Waiting for Haswell?

http://chipreviews.com/cpu/frostbite-2s-limit-6-core-performance-in-battlefield-3/5/

battlefield 3 and the upcoming battlefield 4 love some 6 core intel processing

game's almost 2 years old and people still aren't aware that frostbite 2 utilizes 6+ cores?

Got a few games that use the engine that do as well.

Let's see.. Hitman Absolution, Sleeping Dogs, and Tomb Raider all use 4+ cores.

http://gamegpu.ru/images/stories/Test_GPU/Action/Hitman Absolution/hitman proz 2.png

So much misinformation being spread about more than 4 cores being used in games
 
mellojoe said:
I'm using your thought, but its been said many times, and I've always wanted to respond to this:

If you are in the 3-year, 4-year, or 6-year upgrade cyle that so many people are, the dream of buying a platform and then upgrading that platform at a later date is just that ... a dream. Most people buy one time, and then by the time they are ready to upgrade, their platform has been obsoleted by 2 or 3 generations. Sure, they can "throw money away" and buy a final run processor from a dead technology, but finding those cheaply is worse than trying to upgrade the whole system.

Look at me, for instance. On a P35 motherboard. Do you know how hard it is to find Socket LGA775 cpu's? So, at this point, bying a "high-end" LGA775 is really just a non-issue. I love the idea of buying a platform and then just upgrading the CPU at some point down the road. But, I have rarely ever seen that work out for the end user. The only time was back in the 500mhz days, when you could go from 450mhz to 950mhz on the same platform, and that made a big enough difference to warrant the upgrade. Now, the architectures are so similar, and the performance gains are so minimal, that it just doesn't seem to pay to buy a 2nd chip from the same platform.

For power users, they aren't on long upgrade cycles. Sometimes they'll be upgrading multiple times, and for them jumping from one platform to another isn't a bad thing. They're opening their boxes multiple times a year anyway, so plopping in a new mobo isn't a worry. But for many, they like to THINK they will adopt a future-proof platform, but it just doesn't exist. In 3 or 4 years, everything will change anyway. So buy today what makes you happy. Me? I'll wait for Haswell, only because I'm in a position where I CAN wait. For others, buy an IvyBridge and call it a day.
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I'm in the same boat - I went directly from Northwood-B to Conroe (albeit Celeron DC); now I'm going from Kentsfield (dual-dual Conroe) to Ivy Bridge (not Haswell) because I'm not under much upgrade pressure software-wise - the biggest reason I'm under any pressure has to do with Hyper-V, not gaming. Unless Haswell offers major improvements there OR requires a different system RAM type than DDR3, the dead-socket impact on me will be either minimal or nil. (The reason there was any dead-socket impact on me with LGA775 was due to a memory-type change - from DDR2 to DDR3 - during LGA775's end days.) I will skip Haswell and instead wait for Broadwell, if not longer - as someone said in another thread, a purchase has to make sense for the buyer. Laying out major coin for minimal gain is never a sensible idea.
 
PGHammer said:
I'm in the same boat - I went directly from Northwood-B to Conroe (albeit Celeron DC); now I'm going from Kentsfield (dual-dual Conroe) to Ivy Bridge (not Haswell) because I'm not under much upgrade pressure software-wise - the biggest reason I'm under any pressure has to do with Hyper-V, not gaming. Unless Haswell offers major improvements there OR requires a different system RAM type than DDR3, the dead-socket impact on me will be either minimal or nil. (The reason there was any dead-socket impact on me with LGA775 was due to a memory-type change - from DDR2 to DDR3 - during LGA775's end days.) I will skip Haswell and instead wait for Broadwell, if not longer - as someone said in another thread, a purchase has to make sense for the buyer. Laying out major coin for minimal gain is never a sensible idea.
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If I were you, I'd go LGA2011. It isn't a dead socket (yet) and will last longer.
 
I don't believe it is unless you are running FEA software or video editing/ multi media tasks, etc.
 
