NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Screes said:
You don't think these will be shipping in the next 2 months? What's the hold up? I thought everything was basically done.
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It is all about logistics.

There is the issue of the second prototype being made and sent to reviewers (not sure if this is still going to happen).

Then there is the production campaign. (probably 28 days)

Then the time it takes to get the funds wired to accounts and cleared. (several days)

Then a wire transfer to the manufacturer. (several days)

Then there is the actual production of the cases. (a week or more)

Shipping of the cases (if shipping by cargo ship to the US 10-14 days)

Reshipping of the cases to individual buyers.

Basically, the case design may be final(and that hasn't even been said yet), but there are lot more steps and honestly unless they get the production campaign going soon I can easily see it slipping to September.
 
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wreckem said:
It is all about logistics.

There is the issue of the second prototype being made and sent to reviewers (not sure if this is still going to happen).

Then there is the production campaign. (probably 28 days)

Then the time it takes to get the funds wired to accounts and cleared. (several days)

Then a wire transfer to the manufacturer. (several days)

Then there is the actual production of the cases. (a week or more)

Shipping of the cases (if shipping by cargo ship to the US 10-14 days)

Reshipping of the cases to individual buyers.

Basically, the case design may be final(and that hasn't even been said yet), but there are lot more steps and honestly unless they get the production campaign going soon I can easily see it slipping to September.
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Yea i thought he said design was done, and i thought I saw him say they were doing the production campaign next. According to the time table you laid out, that would put shipments starting in about 7 weeks. Which sounds about right to me.
 
Screes said:
Yea i thought he said design was done, and i thought I saw him say they were doing the production campaign next. According to the time table you laid out, that would put shipments starting in about 7 weeks. Which sounds about right to me.
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What?

4 weeks of kickstarter/indiegogo.
1 week for the money to go back and forth.
2 weeks production
2-3 weeks shipping by boat.
1 week packaging the cases individually.
1 week to actually ship the final cases.

All in all, 11 weeks, provided the kickstarter campaign started TOMORROW. Just look at how long it took for NCASE to get their prototype on their hands. The indiegogo campaign finished on the 3/15, and the prototype was first shown a few weeks afterwards, and it didn't get to the USA until much later.

Still, I don't think anybody wants to rush anything. I'd rather wait an extra quarter, than miss something on the case and then got an imperfect product, specially at the price point.
 
Screes said:
You don't think these will be shipping in the next 2 months? What's the hold up? I thought everything was basically done.
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Production crowdfunding campaign will take a little over a month. Production = some weeks, shipping = 2+ weeks.

Right now I'm still trying to get everything straight with LL for the preproduction sample: make sure they get all the changes right, the specifics for the logo and serial, etc. I also have to get the IGG campaign written up (and despite my occasional propensity for verbosity here on the forum, writing is not my strong suit), and finish the renders for that. Oh, and finalize the backer reward levels.

It's a lot of decisions, big and small, and I want to make sure it gets done right (or as right as possible). As the creative and technical guy behind the project, it's a lot of stuff to deal with. W360's job for much of this has been asking me for progress updates. If he had his way, the campaign would be up right now - but it would be copy+pasted from the current campaign, which I had to veto. He's the one always pushing to get it done, get it out. I need time to reflect on things. I also have to admit that my capacity for productivity has not been entirely conducive to meeting the deadlines he likes to set.

The bottom line is that it's both a creative, technical, and management endeavor that both of us are new to, and there's a certain degree of learn-as-you-go involved. We're committed to seeing it through, but it's just going to take as long as it takes.
 
Necere said:
This was the problem I ran into with the idea. It would've added a lot of complexity and resulted in some less than ideal solutions.

At this point, an August ship date is unlikely.

Going by the specs it shouldn't have a problem fitting.

This, although using an ATX PSU can't be recommended. The amount and length of cables that ATX PSUs typically have just make it too much of a headache trying to stuff it all into the case. If you're going to shorten the cables, fine. Just know what you're getting into.
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ah :/ what are some solid ITX and mATX cases that I could get instead?
 
