NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Phuncz said:

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ncase-m1-prototype-a-mini-itx-case?c=activity

It seems to be missing some words

I'm happy you choose to go this way, I don't think many people would like a delay of 4 months just to use KickStarter. It did fine on Indiegogo.

Click to expand...

just read that too. w360: do you need a finished final-production prototype to do KS? what about like ouya where they were still developing it when they made theirs? i thought you just had to have a working prototype, but not necessarily the final finished thing. the no paypal so no int'l backers thing seems like a pretty big deal though, and is probably enough of a reason right there to forego KS. looking forward to the IGG campaign!

Most kickstarter project uses prototypes as the images... but I'll support y'all wherever.

They're not allowed to anymore, pretty much after Ouya dust was settled.

If we didnt donate for the first kick start, can we still get a case? Im assuming that you'll make however many cases people from both prototype and production kick start campaigns pay for? Then after that there will be no way to get this case again?

Screes said:

If we didnt donate for the first kick start, can we still get a case? Im assuming that you'll make however many cases people from both prototype and production kick start campaigns pay for? Then after that there will be no way to get this case again?

Click to expand...

Yes. This is addressed in the FAQ on the IGG page.

Necere or Wahaha360: could you check the update you posted yesterday on Indiegogo ? It seems to be missing parts of sentences and more text. The first sentence seems to be cut off half way and the "1)" is rather strange if there is no "2)" and so on

It's not a complaint but I'm afraid some important information is missing

Phuncz said:

Necere or Wahaha360: could you check the update you posted yesterday on Indiegogo ? It seems to be missing parts of sentences and more text. The first sentence seems to be cut off half way and the "1)" is rather strange if there is no "2)" and so on

It's not a complaint but I'm afraid some important information is missing

Click to expand...

Maybe he was tired when he posted that, I don't know.

Unfortunately, it can't be edited, and making a new post would re-send it out to everyone. I'm sure it got the point across, though.

Part 1, part 2.

This is what many of you have been waiting for: the third and final round of testing - a complete internal watercooling loop, covering both the CPU and the GPU. One of the defining features of the M1 - the ability to mount a dual 120mm radiator internally, with zero modding required - is unprecedented in a case of its size, and truly puts the M1 in a class of its own.


Configuration 4: watercooling

• P8Z77-I Deluxe
• i7 3770K
• HD7970
• SilverStone ST45SF-G
• 2x 2.5" SDD
• Slim Optical

Watercooling parts:

• Swiftech H220
• Alphacool 7970 full cover waterblock
• Koolance 3/8" barb fittings
• 3/8"ID 1/2"OD (10mm/13mm) tubing

Building a loop in the M1 proved to be easier than one might think, thanks in large part to the integrated nature of the H220. Not having to make room and route tubing for a separate pump and reservoir made things much simpler, with only a little planning required. I started by installing everything except the CPU and pump/block/rad, and then working out the best way to connect the tubing. I estimated the length of tubing initially, did a test fit, and then trimmed it if necessary. Only once I made sure it was the right length (i.e., no kinks when everything's in place, but with enough slack to lift the rad out), did I install the CPU and proceed with filling the loop.

This build ended up being less crowded than the NH-C14/Accelero build, with more room at the bottom of the case in particular, thanks to the one-slot waterblock and not needing the bottom fans. The motherboard area is also much easier to access; where e.g. changing RAM or getting at the fan headers might be all but impossible with the NH-C14, it's doable here.


Notes:

• The rad can be taken partially out of the case, depending how long the tubing is. I left enough so that it can be tilted up on its edge, if necessary, to allow full access to the interior.
• With the case on its side and the radiator resting on the chassis frame, bleeding air from the loop took a few hours.
• The H220 pump runs at 3,000 RPM at maximum, but at that speed it made a gurgling sound (which may've been due to air still in the loop). For the majority of tests I ran the pump (which is PWM and connected to the motherboard header) at under 2,000 RPM. Temps didn't appear to be significantly different at this speed vs. max.
• I tried both barb fittings and compression fittings for 3/8"ID / 1/2"OD on the GPU block, but only the barb fittings were able to clear the H220 rad. In light of this, I've made some small changes to the fan bracket and chassis that will allow it to be moved up a few mm for additional clearance.
• The H220 rad should fit with the barbs at either at the front or rear, but when at the front it completely blocks the inside front 2.5" mount from being used. With the barbs at the rear, one 2.5" drive may be installed on the inside front mount.
• A second 2.5" drive was installed on the bottom mount (alternately, a 3.5" HDD could be mounted).
• A 92mm fan was mounted on the bottom, forward of the 2.5" drive.

