Windows 8 Still Behind Vista In Market Share

SixFootDuo said:
But I would ask that you ask around and really, it won't take too many people before it should become clear to you that the vast majority of us absolutely will not or ever will use Windows 8 unless that stupid tablet screen is removed and the start button is replaced ( OFFICIALLY ) from Microsoft. Or, at the very least users given the choice to turn those options or or off.
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This is one of the big ones for enterprise. A simple thing like a GPO to put the classic start button. Another to remove Modern UI. We will not be doing any upgrades to Windows 8 unless a user specifically asks for it and has previous knowledge of it. If they haven't used it before, they don't get it (yet). We are an IT department, not an education system, and we cannot put that many resources into training the users on the new UI.

This is the assessment of 90% of the enterprise market from what I've read, heard and discussed with others. It's not a bad OS at all, it's just not easy to support and the end users will need training. And for those that say they won't - you are wrong. A lot of end users are not the technically knowledgeable users. They are those that sit down, click the Start button and get to work. Yes, they can learn a new OS. But, they don't want to. They want to sit down and work. After a few years when it catches up in the consumer market, I'm sure more will be comfortable with it. But, as it stands, it's not going to happen.

I love Windows 8 on my desktop and laptop. I am buying a Windows 8 tablet. It's a great OS and it functions very well for me. But, I'm not the average end user.

Your arguments are very valid, regardless of who and how much people try to say otherwise. In 5 years when Windows 8/9/X are further pushed into the consumer market and they know how to use it, I'd say things would be different. But, right now, you are 100% spot on.
 
They need to let us boot to desktop and add some sort of start button back for desktop users. That is the reason my boss and I nixed updating 300 work machines to Win8. Looks like were sticking to Win7 for a long time.
 
matteos said:
I'm more shocked by just how many people are running XP still
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I'm not. People (excluding us on these forums) stock with what they are comfortable with period. Windows 8 is a messy OS that attempts to cater to many audiences at once and fails at doing so. Metro confuses the hell out everyone that tries it and I've seen people actually try and give up. Metro is an interface that should have stayed on Surface.

I bet even after 6 years time Windows 8 won't approach Windows 7 in terms of an installed base. Windows 8, while being a much more functional OS, is this generations Windows Me. It will be remembered as another bump in the road.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Your arguments are very valid, regardless of who and how much people try to say otherwise. In 5 years when Windows 8/9/X are further pushed into the consumer market and they know how to use it, I'd say things would be different. But, right now, you are 100% spot on.
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Except for the fact that BYOD is picking up a lot of momentum and Windows 8 will only further this and give way the ability for people to truly use nothing but a tablet for work.
 
Ur_Mom said:
I've yet to see people throw out a new-ish desktop PC in favor of a mobile device (tablet/laptop) when the other works. I'm definitely with the opinion that folks are not going to replace a newer, fast machine with a new device until it's old and too slow or it just doesn't work anymore. Some people will buy new devices because they are more mobile, but not enough to make a difference. I agree that mobile devices have made some huge improvements, but I still think consumers won't upgrade to those until their current machines are ready to be replaced.
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It's not that you'd throw out the desktop. One useful aspect of Windows 8 on a tablet is that it can use the same programs and files and moving between a desktop, laptop and tablet is seamless, at least to the extent that one can deal with the Windows 8 UI across different form factors and input methods.
 
I suspect a lot of those XP installs are corporate clients where upgrading everyone simply isn't worth the trouble. Banks, Healthcare, etc.
The advantages of Win 7 over XP for a lot of cheap-o systems aren't that big anyway. Enough of them wisely deleted the IE6 icon and replaced it with Firefox, fixing 75% of issues with XP instantly.
 
pcjunkie said:
They need to let us boot to desktop and add some sort of start button back for desktop users. That is the reason my boss and I nixed updating 300 work machines to Win8. Looks like were sticking to Win7 for a long time.
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So, you did not upgrade because of no start button? :rolleyes: Sounds like you did not also bother to put together a test machine with it and verify that everything you use would work on it anyways?

