGC-5000W-KWN1 Black and White Steel ATX Full Tower
Computer Case
[H] review on 4770k says to get the most of Haswell you really need decent water cooling and I figured the H100i wouldnt fit my aging CM Stacker 830... so .... who needs to eat right?
It will be tough retiring my x58/1366 platform but I got 4 solid years out of her and hope I can get close to that with z87/1150!
I came from an I7 920 so my viewpoint is from there. I wouldn't feel the need to upgrade if I had sandy, and definitely not if I had ivy bridge, but the 920 is long in the tooth now, not necessarily in terms of computing power, but in other ways.
The most noticeable differences I've come across so far are: power consumption/heat output. I realize that the cores get hot, but the sheer amount of heat they put out is nothing compared to what my 920 did on a regular basis. Even playing WoW that thing would heat my room up pretty quickly.
Sata 3 and USB 3 are both very nice as well, mostly sata 3 as it really helps the SSDs reach their full potential.
The overclocking ability is really lacking for specific chips it seems like though. Mine will only go to 4.2ghz @ 1.25 volts and a 4ghz ring bus, anything over that and prime95 (the one with AVX) just crushes it within minutes. There really is a surprising amount of difference between overclockability with these things. Some people are getting 4.6ghz out of 1.25 volts =/
I have no hard numbers but overall responsiveness is better (due to sata3 probably), and minimum frame rates are up just a tad in the not-so-cpu intensive games that I play, though I really am starting to think a reformat helped just as much as anything else.
Overall I'm happy with the upgrade in terms of differences, though the OC ability was quite a bit of a letdown.
The most noticeable differences I've come across so far are: power consumption/heat output. I realize that the cores get hot, but the sheer amount of heat they put out is nothing compared to what my 920 did on a regular basis. Even playing WoW that thing would heat my room up pretty quickly.
Sata 3 and USB 3 are both very nice as well, mostly sata 3 as it really helps the SSDs reach their full potential.
The overclocking ability is really lacking for specific chips it seems like though. Mine will only go to 4.2ghz @ 1.25 volts and a 4ghz ring bus, anything over that and prime95 (the one with AVX) just crushes it within minutes. There really is a surprising amount of difference between overclockability with these things. Some people are getting 4.6ghz out of 1.25 volts =/
I have no hard numbers but overall responsiveness is better (due to sata3 probably), and minimum frame rates are up just a tad in the not-so-cpu intensive games that I play, though I really am starting to think a reformat helped just as much as anything else.
Overall I'm happy with the upgrade in terms of differences, though the OC ability was quite a bit of a letdown.
Decided to take the plunge!
1x MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming Motherboard
1x Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor
1x Corsair Hydro Series H100i Water Cooler
1x G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900)
1x COOLER MASTER Storm Stryker SGC-5000W-KWN1 Black and White Steel ATX Full Tower
Computer Case
[H] review on 4770k says to get the most of Haswell you really need decent water cooling and I figured the H100i wouldnt fit my aging CM Stacker 830... so .... who needs to eat right?
It will be tough retiring my x58/1366 platform but I got 4 solid years out of her and hope I can get close to that with z87/1150!
Good choices! Great board.
Capt. Insano
Weaksauce
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Decided to take the plunge!
1x MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming Motherboard
1x Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor
1x Corsair Hydro Series H100i Water Cooler
1x G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900)
1x COOLER MASTER Storm Stryker SGC-5000W-KWN1 Black and White Steel ATX Full Tower
Computer Case
[H] review on 4770k says to get the most of Haswell you really need decent water cooling and I figured the H100i wouldnt fit my aging CM Stacker 830... so .... who needs to eat right?
It will be tough retiring my x58/1366 platform but I got 4 solid years out of her and hope I can get close to that with z87/1150!
I just bought virtually the same system this weekend. The MSI board is amazing but I went with a 4670 instead and the H100i. Came from a 2500 @ 4.5 GHz which died a couple of days ago after a year. So far, only running @ 4Ghz but will see what I can push this week.
I mostly play BF3 and have not seen any difference in FPS even running at -500Mhz compared to my old setup.
I play two games mainly, TF2 and Planetside 2. These are both entirely CPU-limited for me, as I have a GTX 680, and run 1080p at 120hz. The performance speedup, in terms of minimum observed FPS using the in-game FPS tool, between a 4GHz i7-930 and a 4.8GHz 4770k, is around 1.5x as far as Planetside goes. It used to dip into the 20's, and now stays 40 or above. I didn't get a fresh FPS measurement from TF2 before upgrading, but after upgrading it dips to 90fps, otherwise it hangs around 110-130 fps during battles. Outside of battles, TF2 sits at the 300fps cap. The i7-930 was getting noticeably slow in these battles.
These two games play much better on an overclocked 4770k versus an overclocked 930. The difference between the 20fps range and 40fps range is very noticeable in PS2. TF2 wasn't terribly slow on the 930, but the 4770k makes it flat-out fly, putting that 120hz monitor to work. But the majority of games out there are either GPU-limited, or get >120fps even on a 930, and that's what most reviews reflect.