Config 4 thermals

The Alphacool GPU block didn't have active cooling for the VRMs (the block covers them, but there are no water channels there), so unfortunately I faced a similar situation as with the Accelero: inadequate VRM cooling under extreme load conditions. Fortunately, under normal usage scenarios, it's not a problem. Nevertheless, because of this I was only able to get Furmark measurements at stock clocks on the GPU:

Furmark, 1 hour
22C ambient
2x120 side fans in @1800RPM, 1x92mm bottom fan in @1500RPM, pump @1975RPM
7970@stock: ~77C GPU, ~103C VRMs
CPU: ~51C

As with the Accelero, I used Heaven to get overclocked temp readings:

Heaven, 30 minutues
22C ambient
2x120 side fans in @1800RPM, 1x92mm bottom fan in @1500RPM, pump @1975RPM
7970@1125/1575: ~67C GPU, ~80C VRMs
CPU: ~49C

Heaven + Prime95, 30 minutues
22C ambient
2x120 side fans in @1800RPM, 1x92mm bottom fan in @1500RPM, pump @1975RPM
7970@1125/1575: ~71C GPU, ~79C VRMs
CPU: ~74C

Under gaming loads I was able to turn down the fans and pump while maintaining reasonable temperatures:

Gaming
22.5C ambient
2x120 side fans in @1550RPM, 1x92mm bottom fan in @1500RPM, pump @1475RPM
7970@1125/1575: ~64-68C GPU, ~72-77C VRMs
CPU: ~56-59C


Overall, temperatures were a bit higher than what was achieved with the NH-C14/Accelero setup, although the GPU VRMs stayed cooler. It should be noted this setup has only two 120mm fans, vs. the C-14/Accelero's four, so there's a significant difference in airflow.

Once again, the top panel got fairly warm under load. Needless to say, whether it's air or water cooling, the components are still generating the same amount of heat, and it's going to warm up whatever it passes through. The rest of the case exterior stayed relatively cool, however.

Max temp reported by the Intel PCH on the motherboard was 66C, while the inside front and bottom-mounted SSDs reported 46 and 43C, respectively. Probably on the hot side for a mechanical drive, but acceptable for solid-state.



Config 4 noise

The H220's fans top out at 1800RPM, while the bottom-mounted 92mm ran at a constant 1500RPM. With the H220 fans PWM controlled and running at <1200RPM, and the pump at <2000RPM, I found the system to be quiet at idle. YMMV, of course, but the noise level was low enough that I could hear (and get a bit annoyed by) the faint high-pitch sound that PWM fans often make running at certain RPM.

Under load conditions, the most dominant sound was from the ST45SF-G's slim 80mm fan, which has a higher-pitch tonal quality that stands out.

Compared to the other tested configurations, I would say this is the quietest, both at load and at idle. The stock 7970's blower completely dominated everything else during the first test, while the four 120mm fans from the second test produced more airflow noise.

After I'd completed the major testing, I went ahead and replaced the fan on the ST45SF-G* with a 80x25mm, 1500RPM Nexus fan attached to the outside of the PSU intake. I found this mod makes the system almost as quiet at load as at idle. The Nexus only has about 2/3rds the airflow of the stock fan, so it remains to be seen if it causes any long term problems. I'm also experimenting with undervolting the 7970 - I've found that I can undervolt it enough to significantly drop the VRM temps, even while maintaining a mild overclock. That should keep heat and power consumption in check, which in turn will take the strain off the PSU. I think that going for a more balanced build - rather than an all-out overclocked monster - is ideal for this case. If one is smart about it, it's possible to have a system that's powerful, quiet, and small.

