Both consoles now are pay to play online

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kashifme21

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Goes without saying i think console gaming just entered another low:

- No BC - Meaning every game bought this gen doesnt work on the next box, You can either say farewell to all your games, keep buying the older console as it fails or buy HD remakes.

- DRM - Need to go online every 24 hours to carry on playing terrible.

- Overpriced - can make a PC for 500usd that will easily out do both these consoles. Specially they look a lot less performance for the money compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 when they launched

- No mods - meaning you need to buy expensive DLCs.

- Expensive games - 10-20usd more on games than PC versions, prices probably wont come down fast either, no super sales as we see on Steam or greenman gaming.

- 90% games released will be multiplats, exclusives will be few and far in between, even then PC has amazing exclusives of its own.

- PC has an insane games library - yes thats right new consoles are new match since PC has over 25 years of BC. Thousands of games from different generations covering every genre you can think of, not to mention emulation of just about every console ever released (except PS3 and Xbox 360). Meanwhile new consoles need to build a library from scratch.

Overall i think consoles just about lost every advantage they had to PC gaming. Consoles cost more now, have no games and are full of restrictions now.
 
kashifme21 said:
Goes without saying i think console gaming just entered another low:

- No BC - Meaning every game bought this gen doesnt work on the next box, You can either say farewell to all your games, keep buying the older console as it fails or buy HD remakes.

- DRM - Need to go online every 24 hours to carry on playing terrible.

- Overpriced - can make a PC for 500usd that will easily out do both these consoles. Specially they look a lot less performance for the money compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 when they launched

- No mods - meaning you need to buy expensive DLCs.

- Expensive games - 10-20usd more on games than PC versions, prices probably wont come down fast either, no super sales as we see on Steam or greenman gaming.

- 90% games released will be multiplats, exclusives will be few and far in between, even then PC has amazing exclusives of its own.

- PC has an insane games library - yes thats right new consoles are new match since PC has over 25 years of BC. Thousands of games from different generations covering every genre you can think of, not to mention emulation of just about every console ever released (except PS3 and Xbox 360). Meanwhile new consoles need to build a library from scratch.

Overall i think consoles just about lost every advantage they had to PC gaming. Consoles cost more now, have no games and are full of restrictions now.
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Worst of all, the best games coming out for them are also coming out for PC. I think I'll keep my Wii U and upgrade my PC, thank you very much.
 
Queue up all the idiots claiming that optimization will result in billions of extra frames.
 
kashifme21 said:
Goes without saying i think console gaming just entered another low:

- No BC - Meaning every game bought this gen doesnt work on the next box, You can either say farewell to all your games, keep buying the older console as it fails or buy HD remakes.

- DRM - Need to go online every 24 hours to carry on playing terrible.

- Overpriced - can make a PC for 500usd that will easily out do both these consoles. Specially they look a lot less performance for the money compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 when they launched

- No mods - meaning you need to buy expensive DLCs.

- Expensive games - 10-20usd more on games than PC versions, prices probably wont come down fast either, no super sales as we see on Steam or greenman gaming.

- 90% games released will be multiplats, exclusives will be few and far in between, even then PC has amazing exclusives of its own.

- PC has an insane games library - yes thats right new consoles are new match since PC has over 25 years of BC. Thousands of games from different generations covering every genre you can think of, not to mention emulation of just about every console ever released (except PS3 and Xbox 360). Meanwhile new consoles need to build a library from scratch.

Overall i think consoles just about lost every advantage they had to PC gaming. Consoles cost more now, have no games and are full of restrictions now.
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tumblr_ma9crmhzRF1rwebpno1_400.gif
 
You guys are always doom and gloom on here. They'll be fine for what they are and the audience they're intended for. Not everybody wants to fuck around with a PC when they just want to turn on and tune out.

I'll have one or the other eventually, but most likely a PS4 because: Gamefly. Microsoft has lost their damn minds, and they'll have to unfuck their crazy stance on Game Licenses before they'll get my business.

Also, optimization will result in billions of extra frames. So there's that.
 
kashifme21 said:
Goes without saying i think console gaming just entered another low:

- No BC - Meaning every game bought this gen doesnt work on the next box, You can either say farewell to all your games, keep buying the older console as it fails or buy HD remakes.

