Don't know if this is what you're looking for, but on both tests, the hardware used was indicated.
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039852611&postcount=2579
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039866874&postcount=2686
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NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)
- Thread starter wahaha360
- Start date
Don't know if this is what you're looking for, but on both tests, the hardware used was indicated.
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039852611&postcount=2579
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039866874&postcount=2686
I saw those posts and tried looking up some reference 7970 temps, but they varied quite a bit and was impossible to compare to. They also didn't use Furmark for many of them.
An open-air reference with all else identical might be an easy way to see if there is sufficient airflow around components when packed into this case...
An open-air reference with all else identical might be an easy way to see if there is sufficient airflow around components when packed into this case...
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D
Deleted member 222586
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On the second round of testing they used an Accelero and 2 intake fans at the bottom, that were used as the accelero fans.
So, if you plan to use a non-blower style of card, you won't be able to have 2 intake fans at the bottom as they will work against the fans on the card and, if you don't have those 2 intake fans, I wonder what kind of fresh air the card will get.
You can mount slim fans in the bottom if you so desire by why do you think they will be working against each other? They should be spinning and blowing in the same direction: counter-clockwise and toward the card/heatsink.
Stacking fans can actually be a detriment to airflow if done incorrectly : http://www.overclockers.com/fan-stacking-myth-vs-reality/You can mount slim fans in the bottom if you so desire by why do you think they will be working against each other? They should be spinning and blowing in the same direction: counter-clockwise and toward the card/heatsink.
That was done to show the effect of using two fans stacked to increase the airflow through a heat sink. The purpose here is to use one set of fans to pull cool air directly from the outside and direct it toward another set of fans that are cooling a heatsink. Even without directly increasing the airflow passing through the heat sink it can provide cooler air in general and push the warmer air toward the top of the case.
ps - though the information is probably still valid that is one heck of an old article.
cookiePlant
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Necere is there any news for european backers? You guys mentioned at some point in time that you may have found a distributer in the uk, or did I misunderstand that?
antihelten
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just did a quick look and found a number of reviews of reference 7970's using furmark (or OCCT in one case):
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1805/12/ (open air)
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/amd_hd7970_3gb_tahiti_review,9.html (open air)
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5458/the-radeon-hd-7970-reprise-pcie-bandwidth-overclocking-and-msaa/2 (probably open air)
http://www.techspot.com/review/481-amd-radeon-7970/page11.html (probably open air)
http://www.eteknix.com/amd-radeon-hd-7970-3gb-graphics-card-review/15/ (open air)
For stock temperatures ranged between 78 and 83 degrees with an average of about 80.
For overclock (only 2 reviews, vortez and anandtech) the temperatures were 83 degrees (at 1125 and 1100 MHz)
Necere got 88 degrees or about 5 degrees higher, which seems reasonable considering the reviews generally used an open air setup, and we don't know the ambient temp (although it wasn't particularly high in Necere's tests)
I know this wasn't exactly what you were looking for, but it does indicate that the thermals are fairly decent, and probably comparable to what you would find in other normal cases that don't necessarily have a huge amount of airflow
Most likely. The heatsink is the largest, and it'll get the most direct fresh air.
His idea is to remove the stock shroud and fans and use 120s instead, like I did with the Accelero. That's assuming the cooler heatsink minus fans and shroud is only two slots thick. If it's any more than that, it requires <25mm thick fans.
Check the specs. The triple slot card is too long for the third slot (but presumably not if the shroud/fans are removed).
I agree, I think if you're using a dual-slot non-blower card (in the first two slots) it'd probably be worth it to use 120mm fan shrouds on the bottom. Like these:
Though since it's only 20mm thick, you'd probably want to couple it with a gasket like this to minimize the gap between it and the GPU intake. Doing that should help the card's fans pull in fresh air.
I don't know about "terribly." It depends how powerful a card it is and how much heat it puts out. For best results though, I think you'd want bottom 120mm fans or shrouds to prevent the hot air from recycling.