*Don't do this unless you know what you're doing. The capacitors in the PSU can hold a dangerous charge for a significant amount of time even after the power supply is unplugged.

Config 4 pics

Thx for the info Necere ! I'm sure now I'll go for the air cooling as a start, trying to get that setup as quiet as possible. If it proves not sufficient, I'll opt for watercooling.

At the moment I'm contemplating a Core i5-4x70K (no OC for now), mITX Z87 board, Blower-style Geforce GTX 670 or 760Ti, Noctua NH-C14 CPU cooler, single SSD and a Silverstone modular SFX PSU, along with some Noctua fans and a silent fan for the PSU.

For me this seems the most balanced build without needing watercooling and keeping the noise low.

Thx for the effort! Was the cpu stock or overclocked?

Necere said:

This is what many of you have been waiting for: the third and final round of testing - a complete internal watercooling loop, covering both the CPU and the GPU.

Click to expand...

Yes, certainly been waiting impatiently for this. Thanks for testing it and showing us the results!

It all looks good, all that would be needed is shorter PSU cables for that to be the cleanest build so far. Pity about the VRM temps, but aren't there other waterblocks for that card which cover everything?

WiSK said:

I am looking at http://i.imgur.com/OpdANgA.jpg and wondering how you propose to connect the tubes to the fittings when the radiator is mounted. Also I mentioned earlier in the thread that the Tecnofront Nano is discontinued, but I have yet to see another solution for reservoir placement or T-line. The only option seems to be a radiator with built-in res, such as included with the Swiftech H220.

Click to expand...

An old question, could you now give a fresh answer with benefit of a little hindsight? Do you think it would be unlikely that a separate radiator and reservoir would be feasible? I'm still wondering about regular rotary/angle fittings as compared to the H220.

Do you think the placement of the 3 grommets on the back is still useful? Or could it be improved based on how you've now experimented with how to run the tubing?

When you put the nexus fan on the psu, is there still enough room to rotate the psu so it pulls air from the opposite side of the case? You said you would be adding vents to that side so this could be done, just not sure if the externally mounted nexus fan would still fit in this orientation.

Phuncz said:

Thx for the info Necere ! I'm sure now I'll go for the air cooling as a start, trying to get that setup as quiet as possible. If it proves not sufficient, I'll opt for watercooling.

At the moment I'm contemplating a Core i5-4x70K (no OC for now), mITX Z87 board, Blower-style Geforce GTX 670 or 760Ti, Noctua NH-C14 CPU cooler, single SSD and a Silverstone modular SFX PSU, along with some Noctua fans and a silent fan for the PSU.

For me this seems the most balanced build without needing watercooling and keeping the noise low.

Click to expand...

I have noticed this to be the case in all computer builds. If your going balls out max performance everything, then water cooling wins. But if you go with slightly slower but still powerful equipment then air wins.

For example, i plan on going with the 3770s (65watts), and a gtx660. My native resolution will be 1080p, which this hardware will easily handle even with all the eye candy turned up in any game. But it will use a lot less power, and can be run just as cool, and quieter with air.

4670k, 16GB RAM (since ps4 and nextbox both have 8gb I'm going to double just in case) and gtx 760ti/770, one sdd and one huge hdd For me Fairly certain i will not water cool.....maybe.

Since I'm going to build around my birthday in August I hope all goes well and this is released in this 3 month window

What do you guys think about using a Noctua NH-L12 along with 2 thin scyth slipstreams? Should be able to fit with 1 mm clearance.
I know by itself it is not as good as the C14 but through the use of 4 fans it could potentially be better.

Adrenalin_2099 i will probably do the same thing but use just one huge ssd and probably an external hdd

I would also assume since the orientation of the cooler can be changed that a 92mm fan could also be placed on the rear exhaust for a total of 5 fans

I have one of those Scythe Slipstream 10mm fans and it is noisy, not loud but annoying. Because of the lack of depth, it performs very poorly in contrast to 25mm fans and produces more noise to keep the specs in check.

