Microsoft Surface Pro Now on Display in Some Retail Stores

Red Falcon said:
The biggest thing about that is that Apple will continue to support those apps well into the future.
The apps available for Windows 8 might disappear with Windows 9, along with their compatibility and availability, kind of like the gadgets for Vista/7 did.

I hope that doesn't happen though, unless Microsoft deems the new apps to be a "security risk" as well.
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Don't bring up the sidebar again. Skribbels are still sad that it went away. I liked having a CPU meter and the current weather on the edge of the screen or (with 7) in a thingey I could drag around the screen.
 
Red Falcon said:
The biggest thing about that is that Apple will continue to support those apps well into the future.
The apps available for Windows 8 might disappear with Windows 9, along with their compatibility and availability, kind of like the gadgets for Vista/7 did.

I hope that doesn't happen though, unless Microsoft deems the new apps to be a "security risk" as well.
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Microsoft may not have much experience in the ARM and Tablet world, but they've been doing a decent job maintaining backward compatibility experience with x86-64 Windows. Hopefully they will do the same with RT. If not, then they're being amazingly stupid in their "war" with Apple and Google.

They could afford to drop support with Zune and Phone 6.5/7, but with 8 they cannot do that anymore if they wish to remain relevant. The rumors about Windows "Blue" this coming summer pretty much tells me Microsoft will be adopting Android and iOS's more frequent updates to keep up with modern phones, tablets and features,

Only time will tell.
 
I do wish Microsoft improves their marketing.

So far the commercials portray Windows 8 and Windows 8 tablets with touchscreen monitors, tablets and the Surface itself. It doesn't portray the traditional non-touchscreen, keyboard & mouse user input of the computer. Their current marketing is showcasing it as a fun, hip, do-it-all convenient multi-tasking operating system and tablet (i.e.- Office Depot commercials "Depot Time", etc.).

They still do not effectively convey the difference between Windows 8 RT and Windows 8 non-RT. Nor do they state that non-RT (regular Windows) desktop programs will run on Windows 8 RT unless they obtain specific programs only available through the Windows Store. Knowing that most of the people buying stuff because it looks "trendy" or "hip" or "cool" may not be computer savvy, they may not know that you cannot take your traditional Windows desktop program then run and install them on Win 8 RT Surface or Win 8 RT tablets.

They, Microsoft, is really pushing the touchscreen interface as the default user input for Windows 8. Not the traditional keyboard and mouse.

It is a very ineffective or weak marketing on Microsoft's behalf in my opinion. It may sell tablets, but are poorly educating the public about the operating system, and the difference between RT and non-RT Surface, and Surface-like tablets.
 
octoberasian said:
It is a very ineffective or weak marketing on Microsoft's behalf in my opinion. It may sell tablets, but are poorly educating the public about the operating system, and the difference between RT and non-RT Surface, and Surface-like tablets.
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It's actually very effective, and savvy to offer these products. It's called options. If the consumer cannot educate themselves on what they are purchasing then that is there problem, not M$. There's nothing misleading here, they've spelled it out for you on the BOX. How else are they supposed to communicate the difference to people? Through ESP?

I've been seeing this mentality pop up the past few years, that if all of a sudden a company doesn't offer exactly what YOU think it should that it's bad marketing, or poor business practice - that they're ripping people off. What exactly do you feel you're entitled from these companies? Wait, I can answer that for you...

You don't have to buy their products. You are not compelled or forced to in any way.
 
It looks like the Surface Pro does indeed have a Wacom digitizer. People playing with the demo units are reporting that Wacom pens work with it. That's interesting.
 
kcmastrpc said:
It's actually very effective, and savvy to offer these products. It's called options.
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He's saying the marketing effort has been weak, not that they shouldn't be offering options. Frankly, I don't understand how you got from his point A to your point B. Perhaps you need to re-read his post.
 
kcmastrpc said:
It's actually very effective, and savvy to offer these products.
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Sales would seem to disagree with that assessment.

kcmastrpc said:
It's called options. If the consumer cannot educate themselves on what they are purchasing then that is there problem, not M$.
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Actually, it’s very much Microsoft’s problem. If you want the general public to buy your products you make it as easy for them as you possibly can.

