New Build - Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8 Pro

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Kelvarr

Supreme [H]ardness
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So my Sister In Law and her husband want me to build a new machine for them. I am their primary support, so I don't mind, and know what I'm getting into. For the OS part of the build, I'm wondering if I should go with Windows 7 Pro 64bit or Windows 8 Pro 64bit?

I know that if I go Windows 8 Pro, I will be getting rid of the Metro Interface via Start8 or some other such hack.
 
If you are providing the main support, stick with what you know. I run Win8 pro x64 myself, but with new build for family members I stick with Win7. I provide most of their support and I do not like headaches.
 
Go with 7. The difference between 7 and 8 performance wise is negligible (despite 8's better memory management). Fake Start Menu's are OK for people willing to troubleshoot, but if you know they are going to require the Start Menu, don't give them a fake one. Give them the one that will work every time, because who knows what update may screw up the the fake one. Keep in mind the fake Start Menu is just another app that requires patching and can crash.
 
Get Windows 8, take the 20 minutes necessary to effectively begin using the start screen instead of the old start menu, and enjoy.

Pin your top applications to the taskbar, configure some desktop shortcuts, and enjoy being able to jump to the start screen for live tiles.

Anybody who hacks Win8 to get rid of the start screen are only hurting their experience by refusing to learn and understand.

Plus, the "Refresh PC without losing Files" option will make your family tech support days much easier.
 
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Forget Windows 8, odds are they know Windows 7 and thus stick to it. Start8 doesn't make up for the suck that is the Windows 8 UI, it only partially fixes one aspect of it.

bcrisp82 said:
Anybody who hacks Win8 to get rid of the start screen are only hurting their experience by refusing to learn and understand.
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Seems to me what you are refusing to learn and understand is that some people value an UI that was designed around being operated with a keyboard and a mouse over an UI that was designed to be operated with a touch screen.
 
bcrisp82 said:
Get Windows 8, take the 20 minutes necessary to effectively begin using the start screen instead of the old start menu, and enjoy.

Pin your top applications to the taskbar, configure some desktop shortcuts, and enjoy being able to jump to the start screen for live tiles.

Anybody who hacks Win8 to get rid of the start screen are only hurting their experience by refusing to learn and understand.

Plus, the "Refresh PC without losing Files" option will make your family tech support days much easier.
Click to expand...

I agree with bcrisp82.

Been on Win 8 for a week come tomorrow. With a little time spent configuring the Live Tiles + a few shortcuts on the desktop and re-creating the Quick Launch menu for some other items... I really like it.
 
I say Windows 8, if you have a choice there is no reason not to use it. If you already have 7 laying around use 7, but I'm enjoying Windows 8. There is a lot of just flat out hate for 8, just because there is no start button, overall the new Start screen serves the exact same function and hides stuff from people that aren't suppose to be messing around with it. The Windows 8 refresh is friggen epic, good bye clean installs.
 
Thuleman said:
Seems to me what you are refusing to learn and understand is that some people value an UI that was designed around being operated with a keyboard and a mouse over an UI that was designed to be operated with a touch screen.
Click to expand...

How does removing a start button negate keyboard and mouse navigation from windows 8 desktop?

My computer illiterate fiancé had next to zero struggle in learning to navigate Windows 8... In your defense though, she did bitch and moan about it being different when she first used it, but after explaining where to click to get to the start screen and how to use search, she was able to figure it out on her own. She's in fashion merchandising and rarely uses computers. When I got back to my computer it had a flowery background and a magenta color theme, so there was clearly no struggle with her navigating around it. If you have issues with it, would you consider the possibility that you're just exaggerating the situation? (reminiscent of a crotchety old man who doesn't want to give up his bundle of clunky remotes for a universal remote)

This constant bitching about windows 8 reminds me of when windows 95 launched and the people who cried about how "stupid" the start button was. The difference is that social media and blog sites didn't really exist back then and those naysayers eventually jumped on the bandwagon (albeit probably not until 98SE or XP). Now that the whiners and cry babies have a place voice their stubborn thoughts, it's becoming an epidemic.
 
bcrisp82 said:
How does removing a start button negate keyboard and mouse navigation from windows 8 desktop?

