Microsoft Stock Downgraded by Analysts

I doubt that Windows 8 selling or not selling has anything to do with Windows 8.

Far more likely is that a tremendous amount of people are still (happily) stuck on Windows XP.
It took a prybar to get people to start upgrading to Windows 7. In fact, people were still whining about Windows 7 up to last year all over these boards right up until Windows 8 launched.

They never had any intention of upgrading anyway. A lot of the people bitching about it finally bought Windows 7 when it was $20 or free through some technet-ish giveaway deals. The threads are findable if you doubt what I'm writing. So now we're going to hear about how shitty Windows 8 is until Windows 9 or maybe 10 launches and Windows 8 is basically free.

The UI is a non-issue and the missing start menu is a non-issue. I'm completely amazed that anyone calling themselves a power user was even using the Start menu. The only time I used the Start menu was to drag the shortcut out on the desktop or the taskbar if it wasn't automatically placed there already.

Who the fuck was using the Start menu to start programs that they used all the time? What a horribly inefficient and boneheaded way to use the computer. Didn't you guys place your commonly used crap somewhere on your desktop?
 
I think a lot of analysts and influential folks have bought over priced Apple stock and are damn scared that the party is coming to an end and want to deflect attention.

Read some of the latest reports and yes MS has a downturn but if you look in the small print you'll see a worldwide downturn in Apple's Macbook/PC ranges. iPads are doing fantastic but they are slaughtering the rest of Apple's business. In fact Apples worldwide computing sales don't even get their own mention often, they just get bundled in with the 'Other section' to hide it.

I find it odd that a lot of these reports have all started to appear as soon as the Apple stock started to go down instead of up.
 
mope54 said:
Who the fuck was using the Start menu to start programs that they used all the time? What a horribly inefficient and boneheaded way to use the computer. Didn't you guys place your commonly used crap somewhere on your desktop?
Click to expand...

Yeah I must admit drilling down through the Start Menu does feel very retarted to me. It's like playing a game of Operation to get to the application you want. Buzzzz damn I moved a pixel too far!

Since 7 came out with pinning stuff to the Taskbar I pretty much only used the Start Menu for Restart and Shutdown. It was then I realised Microsoft's reason for getting rid of it. It was largely redundant for 98% of the stuff in there.

I can't imagine anyone here really loves drilling down through layers of program folders to find their most used applications?

I add the most used dozen or so the the Taskbar and another dozen or so second tier applications to the Desktop as Shortcuts.

The rest get used once in a bluemoon.
 
Is Windows 8 also responsible for the drop in sales of all personal computers, say like Macs?

Depressed PC sales are not about Windows 8.
 
I most certainly can't manage to summon anything but apathy over this entire thing. A company's stock performance is so far removed from my decision about purchasing one of their products that it can't be and won't ever be a factor.
 
mope54 said:
Who the fuck was using the Start menu to start programs that they used all the time? What a horribly inefficient and boneheaded way to use the computer. Didn't you guys place your commonly used crap somewhere on your desktop?
Click to expand...

On the desktop? Nope, they get pinned to the taskbar or left on the start menu. I never see the desktop, since it's covered by all the open windows. I haven't even bothered to change the wallpaper from the default for years.

There are plenty of people with forests of icons on their desktops though, so whatever works for them. I always wonder why they don't get annoyed when they have to minimizing the stuff they're working on to get to another resource. If I was an evil person, I'd right click their desktop and autosort them all in a new and exciting way. :p
 
mope54 said:
Who the fuck was using the Start menu to start programs that they used all the time? What a horribly inefficient and boneheaded way to use the computer. Didn't you guys place your commonly used crap somewhere on your desktop?
Click to expand...

That's fine if you only ever use about a dozen programs. The analogy to a physical desktop is real. The physical desktop is where you place things you're working on. Things you're not are filed neatly in drawers where you can access them quickly and efficiently. Scattering things about on a physical desk is just a mess and makes things get lost in the piles of papers, and the same applies to a PCs desktop or a large block menus without subfolders like Metro.

For example, As I write this I have about 5 windows open and covering my PC desktop. If I wanted to open a program that has only a desktop shortcut, and it's buried under all these open windows, how do I select it? Close all my windows or rearrange them? Not very efficient. On the other hand, with my start menu I click it and the (Win 7) menu comes up over any active windows. I have pinned there about a half-dozen programs I use often, and there are about a dozen others that come up automatically based on previous use. If I want a specific Word file, the Word program link is there, and hovering the mouse brings up the submenu list of all the recently opened documents without even clicking.