I'd really consider the NH-C14 as you don't need to cripple airflow which is arguably equally important as the choice of heatsink.

Interesting, I thought since you could keep both noctua fans installed on the heatsink and 3 installed on the case you could reduce overall temps since the c14 can't use the base fan with a sfx psu

Look at all the empty space! Time to shave off some mm

prava said:

Thx for the effort! Was the cpu stock or overclocked?

Click to expand...

Stock

WiSK said:

Pity about the VRM temps, but aren't there other waterblocks for that card which cover everything?

Click to expand...

Yes, though blocks for reference 7970s are getting hard to come by, as it's been around for a while now.

WiSK said:

An old question, could you now give a fresh answer with benefit of a little hindsight? Do you think it would be unlikely that a separate radiator and reservoir would be feasible? I'm still wondering about regular rotary/angle fittings as compared to the H220.

Click to expand...

I think my answer is pretty much the same. There are a lot of different component and layout possibilities, and it seems to me within the realm of feasibility that some should allow a separate res. I leave that as an exercise for the user to figure out, though.

Regarding fittings, it's helpful that they swivel on the H220 rad, but not strictly necessary, since they come more or less straight down in the layout I used anyway.

WiSK said:

Do you think the placement of the 3 grommets on the back is still useful? Or could it be improved based on how you've now experimented with how to run the tubing?

Click to expand...

I'm removing the top grommet to bring back the alternate AC inlet location from an earlier iteration. This is necessary because when the fan bracket is moved up (to allow larger fittings on the GPU enough clearance), the AC inlet would be in the way. In the alternate location it will have problems with the NH-C14 though, so you choose which location to use based on what sort of cooler you're using.

The other two grommets can't go anywhere else, so it's either keep them where they are or get rid of them entirely.

Screes said:

When you put the nexus fan on the psu, is there still enough room to rotate the psu so it pulls air from the opposite side of the case? You said you would be adding vents to that side so this could be done, just not sure if the externally mounted nexus fan would still fit in this orientation.

Click to expand...

No, it doesn't. If you want to flip the PSU, you can't have a fan on the outside - you have to replace the internal 80x15mm fan (which several people have done, using a Noiseblocker fan; check the ST45SF-G thread).

rumartinez89 said:

What do you guys think about using a Noctua NH-L12 along with 2 thin scyth slipstreams? Should be able to fit with 1 mm clearance.
I know by itself it is not as good as the C14 but through the use of 4 fans it could potentially be better.

Click to expand...

The NH-L12 is a fair bit smaller than the NH-C14, so even with more fans, performance likely won't be as great. Besides, it's possible to use a 120mm fan on the bottom of the C14. That being said, the C14 is probably overkill unless you're planning to do some significant OCing. The L12 should do a fine job for most anything else.

rumartinez89 said:

Interesting, I thought since you could keep both noctua fans installed on the heatsink and 3 installed on the case you could reduce overall temps since the c14 can't use the base fan with a sfx psu

Click to expand...

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039866874&postcount=2686
The above settings seems ideal to me with two 120mm fans for intake, two 120mm fans for outtake and a single 92mm fan as an intake and to generate positive pressure which a blower-style GPU might incur.

But those are all 25mm deep fans, I'd really avoid using the 10mm slim fans unless you absolutely need to for some reason.

@ Necere

You're using the Modular ST45SF-G ? I was under the impression that the Modular one wouldn't work (work well?) in this case and we'd need to go with the non-modular. Is this not the case?




@ no one in particular
As far as a gaming setup goes could use some input.

3570k vs 3770k? doubt i'll be OC'ing much if any.
I wouldn't notice a difference for gaming right?

Noctua NH-C14 vs Corsair H60?
C14 (Config 3) testing the ambient was higher (28c vs 21.7/22.5c) than the H60 (Config 2) , am i correct in interpreting that the C14 still kept everything cooler?