Necere said:
We're committed to seeing it through, but it's just going to take as long as it takes.
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I'm sure you like everyone else here has a life outside this forum, so take all the time you need to ensure your "baby" delivers on all levels. For me personally there is no problem if this case arrives for Christmas. Allot of people are forgetting that haswell has just been released and a few months of other people trying and testing it won't hurt. The same goes for asus rog m-itx. Let it be released and a few months in the hands of the testers and then we'll build our m1 with the most reliable of configurations. And I'm still hoping for two other hardware components to be announced, the new sfx psu from silverstonetek and the much rumored Titan ultra. I wanna build my m1, close the panel and never think about upgrading it for at least a couple of years.
 
Fa11acy said:
ah :/ what are some solid ITX and mATX cases that I could get instead?
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With full size (long+modular) ATX PSU capability? The smallest i know of is the mATX Antec NSK3480, (14" x 13.75" x 7.75"), but its been discontinued. Everything else is going to be bigger than that.


Necere said:
Production crowdfunding campaign will take a little over a month. Production = some weeks, shipping = 2+ weeks.

Right now I'm still trying to get everything straight with LL for the preproduction sample: make sure they get all the changes right, the specifics for the logo and serial, etc. I also have to get the IGG campaign written up (and despite my occasional propensity for verbosity here on the forum, writing is not my strong suit), and finish the renders for that. Oh, and finalize the backer reward levels.

It's a lot of decisions, big and small, and I want to make sure it gets done right (or as right as possible). As the creative and technical guy behind the project, it's a lot of stuff to deal with. W360's job for much of this has been asking me for progress updates. If he had his way, the campaign would be up right now - but it would be copy+pasted from the current campaign, which I had to veto. He's the one always pushing to get it done, get it out. I need time to reflect on things. I also have to admit that my capacity for productivity has not been entirely conducive to meeting the deadlines he likes to set.

The bottom line is that it's both a creative, technical, and management endeavor that both of us are new to, and there's a certain degree of learn-as-you-go involved. We're committed to seeing it through, but it's just going to take as long as it takes.
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Thank you for that. I really wasnt trying to be rude, just very curious about all the things that go on in the background that dont come up on the forum.

So i should be thanking Wahaha for keeping that fire under your butt lit huh? :p
 
Screes said:
With full size (long+modular) ATX PSU capability? The smallest i know of is the mATX Antec NSK3480, (14" x 13.75" x 7.75"), but its been discontinued. Everything else is going to be bigger than that.
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wait are ATX psu's compatible with mATX and mini-ITX motherboards?

im okay with bigger cases, but im not sure of the 350d is too big
 
Fa11acy said:
wait are ATX psu's compatible with mATX and mini-ITX motherboards?

im okay with bigger cases, but im not sure of the 350d is too big
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Yes, they all use the same atx standards, just different size boards.
 
After posting for the first time earlier today, I'm reading things like "extra quarter" and "its just going to take as long as it takes" and "arrives for Christmas". Lets keep in mind that these days, many people buy their bits in the "black Friday to cyber Monday" time-frame.

I mean no offense to anyone. I would, however, like to know if the case is going to be available to folks like me (folks that didn't know about the case in the first round, and therefore did not donate), during or prior to the extended Thanksgiving weekend.
 
Fa11acy said:
could you compare the 350d to other mATX cases? it seems big but I like it. The ncase m1 would'nt house an mATX mobo either right?
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Nope, this is an ITX case. Best to keep mATX case discussion in your other thread about this subject.
 
sleepies said:
After posting for the first time earlier today, I'm reading things like "extra quarter" and "its just going to take as long as it takes" and "arrives for Christmas". Lets keep in mind that these days, many people buy their bits in the "black Friday to cyber Monday" time-frame.

I mean no offense to anyone. I would, however, like to know if the case is going to be available to folks like me (folks that didn't know about the case in the first round, and therefore did not donate), during or prior to the extended Thanksgiving weekend.
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I certainly don't anticipate it taking anything like that long. I think we should have a better idea of the timeframe as the changes are finalized and the production campaign goes live, which should be this week.
 