So in my Win 7 menu, I have 11 standard and optional system folders on the right with automatic opening subfolders (Control Panel, Games, User folders, etc.), about ten recently opened programs, about 6 pinned programs (each with automatic opening subfolders), the All Programs folder (also organized into subfolders by me by program type), and the dozen or so task bar links.

There isn't enough desktop space for all that, and trying to organize icons on a desktop is a waste because a single hiccup in the graphics driver will give them a shuffle.

So yeah, if you have only a handful of programs you ever use and can get them all to fit on the taskbar or on the edge of the screen where you can see them around open windows, a menu can be unnecessary. And for those programs and files that you didn't create a desktop shortcut for you're OK with finding the file manually in Explorer. Sometimes, though, even a program has more than just the exe you want. For example, Nero 10 has about 10 program links to it, and there are a dozen or so pdf manuals for each. Just having those would use about two columns of icons. Do I use them all the time? no, but I do occasionally and I can get them from the menu pretty quickly. Otherwise, I'd have to find the file in Windows Explorer, and you have to guess which subfolder the file is buried in.

My biggest criticism of the Windows 7 menu is the difficulty in organizing it. Just finding the shortcuts is a pain, especially since the Menu can be formed over multiple start menu folders.

But to say a menu is silly for everyone because you can get by with a few program shortcuts scattered across your screen is a rather bold statement to make.
 
On my 22" 1080p IPS monitor I can fit approx 25+ icons on my Taskbar. How many main applications do folks use on average?

I guess you must be using a 1993 spec 14" 800x600 monitor? And you use Nero??

I can even fit around 25 on my 11" Chromebook's taskbar.
 
Mr. Perfect said:
On the desktop? Nope, they get pinned to the taskbar or left on the start menu. I never see the desktop, since it's covered by all the open windows. I haven't even bothered to change the wallpaper from the default for years.

There are plenty of people with forests of icons on their desktops though, so whatever works for them. I always wonder why they don't get annoyed when they have to minimizing the stuff they're working on to get to another resource. If I was an evil person, I'd right click their desktop and autosort them all in a new and exciting way. :p
Click to expand...
I agree with you but in this case I was using "desktop" to include the desktop, the taskbar, and the notification area rather than typing that all out.

I have about 16 applications pinned to the taskbar, eight running in the notification area, and various misc left on the desktop (usually around 6-10 things I might be working on currently).

Apparently people aren't aware that in Windows 8 (and 7) one can right click on the taskbar and "show desktop", hit the windows key + q to search for an app (can't remember what it was in windows 7 but the functionality was there), and any "recent" work is accessible via the application's context menu (office has a recent documents you don't need the windows 7 start menu for that).


I'm not knocking anyone who wants to continue using the start menu I'm just surprised that anyone here feels they need it so badly *and* is unwilling to just install something that gives it to them rather than complaining incessantly about Windows 8. In short, it certainly appears that people around here are complaining to complain. Meanwhile the rest of the world is simply doing what they always do--refusing to upgrade from what they're using regardless of whatever Windows 8 does or does not offer.
 
Max Mike said:
Is Windows 8 also responsible for the drop in sales of all personal computers, say like Macs?

Depressed PC sales are not about Windows 8.
Click to expand...

Youre not shining a light on anything previously unknown, no ones disputing that. The point is Windows 8 had an opportunity to slow the decline and instead its helping to speed it up. Microsoft could not have picked a worse time to try to push the touchscreen PC gimmick since doing so alienated longtime windows users and corporations.
 
daglesj said:
On my 22" 1080p IPS monitor I can fit approx 25+ icons on my Taskbar. How many main applications do folks use on average?

I guess you must be using a 1993 spec 14" 800x600 monitor? And you use Nero??

I can even fit around 25 on my 11" Chromebook's taskbar.
Click to expand...

No, I'm using 3 x 24" monitors. Not everything pins to the taskbar, and if there is no start menu how do you start the 26th application that you didn't place there? Where do you find the pdf instructions for the game or program? Many programs have multiple shortcuts to sub-programs and txt & pdf files that should be grouped together, and normally are when installed with a start menu.