BatJoe said:
If I were you, I'd go LGA2011. It isn't a dead socket (yet) and will last longer.
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For the price of going LGA 2011, you could go 1155 now and 1150 later, and possibly another generation after that. Your point is useless. If you don't need the extra PCI-E lanes or memory bus size, then LGA 2011 is absolutely pointless and overpriced.
 
On sites like this the push to get the latest and greatest hardware is generally at full bore. For the general public, casual gamers, and non "Extreme" gaming rigs there is little need to push the latest and greatest mantra.

80% of users (including "powerusers") will see no perceivable difference between an i7 sandy bridge, i7 ivy bridge or the new Haswell.

Buying current generation of even previous generation cpu/motherboard combos at a reduced cost allows them to spend more on video cards, ram and ssd drives where they can see noticeable improvement. These users will be able to get by for a couple of years or more before feeling the need to upgrade again and will again see added benefit from buying previous generation hardware.

Not everyone has the budget to upgrade to a new high-end cou and motherboard at the same time... nor is there any good reason for many users to do so.
 
dandragonrage said:
For the price of going LGA 2011, you could go 1155 now and 1150 later, and possibly another generation after that. Your point is useless. If you don't need the extra PCI-E lanes or memory bus size, then LGA 2011 is absolutely pointless and overpriced.
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yes and no....not only the extra PCI-E lanes or memory bus size, its the kind of chip that can be used.. its not comparable a 3770k vs the 3970X or even 4960X.. much more performance for more years than a 3770k.
 
If you're doing tri/quad SLI, 3820 + X79 board can be cheaper than a 3770k/Z77 with PLX.
 
dandragonrage said:
For the price of going LGA 2011, you could go 1155 now and 1150 later, and possibly another generation after that. Your point is useless. If you don't need the extra PCI-E lanes or memory bus size, then LGA 2011 is absolutely pointless and overpriced.
Click to expand...

A decent 2011 motherboard runs about 220.00. these are solid tested and mature products. Ad a 3960x for 800.00 and you have a great 1000 dollar combo that will overclock and is upgradeable still to higher end cpus.

Up until a few weeks ago a 3770k was 300+ usd and a z77 board with comparable features to the 220.00 x79 motherboard was about 220-250.

I am sure that the Haswell/1150 combo will be the same or more expensive Making the cost of these 2 combos over 1000.00 and will not preform as well as the 2011 3960x
 
dandragonrage said:
For the price of going LGA 2011, you could go 1155 now and 1150 later, and possibly another generation after that. Your point is useless. If you don't need the extra PCI-E lanes or memory bus size, then LGA 2011 is absolutely pointless and overpriced.
Click to expand...

No, my point isn't. LGA2011 is forward thinking. You have more upgrade options (cpu up to 6 cores currently, memory 64gb max vs 32gb, extra PCI 3.0 lanes). Its more future proof.

And 6 core is going to be better for next-gen games than quad core. And the extra PCI lanes also lets you expand your performance if you have to in the future.
 
BatJoe said:
No, my point isn't. LGA2011 is forward thinking. You have more upgrade options (cpu up to 6 cores currently, memory 64gb max vs 32gb, extra PCI 3.0 lanes). Its more future proof.

And 6 core is going to be better for next-gen games than quad core. And the extra PCI lanes also lets you expand your performance if you have to in the future.
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Thats a huge assumption man, especially with how you base it around gaming.

First you assume games are going to keep increasing in cores, but if history is any indicator, the number of cores used in games has pretty much followed the latest mainstream processors, which have stagnated to 4, bearing in mind exceptions such as BF3.

Also the number of cores in the mainstream processors have stagnated to 4. Remember we were predicting ivy to have 6 and 8 core cpus on the mainstream line when it was first announced, and now we're finding out that Haswell will also have 4 cores on the mainstream line. This stagnation in core numbers will influence and probably already has influenced game design for sure.

And then you assume people are going to either spend a little bit to buy old and go multicard in the future with the diminishing returns in the face of new technology, when in reality they could save by doing the same (up to dual guaranteed, tri on some specific mobos) on a mainstream platform. Remember to make use more pci lanes on x79 than z77 has to offer, you need to be going tri-fire or tr-sli or higher, which people very vary rarely ever consider.