- DRM - Need to go online every 24 hours to carry on playing terrible.
Click to expand...

these 2 things are the only thing that even relates to the "new consoles".. everythign else in your post is pretty much console vs pc arguement. and the BC was even dealt with much with the PS3 and X360.. the PS3 having ditched BC after the initial run.

IMO if you have games on a console you keep that console, its been that way ever since the Atari 2600 days.

if it wasn't for the Playstation 2 spoiling us on BC, it would be a non-issue today.

as far as the online DRM, have to wait and see how that effects people, with steams always on DRM being very similar, i dont' see much of an uproar or issue.

What percentage of people actually use Steams offline mode all of the time? if you fail to go Offline with Steam, you cannot enter into Offline mode after you internet connection is lost.. so in essense steam has already introduced this type of model except for the extreme few users who run steam in an exculsive offline mode. The only difference beign that with Steam if you know you are going to be offline for a while, you can enter an offline mode. (i have used this for my traveling laptop, and for my desktop PC during ISP changes)
 
H-street said:
these 2 things are the only thing that even relates to the "new consoles".. everythign else in your post is pretty much console vs pc arguement. and the BC was even dealt with much with the PS3 and X360.. the PS3 having ditched BC after the initial run.

IMO if you have games on a console you keep that console, its been that way ever since the Atari 2600 days.

if it wasn't for the Playstation 2 spoiling us on BC, it would be a non-issue today.

as far as the online DRM, have to wait and see how that effects people, with steams always on DRM being very similar, i dont' see much of an uproar or issue.

What percentage of people actually use Steams offline mode all of the time? if you fail to go Offline with Steam, you cannot enter into Offline mode after you internet connection is lost.. so in essense steam has already introduced this type of model except for the extreme few users who run steam in an exculsive offline mode. The only difference beign that with Steam if you know you are going to be offline for a while, you can enter an offline mode. (i have used this for my traveling laptop, and for my desktop PC during ISP changes)
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Sony said at the Conference last night that the Gaikai service will be streaming PS3 games to the PS4. Wouldn't it be cool, if you could put in your PS3 games into the PS4... the PS4 could read the discs and then eject the disc, add it to your Gaikai account/PS Account and then stream your old PS3 games through Gaikai without having to repurchase them? But then the problem remains on how to avoid people buying games, activating them on Gaikai and then returning them... Idk... just a thought. lol. :p
 
But then the problem remains on how to avoid people buying games, activating them on Gaikai and then returning them... Idk
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The bigger problem is services like gamefly, rentals, and your friends. Buying and returning would never be that big of a deal, as most stores already have policies against that.

However, the problem is easily addressable: it will only play with the disk in the drive.
 
I keep hearing about this $500 PC that is way better than the new consoles. I'd like to see a components list for this PC.
 
Eradan said:
I keep hearing about this $500 PC that is way better than the new consoles. I'd like to see a components list for this PC.
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Same. I love gaming on my pc, but it sure as hell wasn't $500. After buying an OS, you're left with a little less than $400 to actually buy components. That's going to be tight trying to fit components to game at decent settings. And by "decent settings" I mean settings that are actually noticeably better than what the PS4 can do at 1080p...otherwise it's a pointless argument.
 
PS Plus was one of the best purchases I made for my PS3. I have a ton of games I got for free from it.

Honestly, if they keep their same model, I don't think too many people will be complaining about the $60/year they spend on it.
 
kashifme21 said:
Goes without saying i think console gaming just entered another low:

- No BC - Meaning every game bought this gen doesnt work on the next box, You can either say farewell to all your games, keep buying the older console as it fails or buy HD remakes.

- DRM - Need to go online every 24 hours to carry on playing terrible.

- Overpriced - can make a PC for 500usd that will easily out do both these consoles. Specially they look a lot less performance for the money compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 when they launched

- No mods - meaning you need to buy expensive DLCs.

- Expensive games - 10-20usd more on games than PC versions, prices probably wont come down fast either, no super sales as we see on Steam or greenman gaming.

- 90% games released will be multiplats, exclusives will be few and far in between, even then PC has amazing exclusives of its own.