I would say that upgraded 300 machines in an office that are working fine and generally modern is usually a recipe for disaster. Perhaps instead of blaming Windows 8 for your lack of understanding, maybe you need to look in the mirror.
 
8du8 said:
people to truly use nothing but a tablet for work.
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At least where I am, this won't happen. It would need a dock that could accommodate a 24" monitor, mouse & keyboard. Once that was done, it would be just like using a desktop PC, and it wouldn't matter if it was a tablet. Same argument with using Win8 on a desktop. Those are just my observations in my environment. Things may be different at yours.
 
Domingo said:
I suspect a lot of those XP installs are corporate clients where upgrading everyone simply isn't worth the trouble. Banks, Healthcare, etc.
The advantages of Win 7 over XP for a lot of cheap-o systems aren't that big anyway. Enough of them wisely deleted the IE6 icon and replaced it with Firefox, fixing 75% of issues with XP instantly.
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This I agree with. :)
 
Ur_Mom said:
At least where I am, this won't happen. It would need a dock that could accommodate a 24" monitor, mouse & keyboard. Once that was done, it would be just like using a desktop PC, and it wouldn't matter if it was a tablet. Same argument with using Win8 on a desktop. Those are just my observations in my environment. Things may be different at yours.
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This could easily be done with mini HDMI and bluetooth. Why would requirement would the dock solve that HDMI and bluetooth wouldnt?

As for how different it is, thats a valid point but how many people in a BYOD situation will lug a desktop into work? In some organizations leaving it there would also not be an option so they'd be on the hook to bring it home with them with every night or at the very least it'd need to be locked up so no one could walk off with it.

Right now most organizations going BYOD people bring laptops, but now that its possible to actually use a tablet for work I think its a fair bet to assume tablets will actually be used for work in the coming years.
 
nutzo said:
Here's a new Windows 7 system, sorry it doesn't run half the programs you need to do your job

There are still tons of apps and custom software that don't support anything later than XP.
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Oftentimes this is bad management. We have several specific "apps" needing IE8. I virtualized XP on 7 and it works as advertised. Granted there are going to be some apps that are flat-out not going to work, but I suspect most of them can with some research.

On-topic, I think 8 is in trouble. Actually maybe the way MS tries to do business is in trouble. I don't think people care about an OS anymore no matter who makes it. They just want their stuff to work and work from anywhere. And they want it cheap.
 
ManofGod said:
So, you did not upgrade because of no start button? :rolleyes: Sounds like you did not also bother to put together a test machine with it and verify that everything you use would work on it anyways?

I would say that upgraded 300 machines in an office that are working fine and generally modern is usually a recipe for disaster. Perhaps instead of blaming Windows 8 for your lack of understanding, maybe you need to look in the mirror.
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Ummm...don't pretend to know what we tested and didn't. That was only the tip of the iceburg..nice try at trolling though. :rolleyes:
 
pcjunkie said:
Ummm...don't pretend to know what we tested and didn't. That was only the tip of the iceburg..nice try at trolling though. :rolleyes:
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No trolling and no pretending. You clearly said that the reason you did not upgrade is the start menu was not there, nothing else.
 
At a shop i work at i still install windows XP on a lot of machines. XP is the gold standard for older people. The ones that are use to windows 95,98.98se,ME,2000,XP are the ones on XP still. Most of those people are past the age of 35.
 
Many businesses i've been to run on xp or windows 2000 still for their computers and servers. Microsoft should have split the OSs or at least added the option of changing the interface to look like windows XP. Virtual mode crap doesn't cut it. I see older people that use 7 but use the windows XP mode exclusively. Those are the select few that are savy enough to do that though. It should been added under themes like windows classic mode.
 