Now, if somebody needed greater compute performance, and were a total [H]ard user, then your statement totally stands. But as it is, with gaming as your focus, x79 doesn't make all that much sense compared to Has. Less people will want tri-sli, less people will need 6 cores, less people will need more than 32 gigs of ram. Going on the mainstream platform and upgrading it sooner just makes more sense for most people.
 
thesecond said:
Thats a huge assumption man, especially with how you base it around gaming.

First you assume games are going to keep increasing in cores, but if history is any indicator, the number of cores used in games has pretty much followed the latest mainstream processors, which have stagnated to 4, bearing in mind exceptions such as BF3.

Also the number of cores in the mainstream processors have stagnated to 4. Remember we were predicting ivy to have 6 and 8 core cpus on the mainstream line when it was first announced, and now we're finding out that Haswell will also have 4 cores on the mainstream line. This stagnation in core numbers will influence and probably already has influenced game design for sure.

And then you assume people are going to either spend a little bit to buy old and go multicard in the future with the diminishing returns in the face of new technology, when in reality they could save by doing the same (up to dual guaranteed, tri on some specific mobos) on a mainstream platform. Remember to make use more pci lanes on x79 than z77 has to offer, you need to be going tri-fire or tr-sli or higher, which people very vary rarely ever consider.

Now, if somebody needed greater compute performance, and were a total [H]ard user, then your statement totally stands. But as it is, with gaming as your focus, x79 doesn't make all that much sense compared to Has. Less people will want tri-sli, less people will need 6 cores, less people will need more than 32 gigs of ram. Going on the mainstream platform and upgrading it sooner just makes more sense for most people.
Click to expand...

yeah thats totally right, we can't no ensure what comes in the line of the next gen games.. but if all games start to be like BF3 far cry 3 or crysis 3.. the quad cores intel CPU will have to increase.. to ensure the better performance possible however this will not be soon.. :) we can talk in a line of 2-3 years when see the first mainstream 6cores chip.. and the extreme lines move to the 8cores.
 
thesecond said:
Thats a huge assumption man, especially with how you base it around gaming.
Click to expand...

Not really. There are some games today taking use of more than 4 cores. This will only increase. And the next-gen systems are 8 core systems, with at least 1 of those cores being devoted to their operating systems most likely. Maybe 2. I'm guessing. But the next-gen consoles are a good basis for the future.

Now, if somebody needed greater compute performance, and were a total [H]ard user, then your statement totally stands. But as it is, with gaming as your focus, x79 doesn't make all that much sense compared to Has. Less people will want tri-sli, less people will need 6 cores, less people will need more than 32 gigs of ram. Going on the mainstream platform and upgrading it sooner just makes more sense for most people.
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We know compute for a fact is going to play a bigger role next-gen in games. At the Ps4 conference they spoke a lot about the compute performance of the Ps4. The next XBOX is also said to push more compute performance.
 
Man. Seeing the Haswell benchmarks so far I'm a bit unimpressed. I'm still on an old i7 920 OC'ed @ 4ghz and was planning to jump on haswell. I work at a retail store so was gonna nab the the 3770k and sell it, and put a little money on top and get haswell. Now I don't even know if it's worth the hassle. Might as well just nab a 3770k and build a system..What would you guys do?...lol..I did see the 7.1ghz oc for the ES sample though. If haswell turns out to be a beast of OC'ing though I will take the plunge since I always go heavy on the overclocking...

But bah...=*(...I'm a sad panda.
 
BatJoe said:
No, my point isn't. LGA2011 is forward thinking. You have more upgrade options (cpu up to 6 cores currently, memory 64gb max vs 32gb, extra PCI 3.0 lanes). Its more future proof.
Click to expand...