Sure, Win 8 can have a third-party menu program, and I have installed Classic Shell on both my installations. Before that, my family complained they couldn't find their programs easily and avoided using Win 8 until I did. It still baffles me that someone like yourself insists that because you have 25 icons on the taskbar and that works for you, that's all anyone should need and the ability to easily find the hundreds of less-used files and programs should be unimportant compared to the glory of using the latest version of Microsoft's finest. :rolleyes:
 
yossarian said:
No, I'm using 3 x 24" monitors. Not everything pins to the taskbar, and if there is no start menu how do you start the 26th application that you didn't place there? Where do you find the pdf instructions for the game or program? Many programs have multiple shortcuts to sub-programs and txt & pdf files that should be grouped together, and normally are when installed with a start menu.
Click to expand...
Move your mouse pointer to the bottom-left corner of the screen, right-click, click on "search" and all of that stuff you're asking about it laid out in an even easier form than drilling down through a context menu.

Sure, Win 8 can have a third-party menu program, and I have installed Classic Shell on both my installations. Before that, my family complained they couldn't find their programs easily and avoided using Win 8 until I did. It still baffles me that someone like yourself insists that because you have 25 icons on the taskbar and that works for you, that's all anyone should need and the ability to easily find the hundreds of less-used files and programs should be unimportant compared to the glory of using the latest version of Microsoft's finest. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
you can actually just create a "start menu" toolbar by creating a new toolbar and navigating to your username's start menu folder. no third party menu programs necessary

and no one is saying that what works for us is what everyone else should be doing but we are questioning your making mountains out of molehills
 
yossarian said:
No, I'm using 3 x 24" monitors. Not everything pins to the taskbar, and if there is no start menu how do you start the 26th application that you didn't place there? Where do you find the pdf instructions for the game or program? Many programs have multiple shortcuts to sub-programs and txt & pdf files that should be grouped together, and normally are when installed with a start menu.

Sure, Win 8 can have a third-party menu program, and I have installed Classic Shell on both my installations. Before that, my family complained they couldn't find their programs easily and avoided using Win 8 until I did. It still baffles me that someone like yourself insists that because you have 25 icons on the taskbar and that works for you, that's all anyone should need and the ability to easily find the hundreds of less-used files and programs should be unimportant compared to the glory of using the latest version of Microsoft's finest. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Picking at straws is the phrase that springs to mind.

Looking for the game pdf indeed. Most of that crap is once in a blue moon stuff. Again it hardly warrants the amount of "windows 8 is crap cos I cant find a pdf!"

Power users that cant find pdfs. Jeez.
 
mope54 said:
Move your mouse pointer to the bottom-left corner of the screen, right-click, click on "search" and all of that stuff you're asking about it laid out in an even easier form than drilling down through a context menu.

you can actually just create a "start menu" toolbar by creating a new toolbar and navigating to your username's start menu folder. no third party menu programs necessary

and no one is saying that what works for us is what everyone else should be doing but we are questioning your making mountains out of molehills
Click to expand...

You seem to be missing the fact that convoluted and hidden tricks are lost on the bulk of end users - and ignoring that group means forfeiting the bulk of potential sales. The issue here is conveyance or lack - hiding so many things means they aren't intuitive. It wasn't broke and MS is trying to fix it; they've taken things away and replaced with tablet-friendly alternatives that do not make sense for desktop users. If you believe Sinofsky's self-serving assertion that "people weren't really using the start menu and often just using the taskbar instead", then the notion that they'd blow it up to FULL SCREEN is absurd.

Its a little disingenuous to go on and on trying to rationalize that desktop users are the problem rather than the tiled tablet interface, or that theres some great increase in usability in functionality that desktop users just aren't seeing. More respectable is to just admit this for what it is - an attempt at taking a shortcut to tablet & phone & appstore relevance by sending desktop users down the river to make app developers believe Metro is more popular than it really is, just long enough to get the pump primed, then add desktop features back in later. Unfortunately that plan has backfired.
 
uh no, I'm not missing any fact. The problem in the discussion is people trying to meld average user experience with the once-in-a-bluemoon necessity to find a game's pdf!

The average user doesn't need to do any kind of convoluted or hidden tricks to use Windows 8. The average user will use a *few* applications and those applications will be pinned to the taskbar. If the average user needs to do any kind of system maintenance or control panel stuff (rarely, if ever, if my past interactions with many average users over the past decades is any indication) is right there with a right-click where the start menu used to be.

In the infrequent case where there's a program or file that needs to be found that is not on the taskbar that same right click where the start menu used to be offers an option to "Search... which is about as intuitive as it can be for someone with little to no computer experience.

If someone doesn't see what they need and can't figure out that in order to find it they should click on "Search..." then that same person would be even more lost with the classic Start Menu context options.