Options are great, even necessary for many products, but every decision your customer has to make reduces your chances of a sale (even savvy customers are subject to this effect). Any research they have to do increases the chances they’ll find a competitor offering something they like/want/fits better.
 
I split the difference with my inexpensive laptop and my Nexus 7 tablet. The 7 inch tablet is nice and portable, and I have my laptop when I want to get real work done.

A tablet is nice, but I can't really get very much work done without a keyboard and mouse. Believe me, I tried.
 
I was wondering if heatless we going to be talking about a digital pen in another win8 thread. I'm not disappointed, mentioned twice already. If I had a lottery ticket for every time he had brought it up.. someone has a digital pen fetish.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I was wondering if heatless we going to be talking about a digital pen in another win8 thread. I'm not disappointed, mentioned twice already. If I had a lottery ticket for every time he had brought it up.. someone has a digital pen fetish.
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Didn't Freud write a whole chapter on Digital Pen Envy ... I think it was right between the chapter on the OS Complex and the CPU/GPU Fanboi Religious Wars :D:cool::p
 
Wish I could afford this but, I cannot justify buying one since I already have a Windows tablet. For those who do get it, enjoy.
 
Red Falcon said:
I didn't realize an Surface Pro was required for developing Android applications.
Even though, you know, people have been developing them on x86 desktops and laptops for years and years now.
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Having a touch screen on the development device makes it easier to develop programs that use a touch interface.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I was wondering if heatless we going to be talking about a digital pen in another win8 thread. I'm not disappointed, mentioned twice already. If I had a lottery ticket for every time he had brought it up.. someone has a digital pen fetish.
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I shouldn't read posts like this when I'm drinking something. I almost choked on my peppermint tea trying not to spit it on my laptop while laughing. :eek:
 
kcmastrpc said:
You don't have to buy their products. You are not compelled or forced to in any way.
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Not entirely true. For example millions of people that have bought laptops/desktops at consumer stores where Win7 is no longer available for sale but they needed the device for actual work and Mac wasn't a choice or too expensive or didnt run their apps . lo and behold they get it home and they're hostage, captive to Window 8 and have to tolerate it on their non-touch computer because they had no readily available alternative.

How much you wanna bet if there was a big icon in Metro to switch back to Windows 7, that button would get a whole lot of business
 
odditory said:
How much you wanna bet if there was a big icon in Metro to switch back to Windows 7, that button would get a whole lot of business
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And herp save your breath I'm not talking about the desktop icon, I'm talking about the ability to do away with the glorified Store interface completely and get back to real work without distractions.
 
heatlesssun said:
Cool, but my point was about developing touch apps including Android. If that's of no use to you fine but it is a reason why developers might like a device such as the Surface Pro.
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So $1000 device to 'boost productivity' developing an app for a deadend store, then you throw Android in there why? Demonstrates the whole point that it should've been made available in the form of an emulator environment to begin with - LIKE Android.
 
odditory said:
So $1000 device to 'boost productivity' developing an app for a deadend store, then you throw Android in there why? Demonstrates the whole point that it should've been made available in the form of an emulator environment to begin with - LIKE Android.
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It is available from a emulator environment. I've done plenty of touch screen development for windows and android on my Windows 8 desktop. But a touch emulator will never be as good as having actual touch hardware regardless of platform.
 
odditory said:
So $1000 device to 'boost productivity' developing an app for a deadend store, then you throw Android in there why?
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I was simply mentioning what is possible. I've not personally done much with Android development but touch worked with Android development tools in Windows 7 as well. Also, whatever one thinks of the Windows Phone and Windows 8 Stores, I'm not sure why one would call them deadends, will of their problems they aren't going away and they will continue to grow if slowly. Windows Phone certainly has had a rough time but it's starting to see some decent growth. And for all of the doom and gloom surrounding Windows 8, the number of machines running it is growing and will continue to do so for the life of the OS.

At least I do try to bring something different to talk about, whether one is a fan of 8 or not. It better than hearing the same stuff over and over in everything thread about Windows 8.

odditory said:
Demonstrates the whole point that it should've been made available in the form of an emulator environment to begin with - LIKE Android.
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Not exactly sure what you mean by this.