With the C14 there's no space for a 3.5" HDD, correct?




other notes:

What I'm considering atm for this build.
An i5-3570K, ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe m-ITX , GTX 670/GTX7?0, Noctua NH-C14 CPU or H60, 250GB Samsung 840 SSD (have this) and possibly 1 mechanical drive 2-4TB.

Modular psu's are only a problem for full size atx units. SFX + modular is fine.

Iam918 said:

You're using the Modular ST45SF-G ? I was under the impression that the Modular one wouldn't work (work well?) in this case and we'd need to go with the non-modular. Is this not the case?

Click to expand...

I think you are confused with 140mm Modular ATX PSU's. All SFX PSU's should fit because they are all well within the size limits.

As far as a gaming setup goes could use some input.

3570k vs 3770k? doubt i'll be OC'ing much if any.

Click to expand...

www.anandtech.com/show/6934/choosing-a-gaming-cpu-single-multigpu-at-1440p/

You're looking at <5% difference which means it won't be perceiveable. So you'd better invest that money into an SSD or cooling.

Noctua NH-C14 vs Corsair H60?

Click to expand...

Personally I don't like the extra issues (leaks, tube knicks) that you could get with CLC's in this case. Certainly if the benefit is very far behind. This setup would probably work better when mounted on the outside of the case but how much ? All I know is that the NH-C14 does an excellent job on it's own in this case.

Thank you, much appreciated!

Phuncz said:

I think you are confused with 140mm Modular ATX PSU's. All SFX PSU's should fit because they are all well within the size limits.


www.anandtech.com/show/6934/choosing-a-gaming-cpu-single-multigpu-at-1440p/

You're looking at <5% difference which means it won't be perceiveable. So you'd better invest that money into an SSD or cooling.


Personally I don't like the extra issues (leaks, tube knicks) that you could get with CLC's in this case. Certainly if the benefit is very far behind. This setup would probably work better when mounted on the outside of the case but how much ? All I know is that the NH-C14 does an excellent job on it's own in this case.

Click to expand...

@Necere
Using the C14 on the Asus P8Z77-I does it extend over the memory slots? If so will I need low profile RAM?

Was thinking about using Corsair Vengance w/ the taller heat spreader but will pick up Corsair Veng. low profile instead if the taller one will not fit.

Thanks again.

Necere said:

I think my answer is pretty much the same. There are a lot of different component and layout possibilities, and it seems to me within the realm of feasibility that some should allow a separate res. I leave that as an exercise for the user to figure out, though.

Regarding fittings, it's helpful that they swivel on the H220 rad, but not strictly necessary, since they come more or less straight down in the layout I used anyway.

I'm removing the top grommet to bring back the alternate AC inlet location from an earlier iteration. This is necessary because when the fan bracket is moved up (to allow larger fittings on the GPU enough clearance), the AC inlet would be in the way. In the alternate location it will have problems with the NH-C14 though, so you choose which location to use based on what sort of cooler you're using.

The other two grommets can't go anywhere else, so it's either keep them where they are or get rid of them entirely.

Click to expand...

Makes sense

Thanks for your response!

Iam918 said:

@Necere
Using the C14 on the Asus P8Z77-I does it extend over the memory slots? If so will I need low profile RAM?

Was thinking about using Corsair Vengance w/ the taller heat spreader but will pick up Corsair Veng. low profile instead if the taller one will not fit.

Thanks again.

Click to expand...

I'm going with these:
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Ballistix-Profile-DDR3-1600-BLS2C8G3D1609ES2LX0/dp/B00A14ZT8I

For some reason, Low Profile (LP) means: not exuberant heatsinks.
And Very Low Profile means what we should be looking at preferably.
They also need less power, 1.35V vs 1.5V for LP and normal DDR3.

VLP vs LP:





They basically stick out as far as the DIMM socket clamps.

Ah gotcha, makes sense.

Thanks Phuncz

No problem, just sharing the knowledge

I noticed these when Samsung first released these VLP modules and they were excellent performers and even better overclockers. With these you're also limiting other potential problems with the second fan on the NH-C14.

