NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Lots of people jumping up and down about PSUs and graphics cards. This is a prototype, remember? Let me show you how to get a proper answer:

Hey Necere, are you going to adjust the case at all so an ATX PSU will be a more viable option for those who want extra power for OCing and high end graphics cards?
 
And pics next to a Pepsi can would be great to see. (Making the 22nd of April the official Underdog Day).
 
medeyer said:
Lots of people jumping up and down about PSUs and graphics cards. This is a prototype, remember? Let me show you how to get a proper answer:

Hey Necere, are you going to adjust the case at all so an ATX PSU will be a more viable option for those who want extra power for OCing and high end graphics cards?
Click to expand...

The only way to accomplish this is to make the case longer or taller or both. Best option would probably be to make it about 20mm taller to fit the shortest, modular ATX PSUs out there. Then again even that small change adds over a liter to the volume and I think the majority of prospective buyers would rather not increase the size. ;)
 
If you want to go ATX it's easy enough to find a relatively cheap PSU and just mod the cables for what you need for your components. I don't see the big deal in doing so, especially for a case as nice as this one.
 
medeyer said:
Lots of people jumping up and down about PSUs and graphics cards. This is a prototype, remember? Let me show you how to get a proper answer:

Hey Necere, are you going to adjust the case at all so an ATX PSU will be a more viable option for those who want extra power for OCing and high end graphics cards?
Click to expand...
The size is pretty much set as far as we can tell. It's all about figuring out what will and won't fit and if there's any glaring manufacturing problems at this point.
 
This case already supports viable high-end configurations. And with every SFF build, you always need to be aware of the constrictions and work with them.

If we keep adding "2cm here" and "2cm there", this will end up being just another 20L mITX case.
If you really can't live with the fact that you can't use more than one 240mm radiator, no dual-GPU solutions or extreme overclocking, you are obviously in the wrong topic.

This case is perfect as it is, stop trying to ruin it by putting in your personal demands.
 
the small size is the appeal when you go ITX. i think trying to pack as much power into as little a closure as possible is most of the enjoyment for this type of case. If you want to make the enclosure larger you should just stick to mATX.
 
Doing some research on the Silverstone SFF power supplies(SST-ST45SF and SST-ST45SF-G),
I come away very impressed. Silverstone has a GPU supported chart http://www.silverstonetek.com/downloads/PSU/GPU-supportlist.pdf
It shows official support for the GTX680 and 7950, each of which need two 6 pin pci-e connectors.
Because the psu supplies both a 6 and an 8 pin connector, I think it should have the power to support the full power required of the connectors.
If so, both the TITAN and 7970 which require a 6 and 8 pin connector is likely to be OK too.
GTX690 and 7990, perhaps not.
Newer 20nm based cards should arrive next year, so I would expect them to perform even better staying within the current power limits.
 
Personally, I'm hoping Silverstone (or anyone else) releases a quieter SFX unit. No question the ST45SF-G is an excellent unit (and yes I know you can mod it, but I'd like my warranty) it just misses that one checkbox for quietness. That's the only thing a little iffy for me building in this case at the moment.
 
*Daedalus said:
Personally, I'm hoping Silverstone (or anyone else) releases a quieter SFX unit. No question the ST45SF-G is an excellent unit (and yes I know you can mod it, but I'd like my warranty) it just misses that one checkbox for quietness. That's the only thing a little iffy for me building in this case at the moment.
Click to expand...

Silverstone is aware of the complaint and has said they are working on another revision...so hopefully they'll have it ready soon :)
 
forumator said:
Check Tony Ou's post history.
Click to expand...

can you link the post or write the post number? ive read the whole thread but i dont remember anything about a quieter revision. i thought SS was sticking to their position that because their PSUs have to be able to perform in hotter environments too, they wouldnt put in a quieter fan. so it may be fine with the NB for most of us, but they didnt want to use a similar fan stock. if they are going to change it out then that's great news! they would definitely sell a lot of them. :)
 
ekuest said:
can you link the post or write the post number? ive read the whole thread but i dont remember anything about a quieter revision. i thought SS was sticking to their position that because their PSUs have to be able to perform in hotter environments too, they wouldnt put in a quieter fan. so it may be fine with the NB for most of us, but they didnt want to use a similar fan stock. if they are going to change it out then that's great news! they would definitely sell a lot of them. :)
Click to expand...

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039681346&postcount=7

*Daedalus's link didn't work for me, so here's the exact post if you still need it.
 
Pretty exciting stuff if Silverstone is putting out a Rev 2 ST45SF-G around the same time as Haswell hits market...