That said, as I found in testing, it wasn't necessarily the temperature of the GPU or CPU that were an issue (since, if they're set up properly, they should both have a good supply of outside air), but rather the heat coming through the vents which causes the panels to get warm in a way that may bother some people. That will be an issue when using a hotter non-blower card no matter what.
I didn't. I wasn't actually monitoring HDD temps during that test (probably should have been). The 42c measurement was with the 3.5" drive on the bottom and the reference blower card (config 2 in the first set of testing). So the HDD wasn't getting any airflow directed at it during that test.
That's w360's department.
Again, ideally you'd use fan shrouds on the bottom, or remove the stock fans/shroud and run 120mm fans on the bottom. But yeah, try it without first and see how it does.
At this point probably not. The Accelero is off now and I can't readily replace it or the stock cooler (nor do I particularly want to deal with the Accelero's thermal adhesive and tiny heatsinks again).
Not larger like that, no. But matching vents on the opposite panel, yes.
Zangmonkey
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Thanks for the update.
Have you made any decisions on this change?
FWIW, I think it's a good idea. Any idea on the airflow required to maintain positive pressure if you were to perforate the right side?
Phuncz
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http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039866874&postcount=2686
I'd call a 7°C above average ambient room temperature quite important. It's not that your component temperatures are just higher by 7°C, but they'll be even hotter. Or so is my experience.
More holes doesn't make it suddenly go from positive pressure to negative pressure. It is as simple as this:
Positive pressure = more inward airflow than outward
Negative pressure = more outward airflow than inward
I think only one person had a "problem" with the right side perforation but it wasn't a good enough argument to not do it. Just like the ODD slot.
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Rephrasing what was said, negative pressure causes dust buildup and neutral to positive pressure does not cause dust buildup. So I don't think anyone needs to say "You need at least XX pascals of positive air pressure inside the case to keep dust out."
Zangmonkey
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Positive pressure cases keep dust out, but they also require more planning and airflow to keep heat "eddys" under control. Positive pressure design is more difficult if air has too many ways out of the case.
Phuncz
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When you have positive pressure, you have positive pressure. More holes in your case doesn't change that at all. Unless it is so open that it's no longer a closed box. And then there is no more pressure.
When you have a much higher than "slightly" positive pressure, you are just creating more noise because air gets pushed out all of the holes. But you'd also cool a little better. Beware, these are just very minimal differences.
When you have a much higher than "slightly" positive pressure, you are just creating more noise because air gets pushed out all of the holes. But you'd also cool a little better. Beware, these are just very minimal differences.
I think that it could actually look better if the vent is framed by an even blank space that's the same width all the way around! extrapolating what was said about the top panel I'd guess flex wouldn't be an issue either. Moot point though as Necere said a few posts above that the the vent size will remain as it is now.
Maybe after the distribution is complete there will be enough people interested in alternative mod parts that some could be built to order and distributed by a group buy.
I haven't read your link but I believe that the statement is true, iirc the ideal solution for fans in series is for the second to be a counter rotating mirror image of the first - discovered by aircraft manufacturers experimenting with propeller arrangements? anyway I don't believe you can buy mirror image case fans to try this.
Lol... so yeah, I posted that PSA the other day because I found the thread on /g/ with that pic and his stated intent to use the Classified with the M1.
So here's the deal. See this:
That's the official PCIe spec. The M1 is designed to support only cards that conform to the spec, i.e., up to 111mm x 312mm. AMD and nVidia always make cards that conform to the spec, so you don't have to worry if you stick with reference cards (so yes, the 7990 will fit. But it's a bad idea due to it dumping all its heat in the case). It's only companies like EVGA and ASUS making these oversized cards that don't conform to the spec. In order to stay as close as possible to the original intent of the M1 - small and sleek, while still allowing high performance components - some sacrifices had to be made. Should it have been designed with enough room for every custom, oversized, out-of-spec monster card out there? Where do you draw the line? Instead of making an arbitrary decision about what size cards it should support, and all the headache of will it or will it not support a handful of larger cards (although we've got some of that anyway), I decided to only support cards that conform to the spec. If you need to house your monster card, by all means - buy a Prodigy or S3 instead. It'll be easier to work in and give you more options. The M1 was designed to be small first and foremost, but without excluding high performance hardware. This necessarily means some limitations. It's not for everyone.
