Do you actually think Windows 9 will be different?

I have a dream...

I have no doubt in my mind that the Start Menu is gone and I'm fine with that. My problem is how they implemented the new UI; it's far too convoluted and fragmented. I think Windows 9 will still have a touch oriented UI but I expect it to be much more refined, unified, and customizable.

I admit, at first, a small part of me thought that people would really like Windows 8. Reality has set in, though, and my primary belief that it would be a failure has come to fruition. Windows 9 will be more user friendly because of Windows 8 failings.

I want the latest OS like most enthusiast do, but I refuse to use 8 on principle alone, even with Start Menu replacements.

I've learned a long time ago not to put my eggs, let alone my trust, in Microsoft. The way I see it, is I really don't care. Sure don't dig Windows 8 and all the "features", but I'm beyond the point about voicing my opinion. We'll let the market make that judgment. As far as Windows 9, 10, 11, Infinity. Don't know, don't care.

Windows 7 works great for my needs and I'm just beginning to fully realize its capabilities without unnecessary need for a complete 180. Until something holds me back from getting the most out of my hardware I see need to pay much attention to anything in the pipeline. Then again we can't predict Microsoft isn't forcing planned obsolescence with the way they are treating Windows 7. Preventing a 10 year XP cycle or covering up for failures and forcing adoption rates against the peoples will? Who knows at this point. Lets wait 5 years.

I can say I used to be one of those nerds that loved paying attention to the MS OS beta rumors and what not. I've since lost that lust, and the way MS has responding to people voicing their discontent was shocking to say the least.

Lets hope Microsoft will finally listen to their users and bring back the Start Menu and useful features that was absent in Windows 8 though I'm not counting it, it seems like they think touch screens and tablet devices are the future.

John Vuong said:

Lets hope Microsoft will finally listen to their users and bring back the Start Menu and useful features that was absent in Windows 8 though I'm not counting it, it seems like they think touch screens and tablet devices are the future.

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And, it's unfortunate that there isn't widespread and affordable touchscreen monitors out there from major monitor manufacturers.

That and manufacturers such as Dell and others have them on only laptops and all-in-one PCs.

How about those that build their own computers? Standalone touchscreen monitors are not cheap by any means, especially ones at respectable and higher resolutions.

Microsoft is completely delusional on that end thinking that everyone would have a touchscreen monitor when they purchase this OS.

Also, my best guess for Windows 9/Windows Blue is the following:

• ModernUI/Start Screen usability improvements
• Performance improvements-- multithreaded, graphics (DirectX, etc.), memory and process management
• New features
• More social integration
• More Windows Store integration
• Linked ecosystem between Xbox 720, Xbox Live streaming device (Rumored), Windows Phone, and Xbox Live related services

It's too bad that MS if taking the single most powerful platform in existence and trying to turn it into a phone OS.

octoberasian said:

And, it's unfortunate that there isn't widespread and affordable touchscreen monitors out there from major monitor manufacturers.

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This is irrelevant. Who wants to be sitting at a desk using a vertical touchscreen all damn day?

Touchscreen devices are mostly toys. I've seen some businesses use them with success but it's really hit and miss with how much work you can do with them.

bigdogchris said:

This is irrelevant. Who wants to be sitting at a desk using a vertical touchscreen all damn day?

Touchscreen devices are mostly toys. I've seen some businesses use them with success but it's really hit and miss with how much work you can do with them.

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I totally disagree. If there was touch on my desktop monitors, I would certainly get use out of them. Even if it was just for web browsing purposes. Especially on laptops I'm saddened when I can't just swipe scroll and pinch zoom.

bigdogchris said:

This is irrelevant. Who wants to be sitting at a desk using a vertical touchscreen all damn day?

Touchscreen devices are mostly toys. I've seen some businesses use them with success but it's really hit and miss with how much work you can do with them.

Click to expand...

Completely agree. The ergonomics, especially for current setups, simply don't support this as a viable alternative to keyboard and mouse. Touchscreens make perfect sense on mobile devices, due to how you interact with them. It's not the same on the desktop and that's one of the reasons I've considered Metro a joke for the start.