Ur_Mom said:
This is one of the big ones for enterprise. A simple thing like a GPO to put the classic start button. Another to remove Modern UI. We will not be doing any upgrades to Windows 8 unless a user specifically asks for it and has previous knowledge of it. If they haven't used it before, they don't get it (yet). We are an IT department, not an education system, and we cannot put that many resources into training the users on the new UI.

This is the assessment of 90% of the enterprise market from what I've read, heard and discussed with others. It's not a bad OS at all, it's just not easy to support and the end users will need training. And for those that say they won't - you are wrong. A lot of end users are not the technically knowledgeable users. They are those that sit down, click the Start button and get to work. Yes, they can learn a new OS. But, they don't want to. They want to sit down and work. After a few years when it catches up in the consumer market, I'm sure more will be comfortable with it. But, as it stands, it's not going to happen.

I love Windows 8 on my desktop and laptop. I am buying a Windows 8 tablet. It's a great OS and it functions very well for me. But, I'm not the average end user.

Your arguments are very valid, regardless of who and how much people try to say otherwise. In 5 years when Windows 8/9/X are further pushed into the consumer market and they know how to use it, I'd say things would be different. But, right now, you are 100% spot on.
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I don't mind 8 I just hate it in the Enterprise/Corp Market. Its a friggen disaster. Their are just to many bugs in it. That includes server 2012. I agree with Mom I can use it just fine but the average age of users are 35+ they don't want to use it.

I wish there was a GPO to remove metro.

MS is trying really fucking hard to push it in the enterprise market as well. That and 0365. I get solicited by MS constantly drives me fucking nuts.
 
ManofGod said:
No trolling and no pretending. You clearly said that the reason you did not upgrade is the start menu was not there, nothing else.
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Just to elaborate the initial cost to retrain and support those employees to use the new metro/desktop without any other concerns made it cost prohibitive from the start. Had you ever done cost justification yourself the answer would have been obvious. If your not trolling then you clearly are pretending.
 
pcjunkie said:
Just to elaborate the initial cost to retrain and support those employees to use the new metro/desktop without any other concerns made it cost prohibitive from the start. Had you ever done cost justification yourself the answer would have been obvious. If your not trolling then you clearly are pretending.
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You can usually tell someone hasn't worked in IT when they make certain statements and its best to pat em in the head and move on. People that have never had to justify a large purchase to a higher up, never had to answer the question "what's the ROI on this for us, what are we gaining for the money we're spending?" And unfortunately there's not a whole lot you can say for W8 if a CIO or CFO were to ask.

Imagine you say "Well mainly we'd be helping Microsoft grow a profitable Metro store and our users could run smartphone apps on their desktops.". How long would you srill have a job? In reality that's all Window 8 really is from an enterprise standpoint, since there is no net increase in usability going to a tablet-optimized start screen for average end users in a workplace.
 
odditory said:
You can usually tell someone hasn't worked in IT when they make certain statements and its best to pat em in the head and move on. People that have never had to justify a large purchase to a higher up, never had to answer the question "what's the ROI on this for us, what are we gaining for the money we're spending?" And unfortunately there's not a whole lot you can say for W8 if a CIO or CFO were to ask.
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Anyone that's worked in IT and understands business at the most basic level understands that you can purse technology for technology's sake. I like Windows 8 but I wouldn't recommend that a business or even an individual upgrade to 8 without good reason. If a business or individual has a need or want to be highly mobile with Windows then Windows 8 makes a lot sense. If all someone cares about are less mobile desktop scenarios then Windows 8 at this time doesn't make a lot of sense.
 
heatlesssun said:
Anyone that's worked in IT and understands business at the most basic level understands that you can purse technology for technology's sake.
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You can and most companies with IT departments with too much money do. However, generally that just wastes money.

heatlesssun said:
I like Windows 8 but I wouldn't recommend that a business or even an individual upgrade to 8 without good reason. If a business or individual has a need or want to be highly mobile with Windows then Windows 8 makes a lot sense.
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I am going to go ahead and say that Windows 8 for business use doesn't really make any sense... ever. It increases training costs. It increases incompatibility of programs. It mangles commonly used features, or makes them more obscure than ever before. It doesn't really add anything that can't be added with better performing 3rd party tools, and the one thing that it does add (Metro) isn't needed. It really is in so many ways a waste of time because the one thing business applications are supposed to do well (increase productivity) just isn't a forte of this operating system.