My computer illiterate fiancé had next to zero struggle in learning to navigate Windows 8... In your defense though, she did bitch and moan about it being different when she first used it, but after explaining where to click to get to the start screen and how to use search, she was able to figure it out on her own. She's in fashion merchandising and rarely uses computers. When I got back to my computer it had a flowery background and a magenta color theme, so there was clearly no struggle with her navigating around it. If you have issues with it, would you consider the possibility that you're just exaggerating the situation? (reminiscent of a crotchety old man who doesn't want to give up his bundle of clunky remotes for a universal remote)

This constant bitching about windows 8 reminds me of when windows 95 launched and the people who cried about how "stupid" the start button was. The difference is that social media and blog sites didn't really exist back then and those naysayers eventually jumped on the bandwagon (albeit probably not until 98SE or XP). Now that the whiners and cry babies have a place voice their stubborn thoughts, it's becoming an epidemic.
Click to expand...

I much prefer static icons over ones that alert the whole world that you have a new email. I just use the desktop to launch my desired programs. I do pin some things to the Start Menu, but I just click, open it, and that it automatically closes. Why do I need a full screen Start Screen to pop up and obscure my entire vision?

Additionally, that goes into Metro/Modern which often results in non-desktop applications running rather than their desktop counterpart/modes. Which results in a full screen, slow to close/minimize program.

It just doesn't do anything the traditional Start Menu did while just opening in full screen covering everything up momentarily. I don't see what advantage that has.
 
Flogger23m said:
I much prefer static icons over ones that alert the whole world that you have a new email. I just use the desktop to launch my desired programs. I do pin some things to the Start Menu, but I just click, open it, and that it automatically closes. Why do I need a full screen Start Screen to pop up and obscure my entire vision?

Additionally, that goes into Metro/Modern which often results in non-desktop applications running rather than their desktop counterpart/modes. Which results in a full screen, slow to close/minimize program.

It just doesn't do anything the traditional Start Menu did while just opening in full screen covering everything up momentarily. I don't see what advantage that has.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, What do you feel the new start screen prohibits you from doing over what the traditional start menu did? The only thing I can think of is the functionality that you get from some pinned programs where you can see a frequent/recent file list. (which you can still accomplish by pinning on the taskbar and right clicking on or clicking and dragging up on the icon). The taskbar pin feature is a great feature. You can pin a good 20+ applications with most monitors and finally utilize much of the space that was traditionally wasted by the task bar. That scenario should cover pretty much 99% of us... This eliminates the need for using the start screen as a launcher. Just right click on the program you want to pin to taskbar in the start screen and you will see the option at the bottom.

Also, you can shrink live tiles to not give additional details, and usually can configure them to not give any notification (check settings in app). Or simply unpin/uninstall modern UI applications that you think suck.

Unless you have to look back and forth between the start menu and your other applications while using the start menu, I am unclear on how the start screen is obstructing your view if you're going to it solely to do something (launch app, find doc/setting, etc.)

I generally use type-ahead to launch applications and docs, so I usually press the start button, type a few characters to drill down on what I want, and hit enter. The start screen is visible for maybe 1 second in these scenarios.

How are your modern UI progams slow to close/minimize? If you're dragging from top to bottom and find that too slow, try Alt+F4 to close, window key+d to jump to desktop, or alt+tab or window key+tab to task switch. modern UI applications on any half decent x86 computer are fast because of how lightweight they are.

another shortcut that you'll find useful is windows key + x = admin menu

I do understand that it can be frustrating to learn when there isn't anybody to help, but I'm sure anybody would be willing to help if questions were asked. I just wish there was more collaboration than bickering. Have a problem? ask a question get an answer... right?
 
heatlesssun said:
What will be the primary purpose of the machine?
Click to expand...

General purpose use (Internet browsing, facebook, etsy, etc), DVD ripping and playing games.

jmilcher said:
If you are providing the main support, stick with what you know. I run Win8 pro x64 myself, but with new build for family members I stick with Win7. I provide most of their support and I do not like headaches.
Click to expand...

This was my dilemma. I own and know Windows 7. I own and don't know Windows 8 (I just got a laptop with Windows 8 on it, but it is a secondary laptop, so I haven't had a lot of opportunity to use it yet).

bcrisp82 said:
Out of curiosity, What do you feel the new start screen prohibits you from doing over what the traditional start menu did? The only thing I can think of is the functionality that you get from some pinned programs where you can see a frequent/recent file list. (which you can still accomplish by pinning on the taskbar and right clicking on or clicking and dragging up on the icon). The taskbar pin feature is a great feature. You can pin a good 20+ applications with most monitors and finally utilize much of the space that was traditionally wasted by the task bar. That scenario should cover pretty much 99% of us... This eliminates the need for using the start screen as a launcher. Just right click on the program you want to pin to taskbar in the start screen and you will see the option at the bottom.