rumartinez89
Limp Gawd
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Not larger like that, no. But matching vents on the opposite panel, yes.[/QUOTE]
Random thought, would the end user be able to flip the panel if wanted to focus free air on the gpu and not the cpu?
Sorry to keep bugging you but the case is so awesome.
Random thought, would the end user be able to flip the panel if wanted to focus free air on the gpu and not the cpu?
Sorry to keep bugging you but the case is so awesome.
No, the clip placement is not symmetrical all the way around. The other issue, even if the clips were symmetrical, is that the panels are not the perfect rectangles. They have a flare on the back edge.
antihelten
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The guy I replied to was asking about the reference cooled 7970, the results you listed were for the accelero xtreme 7970.
For the reference cooled 7970 (config 1 and 2), the ambient was 21-22.5.
I expect the fan speed would just ramp up to keep it running under 90C at higher ambients. The highest it ever got during those tests was ~60% (which is still pretty loud).
THANKS!!!
The Magicool Extreme dual 120 slim radiator is 276 x 120 x 30 mm... I HAVE HOPE!!!!
I'll try to have it up in the next day or two.
cookiePlant
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Is w360 alive?
wahaha360
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There are no developments on that front because...
The European distributor is basically doing me a favor and offering unused warehouse space if available - so it all depends on the date M1 ships.
Since Necere is not done testing, I cannot time the KS campaign, or the start of production, or delivery dates. I cannot ask for distribution when I don't know when the product will land in the UK.
I'm waiting like the everyone else.
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That's it as far as testing. Then it's finalizing changes, finishing updates to the CAD, and writing/illustrating specifications and directions for LL.
I apologize if this has already been answered, didn't see it. What are the plans after testing? I know there's another kick start for production models. How many will be produced? Will this be a one time thing, or are you going to be selling cases for the foreseeable future? What are your goals? Do you want to get picked up by a major case vendor like Lian Li, or do you want to be your own vendor with possibly more/ different cases in the future?
yimingwuzere
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How about one for the Asia Pacific region? That'll help keep shipping costs lower for folks in Australia and Southeast Asia.
I've answered these to the best of my current knowledge though I could be wrong on all counts:
wahaha360
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Same with UK distribution. It all depends on timing and quantity. Until we have 1) volume = space required, 2) shipping dates, it's too early.
Logistics companies make $ if we keep inventory longer in their warehouses. Since all the products will ship immediately after arriving at the warehouse, logistics companies don't make enough money working with us. Since we are not really a company either, we can't sign a long term contract to incentivize these logistic companies either.
For these reasons, I've had a hard time getting warehouse at a reasonable price because our business is not attractive.
Whatever distribution I can get, it will be more like a personal favor. Without knowledge of shipping dates, it's too early to ask.
wahaha360
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I been traveling for work, living in a suitcase with spotty internet connection.
Links are now in the first thread.
After testing: 1) update CAD model & finalize confirmation from LL, 2) launch production campaign, 3) manufacture and ship products
NCASE will most likely remain an enthusiast / collector product. SFF is a niche product in a niche market. The bad news is that it will never be big enough for us to do it full-time. The good news is that since it's a hobby, we have artistic freedom because the only thing we really get is street credit.
There are no current plans to be acquired by another vendor.
Phuncz
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http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ncase-m1-prototype-a-mini-itx-case?c=activity
It seems to be missing some words
I'm happy you choose to go this way, I don't think many people would like a delay of 4 months just to use KickStarter. It did fine on Indiegogo.