I think the dimensions of the case are really solid the way they are... The only thing that struck a note with me was this:

crazjayz said:
It's a shame though, 4-5mm wider and a H80i with 2 fans would fit there.
Click to expand...

Changing something ~20mm to fit an ATX modular sounds unwarranted (to me) but if these measurements are on the money it's a pretty small adjustment to make with a big payout.

Sounds dangerous making last minute dimension changes before a production run though.
 
Everyone needs to keep in mind that this is the M1.

Assuming this project is successful I'm sure there will be follow up models to address other use-cases.
 
crABtoad said:
Changing something ~20mm to fit an ATX modular sounds unwarranted (to me) but if these measurements are on the money it's a pretty small adjustment to make with a big payout.
Click to expand...

We are sending out a poll soon to backers on this. 20mm increase in height would accommodate modular ATX and leave more room for cables.

Then again, SilverStone has a new SFX coming out.

We'll have to see what the majority wants.
 
I'll be voting to keep the height as-is, I think.

Given that I have to choose between an ATX PSU and a 240 radiator, I'll pick the radiator every time. (Though that's just me. Not everyone will water cool in this.)
 
wahaha360 said:
We are sending out a poll soon to backers on this. 20mm increase in height would accommodate modular ATX and leave more room for cables.

Then again, SilverStone has a new SFX coming out.

We'll have to see what the majority wants.
Click to expand...

Can you provide the link with the new information on the new SFX that's coming out?

Also is everyone having sound issues with the current SFX power supply? Does the sound issue exists on both the gold and bronze?
 
not sure if adding 20mm is going to really help with having modular PSUs. My Seasonic X-Series and Corsair HX650 Pro would still be too long. Are there many modular PSUs out there that are 140mm +connector clearance?
 
Hmm, in hindsight I should've made a distinction between the 2 points...

If crazjayz's measurement of 4mm to 5mm to fit an H80i with 2 fans is correct, it seems worth it.

The modular ATX PSU clearance thing was kind of muddled into the same post by me... :D
 
Yeah modular PSUs seems to really vary in size, but I've already accepted the current limitation. I might jam in a cheapo cx430 until silverstone releases their new SFX model
 
Two points about increasing the width for an H80i:

  • It would be right up against the PSU, which only has an 80mm intake. This restriction on the exhaust would likely negate much of the benefit of the thicker rad and push-pull fans.
  • Mounting a single 120mm CLC rad in the forward position on the side bracket doesn't seem viable - I tried with an H60i and the tubes just aren't flexible enough. It fits over the motherboard area, but not over the PSU. The thicker H80i would be be even less likely to work.

Regarding the 20mm height increase, this is something I've been contemplating for a while now. There are two compelling reasons for it that address the most oft-repeated and, IMO, valid criticisms: PSU cables and lack of an exhaust fan. 20mm of extra height would allow 140mm modular ATX PSUs to be used, as well as a top 120mm exhaust fan.

I've seen the kinds of builds some people want to try to squeeze in the case, and I'm afraid that the current selection of SFX PSUs and the case cooling setup won't quite cut it for high-performance systems with dual GPU cards. The small height increase could mean the difference in allowing these builds to be viable.

It's a difficult decision, but I don't want to end up with something that's almost awesome because of a stubborn refusal to budge from an arbitrary size target (*coughSG09cough*). Adding 20mm doesn't increase the footprint (arguably more important than overall volume), and the case would still only be just over 10.5 inches tall - not large by any means. The volume increases to 13.6L, which is still less than the SG07 (14.8L) and well below the Node 304 (19.6L).
 
I don't really think it's a good idea to start making changes just to accommodate specific products/requests, even if it's "only" 4-5mm. Seems a little late to be getting greedy for more volume, especially since there's plenty of ITX cases already that will fit all the ATX PSUs and cooling solutions you can ask for.
 
Well, how would the height increase work? Would the motherboard be raised as well? Would the side intake? A little more room probably wouldn't hurt, given the pictures posted (and the build I'm planning) but I think it would be helpful if we could see what you have in mind, as well as a comparison to the existing case to get an idea of just how the size would be affected.

Would I be correct in assuming that if the motherboard was risen 20mm with the rest of the case, that there would be room for a 3.5 HDD in the bottom, even with a card in the third slot?
 