- PC has an insane games library - yes thats right new consoles are new match since PC has over 25 years of BC. Thousands of games from different generations covering every genre you can think of, not to mention emulation of just about every console ever released (except PS3 and Xbox 360). Meanwhile new consoles need to build a library from scratch.

Overall i think consoles just about lost every advantage they had to PC gaming. Consoles cost more now, have no games and are full of restrictions now.
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Where did you hear all this? From what I hear PS4 is going to have some backward compatibility and that it's not going to require online at all...
 
PS4 will have BC via Gaikai game streaming, but it won't be available at launch. This requires Internet and possibly PS+

PS4 games will not require Internet in any form to play single player games.

Hope that clears this up.
 
JohnleMVP said:
$500 gaming PC. Funny. A decent video card cost $200.
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Yeah. A $500 PC will blow current-gen consoles away but that amount of money will struggle against a PS4 or Xbox One, especially with the optimisations that come with those uniform platforms.
 
You get more than $500 if you consider the cost to play online over the console's life and the fact that games are a minimum of $10 cheaper across the board. I'd say 800-1000 is fair when you factor those in and at that price point it's no contest.
 
Show me a PC with equal performance to these consoles. You will be surprised how tough it is to get anything close.

$800-$1000 is what you need.

You get more than $500 if you consider the cost to play online over the console's life and the fact that games are a minimum of $10 cheaper across the board. I'd say 800-1000 is fair when you factor those in and at that price point it's no contest.
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Makes sense, but you also have to put that money UP FRONT. Not spread it out over 7-8 years.
 
XvMMvX said:
Show me a PC with equal performance to these consoles. You will be surprised how tough it is to get anything close.

$800-$1000 is what you need.



Makes sense, but you also have to put that money UP FRONT. Not spread it out over 7-8 years.
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Linked is a PC that costs 600usd as of today and comes equipped with a HD 7850. Which would easily out do the Xbox One specs, and will rival the PS4.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pc-gaming-overclock-build-a-pc,3443.html

Now remember PS4 and Xbox one are still 5-6 months away. Much more powerful hardware will be way cheaper by then. Which would mean its not out of the question to build a PC that out does the next consoles.

Now you may tell me console optimization blah blah blah, We all saw what optimization did for the consoles this gen. Optimization on console at best equals lowering resolutions, textures, blurry AA. An 8800GTX which launched just by the current consoles is about 2.5x in theory, and when you look at it in the real world, 8800GTX even today plays most games in 1080p medium settings. Mean while current consoles play most games at 720p low settings. Hence the real world difference is about 2x the difference. Which begs to question if consoles were so efficent and optimized why couldnt they perform closer to a 6 year old 8800GTX.

Also remember these consoles arent as reliable as previously used to be since they are like mini PC built up in restrictive boxes. Hence have a inherent high failure rate chance. While a well built PC will easily last 5 years, A console will be hard to survive 3 years without replacement (nevermind all the extra charges per game or the charges to go online or the fact it cant play any of your older games the PC can).

Lastly remember the PC is a long term investment, the cost of the PC can be very different for people. A person who is already into PC gaming wont need to buy Casing, DVD drive, Hard drives, mouse, keyboard etc. Some may not even need to buy New CPU, Motherboard, RAM etc they may only need a GPU upgrade thats all (which is way cheaper than getting a console).

Now consider maintainance should the console fail and the warranty is out, you need to replace the entire box or pay a heft fee for repairs. Not the same on PC, You have huge warranties on PC, plus if anything fails its not like the entire box will be trashed. You only replace what is needed.

I could draw up several other reasons, bottomline is PC is much more cost effective. It was in this current gen and with all the restrictions introduced it seems to be even more competitive next gen.
 
The $500 PC is a myth...at least one during a console refresh. You might be able to squeeze something out that can do 720p/30 right now, but certainly not PS4 or Xbox 1 caliber. Spec-wise you might match them, but not in real world apples to apples performance. You might have something that looks better in stills, but performance on a PC and always will be a weird up and down situation with spikes and valleys in your framerates. I suppose I blame variable hardware.
Plus, even though we're all familiar with it - not a lot of people want to actually bother with all of the intangibles of PC games.
Things like drivers, massive config menus featuring terms that aren't always obvious, patches to even make games work, bugs, etc.
There will always be a place for something you can just plug in and have it work.
I have friends that have the money for a PC and aren't idiots, but just don't want to bother. It's easier for their kids and friends to connect with something simpler.
 
