You’ll Never Upload Your Mind Into A Computer

BBA said:
Speed is only part of the equation.

Think of it like this: Say you transport people overseas commercially, would you: A.) Make 400 trips in a two seat airplane to carry one passenger at a time at high speed. -or- B.) Make one trip with 400 passengers in a big slow jumbo jet? The answer is B, as the one trip will take less time moving all the people at once than making 400 trips in the two seater, even though it goes much faster.

The brain does massive parallel processing, as in everything process at the same time. There are no limits to the amounts of threads it processes, so there is no need to run super fast.
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Then again, certain conditions require faster trips of compact pieces. Speed is very important and can't be dismissed. Parallelism is not magical perfect solution to every problem. I'd argue that the whole "brain wave frequency" argument is extremely short-sighted.

40 Hz is nothing. We all experience motion blur, yet we're perfectly capable of detecting extreme frame rates. Can you imagine experiencing the world in just 40 frames per second? Do you not feel the difference between 40 and 120 FPS? Even if perfectly synchronized, we generally require way more. Have you ever noticed how fast your eyelids react to bugs/other small things heading to your eyes? That would be impossible at 40 Hz.

Even games have different tick rates for the server and the client. Generally, 40 Hz would be enough for the server updates, though clients requires more. My point is that even if the main system as a whole ticks at 40 Hz, individual components function at much higher rates.
 
It's not if you can do this type of thing, its if "they" have you believe you can. This is to take the upcoming burden off of healthcare. If you are going to be a drain on the collective resources how is it for "them" to be out of line when they insist you to terminate your life early with the promise of living inside the machine?
 
This reminds me of why I would never use the teleporters if I were in the Star Trek universe. I've always thought of them, based on they way they've been explained, as destroying whoever steps onto them and creating an exact copy somewhere else. So the first time Kirk or Picard ever got teleported, they died The rest of the show is about a series of copies of them that were made by every teleporter use.
 
Super-D said:
This reminds me of why I would never use the teleporters if I were in the Star Trek universe. I've always thought of them, based on they way they've been explained, as destroying whoever steps onto them and creating an exact copy somewhere else. So the first time Kirk or Picard ever got teleported, they died The rest of the show is about a series of copies of them that were made by every teleporter use.
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And even Star Trek had to cheat Heisenberg ... although they at least acknowledged it by having the transporter depend on the Heisenberg compensator circuit ... Quantum physics is not just a theory, IT IS THE LAW :p :D
 
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Even if we never have the ability to "run" the downloaded mind in any way or form in the virtual world. It would still be awesome to have a durable "backup" of one's mind should anything bad ever happen.

Even if you are limited to running a "backup" on a biological system - it would be awesome medicine wise, say you were in an accident and took a car to the noggin' Whip up some new brain cells and then download the latest copy of "you" back into your (fixed) body.

There's really no way to answer the question of "soul" or "essence" till it was attempted. If a procedure like this was done on my dad, and after everything is said and done, if he acts/responds like I know my dad would... then huzzah science!

If on the other hand he's still a totally different person then it could easily be argued something was missed in the download.
 
Every "you" is different. From different points in time etc. A very good computer copy would be another "you." It would just be running at another time and place. Try to understand that you are not the person you were moments ago. "You" is just the current emergent property of your current state.

or something........
 
So, you can copy the consciousness, but can you run it? I am sure we can make a copy, which is fine. But, can you create a process that actually lets you 'run' the information? Can you allow that information to continue 'thinking' as if it were still conscious?

You can put all the information you want into a computer. It just doesn't know what to do with it without a program telling it so. The 'human program' is very complex and varies from person to person (small amounts), changes with various chemical amounts (which vary from individuals). So, just having the information, history, experiences, etc. from the mind doesn't make a mind. You have to have the original 'program' to allow all that information to be processed correctly. Get it wrong, and you could have someone that interprets those memories in a different way. Could make them very successful, or a loony.

So, you have the information. Just need the correct interpreter. And there are probably millions (billions) of variations of that.

It'll happen sometime, but it will start out fairly badly I'm guessing.
 
I would go with what one scientist said in regards to transporters-- the amount of storage needed to store the data of a full human body before transporting it exceeds the amount of matter in the Milky Way. (Well, something along those lines.)

So, just imagine how much storage is needed to store a lifetime's worth of the human mind. We're talking audio and visual data, plus data that relates to bodily functions, memories of touch, pain, etc. It's quite a lot of data to store and I don't think in our lifetime or the next and the one after will have figured out it.
 
I just want to upload my brain to the cloud and then download it into a bender robot so i can drink twice as much beer and talk 2 myself!
 
talk2troy said:
I just want to upload my brain to the cloud and then download it into a bender robot so i can drink twice as much beer and talk 2 myself!
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What I'd like is a Johnny Mnemonic kind of thing-- ability to plug in memory modules into our brain, and/or like The Matrix, the ability to learn new things.

"I learned jujitsu."

That would be awesome. It'd be easier for me to learn a new language that way.
 
I'll do anything I want!!!!!