Not to mention I don't want to touch my monitor anyway. Who wants fingerprints all over the screen? Mobile devices have small screens that are very easy to clean. Most monitors aren't as easy.

octoberasian said:

And, it's unfortunate that there isn't widespread and affordable touchscreen monitors out there from major monitor manufacturers.

That and manufacturers such as Dell and others have them on only laptops and all-in-one PCs.

How about those that build their own computers? Standalone touchscreen monitors are not cheap by any means, especially ones at respectable and higher resolutions.

Microsoft is completely delusional on that end thinking that everyone would have a touchscreen monitor when they purchase this OS.

Click to expand...

yeah because sitting at a desk and using a touch screen monitor is the most ergonomic thing around...

Veilrap said:

I totally disagree. If there was touch on my desktop monitors, I would certainly get use out of them. Even if it was just for web browsing purposes. Especially on laptops I'm saddened when I can't just swipe scroll and pinch zoom.

Click to expand...

So you're either going to be sitting with the monitor in your face, or with your elbows up on the desk all day? Does not sound very practical.

The point I'm trying to make is sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse and sitting in a lounge chair with a tablet are two totally different experiences. Microsoft is trying to make them one, which is wrong.

I thought Microsoft was switching over to an annual OS release/refresh like Apple does with OSX.

The next Windows, (doubt it's going to be called 9) is supposed to be out in the not too distant future and will probably still look nearly identical to Windows 8.

IMO an annual OS update is a good thing that will let Microsoft add cutting edge new features and other OS refinements to everything from the back-end to the UI in a much quicker fashion and be able to keep up with competitors. Looking at OSX and Linux like Ubuntu and Mint, they have such quicker release cycles and let them add large new features every year.

For example, notification center was added in 10.8 Mountain Lion.

I think it's very useful and important to add large new features like that yearly rather than ~3 yearly.

bigdogchris said:

This is irrelevant. Who wants to be sitting at a desk using a vertical touchscreen all damn day?

Touchscreen devices are mostly toys. I've seen some businesses use them with success but it's really hit and miss with how much work you can do with them.

Click to expand...

wtburnette said:

Completely agree. The ergonomics, especially for current setups, simply don't support this as a viable alternative to keyboard and mouse. Touchscreens make perfect sense on mobile devices, due to how you interact with them. It's not the same on the desktop and that's one of the reasons I've considered Metro a joke for the start.

Not to mention I don't want to touch my monitor anyway. Who wants fingerprints all over the screen? Mobile devices have small screens that are very easy to clean. Most monitors aren't as easy.

Click to expand...

YeuEmMaiMai said:

yeah because sitting at a desk and using a touch screen monitor is the most ergonomic thing around...

Click to expand...

bigdogchris said:

So you're either going to be sitting with the monitor in your face, or with your elbows up on the desk all day? Does not sound very practical.

The point I'm trying to make is sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse and sitting in a lounge chair with a tablet are two totally different experiences. Microsoft is trying to make them one, which is wrong.

Click to expand...

And, here's the problem in response to all of you above: Watch Microsoft's commercials on Windows 8.

They're HEAVILY marketing this as a touchscreen OS and nothing in the commercials shows how a keyboard and mouse can be used in the OS.

We have people in suits dressed like hipsters dancing at board meetings sliding stuff across the screen on their Surface tablets. They're swiping stuff on a spreadsheet or whatnot. But, do you see business people at their desks doing this stuff on a daily basis? Or in their cubicles?

And, we have "Depot Time" commercials from Office Depot. Again, with the touchscreen laptops how you can switch and swipe between applications.

Then, we have the commercials of families using them on all-in-one PCs drawing on their screens with their fingers, swiping between Windows applications, and so on. Again, nothing is shown where a mouse and keyboard can be used.

Microsoft is really pushing a touchscreen interface for Windows 8 as it is more convenient than using a keyboard and mouse. I can understand it in situations where it'd be ergonomically impossible to use it or it'd be slower, but in a typical desktop PC environment-- office, home, gaming-- you do not touch your screen to use these programs and play these games. The typical desktop PC is NOT a tablet and is not a smartphone and is NOT a laptop with a touchscreen.