Appreciate the quick reply. Given your response, I'm definitely in. Love the concept of this project - and am happy to pay a bit extra to get a great case, as well as support the concept.

I hope you guys enjoying it. I'd love to see more of this in the future.
 
Necere, is there room to install two 3.5 inch hdds on the bottom of the case using another hard drive mount and the 120mm fan holes? From my calculations there is space without any cards installed (3 x 0.8in = 2.4in). Depending on the space below the bottom slot, spacing for the drives in the mount, and the thickness of the card it may also fit with a single 'thin' card. Can you confirm? This would allow the case to support 24TB of 3.5 hdd and possibly a quad port Intel NIC, with two 92mm fans.

Have you thought anymore about allowing the purchase of additional hdd mounts during the production campaign?
 
sleepies said:
After posting for the first time earlier today, I'm reading things like "extra quarter" and "its just going to take as long as it takes" and "arrives for Christmas". Lets keep in mind that these days, many people buy their bits in the "black Friday to cyber Monday" time-frame.

I mean no offense to anyone. I would, however, like to know if the case is going to be available to folks like me (folks that didn't know about the case in the first round, and therefore did not donate), during or prior to the extended Thanksgiving weekend.
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You gotta realise this case ain't for "many people". Unless something changes, there will probably be just one production campaign, and you either get it there or you don't get the case at all.

Which is the reason you can't treat it like a normal product, and the black Friday is of little consequence (let alone such day is common in USA and UK, not the rest of the world).

illli said:
by the time this is all finished Necere will have aged 30 years.
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If anything by the bazillion questions asked hahaha.
 
adamantium said:
Necere, is there room to install two 3.5 inch hdds on the bottom of the case using another hard drive mount and the 120mm fan holes? From my calculations there is space without any cards installed (3 x 0.8in = 2.4in). Depending on the space below the bottom slot, spacing for the drives in the mount, and the thickness of the card it may also fit with a single 'thin' card. Can you confirm? This would allow the case to support 24TB of 3.5 hdd and possibly a quad port Intel NIC, with two 92mm fans.

Have you thought anymore about allowing the purchase of additional hdd mounts during the production campaign?
Click to expand...
Right, you asked this earlier. I had intended to answer, but I must've been distracted and forgot. Sorry about that.

So the 3.5" HDD bracket is designed for the fan bracket only and won't work on the bottom for two reasons: 1.) it's offset from the fan mount in order to clear the motherboard area, but this means the side panel clips are in the way on the bottom; 2.) it would raise the drives up too much to use even a very thin expansion card.

That said, if you rigged up some other way to set another drive on top of the bottom 3.5 HDD (e.g., some simple side brackets, like for the 2.5" drives, or double-sided tape), it should fit with a thin single-slot card. I admit I didn't really consider the possibility that anyone would want to cram six 3.5" HDDs into the case.

I don't think extra drive cages are popular enough to make a separate tier on the IGG campaign, and at this time I can't really say if we'll offer extras in the future. I'll keep it in mind though.
 
Im sure there will be people throwing their 3.5" hard drive bracket away, you could ask once cases start shipping to people if you could pay for them to send it to you instead. I know my bracket will likely end up in the trash. I might even be tossing the fan bracket too, we'll see.
 
Having had a quick search into ITX builds with Haswell out and came across this only yesterday since I haven't built a PC for myself in pretty much 5 years.

Have now read all 167 pages with delight and had to sign up to post. I am really excited to see this come about the build and am looking forward to seeing the next phase.

With the everything that has been happening, have we an update yet on when the pre-production unit is being produced and if anyone has confirmed a review/test. May I also suggest talking to Overclock3D and Tom Logan (site owner/reviewer) as he generally has some fun and interesting insight with great feedback.

Anyways, all details look great. I am probably going to remove the M1 logo's but like the NCASE detail at the front. Looks smart and clean with well thought out lines.

Would you/are you willing to release the Sketch-up models for us to play with at a later date. I wouldn't mind getting a few custom parts made later from a local fabricator. Different right panel that includes basic SSD mounts. Personal option for cable management and cleaner looks in this instance that I am sure most won't want need so won't suggest anything to change now.