*Daedalus said:
Would I be correct in assuming that if the motherboard was risen 20mm with the rest of the case, that there would be room for a 3.5 HDD in the bottom, even with a card in the third slot?
Click to expand...
No - the motherboard would remain the same distance from the bottom. The space would be added to the top of the case, above the motherboard, to allow for a fan to be mounted there. The PSU bracket would also be moved up, giving room for modular plugs (and a bit more room for cables). The side fan bracket would also be moved up a few mm (not 20), just to allow a bit more room for GPU waterblock fittings/tubing.
 
I came into this late, but am loving these posts - great concept, drawings, photos, ideas et al. I can live with anything under 11". Necere, I respect your judgement - very thoughtful comments & even-keeled responses to this evolving project. Great work all!
 
Necere said:
Regarding the 20mm height increase, this is something I've been contemplating for a while now. There are two compelling reasons for it that address the most oft-repeated and, IMO, valid criticisms: PSU cables and lack of an exhaust fan. 20mm of extra height would allow 140mm modular ATX PSUs to be used, as well as a top 120mm exhaust fan.

I've seen the kinds of builds some people want to try to squeeze in the case, and I'm afraid that the current selection of SFX PSUs and the case cooling setup won't quite cut it for high-performance systems with dual GPU cards. The small height increase could mean the difference in allowing these builds to be viable.

It's a difficult decision, but I don't want to end up with something that's almost awesome because of a stubborn refusal to budge from an arbitrary size target (*coughSG09cough*). Adding 20mm doesn't increase the footprint (arguably more important than overall volume), and the case would still only be just over 10.5 inches tall - not large by any means. The volume increases to 13.6L, which is still less than the SG07 (14.8L) and well below the Node 304 (19.6L).
Click to expand...

If a small increase in size will allow you to target a larger audience, and therefore increase the chances of success for the second round of funding, then it's probably worth it. Top exhaust would probably be useful anyway.
 
Honestly, the only time I'd change the design of the case were if it was mandatory, aka, it was too hard to make a normal build in there, or impossible, or something wasn't considered when planning.

For starters, this case was designed with SFX in mind, and only later ATX was added. Now, not only people complain about ATX choices... some even mentioned making the case bigger for it!

So, unless its a proven necessity due to the case not being big enough to handle a SFX psu and all the cords that go with, I'd say no as a contributor of this project.

I think we all knew what this was about when we jumped onboard...

PS: keep in mind that dimension was very clear when people decided to contribute on the case. I, for one, wouldn't be very happy if the project changed all of a sudden, because I voted with my wallet for what I wanted (and also, If you guys change this now, what may you change in the future? One day you have to set something in stone, and be done with it).
 
Silverghost said:
First you gotta build a system with a 690 or and old 6990 and see how it runs.
Click to expand...

Why should they? They can't possibly test every single configuration there is. Heck, not even the top brands do it, and neither should they. Its on every single one of the interested people to understand the risks and everything, SPECIALLY when getting into such a niche project like this.

For what I know, the goal wasn't about making the most powerful and smallest mITX possible... but to make a sleek, small and functional design. This was never a performance over everything else, but to prove the world that you can make something very functional at 12L, which the industry hasn't released yet.
 
Adding the extra 20mm would be take the case from being a great case to being the perfect case.

Just gotta make sure all measurements are perfect when making the change.

Still would have smaller footprint and overall volume compared to my Sugo 08, but the superior design of the Ncase M1 would blow the Sugo 08 out of the water.
 
I'd prefer to keep the current height, unless the current height will render almost all components unusable.
1) SFF, and especially a niche case like this, is where you choose components to fit a case and its size, not choosing (or making) a case that fits all your dream components. Of course, I'm talking about stuff like powerful PSU and GPUs only.
2) Case was designed with SFX PSU in mind at first.
3) Top fan imo isn't that necessary when there's a side fan. If a 25mm side fan doesn't fit, get a slimmer fan since static pressure isn't important.

But, I'm seriously not anal about the height increase. If Necere decides it's better after testing the prototype, I'll respect his decision.
 
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prava said:
Why should they? They can't possibly test every single configuration there is.
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No shit. That why I said a 6990. A hot, power sucking, worse case scenario card. If it doesn't overheat and the Seasonic SFX power can handle it, they can tell the case size complainers there are no issues.
 
If the case increases in any dimension, I'm out.

I'd still love to see a future version just like the M1, but with only 2 slots (with corresponding reduction in height), SFX only PSU oriented fan fore or aft (with corresponding reduction in length) for a TRUE SG05 evolution & SFF case.
 
I'm totally digging the 3rd slot. I'm hoping to get one of these cases and a m-itx board with a mpci-e slot, and using a pci-e 1x to mpci-e adapter, so I can jam a sound card in there along side a 2 slot gpu. Really looking forward to this case!
 
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