They're marketing Windows 8 as a touchscreen OS regardless if it's on a tablet, laptop with touchscreen monitor, or an all-in-one PC with a touchscreen monitor. It looks like they are trying to push the traditional mouse and keyboard out of the picture, showing that you can do these things with your fingers and with finger swipes.

The problem is that the majority of the programs we use on a day-to-day basis use a keyboard and mouse.

When Windows 9 comes around, I would not be surprised this trend continues. It's like having your next Xbox 720 system have Kinect 2.0 and Microsoft going to push motion-based and gesture-based gaming. Microsoft is really pining to have alternative inputs be the de facto standard of this OS.

That future isn't now given that the technology isn't there yet-- widespread and affordable at the same time.

This is a $699 Acer 27-inch touchscreen monitor from Newegg at 1920x1080 resolution:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009439

For $799, I can get something like this at 2560x1440 resolution:
http://click.hardforum.com/?url=htt...t=1&id=1&match=1&source=none&destination=none

OR...

... for $599 at 2560x1080 resolution I can get this:
http://accessories.ap.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=au&l=en&s=dhs&cs=audhs1&sku=210-41183

I like Windows 8 by now since I've been using it since release back in October. I've gotten used to it, but I am using a keyboard and mouse and it is USABLE with these traditional input methods. However, Microsoft is not marketing it that way.

Windows 8 is a good OS, coming from me. I like its resource management, memory usage and management is better, it feels slightly faster than 7 to me. I've customized it enough that fits how I use it-- common programs pinned to the taskbar, everything else is Start button + type a few words, then launch and done.

I feel Windows 9/Blue is going to be no different coming from Microsoft except with probably some extra features, certain UI and usability improvements, performance and security improvements, and most likely more Xbox Live services integration.

Microsoft is going to still market it and future operating systems based on Windows 8 as touchscreen OS first and foremost however. And, for the majority of desktop PC users out there, that's going to be a big issue. It's going to be misleading in some ways and it doesn't show how one can use a keyboard and mouse in the OS.

I fully expect the traditional desktop to become a GPO configurable option once it's time for businesses to start upgrading. I won't say that's with Windows9 necessarily, because windows 7 is just fine and will continue to be "just fine" for the foreseeable future.

And for corporations, touch screen is a joke. Maybe MS can pull the wool over the consumer's eyes ( although given the sales numbers, probably not ), but corporations are NEVER going to go for the increased cost and overhead associated with touch. Not unless it shows an actual benefit, which for a majority of the businesses out there, it won't.

Octroberasian,

We got it right and as usual you totally missed the point and not to mention that MS IS marketing Windows 8 as the NEW OS to have

I work 12 hour shifts in an operations center and using a touch screen would be a MAJOR pain in the behind... keyboard and mouse are definitely the way to go... Can you imagine entering a call ticket that has multiple fields using a virtual keyboard that covers up a good potion of the screen all the while keeping your hands in an elevated position to do it? Same thing for entering in information while at home (typing on a forum for example)... Take a moment and think about it would you?

I'm actually assuming that they'll further degrade the desktop component of the OS. Aren't they trying to get rid of legacy programs and replacing them all with apps? What a disaster.

Legacy programs aren't been gotten rid of, that would be suicide.

The point of the direction Microsoft is going with Windows is NOT to replace keyboards and mice. It is to provide an OS that is fully functional on any form factor device.

Some people seem to be acting as if adding touch features somehow diminishes from the ability to use keyboards and mice. It does not.

octoberasian said:

Microsoft is going to still market it and future operating systems based on Windows 8 as touchscreen OS first and foremost however. And, for the majority of desktop PC users out there, that's going to be a big issue. It's going to be misleading in some ways and it doesn't show how one can use a keyboard and mouse in the OS.

Click to expand...