But really, I read the headline earlier and thought of something else: fractal compression. On images converted using certain types of fractal compression, you can zoom in even beyond the details that were available in the original. So what I mean is that it may not be necessary to copy everything, just get an essence of the property being modeled and come up with something "close enough" to the original.
 
personally like someone else said, i'd be more interested in seeing the ability to backup/restore/regen the body moreso than sending the mind into a virtual world.
life extension and regeneration is probably a lot closer in the pipeline than mind downloading.
for me if/when downloading is achievable, that really what it's about for me, continuing to exist as long as possible. A single lifetime is not long enough to know or experience everything.

personally i don't care about the moral ethical standpoint of uploading, close enough to continue on is good enough for me.
 
the lawnmower man and devil are probably 2 movies we should be teaching to our children. adios i am going to watch the lawnmower man...:)
 
kbrickley said:
I was thinking of it in the ability to exactly copy a living mind in its entirety ... I suspect there might be sufficient complexity there that you would run into the Uncertainty Principle in trying to make an exact nerve for nerve/memory for memory/personality for personality copy

I don't think it would prevent us from eventually creating a mind of equivalent complexity or maybe even superior capability but copying the essence of my specific personality might not be possible due to the Uncertainty principle ... in my opinion :cool:
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You might be right...in copying digital data, sometimes corruption happens during the copy process, that would be frightening...how would it show up as well? Immediately, or slowly over time?.....As for the teleportation, I still remember watching Star Trek: The Original Motion Picture in the scene where the people die because the Teleporter went on the fritz... pretty scary for a 9 yr. old. :eek:
 
octoberasian said:
I would go with what one scientist said in regards to transporters-- the amount of storage needed to store the data of a full human body before transporting it exceeds the amount of matter in the Milky Way. (Well, something along those lines.)

So, just imagine how much storage is needed to store a lifetime's worth of the human mind. We're talking audio and visual data, plus data that relates to bodily functions, memories of touch, pain, etc. It's quite a lot of data to store and I don't think in our lifetime or the next and the one after will have figured out it.
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That's silly. If that were true, the human body wouldn't be able to exist since there wouldn't be enough matter in the Milky Way to support one of us.

Also, .rar files.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
That's silly. If that were true, the human body wouldn't be able to exist since there wouldn't be enough matter in the Milky Way to support one of us.

Also, .rar files.
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That scientist was talking about storage mediums. To store how the atoms are arranged in our body from molecules to full-fledge organs, our memories and identity would exceed any known storage medium, And, if it did exist, according to him, that amount of data would exceed the amount of matter in the galaxy.

I don't know if that's a preposterous explanation or our human bodies are that much elegantly and efficiently designed.

And, the thought of compressing us into a .RAR or .ZIP file makes me imagine Honey I Shrunk the Kids in some form.
"Winzip version 832.5 now supports compression of human data at a maximum of 80:1 compression ratios for easy teleportation to-and-from supported teleporter systems.
Systems must support real-time compression and decompression, 128 Teraquads of holographic memory per human being minimum (256 TQD recommended), and pattern buffers built after 2375 or later.

Minimum LCARS v.12 required and additional 1024 Teraquads of holographic memory for software."​
 
evilsofa said:
Well, that's good. Isn't there already enough porn on the Internet?
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But... but... think about it: The ability to download said pornographic actor(s) and actress(es) to a 3D holographic projection system for easy viewing in your living room, bedroom, or basement.

Isn't that convenient?
 
octoberasian said:
That scientist was talking about storage mediums. To store how the atoms are arranged in our body from molecules to full-fledge organs, our memories and identity would exceed any known storage medium, And, if it did exist, according to him, that amount of data would exceed the amount of matter in the galaxy.

I don't know if that's a preposterous explanation or our human bodies are that much elegantly and efficiently designed.

And, the thought of compressing us into a .RAR or .ZIP file makes me imagine Honey I Shrunk the Kids in some form.
"Winzip version 832.5 now supports compression of human data at a maximum of 80:1 compression ratios for easy teleportation to-and-from supported teleporter systems.
Systems must support real-time compression and decompression, 128 Teraquads of holographic memory per human being minimum (256 TQD recommended), and pattern buffers built after 2375 or later.

Minimum LCARS v.12 required and additional 1024 Teraquads of holographic memory for software."​
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I think what we're missing is a clear enough understand of how a human works to really accurately estimate what it would take to store everything aspect of one in a computer system.
 
The technology is a long way off. Sorting out the copyright violation issues is even further off.
 
Flashback for me, can anyone remember that futuristic movie where the bad guy always clones himself so that he never "dies", and at one point the clone comes out prematurely looking all slimy white skinned and the guy is still alive so the clone goes after him. I keep wanting to think Judge Dredd, but I don't think it was that one.
 
Flashback for me, can anyone remember that futuristic movie where the bad guy always clones himself so that he never "dies", and at one point the clone comes out prematurely looking all slimy white skinned and the guy is still alive so the clone goes after him. I keep wanting to think Judge Dredd, but I don't think it was that one.
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John Stamos said:
220px-Sixth_day.jpg
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Reminds me of the movie "Freejack". Not exactly an oscar worthy movie, but did have the digitized souls theme in it.
 
Even if you did make a successful copy, what actually would be your consciousness? For example say you "teleported" someone by deconstructing them on one end and rebuilding them on the other... isn't that new build just a copy of you? Would you then be dead, and the copy would be "you" and behave like you, but not be you? Same thing goes for cloning yourself "back from the dead". Let's just say I don't think I could trust a teleporter :p.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Even if you did make a successful copy, what actually would be your consciousness? For example say you "teleported" someone by deconstructing them on one end and rebuilding them on the other... isn't that new build just a copy of you? Would you then be dead, and the copy would be "you" and behave like you, but not be you? Same thing goes for cloning yourself "back from the dead". Let's just say I don't think I could trust a teleporter :p.
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I wouldn't trust it especially if Hugh Jackman were at the controls :eek: ... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0482571/?ref_=sr_1 ...
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