Different bracket position for SFX power supply to allow a custom WC loop which I wouldn't mind trying out in Sketch up also.

Anyways all the best with the future and look forward to the next major update.

Kind Regards.
 
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A few other items I was wanting to talk about but forgot since reading through so much are;

1. That rear screw in the roof. I really don't believe it is needed and think it detracts more aesthetically than the slot load ever has on the case. It is not used in the case labs cases for instance that use the same roof style and I believe that it would be better without it.

If someone pulls the lid from the front without remembering that the screw is in then they are more likely to bend the alloy sheet than anything else. At least if it just pops of it wouldn't get damaged. I don't anticipate anyone would pick such a small case up from the roof. They are likely to lift it from the bottom since hands can easily fit under the bottom due to the feet design and the compact case size.

2. I personally preferred but also believe that a logical choice was to have the SSD mounts at the front positioned to one side as your first prototype so that they could mounted higher next to the SFX using your brackets. I know you mounted them on the lower position in your build, probably due to the cable management but if the top of the SSD lined up with the top of the PSU you could make some very neat cable routing right there. You would need to use 90 degree connectors but that wouldn't be a problem.

3. How much would you have to increase the depth of the front bezel to fit the 2 SSD's in the front as a pair using your brackets? It appears to be no more than a 2mm which I honestly believe would be beneficial for such a small change (plus it goes from 328mm to 330mm) and keep the inside of the case free from really needing any of SSD mounted as well as needing no reason to 3M tape or velcro them to the front which is my current solution to keeping the front clean. I don't really see many people running more than 2 SSD although you could fit up to 4 with a 3M/Velcro solution if someone really wanted to.

4. Have you found that you really need to have 6 pins horizontal and a further 2 pins vertical to hold the side panels of the case on? If you only had the 4 in the corners it would save manufacturing costs and keep a clean line along the edges of the case which would suit cable management better EDIT: and maybe allow slightly different fan, rad or maybe even a pump/res positioning, even if they have to drill their own mount holes.

5. Where the cut out is to allow the PSU cable more room to bend (I assume that is all it is there for), could this be lengthened towards RH case side to allow cables to run across the top of the PSU. Thinking people who will place 2-4 SSD in front may need a little more room to keep cables tidier.

Have you confirmed black or silver feet? I personally like the stealth black finish compared to silver but didn't no if this had been confirmed. I did skim read a few posts on way through so this may have been mentioned so sorry if it has already.

Am also sorry for the long posts. Just trying to figure a few things out that may work to everyone's advantage and seeing how much I may need to get fabricated myself if I use your case as a starting point to do some nice custom parts to make it stand out from the other M1's that will be out there.

Kind Regards.
 
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Curly the case is going into production in the next couple of weeks and as far as I can deduce the design is pretty much finalized, unfortunately you have joined this forum a little to late for input :(.

Necere, now that the case has ventilation holes on both panels will the SFF PSU face the other way, such that it gets air directly from outside the case?
 
Cheers for the input but from the last comments it appeared that Necere was finalising with LL and all of what I mentioned are only really minimal points to what is happening and certainly won't cost more.

If anything would make production cheaper on a few of the points I have made.

It was also the 2nd proto/silver one for review that should be finalised and then sent to the person who put 2k into the original proto etc.

And yes my understanding is you can face the PSU the other way. He has even done a small cut out to make sure the power cable fits.
 
One of the nice things about this long developement is that by the time it does get into buyer's hand (my thought is Fall) we will see some good Haswell CPUs (out now) and some new Haswell mobos (just now releasing with some nicer ones expected this Summer). Assuming price isnt too high I plan to buy two because having an extra is going to be nice. This case is going to be a one time production run instant classic. :D
 
What I would like to see if they are not going to follow on in the future is having the design freely available for people in the future. Maybe not with all the details but just the shell.

It would be reasonably costly but any metal sheet fabricating company could realistically build the case and you would need to just get a custom I/O done.