My point is that very, very few people (including people here) will ever notice the extra CPU power and memory bandwidth over the mainstream setup, except in synthetic benchmarks and video processing. Even most of you who will quote me and tell me to go hang out at casualcomputerforum in reality won't even notice the difference. Yes for those who want to run 72 Geforce Titans it matters. Yes perhaps to those looking to use RAID cards and SLI or other complex setups like that. But for 99% of us we could just pay a bunch less money for the mainstream setup - and stop kidding yourselves that you need the top-level motherboards with every single feature - and the money we save could be used to buy a new mainstream platform the next year or the year after, and by then 2011 will be dead.

If you need the extra stuff, fine. If you don't need it and don't mind spending extra money anyway, fine. But a cost effective decision for the rest of us it is not.
 
Ikasu said:
Man. Seeing the Haswell benchmarks so far I'm a bit unimpressed. I'm still on an old i7 920 OC'ed @ 4ghz and was planning to jump on haswell. I work at a retail store so was gonna nab the the 3770k and sell it, and put a little money on top and get haswell. Now I don't even know if it's worth the hassle. Might as well just nab a 3770k and build a system..What would you guys do?...lol..I did see the 7.1ghz oc for the ES sample though. If haswell turns out to be a beast of OC'ing though I will take the plunge since I always go heavy on the overclocking...

But bah...=*(...I'm a sad panda.
Click to expand...

wait for haswell.. it worth a lot.. to keep in a fresh socked.. the 3770k its dead end.. no more than that.. waiting for haswell alow you to sell your chip later and use broadwell when out.. it worth the wait for haswell.. :).. do not worry now for haswell.. remember the heat problems on ivy when OC.. that could make you some headaches and overworries.. :)..
 
Is the Haswell USB 3.0 issue going to affect the xeons as well? Also, is Asus going to release a z87 workstation motherboard?
 
Guys, when is the i7-4770k due to hit the streets and when can we expect to see reviews of this CPU?

I would be interested in buying this CPU, but only if it can genuinely overclock high, while maintaining stability. I'm not really impressed by suicide/unstable overclocks.
 
NIVO said:
are you referring to the awaken from sleep state issue? I saw a statement issued from Intell that chips will have a fixed C2 stepping at release. Cant say if it affects or has been corrected for xeons. http://qdms.intel.com/dm/d.aspx/C79FC2E6-6B75-4063-8687-660F4668FFC8/PCN112101-00.pdf
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I was talking about the sleep state issue. Is it an issue with the processor or the chipset? Different sites are giving conflicting info and the pdf you posted made it seem like it's a chipset issue.
 
Raghar said:
It's chipset issue.
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The term "chipset" muddies the waters a bit. In the past it would imply a motherboard issue, in this case the problem is within the USB3 controller that's integrated to the processor itself, so it's really a processor issue.

As far as it affecting server/workstations, generally Intel releases Xeon processors sometime after their mainstream counterparts. If this same trend holds true for Haswell, it's entirely possible they will not have the issue considering Intel has already identified the issue and has a fix. Though if this issue is going to affect your particular application, I would verify before taking my word for it.
 
I for myself ain't waiting for Haswell.
Just bought myself an 3770K (mid Nov -12) and just purchased upgrade for my HTPC (G2120&DH77EB+stuff)
I might consider moving to Skylake on my main rig but not before.

For my HTPC I could've waited for Haswell since the current setup has been running fine since Dec -10 so what's another year eh? :D

Since ain't Intel doing it again, bringing i5's & i7's first, then i3's and last the Pentium's and Celeron's?
For Sandy/Ivy it was i5/i7 Q1-11/Q2-12, i3 Q1-11/Q3-12, Pentium/Celeron Q3-11/Q1-13
And since I obviously don't need i3/i5/i7 kind of performance to an HTPC I probably would've had to wait until Q1-14 or something like that.

But decided that Haswell doesn't really offer something I'd really want. Sure improved iGPU and power management/efficiency/whatever but I prefer discrete (for now) and don't really think there will be some phenomenal improvement in power consumption with these on the desktop side of things.

Too bad Intel is ramping down their motherboard manufacturing (Foxconn makes them but you know) since I've really love how efficient they are.
I was looking at various different boards and then I caught my eye on the Intel boards and saw some power measurements from the H77 boards and I was sold. Now all I gotta do is upgrade my HD5670 to HD7750 (or HD8xxx equilevant) and grab a more efficient psu. Then I'll be done with my HTPC for a WHILE. Can't imagine myself thinking about upgrades until like 2016-2017 or something like that. Perhaps like a HDD upgrade if the WD starts dying or what not.