Veilrap said:
It is available from a emulator environment. I've done plenty of touch screen development for windows and android on my Windows 8 desktop. But a touch emulator will never be as good as having actual touch hardware regardless of platform.
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I never claimed that an emulated environment is as good as native one. I simply said that have touch input on the development device can make things easier as you don't have to deploy to the native environment constantly and still test an app with it native touch UI. And if one is developing a Windows 8 Modern UI app, there is no emulation needed as the Windows 8 is the native environment.
 
OldPueblo said:
Waiting for the Lenov Helix, the best hybrid device period.
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I definitely want to see what the Helix is about before getting the Surface Pro. I was kind of partial to the folding keyboard dock design before using such a design with 8 and the after getting the keyboard dock for my Samsung 500T I think this is my form factor of choice for a Windows 8. The Surface keyboard covers and stand are nice but they really don't convert the device to a laptop as well as a folding dock I think.
 
heatlesssun said:
I never claimed that an emulated environment is as good as native one. I simply said that have touch input on the development device can make things easier as you don't have to deploy to the native environment constantly and still test an app with it native touch UI. And if one is developing a Windows 8 Modern UI app, there is no emulation needed as the Windows 8 is the native environment.
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Sorry for any confusion, my post was meant to be in agreement. What I meant was having a Surface Pro for something like Android development is a boon because you should be able to more easily leverage testing because your dev machine has real touch instead of emulated mouse touch.
 
It might even be more useful for Android developers to test things made for Android devices on an Android device. Since many Android devices are inexpensive, actually using the platform itself for testing seems most sensible.
 
SkribbelKat said:
It might even be more useful for Android developers to test things made for Android devices on an Android device. Since many Android devices are inexpensive, actually using the platform itself for testing seems most sensible.
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Except that requires using two devices for testing: one for development and one for testing. Using something like the Surface Pro allows you to use one.
 
Veilrap said:
Except that requires using two devices for testing: one for development and one for testing. Using something like the Surface Pro allows you to use one.
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That's a good point. I wonder if it's possible to install Android natively on a Surface Pro. That'd be pretty awesome if you could. Then you could develop and test without emulating the Android environment.
 
SkribbelKat said:
That's a good point. I wonder if it's possible to install Android natively on a Surface Pro. That'd be pretty awesome if you could. Then you could develop and test without emulating the Android environment.
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there is an x86 port that just may work
 
Veilrap said:
Except that requires using two devices for testing: one for development and one for testing. Using something like the Surface Pro allows you to use one.
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Sorry for the confusion, you made a valid point, I was simply saying that I agree, obviously one would want to do final validation of an app natively on the target platform.

I do find it interesting why people seem to complain about the supposed lack of choice, options and flexibility in Windows 8 but when the choices, options and flexibility of Windows 8 are pointed somehow that's a bad thing.
 
SkribbelKat said:
That's a good point. I wonder if it's possible to install Android natively on a Surface Pro. That'd be pretty awesome if you could. Then you could develop and test without emulating the Android environment.
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Globox said:
there is an x86 port that just may work
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But virtually all Android devices are ARM based plus there's the issue of running an IDE on Android.
 
Veilrap said:
I know there is http://www.bluestacks.com/ which sounds interesting but I've never tried it myself.
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Globox said:
had this one running on my netbook awhile back.. goddamn that was fast
http://www.android-x86.org/, did everything on passive cooling alone
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It'd probably be pretty light on the hardware which might extend battery life. I'd be sorta worried about getting driver support for Surface-specific hardware though. It'd be a fun project later when there are cheap second had Surface Pros around.

heatlesssun said:
But virtually all Android devices are ARM based plus there's the issue of running an IDE on Android.
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I'm pretty sure there are a few native IDEs for Androids out there and Intel has done a little work on performing on-the-fly code translation for their Medfield Atom phones which are, of course, x86 but are able to run ARM-based stuff from Google Play. Dunno if those components are available for just anyone to grab and use without doing some looking around.
 
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