Surface commercials show the device with the touch covers with keyboards and track pads, so I don't see what's misleading here. Windows has worked with keyboards and mice for almost a generation, touch as it is in Windows 8 however is new so I don't know why you'd spend a lot of ad time showing off something that's been there for almost 30 years.

Personally, I don't think Metro itself is the issue. The issue is more that the "desktop" is treated like a totally separate and seemingly unrelated environment. While it isn't, it almost feels like a weird Windows 7 emulator.
Rather than kill off Metro, they mainly just need to actually make the desktop feel like it's properly integrated.

bigdogchris said:

So you're either going to be sitting with the monitor in your face, or with your elbows up on the desk all day? Does not sound very practical.

The point I'm trying to make is sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse and sitting in a lounge chair with a tablet are two totally different experiences. Microsoft is trying to make them one, which is wrong.

Click to expand...

No. I would use the touchscreen when it's convenient, and the mouse and keyboard when it's convenient.

Just because you have a touchscreen monitor doesn't mean you're forced to use it exclusively.

zoolu said:

they probably change win 8 and call it 9

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I don't even understand this statement. Do you honestly believe that they just write something from scratch every time? That's not how software development works. Ever since Windows NT 3.1 was written, every later version of Windows to the present (NT3.1 -> NT3.5 -> NT4 -> 2000 -> XP -> Vista -> 7 -> 8) has been evolved from the previous codebase.

When you bet the entire future of the biggest software company on the planet and a multi-billion dollar corporation on a UI design, its a safe bet to assume its not going to be abandoned after 1 version.

Everything coming out of MS is Metro - Windows, Phone, Xbox, Surface, Live, Outlook - they all share the same design and are all heavily sold as 'best with touch'.

Do you really think a few internet geeks complaining about the Start menu will change this? The Start menu is the smallest change anyway, yet people always go on about it. The more worrying thing is how the desktop and legacy apps have been completely ignored.

Domingo said:

Personally, I don't think Metro itself is the issue. The issue is more that the "desktop" is treated like a totally separate and seemingly unrelated environment. While it isn't, it almost feels like a weird Windows 7 emulator.
Rather than kill off Metro, they mainly just need to actually make the desktop feel like it's properly integrated.

Click to expand...

Someone finally gets it! The whole ad campaign for Windows and Surface is around Metro, yet we are told 'the desktop is still there'. They need to work together.

windows would be totally gone in five years if frodo and the fucktardo gang of rejects realized that users just wants to double click on shit. its called simplicity, thus efficient.

Yep. As a Windows 8 user, the Metro experience needs to be improved and integrated better with the desktop. The multimonitor experience is much improved, but nVsurround and Eyefinity aren't properly working yet (mostly nVidia's and AMD's fault more than Microsoft's).

The all apps menu needs to have the folder hierarchy. Accessible jumplists in the Start Screen would be a huge plus. All settings should be accessible through both the Metro settings menu and desktop, not force you to have to switch between the two to find certain settings. And native power options on the Start Screen would be a huge plus.

MrCrispy said:

Someone finally gets it! The whole ad campaign for Windows and Surface is around Metro, yet we are told 'the desktop is still there'. They need to work together.

Click to expand...

The Surface Pro commercials do show Office running. I don't think that Microsoft needs to spend a lot of effort promoting a 20 year old desktop that everyone has seen. Heavily promoting the 5 month UI makes a lot more sense.

A lot of people who like Windows 8 have said that Metro and the desktop need to work better together. That said, what that actually means I admit I'm not entirely sure. Windowed Metro apps are technically possible and there's that Startdock add on that provides the capability. Been playing with it for a while and I think that this could be useful particularly on the desktop. There are some desktop focused features in the Blue leak as you're aware, the screen splitting I think is pretty cool and a fast way to arrange programs on screen that has advantages over a traditional window.

I don't think that Metro needs to be another traditional windowing UI, that's there and as much as people talk of the desktop going away, Metro apps are plain old COM desktop apps, just heavily sand boxed with no windowing chrome. Microsoft actually has a great deal of flexibility in how they proceed. Windows RT, i.e. Windows on ARM, is nothing more than a subset of Windows x86/x64 ported to COM. Microsoft could in time open up the desktop on those devices to run desktop apps.