Also, you can shrink live tiles to not give additional details, and usually can configure them to not give any notification (check settings in app). Or simply unpin/uninstall modern UI applications that you think suck.

Unless you have to look back and forth between the start menu and your other applications while using the start menu, I am unclear on how the start screen is obstructing your view if you're going to it solely to do something (launch app, find doc/setting, etc.)

I generally use type-ahead to launch applications and docs, so I usually press the start button, type a few characters to drill down on what I want, and hit enter. The start screen is visible for maybe 1 second in these scenarios.

How are your modern UI progams slow to close/minimize? If you're dragging from top to bottom and find that too slow, try Alt+F4 to close, window key+d to jump to desktop, or alt+tab or window key+tab to task switch. modern UI applications on any half decent x86 computer are fast because of how lightweight they are.

another shortcut that you'll find useful is windows key + x = admin menu

I do understand that it can be frustrating to learn when there isn't anybody to help, but I'm sure anybody would be willing to help if questions were asked. I just wish there was more collaboration than bickering. Have a problem? ask a question get an answer... right?
Click to expand...

bcrisp, I actually appreciate your input a lot. Ultimately, I need to play with and get used to Windows 8. I don't know if I should put it on the SIL's computer if I don't know it inside and out though.

I didn't know the Win+X thing...I'll have to look into that.

Your last paragraph is spot on. It can be very frustrating to learn. But any little tidbit I can get (such as a few you pointed out) helps out a lot.
 
This is a pretty good read to get started.

Another thing is that by default all media files are opened by Metro apps. If you don't like this, the quickest and easiest way to revert back to desktop programs for your media files is to simply uninstall the stock Metro apps. That will automatically change the file associations back to the desktop programs.
 
bcrisp82 said:
How does removing a start button negate keyboard and mouse navigation from windows 8 desktop?
Click to expand...

I don't really want to get into a whole argument over this which has been posted over and over on [H] and elsewhere on the Internet. Suffice to say that it's not just the Start button that's the issue, it's also the fact that you have to move your mouse across the whole screen to hit the "hot spots" (right side menu pop-out, lower left corner, lower right corner).

The Metro UI is designed for touchscreens, not for screens where you have to move your mouse for 2560 pixels from one side of the screen to another.
 
Kelvarr said:
General purpose use (Internet browsing, facebook, etsy, etc), DVD ripping and playing games.



This was my dilemma. I own and know Windows 7. I own and don't know Windows 8 (I just got a laptop with Windows 8 on it, but it is a secondary laptop, so I haven't had a lot of opportunity to use it yet).



bcrisp, I actually appreciate your input a lot. Ultimately, I need to play with and get used to Windows 8. I don't know if I should put it on the SIL's computer if I don't know it inside and out though.

I didn't know the Win+X thing...I'll have to look into that.

Your last paragraph is spot on. It can be very frustrating to learn. But any little tidbit I can get (such as a few you pointed out) helps out a lot.
Click to expand...

If it were me that had to provide support for the new deployment I would not want to learn it while trying to fix it or train the user. I would prefer to support something I already know. Until I get a chance to learn windows 8 I would not want to provide support for it at a remote location that would be the deciding factor for me.
 
Hmmm Depens on how tech savy they are if not to bad then go with 8.if they dont unserstand how to operate a computer(or any other eletonic device) to well.then yes go with win 7.Unless you have a stockpile of bc powder on hand:D
 
bcrisp82 said:
How does removing a start button negate keyboard and mouse navigation from windows 8 desktop?
If you have issues with it, would you consider the possibility that you're just exaggerating the situation? (reminiscent of a crotchety old man who doesn't want to give up his bundle of clunky remotes for a universal remote)

This constant bitching about windows 8 reminds me of when windows 95 launched and the people who cried about how "stupid" the start button was. The difference is that social media and blog sites didn't really exist back then and those naysayers eventually jumped on the bandwagon (albeit probably not until 98SE or XP). Now that the whiners and cry babies have a place voice their stubborn thoughts, it's becoming an epidemic.
Click to expand...

Terrible analogy, the universal remote increases net usability and efficiency, Metro does the opposite. Try again.
 
Well, this is interesting. I'm pro Windows 8, but I can't find a good deal (or academic connect deal) on Windows 8, so I may be forced to go with Windows 7 until I can find Windows 8 Pro for a good price :(
 
odditory said:
Terrible analogy, the universal remote increases net usability and efficiency, Metro does the opposite. Try again.
Click to expand...