Woah, nice rambling from me again lawl.
 
RamonGTP said:
The term "chipset" muddies the waters a bit. In the past it would imply a motherboard issue, in this case the problem is within the USB3 controller that's integrated to the processor itself, so it's really a processor issue.

As far as it affecting server/workstations, generally Intel releases Xeon processors sometime after their mainstream counterparts. If this same trend holds true for Haswell, it's entirely possible they will not have the issue considering Intel has already identified the issue and has a fix. Though if this issue is going to affect your particular application, I would verify before taking my word for it.
Click to expand...

I have a Supermicro X9SAE\Intel Xeon E3-1245v2 in my server and an Asus P8Z77-V Deluxe\Intel Core i7 3770K in my main computer. I wish to buy two Xeon E3-1285v3 processors and a z87 Supermicro motherboard and an Asus z87 workstation motherboard. The flaw is mainly a resale concern, come upgrade season. According to Wikipedia, the Xeon E3-1285v3 comes out in June.
 
RamonGTP said:
The term "chipset" muddies the waters a bit. In the past it would imply a motherboard issue, in this case the problem is within the USB3 controller that's integrated to the processor itself, so it's really a processor issue.

As far as it affecting server/workstations, generally Intel releases Xeon processors sometime after their mainstream counterparts. If this same trend holds true for Haswell, it's entirely possible they will not have the issue considering Intel has already identified the issue and has a fix. Though if this issue is going to affect your particular application, I would verify before taking my word for it.
Click to expand...

The USB 3.0 controller is on the southbridge, which is separate from the processor. Until the southbridge is moved onto the processor, the USB controller is separate from the processor.

TheOne5 said:
I have a Supermicro X9SAE\Intel Xeon E3-1245v2 in my server and an Asus P8Z77-V Deluxe\Intel Core i7 3770K in my main computer. I wish to buy two Xeon E3-1285v3 processors and a z87 Supermicro motherboard and an Asus z87 workstation motherboard. The flaw is mainly a resale concern, come upgrade season. According to Wikipedia, the Xeon E3-1285v3 comes out in June.
Click to expand...

The issue is not a major one. It only concerns USB 3.0 devices, which are dropped when coming out of certain sleep states. Replugging them easily remedies the problem. Intel is also introducing new low power sleep states with Haswell, and USB 3.0 devices being dropped doesn't occur in those new sleep states. If you use the new sleep states (which you should, they're faster and use less power), then the issue won't affect you. It's a minor issue at worst, and a non-existent issue at best.
 
I stand corrected, I had thought that the USB controller had moved on-die, I guess I got ahead of myself.

As for the issue itself, I believe it's even less of an issue that that. Based on what I've read it's limited to not USB 3 devices as a whole, but USB 3 flash drives.
 
I'm waiting for Haswell as well. However, when are these suppose to come out again? I'm only waiting since these processors should be around the corner.

I have an i7 920 at 3.6 GHz running like a champ. Problem is my Asus Rampage mobo died and I'm using a pre-owned Asus W6 mobo that's been a little flaky. I figure after 4 years it's time for a new CPU + MB. I would like to upgrade my ram however I would have to buy them in a 4 pack and only use 3 where the max I can have per slot is 4GB. I rather buy them in pairs of two in 16GB kits.

Not to mention finding replacement motherboards for X58 is expensive (news ones are 300+.) At this point I feel like if something goes wrong it would be just as expensive to replace than to switch to a new setup.
 
RamonGTP said:
I stand corrected, I had thought that the USB controller had moved on-die, I guess I got ahead of myself.

As for the issue itself, I believe it's even less of an issue that that. Based on what I've read it's limited to not USB 3 devices as a whole, but USB 3 flash drives.
Click to expand...

I can understand that maybe you get confused with the PCI-E that are controlled by the processor...
 
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