It really should be avoided until Microsoft can Metro the entire experience, or drop Metro for business settings.
 
If you don't have a big fat beautiful touch screen monitor like self then you need GTFO BRO
 
Also and I'm already 1000x :mad: pissed at Ubuntu and the Linux env in general about this.

Touch screen drivers and support - garbage. Steam installer - crash. *OFFICIAL* video drivers from AMD - system failure unrecoverable.

FUCK DAT BRO
 
Domingo said:
I suspect a lot of those XP installs are corporate clients where upgrading everyone simply isn't worth the trouble. Banks, Healthcare, etc.
The advantages of Win 7 over XP for a lot of cheap-o systems aren't that big anyway. Enough of them wisely deleted the IE6 icon and replaced it with Firefox, fixing 75% of issues with XP instantly.
Click to expand...

It maikes me want to reinstall xp on my q8200, 6850 ati, 4gbs of ram.. I know it supports 2 processors, not sure if it would fully support my quad.. put xp on classic (98 look) and watch it zip! oh well..


Over all, i wished i jumped on the win 7 upgrade when it launched.
 
DrDoug said:
Install, uninstall, Install, uninstall, Install, uninstall, Install, uninstall, Install, uninstall ...

:D
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hmmmmm. I have an old xp system, should get running again, that i htink would be perfect to full around with linux on. Amd 64 2400xp, 512mb or 1 gb ram (cant remember), ati radeon x850. think it would be worth it to learn on?
 
kac77 said:
You can and most companies with IT departments with too much money do. However, generally that just wastes money.
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That should have been CAN'T. And there's almost never a thing as as too much money, just those that think that that haven't it when they really don't

kac77 said:
I am going to go ahead and say that Windows 8 for business use doesn't really make any sense... ever. It increases training costs. It increases incompatibility of programs. It mangles commonly used features, or makes them more obscure than ever before.
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When I hear this type of complain then I wonder just how much people have worked in enterprise IT. Currently working at one of largest of the large banks, we would welcome dealing with the changes in Windows 8 compared to the rest of it after the Collapse of 2008. Adapting and dealing with change from public perception to technology to staffing to management to tools to the very rules of how the game is played is everyday life for a large bank these days. If you can't deal with something like Windows 8 then you'd have more than a problem or 20 working in an environment that's coping with more change than even the IT sector proper these days.

kac77 said:
It doesn't really add anything that can't be added with better performing 3rd party tools, and the one thing that it does add (Metro) isn't needed.
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As I said, a key issue is mobility. There's no 3rd party tool that makes Windows 7 as mobile as Windows 8.

kac77 said:
It really is in so many ways a waste of time because the one thing business applications are supposed to do well (increase productivity) just isn't a forte of this operating system.
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Increasing productivity could mean an OS that supports the same business applications natively on a platform that gets 10 hours of battery life on a device under 2 lbs.

kac77 said:
It really should be avoided until Microsoft can Metro the entire experience, or drop Metro for business settings.
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So no business has any want or desire for Windows on light and battery efficient devices? Or touch capabilities? If so then why are businesses increasing their uptake of tablets? Particularly the iPad?
 
odditory said:
You can usually tell someone hasn't worked in IT when they make certain statements and its best to pat em in the head and move on. People that have never had to justify a large purchase to a higher up, never had to answer the question "what's the ROI on this for us, what are we gaining for the money we're spending?" And unfortunately there's not a whole lot you can say for W8 if a CIO or CFO were to ask.

Imagine you say "Well mainly we'd be helping Microsoft grow a profitable Metro store and our users could run smartphone apps on their desktops.". How long would you srill have a job? In reality that's all Window 8 really is from an enterprise standpoint, since there is no net increase in usability going to a tablet-optimized start screen for average end users in a workplace.
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Odd, since I have been working in IT for the last 14 years or so. How about you, 2 weeks?
 