A lot of those advantages only apply if you are a pc gamer/enthusiast, know how to shop/build a pc from parts, upgrade, maintain etc.

The market for consoles is completely different - its an appliance they buy, plug into their tv, and for the next 5 years it will play any game with great graphics, without needing to upgrade anything. You also get a wireless controller and the comfort of your couch, ability to play with friends etc.

PC gamers care about graphics, most people really don't. From your perspective pc gaming is a much better value, and that's a perfectly valid point. From the pov of many others, its the exact opposite.
 
kashifme21 said:
Goes without saying i think console gaming just entered another low:

- No BC - Meaning every game bought this gen doesnt work on the next box, You can either say farewell to all your games, keep buying the older console as it fails or buy HD remakes.
Click to expand...

Why is this a problem? Not like most of consoles had backwards compatibility or you needed an add-on to do it.

- DRM - Need to go online every 24 hours to carry on playing terrible.
Click to expand...

we have similar things on the PC.

- Overpriced - can make a PC for 500usd that will easily out do both these consoles. Specially they look a lot less performance for the money compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 when they launched
Click to expand...

Good luck making a gaming PC at $500 and is worth a damn

- No mods - meaning you need to buy expensive DLCs.
Click to expand...

Normal for consoles.

- Expensive games - 10-20usd more on games than PC versions, prices probably wont come down fast either, no super sales as we see on Steam or greenman gaming.
Click to expand...

PC games aren't nessessarily cheaper but they do have the advantage of ssales

- 90% games released will be multiplats, exclusives will be few and far in between, even then PC has amazing exclusives of its own.
Click to expand...

Normal

- PC has an insane games library - yes thats right new consoles are new match since PC has over 25 years of BC. Thousands of games from different generations covering every genre you can think of, not to mention emulation of just about every console ever released (except PS3 and Xbox 360). Meanwhile new consoles need to build a library from scratch.
Click to expand...

BC comes in the form of a third party application anyway (think DOSbox) and it doesn't guarantee BC. You just happen to get emulation, which is questionably at best in terms of content being legal for you to have unless you own the original.

Overall i think consoles just about lost every advantage they had to PC gaming. Consoles cost more now, have no games and are full of restrictions now.
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I don't think it has changed. Consoles will stay the biggest player in the gaming market. PCs still have a stigma associated with them as being the dork in moms basement and having to sometimes deal with issues like drivers and what not. Consoles are huge because it is plug and play.
 
kashifme21 said:
Overpriced - can make a PC for 500usd that will easily out do both these consoles. Specially they look a lot less performance for the money compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 when they launched

Overall i think consoles just about lost every advantage they had to PC gaming.
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PC games are not an option for millions of people, including gamers. Get off your high horse and don't act like everyone cares about pc games.

For a LOT of people, the choice is - which console. Not - pc or console.
 
Eradan said:
I keep hearing about this $500 PC that is way better than the new consoles. I'd like to see a components list for this PC.
Click to expand...

Intel 2500K -- $220
ASRock Z77 -- $84.99
Vengeance 8 GB -- $66
WD RE3 1TB SATA 6 -- $55
Rosewill ATX Case & 500W PSU -- $70

$4 leftover to buy a Video Card so I failed to buy a "new" set of components with which to make a "500 PC that is way better than the new consoles"


However...These are prices for "new" parts.

I just sold the following system to one of the sailors on my base:

MSI AX-A85 Socket FM2 motherboard
AMD A10-5800K
Coolermaster Hyper 212EVO Heatsink
Corsair Carbide 300R Case
Corsair TX-850 modular PSU
16GB Kingston HyperX Beast 2133MHZ DDR3
Sapphire Radeon HD7970 Video Card
Corsair Force GT 480GB SSD

$450

Sure...it's not a high end gaming monster machine, but it'll stomp the fetus right outta the XB1's womb
 
notarat said:
Intel 2500K -- $220
ASRock Z77 -- $84.99
Vengeance 8 GB -- $66
WD RE3 1TB SATA 6 -- $55
Rosewill ATX Case & 500W PSU -- $70

$4 leftover to buy a Video Card so I failed to buy a "new" set of components with which to make a "500 PC that is way better than the new consoles"


However...These are prices for "new" parts.