More of what is needed from my research though is really good SFX psu around 600w. Looking at details and people talking about the Titan, the equivalent ATI i.e. the HD7990 takes allot more power especially clocked.
 
So has anyone completely figured out how to use a dedicated sound card in the 3rd expansion slot with a haswell motherboard? What motherboard would you use, what mini pcie extender/converter would you use, how would you mount that that extender?
 
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Can we see some updated renders :)?
Also for the production campaign is there any chance you guys can make a tier for priority shipment? This would make the difference whether or not I get to set up and play with my pc before uni starts :p .
 
I think Necere already made changes to fit 2x SSD's under the front bezel.
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I believe you can fit 2 in the front based on what he stated but only if you 3M/Velcro them. The picture showing the two mounted with the brackets at the front he stated don't work although I can't remember if I read that correct and which page it was on now.

My current plan is the Asrock Z87E but the 3rd slot I am thinking about using for my WC loop. Tube res mounted on back and D5 in the case. I don't think I will use the extra features of the ROG board although it looks good and maybe I will just cause it seems like I should to give a cool black/red build. I like things to match and be as aesthetically pleasing also.

In all honesty if I could have the same layout but make it 50mm taller and wider I would just so I can do the loop I really want but this will make it a fun challenge and something slightly different hopefully.
 
Thanks for the response. I saw the offset and wasn't sure if there would be a problem. I thought about the SSD bracket approach too, which is what lead me to ask. You've done an outstanding job on the design as is.
 
cookiePlant said:
Can we see some updated renders :)?
Also for the production campaign is there any chance you guys can make a tier for priority shipment? This would make the difference whether or not I get to set up and play with my pc before uni starts :p .
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Buy a cheap $20 case, set up your PC with parts that would fit into the Ncase (maybe with exception of the power supply), when you get it, move it over and dump the case.
 
Also the other reason I am advocating small changes so late is that we have seen LL take the concept that is here in their own way, so W360 & Necere are going to need to push harder to distinguish their case and keep those innovations/details ahead.

Although interest etc would seem to show that they should be selling around 1k No. of units it is more about innovation and being that step ahead.
 
Curlyriff said:
A few other items I was wanting to talk about but forgot since reading through so much are;

1. That rear screw in the roof. I really don't believe it is needed and think it detracts more aesthetically than the slot load ever has on the case. It is not used in the case labs cases for instance that use the same roof style and I believe that it would be better without it.

If someone pulls the lid from the front without remembering that the screw is in then they are more likely to bend the alloy sheet than anything else. At least if it just pops of it wouldn't get damaged. I don't anticipate anyone would pick such a small case up from the roof. They are likely to lift it from the bottom since hands can easily fit under the bottom due to the feet design and the compact case size.
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It's actually pretty difficult to remove the front panel with the top panel on, so it's quite unlikely you'd have the top panel on and screwed in without the front also on. The top panel is more susceptible to bending when removing it and the screw helps it keep its shape. Without it the end of the panel can feel a little loose.

Curlyriff said:
2. I personally preferred but also believe that a logical choice was to have the SSD mounts at the front positioned to one side as your first prototype so that they could mounted higher next to the SFX using your brackets.

3. How much would you have to increase the depth of the front bezel to fit the 2 SSD's in the front as a pair using your brackets?
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I moved the SSD mount to the center to make it possible to use the bracket to stack two drives (though limited to 7mm thick).

Curlyriff said:
4. Have you found that you really need to have 6 pins horizontal and a further 2 pins vertical to hold the side panels of the case on?
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I can tell you the panels fit pretty securely this way. I don't particularly want to chance any panel vibration that might happen with fewer/more widely spaced clips.

Curlyriff said:
5. Where the cut out is to allow the PSU cable more room to bend (I assume that is all it is there for), could this be lengthened towards RH case side to allow cables to run across the top of the PSU.
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One of the screws for the SFX bracket would be in the way. You can always mod it if you need to. Aluminum is easy enough to cut.

Curlyriff said:
Have you confirmed black or silver feet?
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Black.