The rest of it, where I recommend someone right click on their taskbar and create a new toolbar, is advice for the power user who seems to think it necessary to drill through various pdf's and misc. files that are rarely accessed and doesn't want to burden himself with clicking "Search..." or Windows+Q

If you think that Windows+Q or right-click bottom left corner (where the start menu used to be) and clicking on "Search..." is convoluted or a hidden trick then how could you possibly function with the classic Start Menu? Is your position that right-clicking is more convoluted than left-clicking? Perhaps you should use a Mac single button mouse then you wouldn't have to worry about those convoluted UI interactions.
 
I see so much written by 'power users' that state Windows 8 isn't for power users but the things they moan about are just the things a true power user would laugh at and shrug off.

Its bizarre. I think we have a lot here that overestimate their ability.
 
daglesj said:
Picking at straws is the phrase that springs to mind.

Looking for the game pdf indeed. Most of that crap is once in a blue moon stuff. Again it hardly warrants the amount of "windows 8 is crap cos I cant find a pdf!"

Power users that cant find pdfs. Jeez.
Click to expand...

I have 323 programs installed, and that doesn't include files that I occasionally use. Yes, I can find the pdf, assuming I remember it's even there two years from now when I need it. And that's if I look in the installation folder. Use Search? Fine if you know what it's called. Those "once in a blue moon" files taken together mean a lot of digging that is easier in an organized list.

This may come as a surprise to you, but most PC users aren't "power users".

But hey, you can sit back and scoff all you want as you bask in those MS sales figures that are proving those less enlightened wrong.

And if you recall, I was simply responding to Mope54 saying "Who the fuck was using the Start menu to start programs that they used all the time? What a horribly inefficient and boneheaded way to use the computer. Didn't you guys place your commonly used crap somewhere on your desktop?" Had nothing to do with whether Win 8 was good or bad, after all I own two copies of it...
 
Microsoft is using windows 8 to manipulate the average user. Here we build our own computers and customize everything about them,

The average user doesn't do any of that they buy a computer and they use it until they think it's too slow or it dies. Then they go to bestbuy and get a new one off the shelf. Now when they buy a new computer they're forced to get windows 8 which they will learn eventually.

Now when they need a new phone and they see a windows phone at the store they're going to say hey that looks like my computer, i know how to use that; ill take this one.

I don't like the interface on windows 8 either, sticking with windows 7 for now.
 
brfitzp1337 said:
Now when they need a new phone and they see a windows phone at the store they're going to say hey that looks like my computer, i know how to use that; ill take this one.
Click to expand...

Microsoft's 2% smartphone market share would say otherwise.
 
brfitzp1337 said:
Now when they need a new phone and they see a windows phone at the store they're going to say hey that looks like my computer, i know how to use that; ill take this one.

I don't like the interface on windows 8 either, sticking with windows 7 for now.
Click to expand...

You indicate at the end you don't like the interface, which is how many other people feel, so the problem with your first sentence about people recognizing metro on a phone or tablet is they're instead going to say 'hey I know that interface, I hate it, I'll avoid this phone/tablet' - even though the interface was designed for mobile devices and makes more sense in that context.

MS should have left well enough alone and let user dictate platform instead of platform trying to dictate user. MS got away with it in the past when they held a monopoly but there are too many other and better choices nowadays especially in tablets and phones, they have to build a better product now instead of relying on trying to lock people in and wear them down until they learn to tolerate because they have no other choice.
 
yossarian said:
This may come as a surprise to you, but most PC users aren't "power users".
Click to expand...

I don't class myself a power user either.

However, myself and many others have all managed to adapt and learn Windows 8 just fine. Whilst it appears many so called 'power users' are struggling. They don't appear to know about setting default apps, adding stuff to the Taskbar, seeing the desktop from the Taskbar, using Windows Search etc. They don't even appear to know how to install a Start menu app if they really need it.

Some then say "well you shouldn't need to configure Windows to use it!" But as they are 'power users' are we to believe they build a new Windows XP or 7 machine and do ZERO adjustments and tweaks to it before using it? Of course they don't. We all adjust the OS we use to suit our needs.