False, Metro does the same for some, and does the opposite for others. Personal preference and usage patterns.
 
Windows 8? What a disaster of an OS, it shouldn't have even been revealed to the desktop space until touchscreen monitors became more widespread. It only makes sense on the Surface. Go with Windows 7 IMO
 
I find Windows 8 to be better than 7... under the hood, at least.

The UI question is a little more trick. The Start Menu did need to go. Microsoft began that process with Windows 7, trying to turn the taskbar into something akin to OS X's Dock. The Start Screen is a decent idea, I guess, but it's borderline unusable in some instances. Metro app design makes no sense; I dare you to figure out how to edit the News app's "My News" section without referring to the help documentation. The sideways scrolling concept is fine, though it makes more sense as an extension of the concept of right-to-left reading than it does for human interaction (it's easier to swipe your thumbs up and down to scroll than it is to flick your hand left and right to scroll).

If there were better live tile capable apps with more customization (why can't the ESPN app show me a live tile with content only concerning teams I follow?), a lot of this would be forgivable. Speaking of live tiles, the Start Screen could use much better customization. Some tiles can expand to double width, some can't; why? And the categorization makes no sense; the tiles are just randomly collected with no rhyme or reason. And of course, attempts to add desktop apps to the Start Screen result in a bunch of squares with low-res icons clustered together...

I use Windows 8 on my gaming rig, and I'm slowly starting to appreciate it as a general use OS. But when some annoying quirk pops up, it's usually really annoying and impacts usability in a big way. OS X and iOS are much better, and I'm going to keep using those.

Oh, and Internet Explorer 10 (non Metro) is actually pretty good. Doesn't spike my GPU usage the way Chrome does, it's fast, and the tracking protection lists take care of any adblocking I might want or need. If you go with Windows 7, slap IE10 on there.
 
Just get W8 and install classic shell if you don't want Metro.

Congrats in 2 minutes you've completely bypassed the negative that everyone dislikes and you get to reap the enhancements.
 
I would ask your users to go to a store and play around to see which one they like best.
 
bcrisp82 said:
Get Windows 8, take the 20 minutes necessary to effectively begin using the start screen instead of the old start menu, and enjoy.

Pin your top applications to the taskbar, configure some desktop shortcuts, and enjoy being able to jump to the start screen for live tiles.

Anybody who hacks Win8 to get rid of the start screen are only hurting their experience by refusing to learn and understand.

Plus, the "Refresh PC without losing Files" option will make your family tech support days much easier.
Click to expand...
I prefer dead tiles. :) (icons)

Refusing to learn and understand what? That its a touch screen hybrid OS? No, I think most know that.
 
Windows 8, hear me out, they need to learn it because MS aint going back to the old windows, and heck even other OSes and mobile OSes are more like that. Other than that theres nothing critically wrong with windows 8 some people just hate the interface and seem to blow it out of proportion.

Also I don't see any reason to get rid of metro, if you do support then just do the most important thing which is make their mouse have a button reassigned to the windows key, once you do that windows 8 makes works pretty well.
 
Windows 8. Once you use it for a bit, it honestly is better than 7.

If you dont like the Metro UI, get start 8 and you are golden. I use it everyday on my work machine and never even see Metro...
 
rudy said:
Windows 8, hear me out, they need to learn it because MS aint going back to the old windows, and heck even other OSes and mobile OSes are more like that. Other than that theres nothing critically wrong with windows 8 some people just hate the interface and seem to blow it out of proportion.

Also I don't see any reason to get rid of metro, if you do support then just do the most important thing which is make their mouse have a button reassigned to the windows key, once you do that windows 8 makes works pretty well.
Click to expand...
That's the problem, mobile OS's. We are talking mostly non touch stuff.

I like windows 8 besides that. I use classic shell and works great.
 
windows 9 will be out next year, just run windows 7 on it and upgrade to 9 when it comes out.
 
socK said:
Congrats in 2 minutes you've completely bypassed the negative that everyone dislikes and you get to reap the enhancements.
Click to expand...

There are plenty more negatives. You have to disable the lock screen which is a complete time waster on desktop machines. You have to reconfigure a lot of your internal apps (like the picture viewer) to not take you out of your desktop environment into the shitty Metro app interface. The list goes on and on and on, and for what?