Phuncz said:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039866874&postcount=2686
The above settings seems ideal to me with two 120mm fans for intake, two 120mm fans for outtake and a single 92mm fan as an intake and to generate positive pressure which a blower-style GPU might incur.

But those are all 25mm deep fans, I'd really avoid using the 10mm slim fans unless you absolutely need to for some reason.

Click to expand...

Those two at the bottom would be best for a blower-style gpu right? If you have an open air card wouldnt that cause problems.

What do you think about a setup with an atx psu/C14 with both 140mm fans installed. I was thinking of using a motherboard with an msata slot on the back to save space like the asrock. Therefore i would be able to change the orientation of the C14 to make space for the 92mm fan right?

Hi Necere,

I've been following this thread pretty much since the beginning and i've donated on the 2nd list of the IGG campaign, and i intend to get at least 1 of your cases.

I've always lurked about the fora but never actually posted because i tend to get agitated really quick so i avoid posting for the most part, but i registered just for the following issue:

Your thermal testing of the watercooling loop...
I see you're using the stock Helix fans of the H220, i've read in several reviews that those fans are nothing short of horrible for the cooler, is there any chance you have other fans lying about you could use and add to that thermal testing?

I currently cannot find the links for it, but it was a bug with the PWM characteristics with the Helix fans combined with the H220, do you have a set of like Noctua NF-F12/Scythe Gentle Typhoons/Corsair SP120 or AF120s? (I say AF120 because the FPI count on the H220 are lower than it's competitors, so it may be "properly" viable!)

It would be highly appreciated if you have/could etc.

EvilDeffy said:

I see you're using the stock Helix fans of the H220, i've read in several reviews that those fans are nothing short of horrible for the cooler ... it was a bug with the PWM characteristics with the Helix fans

Click to expand...

I'm guessing you might be thinking of Linus' video review? He erroneously used Noctua low-noise-adapters on the Helix fans, reducing the voltage to 7V whereby the fans were running at only 600rpm. In his comparison, he championed some Noctua fans which run with the low-noise-adapter at 1100rpm. Linus later apologised for his mistake and re-ran his tests with the Helix fans at 1100rpm and showed only a few degrees difference in performance. Unfortunately if you search for 'h220 review' then the video with the mistake still comes up first.

Incidentally MartinsLiquidLab did a full review of the H220 and found that at full speed using push-pull, Gentle Typhoons (GT15) and Helix fans only show a 1 degree difference in core temps.

If you do find the links to reviews which dispute this, I'd be interested to read them

Although not directly related to the case, Necere mentioned that the accelero extreme didn't cool the vrm's as well as the stock cooler. But seeing as the accelero plus 2 120mm fans looks to be the best GPU cooling option, I thought some people make might find this link interesting:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1367478/accelero-7970-with-stock-vrm-cooling/10

It's basically a quick mod to fit the accelero with the stock vrm cooling

Necere said:

Watercooling parts:

• 
  ...
• Koolance 3/8" barb fittings
  ...

...

• I tried both barb fittings and compression fittings for 3/8"ID / 1/2"OD on the GPU block, but only the barb fittings were able to clear the H220 rad. In light of this, I've made some small changes to the fan bracket and chassis that will allow it to be moved up a few mm for additional clearance.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the watercooling test Necere! So with the changes you made, how much clearance is there now for 90 degree fittings on the GPU block? I also can't seem to find the dimensions for the Koolance fittings you're using.

EDIT:
Another question - would the 240mm DEMCi Flex Magnetic Fan Filter be able to fit okay on the inside of both side panels? Just considering fan filter options if the SFX PSU is turned around to draw air from the nearest vent. Sorry if this is a stupid question - haven't actually used these fan filters before and not sure attaching them to the vents on side panels is even sane/possible.

Iam918 said:

@Necere
Using the C14 on the Asus P8Z77-I does it extend over the memory slots? If so will I need low profile RAM?

Click to expand...

It does extend over the memory slots, but it leaves plenty of room for RAM. I don't know about the ones with the tall heatsinks, but the lower profile ones with the red heat spreader should fit fine - even with a 120mm lower fan installed. VLP RAM is unnecessary.