I'd rather not change anything else at this point without having a good reason for it. Every change requires their engineers to change the drawings, and I've already submitted what I told them was basically the final CAD model from our end. I'm now just waiting for them to finish the drawings so I can verify everything.

cookiePlant said:
Necere, now that the case has ventilation holes on both panels will the SFF PSU face the other way, such that it gets air directly from outside the case?
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Yes, it can be turned either way.

cookiePlant said:
Also for the production campaign is there any chance you guys can make a tier for priority shipment?
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No plans to do this. Wouldn't be fair to our early backers anyway.
 
Thanks for all the replies, all makes sense. And yeah I will be modding it anyway's. Was trying to understand some further details.

Apologise about the SSD, the way it was written made it sound like it would catch the front of the case still. All is good there then.

Is there any way to get the Sketch up file to play with so I can see what I need to change to get my design to work.
 
WiSK said:
I'm guessing you might be thinking of Linus' video review? He erroneously used Noctua low-noise-adapters on the Helix fans, reducing the voltage to 7V whereby the fans were running at only 600rpm. In his comparison, he championed some Noctua fans which run with the low-noise-adapter at 1100rpm. Linus later apologised for his mistake and re-ran his tests with the Helix fans at 1100rpm and showed only a few degrees difference in performance. Unfortunately if you search for 'h220 review' then the video with the mistake still comes up first.

Incidentally MartinsLiquidLab did a full review of the H220 and found that at full speed using push-pull, Gentle Typhoons (GT15) and Helix fans only show a 1 degree difference in core temps.

If you do find the links to reviews which dispute this, I'd be interested to read them :)
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@WiSK:
You are correct sir, it was Linus and i could've sworn there was another... but for the life of me i cannot remember where.

Regardless, it'd be interesting to see different fans to be fair.

@Necere:
I know you are flattered and all about Lian Li possibly ninja-ing your designs but...
Claim some credit here man...
You made a miniature case with a well thought out design and it'd be shameful if people were oblivious to that fact.

Credit goes where it's due and i feel you should not be hesitant to take it.
 
By "priority shipment" I literally meant priority shipment at the post office, not in the sense that our cases get shipped first, but instead that when they do get shipped they get shipped with priority mail instead of normal :p.
 
EvilDeffy said:
@Necere:
I know you are flattered and all about Lian Li possibly ninja-ing your designs but...
Claim some credit here man...
You made a miniature case with a well thought out design and it'd be shameful if people were oblivious to that fact.

Credit goes where it's due and i feel you should not be hesitant to take it.
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While Necere did an excellent job with this case, a hinged fan bracket isn't something that hasn't been done before. I've seen it on some cases years ago. And most of the other stuff has been done before too.

What makes the Ncase M1 so unique is it's vast amount of flexibility and near-perfect efficiency, allowing high-end hardware in an extremely tiny package. All those nice features, like the fan bracket, are accurately and optimally applied in a degree unseen in this kind of cases.
 
Curlyriff said:
Is there any way to get the Sketch up file to play with so I can see what I need to change to get my design to work.
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It'll need updating once I get the drawings back from them, as there are a few changes they need to make for manufacturing. I'll keep your request in mind though.

EvilDeffy said:
@Necere:
I know you are flattered and all about Lian Li possibly ninja-ing your designs but...
Claim some credit here man...
You made a miniature case with a well thought out design and it'd be shameful if people were oblivious to that fact.

Credit goes where it's due and i feel you should not be hesitant to take it.
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I guess I'd rather not go around claiming credit for things. "I thought of that first!" Well, so what? Most people don't care. It's what you do with the idea that counts. Apple didn't invent the GUI desktop, but they made a pretty good product out of it.

Fortunately, there's enough awareness for this project that I don't really need to spend time claiming credit - our supporters are doing it. And that's pretty cool. Cooler than me jumping in and doing it myself.

And in any case, it may not be a particularly novel idea, as Phuncz said.

cookiePlant said:
By "priority shipment" I literally meant priority shipment at the post office, not in the sense that our cases get shipped first, but instead that when they do get shipped they get shipped with priority mail instead of normal :p.
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Ah, I see. I'll bring it up with w360.
 
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