Grentz said:
Windows 8. Once you use it for a bit, it honestly is better than 7.
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Well, now that you are honest about it ...., what exactly makes it better than 7 considering that you do not use Metro.
 
Thuleman: Still getting used to Windows 8 here.
But, I do like the look and feel of the new task manager so far. I've also read that file copies are represented better and should be quicker when compared to Win 7.


Though, I did have to take sometime to configure my Start screen. Still not satisfied with it.
 
Shambler said:
Thuleman: Still getting used to Windows 8 here.
But, I do like the look and feel of the new task manager so far. I've also read that file copies are represented better and should be quicker when compared to Win 7.


Though, I did have to take sometime to configure my Start screen. Still not satisfied with it.
Click to expand...
This is so true. Make windows the way you like it and be happy with it.

So a lot of people don't like metro/touch stuff/etc, they get rid of it, and enjoy the OS.

This is what its about!
 
Hagrid said:
So a lot of people don't like metro/touch stuff/etc, they get rid of it, and enjoy the OS. This is what its about!
Click to expand...

I really am not trying to be argumentative, but if you spend all the time to make all the edits to 8 to make it look almost like 7 and function almost like 7, then why spend the money to buy 8 in the first place?

From where I am looking I don't see any tangible advantage to 8 if you try to make it into 7.

My opinion is based on actually using Win 8 at home due to me having to work with Powershell 3 and Server 2012 at work, which I would use at home too if only I could stand RDPing into a Server 2012 environment (which makes you want to kill kittens).
 
Thuleman said:
I really am not trying to be argumentative, but if you spend all the time to make all the edits to 8 to make it look almost like 7 and function almost like 7, then why spend the money to buy 8 in the first place?

From where I am looking I don't see any tangible advantage to 8 if you try to make it into 7.

My opinion is based on actually using Win 8 at home due to me having to work with Powershell 3 and Server 2012 at work, which I would use at home too if only I could stand RDPing into a Server 2012 environment (which makes you want to kill kittens).
Click to expand...
Will be spinning up a 2012 server VM tonight/tomorrow night at home.
Interested to see what pops up. Granted I'll be connected to it via the vSphere console window. So it may not be as bad as a RDP session.
 
Thuleman said:
I really am not trying to be argumentative, but if you spend all the time to make all the edits to 8 to make it look almost like 7 and function almost like 7, then why spend the money to buy 8 in the first place?

From where I am looking I don't see any tangible advantage to 8 if you try to make it into 7.

My opinion is based on actually using Win 8 at home due to me having to work with Powershell 3 and Server 2012 at work, which I would use at home too if only I could stand RDPing into a Server 2012 environment (which makes you want to kill kittens).
Click to expand...
Well I guess its for people who really want to stay with 8 no matter what, even if it takes a lot of work to make it like 7 and still isn't close, but works ok.

I personally don't use 8 on my main machine. I do like some of 2012 server but do not use it enough in a job to see all the quirks and problems.
 
Thuleman said:
I really am not trying to be argumentative, but if you spend all the time to make all the edits to 8 to make it look almost like 7 and function almost like 7, then why spend the money to buy 8 in the first place?

From where I am looking I don't see any tangible advantage to 8 if you try to make it into 7.

My opinion is based on actually using Win 8 at home due to me having to work with Powershell 3 and Server 2012 at work, which I would use at home too if only I could stand RDPing into a Server 2012 environment (which makes you want to kill kittens).
Click to expand...

Because it literally takes like 2 minutes to download and install classic shell. It's just a couple megabytes, is free, hideously customizable, and lets you set shit up however you like.

Why would I not want to enjoy the new enhancements? My complaint is gone, I tried and did not like metro... and it was completely trivial to fix. I win in multiple ways and lose in none. I never see metro, I took the 5 seconds to change the default programs for pictures and shit. It's really not that difficult. It only took a few minutes to set up how I wanted, which I just did during the initial updates / driver installations etc.

I like booting so fast that I don't have time to see the logo, I like the new performance and memory tweaks, I like the new task manager. Nothing got worse for me.
 
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The issue I have seen with users trying Win 8 for the first time is not the Start Screen - they can usually figure that out quickly. The big problem is Metro apps which are fullscreen, offer no hint or clue about how to switch away, have a separate task switcher instead of showing up int he taskbar, and are the default app.

This whole aspect of Win 8 has been designed terribly. If people can get over that, e.g. by never using Metro, then it is a nice, fast OS.

And people appreciate the sync and signon with Microsoft account.
 
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