It just doesn't add up really. Power users that can't do some simple configuration or don't believe modifications are right?:confused:
 
I was searching the internet and cam across this article about what people think about Windows 8 from a couple weeks back. Seems pretty interesting, since I only hear opinions from enthusiasts. My opinion on Windows 8 is really indifferent. I could see myself getting used to the interface. The only reason why I choose not to upgrade, is because I see no reason to. Now as far as decline in sales, I think it has to do with tablets and mobile phones more than anything else. Sure Windows 8 may be partially to blame, but people just don't seem to need a full desktop for computing anymore. It's just cause of the big bulky form factor. Think of it this way. How many non-techie people actually use their pcs for anything other than internet browsing, word processing, and Minecraft? Tablets can do all those things. Sure, a tablet isn't best for productivity, but the average consumer doesn't care. If it looks sleek and does what they want it to, then they won't think twice.
 
odditory said:
You indicate at the end you don't like the interface, which is how many other people feel, so the problem with your first sentence about people recognizing metro on a phone or tablet is they're instead going to say 'hey I know that interface, I hate it, I'll avoid this phone/tablet' - even though the interface was designed for mobile devices and makes more sense in that context.

MS should have left well enough alone and let user dictate platform instead of platform trying to dictate user. MS got away with it in the past when they held a monopoly but there are too many other and better choices nowadays especially in tablets and phones, they have to build a better product now instead of relying on trying to lock people in and wear them down until they learn to tolerate because they have no other choice.
Click to expand...

But we can choose to avoid the interface. Average people will see that every computer at best buy and walmart has it and theyll most likely just accept it.
 
odditory said:
Youre not shining a light on anything previously unknown, no ones disputing that. The point is Windows 8 had an opportunity to slow the decline and instead its helping to speed it up. Microsoft could not have picked a worse time to try to push the touchscreen PC gimmick since doing so alienated longtime windows users and corporations.
Click to expand...

If you actually think Windows 8 was going to slow the decline you do not understand what is going on. It is very small subset of PC users that even care what is in Windows 8.

We are in the middle of a sea-change that windows 8 is irrelevant to.
 
Max Mike said:
If you actually think Windows 8 was going to slow the decline you do not understand what is going on. It is very small subset of PC users that even care what is in Windows 8.

We are in the middle of a sea-change that windows 8 is irrelevant to.
Click to expand...

Yep, it's huge.

Google hasn't even started pushing Chromebooks/ChromeOS yet and that's the perfect setup for a lot of people out there.

Users have so many more options than they did say 10 years ago, even 5 years ago.

Had Windows 8 been a super version of Windows 7 with no touch interface it still would have been in decline.

Years ago I had a choice of a 400W Desktop or a Laptop.

Now I have a Desktop, a laptop, a tablet, a smartphone and a chromebook.

Each of those use a DIFFERENT OS on them and also different ways of interacting with data and other users.

We now have a much bigger melting pot.
 
For me I file this under not a big deal. Microsoft has shown in the past that they do make mistakes and sometimes don't release the greatest product.

They have shown in the past an ability to usually bounce back especially with their OS.

They released ME which was awful and bounced back with XP. They released Vista which was terrible and bounced back with 7.


I think Microsoft will be just fine.
 
qbanb8582 said:
For me I file this under not a big deal. Microsoft has shown in the past that they do make mistakes and sometimes don't release the greatest product.

They have shown in the past an ability to usually bounce back especially with their OS.

They released ME which was awful and bounced back with XP. They released Vista which was terrible and bounced back with 7.


I think Microsoft will be just fine.
Click to expand...

The difference is, at those times, PC sales were still very brisk. Now PC sales are in decline and mobile device sales, which MS doesn't have a very large slice of, is booming. Past performance does not predict future performance. Maybe they will bounce back, but because they did so in the past doesn't mean they will be able to do it again. What I predict is that MS is going to slide into irrelevance. Maybe not now, maybe not in 5 years, but unless they can actually focus on what the customer wants and not what they want the customer to want, they'll continue this downward spiral.
 
wtburnette said:
The difference is, at those times, PC sales were still very brisk. Now PC sales are in decline and mobile device sales, which MS doesn't have a very large slice of, is booming. Past performance does not predict future performance. Maybe they will bounce back, but because they did so in the past doesn't mean they will be able to do it again. What I predict is that MS is going to slide into irrelevance. Maybe not now, maybe not in 5 years, but unless they can actually focus on what the customer wants and not what they want the customer to want, they'll continue this downward spiral.
Click to expand...

Agree about the PC sales in decline. But Microsoft is gotten pretty diverse over the years. The next Xbox will keep them relevant for the foreseeable future. Not to mention the xbox 360 is still doing very well as far as selling units this far into the console's life cycle.

I will agree they have a long way to go in the mobile market. To be irrelevant they would have to be foolish like RIM which I don't see microsoft doing. I also will acknowledge they're not invincible and releasing bad products will catch up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top