EvilDeffy said:

Your thermal testing of the watercooling loop...
I see you're using the stock Helix fans of the H220, i've read in several reviews that those fans are nothing short of horrible for the cooler, is there any chance you have other fans lying about you could use and add to that thermal testing?

I currently cannot find the links for it, but it was a bug with the PWM characteristics with the Helix fans combined with the H220, do you have a set of like Noctua NF-F12/Scythe Gentle Typhoons/Corsair SP120 or AF120s? (I say AF120 because the FPI count on the H220 are lower than it's competitors, so it may be "properly" viable!)

Click to expand...

I don't have a pair of any of those, but like WiSK suggested, I wonder if you're thinking of Linus' review? Aside from his mistaken initial finding, I haven't read anything that indicated the Helix fans were lacking.

justcme said:

Thanks for the watercooling test Necere! So with the changes you made, how much clearance is there now for 90 degree fittings on the GPU block? I also can't seem to find the dimensions for the Koolance fittings you're using.

Click to expand...

Angled barb: 21.4mm tall
Angled compression: 26.4mm tall

I said earlier the compression fittings wouldn't fit, but I just checked again and apparently I was mistaken. They do fit, with a couple millimeters to spare. I'm not sure why I believed they wouldn't before, except that maybe it was due to not having the rad fully installed when I checked.

In any case, I've made a change to the fan bracket that should allow another 7mm or so - so about 34-35mm in total available for fittings. The waterblock may add or subtract a few mm, so keep that in mind as well.

justcme said:

Another question - would the 240mm DEMCi Flex Magnetic Fan Filter be able to fit okay on the inside of both side panels? Just considering fan filter options if the SFX PSU is turned around to draw air from the nearest vent. Sorry if this is a stupid question - haven't actually used these fan filters before and not sure attaching them to the vents on side panels is even sane/possible.

Click to expand...

The standard Demciflex filters won't fit. We ordered a custom set for the left side fan intakes though, which you can see in some of the pics.

A single filter could not be used over the entire right side vent, because there's only about 1.5mm between the motherboard tray and the side panel, while the filters are ~3mm. A custom smaller filter could be used on the PSU intake, however.

Something else to note: when the ST45SF-G is flipped to intake from the right side, around 40% of the fan intake is behind the front portion of the side panel, meaning airflow will be somewhat restricted. This is due to the fan being on one side of the power supply. There's still ~3.5mm between the panel and the PSU though, so it's not completely flush with the panel and will have a little room to breathe. In comparison, the regular Bronze ST45SF has the fan more centrally located, leaving it almost entirely unblocked.

Necere, what do you think about using the atx bracket for the sfx psu.do you think that will provide better airflow.
For storage I will go with msata or a single large sad installed on the floor incase anyone is wondering.

rumartinez89 said:

Necere, what do you think about using the atx bracket for the sfx psu.do you think that will provide better airflow.

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Probably a bit worse, if anything, since you have to give up one of the side fans. You also can't benefit from direct outside air by flipping the PSU to intake from the right side.

Necere said:

Something else to note: when the ST45SF-G is flipped to intake from the right side, around 40% of the fan intake is behind the front portion of the side panel, meaning airflow will be somewhat restricted.

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Any plans to modify the hole pattern/location to improve this? Also you mentioned custom filters as seen in the pictures. I assume you mean the fan/hdd cage side. Any plans to include a filter for the new vent for if we flip the psu or that'll be on us to source/make?

PolarBear said:

Any plans to modify the hole pattern/location to improve this? Also you mentioned custom filters as seen in the pictures. I assume you mean the fan/hdd cage side. Any plans to include a filter for the new vent for if we flip the psu or that'll be on us to source/make?

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Changing the vents is a tradeoff between aesthetics, function, strength, and cost, but I'll see what I can do.

I don't yet know if we'll include Demciflex filters or not. It's both a logistics and cost issue, and not everyone will use the PSU filter. What we could do instead is provide the specs for the filters, that people could then order themselves from Demciflex.