I just don't see why Microsoft would even want to run away from one of the great commercial successes in all of business history in the Windows desktop. There's simply nothing in it for them and as long as there is OS X or Linux or other desktop OSes and people are using keyboard and mouse driven desktop applications I think Microsoft is going to be there as well. Maybe if the desktop market became so small that it wasn't generating a lot of money or something of that nature that Microsoft would abandon the desktop, I just don't see that happening.

Metro is just a COM presentation layer built on the foundation of Windows like every other desktop app out there to add touch and physics driven apps, it's really nothing more at this time.

Tsumi said:

Yep. As a Windows 8 user, the Metro experience needs to be improved and integrated better with the desktop. The multimonitor experience is much improved, but nVsurround and Eyefinity aren't properly working yet (mostly nVidia's and AMD's fault more than Microsoft's).

Click to expand...

+1000 here. Virtual multi-monitor resolutions are not handled well in 8 currently, I hope that gets fixed in drivers and/or the Blue update.

Better integration:

1. All settings options available in both settings menus, not just some here and some there. That way, whether you're using the Metro environment or desktop, you have full access to all settings.

2. Ability to keep the Start Screen permanently up on a monitor for multimonitor setups for easy access and viewing of live tiles.

Tsumi said:

Better integration:
1. All settings options available in both settings menus, not just some here and some there. That way, whether you're using the Metro environment or desktop, you have full access to all settings.

Click to expand...

I agree but I don't think that this is a huge deal, but the Blue update does look to be addressing this at least on the Metro side.

Tsumi said:

2. Ability to keep the Start Screen permanently up on a monitor for multimonitor setups for easy access and viewing of live tiles.

Click to expand...

Then you should be happy to hear that this is the case with the Blue leak, I'm running it and have see this behavior for myself with dual monitors, even over remote desktop and natively.

MS rarely listens to it's customers, so I doubt they'll get rid of metro or bring back the start menu. It is in their interest along with the rest of the industry to get rid of PCs and push everyone to get a tablet so 8 is their way of saying "if you want a better experience then get a tablet". Though they seem to completely revamp the GUI and where everything is every 2 releases so my guess is 9 will be pretty much the same as 8 but with some different core features. That's assuming they even call it 9, because they can't seem to decide on a naming scheme and keep changing it. Sometimes they use the year, sometimes they use the version number, sometimes they give it an actual name, other times it's a number... MAKE UP YOUR MIND MICROSOFT! lol Seriously though, wtf is up with that?

Red Squirrel said:

MS rarely listens to it's customers

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Most changes that I saw in the Blue leak I saw asked for by a customer. No, Microsoft doesn't listen to every customer, but it does listen many customers that use Microsoft's products and have interest in them and spend a lot of money on them. That's kind of how it works.

Yes, every company wants at least appear to listen to and care about customers, no company with a product like Windows will every please everyone while at the same time advancing the company's own interests.

Windows 7 is all I need. Don't understand why anyone would want to touch their computer monitor anyways. I like my screens clean and not full of fingerprints thank you.

heatlesssun said:

Surface commercials show the device with the touch covers with keyboards and track pads, so I don't see what's misleading here. Windows has worked with keyboards and mice for almost a generation, touch as it is in Windows 8 however is new so I don't know why you'd spend a lot of ad time showing off something that's been there for almost 30 years.

Click to expand...

Surface commercials are a joke. Seriously are you actually gone base your argument about a bunch of Hipster dancing around like a bunch of goofballs snapping on a keyboard onto a tablet.

Seriously?

Red Squirrel said:

MS rarely listens to it's customers, so I doubt they'll get rid of metro or bring back the start menu. It is in their interest along with the rest of the industry to get rid of PCs and push everyone to get a tablet so 8 is their way of saying "if you want a better experience then get a tablet". Though they seem to completely revamp the GUI and where everything is every 2 releases so my guess is 9 will be pretty much the same as 8 but with some different core features. That's assuming they even call it 9, because they can't seem to decide on a naming scheme and keep changing it. Sometimes they use the year, sometimes they use the version number, sometimes they give it an actual name, other times it's a number... MAKE UP YOUR MIND MICROSOFT! lol Seriously though, wtf is up with that?