I just sold the following system to one of the sailors on my base:

MSI AX-A85 Socket FM2 motherboard
AMD A10-5800K
Coolermaster Hyper 212EVO Heatsink
Corsair Carbide 300R Case
Corsair TX-850 modular PSU
16GB Kingston HyperX Beast 2133MHZ DDR3
Sapphire Radeon HD7970 Video Card
Corsair Force GT 480GB SSD

$450

Sure...it's not a high end gaming monster machine, but it'll stomp the fetus right outta the XB1's womb
Click to expand...

Hilarious. Put me down for one of your $450 systems. :rolleyes:
 
notarat said:
I just sold the following system to one of the sailors on my base:

MSI AX-A85 Socket FM2 motherboard
AMD A10-5800K
Coolermaster Hyper 212EVO Heatsink
Corsair Carbide 300R Case
Corsair TX-850 modular PSU
16GB Kingston HyperX Beast 2133MHZ DDR3
Sapphire Radeon HD7970 Video Card
Corsair Force GT 480GB SSD

$450

Sure...it's not a high end gaming monster machine, but it'll stomp the fetus right outta the XB1's womb
Click to expand...

LOL ok 480GB SSD and 7970 for $450. You hooked him up.
 
kashifme21 said:
Goes without saying i think console gaming just entered another low:
Click to expand...

No, not really

- No BC - Meaning every game bought this gen doesnt work on the next box, You can either say farewell to all your games, keep buying the older console as it fails or buy HD remakes.
Click to expand...

Strange that Nintendo seems to make consoles that last a very long time....

- DRM - Need to go online every 24 hours to carry on playing terrible.
Click to expand...

Microsoft only

- Overpriced - can make a PC for 500usd that will easily out do both these consoles. Specially they look a lot less performance for the money compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 when they launched
Click to expand...

No you can't even without a monitor you need

OS, typically $100
CPU tpyically $150 -200
MB Typically $50-70
HDD $100
Controller $30+ each for GOOD ONES
Video card to game at 1080p now you need at least a 7870 for Nvidia equivilent $230
KB Mouse to run PC $20 (if you want to match PS4 specs on graphical power)

- No mods - meaning you need to buy expensive DLCs.

- Expensive games - 10-20usd more on games than PC versions, prices probably wont come down fast either, no super sales as we see on Steam or greenman gaming.

- 90% games released will be multiplats, exclusives will be few and far in between, even then PC has amazing exclusives of its own.

- PC has an insane games library - yes thats right new consoles are new match since PC has over 25 years of BC. Thousands of games from different generations covering every genre you can think of, not to mention emulation of just about every console ever released (except PS3 and Xbox 360). Meanwhile new consoles need to build a library from scratch.

Overall i think consoles just about lost every advantage they had to PC gaming. Consoles cost more now, have no games and are full of restrictions now.
Click to expand...

While I will agree that most of the above part of the quote is true

PS4 is $400 so I know that you are not building a PC for that to compete with it or lay waste to it...as for BC no one cares really as your can still use your PS3 and 360 to play your games
 
XvMMvX said:
Show me a PC with equal performance to these consoles. You will be surprised how tough it is to get anything close.

$800-$1000 is what you need.



Makes sense, but you also have to put that money UP FRONT. Not spread it out over 7-8 years.
Click to expand...

anything above an i3 and a Radeon 7850 will dominate either up coming console....
 
JohnleMVP said:
LOL ok 480GB SSD and 7970 for $450. You hooked him up.
Click to expand...

Yes. I did.

Then I sold him my 1.5yr old Dell U3011 for $450 as well.

I currently have the two Gigabyte W3 Radeon HD7970s I bought in April 2013 and used for only 2 weeks in the Want Ads for $250 each even though they sell on Amazon for $449 each.

I hook up the military when I can.
 
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