Oh, odditory, and it would be ultimately a bad move to implement a large scale deployment of a largely untested operating system but, eh, what do I know. :rolleyes:
 
ManofGod said:
Odd, since I have been working in IT for the last 14 years or so. How about you, 2 weeks?
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pcjunkie said:
Just to elaborate the initial cost to retrain and support those employees to use the new metro/desktop without any other concerns made it cost prohibitive from the start. Had you ever done cost justification yourself the answer would have been obvious. If your not trolling then you clearly are pretending.
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Not pretending or trolling since, obviously, none of that was brought up in the post that I quoted. Only, "me no see start menu, me no want!"
 
bigdogchris said:
Windows 8 adoption rates are slowing down. What that tells me is that the few people out there who like 8, bought it. Now the 'real numbers' are being reflected by the rest of us who don't like it and are not buying it.

2 months after being out, Windows 8 has a smaller market share than Vista did after 2 months, and no one (almost) liked Vista.
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Yes, and how long was the gap from xp to vista? The gap from 7 to 8? Quite larger for xp to vista, giving more time for machines to break, hardware to get outdated, and software to advance. The backlash from win 8 isn't near as bad as vista was, it's just the fact that 7 is so good, and it is still a recent OS. Compared to how dated XP was when Vista came out. Vista had numerous software faults but the UI was the nearly the same as what people have always been used to. The jump to 8 is a whole new experience for people, and people don't like change. It's not that Win 8 itself is hated, or that it sucks, it's just a different user experience.

To make an analogy the jump from 7 to 8 is similar to making the jump from windows to another OS. Whereas the jump from Xp to Vista was just like making the jump from 98 to millennium, little changed on the ui side, a lot changed in the background. There are numerous reasons for the discrepancies, statistics never show the full story.
 
Zohar78 said:
hmmmmm. I have an old xp system, should get running again, that i htink would be perfect to full around with linux on. Amd 64 2400xp, 512mb or 1 gb ram (cant remember), ati radeon x850. think it would be worth it to learn on?
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Yes, that would definitely be good.
 
Zohar78 said:
hmmmmm. I have an old xp system, should get running again, that i htink would be perfect to full around with linux on. Amd 64 2400xp, 512mb or 1 gb ram (cant remember), ati radeon x850. think it would be worth it to learn on?
Click to expand...

Linux is very forgiving on hardware specs. I'm now on an old Dell Inspiron 9100 laptop (P4-3.4EE Gallatin s478, 1GB RAM, ATI 9800 256 Mb.) running Fedora 17 with KDE desktop and it's a smooth runner. This is my home garage laptop. I also run F17/KDE on my XPS m1730 (C2E X9000, 8GB RAM, Nvidia 8800GTX 512 MB SLI). I also run F17 on our home server but with XFCE for the desktop.

Our daughter runs Ubuntu/KDE but only to run Steam. She prefers Fedora too but gaming comes first. Kids got her priorities straight. :D Learning Linux is a bit of a hassle at first but there are tons of users out there who are more than happy to help. LinuxQuestions is a great place for information. I've been beating up 'nix since the late 80's so it's old hat for me.

Until the damned kids change something! Get off of my lawn! ;)
 
ManofGod said:
Not pretending or trolling since, obviously, none of that was brought up in the post that I quoted. Only, "me no see start menu, me no want!"
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Maybe you should ask first before making snide insulting comments then. Seems like you have a lot to learn even after 14 years in IT, or are you one of the those "non-people" person.
 
pcjunkie said:
Maybe you should ask first before making snide insulting comments then. Seems like you have a lot to learn even after 14 years in IT, or are you one of the those "non-people" person.
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Oh, I am sure we all have a lot to learn but, coming online and claiming something without detailing what you did will always get you in trouble.
 
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