Click to expand...

Actually I thought so too, I let my partnership lapse as I don't see the benefits of being MS partner. Since I have a LOT of ms certs loosing a MS supporter such as myself I think is happening more and more. They actually called me 3 times asking me why I didn't renew asking me to renew my membership. They even asked why I didn't do a Action Pack I told them I have no need because it only has 2012 and 8 in it now, I told them I wouldn't bother unless I had downgrade rights. MS starting to take some hints that people no longer give a shit about their crap.

Well Microsoft needs to start listening to their customers and what they want, if their own product fails because it fails to meet customer's needs it will be entirely their fault.

Anyway, I hope Windows 9 will have an entirely new GUI because Windows Vista, 7 and 8 GUI looks almost the same, same icons and layout with some minor changes. So far Windows XP had its own GUI (Not counting Server 2003) if you know what I mean.

John Vuong said:

Well Microsoft needs to start listening to their customers and what they want, if their own product fails because it fails to meet customer's needs it will be entirely their fault.

Anyway, I hope Windows 9 will have an entirely new GUI because Windows Vista, 7 and 8 GUI looks almost the same, same icons and layout with some minor changes. So far Windows XP had its own GUI (Not counting Server 2003) if you know what I mean.

Click to expand...

What do consumers want? Right now, most of them seem to want mobile touchscreen stuff, with first the smartphone craze and now the tablet craze. The computer is just something to get work done, doesn't matter if it's a 6 day old laptop or 6 year old desktop, there's no incentive to get a new computer over getting a tablet/smartphone as long as the old one is still working properly.

Microsoft is late to the game in both. What advantage do they have? They have their dominating presence in computers. Trying to create a unified ecosystem across their desktop and mobile products is one way to try and leverage that advantage, as it makes things more connected and simpler, and as we all know, average consumers love simple. Was the idea itself bad? Not really. Could the actual implementation have been better? Yes, by quite a bit. Getting mass feedback is actually the best way of improving an interface. Feedback that consists of "restore the old one" are ignored for obvious reasons.

Some one mentioned the metro style on xbox, phones, tablets and desktop. I don't mind Metro I just hate the execution for the most part.

I also think Metro is fugly. The monochromatic 2d scheme is just nasty, it feels like Duplo blocks. I like my Nice colors and detailed Icons I like those because they look more like actual real life objects and because all programs and app makers make detailed icons it doesn't look out of place. Its also easy to parse compared to Metro.

MS seems to have at least one metro icon theme going but a lot of apps switch from Monochromatic to full detailed pictures and if you have a bunch of them in Metro it just looks like diehrea of colors on your screen. Plus the hard edges make everything look artificial and simulated and "uncomfortable" I much more prefer Organic feel to 7, Android and iOS.
This is why I can't stand the xbox interface, winm,o interface or metro. It looks like it was designed for monkeys. I guess its called surface because everything looks like it was drawn on a single piece of paper by a child with crayons. I like the fact the Desktop has a look of things on a desktop with a bunch of papers.
To me it looks garish, boring, and tiring. I can't stand the look of the new Office it hurts me eyes just to look at it.
I want
1. Gradients
2. Colorful Icons
3. Colorful Schemes.
4. Rounded Organic Lines
5. Faux 3D.

It's going to be a more efficient metro. Probably even more tie ins with the app store, xbox live, and windows phone.

The last Windows Product Manager left (or was pushed out) several months ago. Julie Larson-Green, Metro's biggest proponent (she also is the one pushing the ribbon interface on everything), is in charge of Windows development now.

If you don't like Metro, don't expect Win9 to make things any better. If anything, more of the OS will be Metro-ized, and the rest will be a poor clone of trying to capture an ecosystem a la Apple's iOS App Store (not that you won't continue to be able to install whatever software you want on desktop/server OS versions). I am disappoint.