Opinion: Windows 8 Is Unusable

durandal1707 said:
Nah. Yahtzee is funny. This guy just has a lisp and whines a bunch.

And as far as Windows 8 I'm not the biggest fan but this guy just seemed bad at it. Definitely some pebkac going on....
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Exactly my thoughts. Different ≠ worse. This guy reminds me of the guy who bought a Vista PC from me once and tried to return it because he couldn't find the shut down button.
 
Oldie said:
I do agree it's not intuitive and the continuity is definitely lacking, I can't call it unusable, it just has a bit of a learning curve..and metro does completely lack any queues on how to operate it. Once you figure it out though, it works just fine.

I definitely see zero benefit to introducing it to my office employees though. There's a learning curve and real upside.
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Ding ding ding, I was hesitant on using windows 8 all the time but during a long trip over 2 weeks I just learned how to use it proficiently and it wasn't a big deal now I go back and forth between 7 and 8 without issue mostly keep 7 around for same reasons kept vista or xp around there are some things that just don't carry over or carry over well.
 
Jaer44 said:
So this guy is trying to be like Ben Yahtzee Croshaw? Even used the same style/art that he uses on Zero Punctuation.
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Yep. Any doubts to the contrary disappear at 5:19.

If only he also stole the concise editing that ZP uses.
 
ianken said:
Have you TRIED it? Do you have an ability to field test with an subset of your users?

Jesus. Yes, by all means. Base your corporate business decisions on an internet video from a plagiarist.
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A business doesn't have time to re-teach users EVERYTHING about the OS. A business is about making money, and if Windows XP (not even 7) is enough, then most businesses won't upgrade. The only reason businesses upgrade is when they fall behind on some standard they can't hack around or when they no longer have to rely on their own homebrew. If Windows 8 helped them make money, they'd move to it in a second, but guess what helps them make money? A familiar interface that has existed since early to mid 90's.

I mean think about it, if businesses are still getting around to upgrading from XP to Windows 7, then there isn't a chance in hell they'll move to Windows 8 anytime soon.
 
ianken said:
Have you TRIED it? Do you have an ability to field test with an subset of your users?
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Yes.
No. Purchase, configure, distribute and support. No user training ever done and don't even think about paying to train people.

ianken said:
Jesus. Yes, by all means. Base your corporate business decisions on an internet video from a plagiarist.
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Yeah that's exactly what I did. :rolleyes:
 
ianken said:
Have you TRIED it? Do you have an ability to field test with an subset of your users?

Jesus. Yes, by all means. Base your corporate business decisions on an internet video from a plagiarist.
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I'm going to guess this guy has never run an IT Department. Just a guess.
 
lol, MS doesn't need to be defended by the white knights in this thread. This video was posted weeks ago on /. and most of his points are quite true. There are workarounds, but how many average users are going to delve deep into settings to disable really annoying stuff?
 
Oldie said:
I've been using 8 as my main OS for several months now and have zero problem doing whatever I want to do when I want to do it. Nothing randomly pops up and I can get anywhere I want to at will. Now I use zero metro apps and windows seems to be pretty content to let me do that.

I don't see any compelling reason to move to it from seven, but it's far from unusable. I'll admit I raged a bit at first, but I'm running it completely stock with no UI mods and I see no compelling reason to move back to seven either.

I mean he's ranting about not being able to get to the control panel. Press the windows key on your keyboard, start typing control panel..and it comes up immediately.
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I'm in exactly the same boat. As I provide computer support/repair for a living, I've been running 8 on my work computer for almost a year without any sort of modifications. In fact, I've found Windows 8 to be more usable than Windows 7, thanks to included features, such as hypervisor.

Yes, there's a steep learning cure. Yes, many of the UI decisions are clearly not intended for desktop use. Yes, there are a lot of things that could be improved. But, calling it "unusable", absolutely not.
 
ballistic90 said:
It's definitely usable.

Not intuitive, though.

I think I just summed up my experience with Windows 8 in 6 words.
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That's precisely what I didn't like when I tried out a Windows 8 tablet. Sure, I can accomplish a certain task, but it's filled with weird gestures, strange menu locations, and a lot of WTF-ery.
 
fenixv said:
Disable start screen.
Install StartIsBack.

Done. Once the familiar desktop is back, the improvements under the hood make windows 8 much more worth it. It takes literally about 15 seconds to get the old desktop back.
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Problem is, there isn't actually any real tangible improvements, nor useful new features.

So with the PITA and compatibility problems, it's a PITA for a total gain of negative something and negative money. Getting some software to make it more like 7 doesn't fix the fact it's a worthless iteration (with a crap UI). :D
 
If you're currently using win 7 and frequently wish that it would take a few extra mouse clicks to complete your usual tasks, then win 8 will be right up your alley.
 
Sovereign said:
That's precisely what I didn't like when I tried out a Windows 8 tablet. Sure, I can accomplish a certain task, but it's filled with weird gestures, strange menu locations, and a lot of WTF-ery.
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So even on a tablet its below average? This OS just keeps getting funnier and funnier.
 
Hell I think we're ahead of the OS curve with windows 7. Anyone else notice when watching the news on TV? All the pc's I've seen in the background are still using windows xp. Any news network, local news, anytime there's a story on the stock market, all the trading machines running xp...... etc.
 
Wrecked Em said:
If you're currently using win 7 and frequently wish that it would take a few extra mouse clicks to complete your usual tasks, then win 8 will be right up your alley.
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Haha, exactly.

Also, if you feel that you need everything in fullscreen and in your face then W8 might be for you.
 
ballistic90 said:
It's definitely usable.

Not intuitive, though.
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Exactly this, was a serious PITA when I first booted it up.

Now its actually pretty damn slick. But heck, even just finding where to shut down the computer is overly complicated and too many clicks.
 
Links432 said:
Idon't think it is nearly as bad as he makes it out to be. .
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Agreed, although he may have points there are tons of problems with his examples, decisions and methods. While I wouldn't give windows 8 the blue ribbon of excellence I use it on my gaming box and I'm just fine with it. The problem comes in with "the changing of the guard" more so with how things are done with xbox music and from what I hear selective syncing and such is terrible with windows phone 8.

I think this guy wants clicks for his outrageous rants more so than the actual content of his work and effort. Let me quote this:

"To properly explore this, I once again formatted the hard drive of my home..." "and made the decision to use Windows Vista as my sole home operating system for 30 days."
From this article: http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article/2007/04/04/30_days_windows_vista

Doesn't sound like he did that this time, seems like he got a shiny new acer and went to town. Now - That is mistake #1 and a HUGE one in evaluation. Microsoft allows their vendors to heavily customize the pre-installation of the OS, for someone that is familiar with the style guide lines of operating systems I'd expect them to know that.

Because he bought a prebuilt and installed system he didn't get to sit through the video that loops over and over and tells you about the four hotspots that bring up the program jump list and the charms bar. Seriously, I installed on an SSD and have been installing since the developer preview and I know that is new to the actual release and it loops over and over and over! That would also go to the problem of him pulling the gesture without asking. I believe it also covers at least one way to get out of programs and if not, you'd still get to the charms bar, see the flag that has been on you beloved start menu button since its creation and hit that, maybe it would even prompt you to hit the windows key on the keyboard instead... yeah that button I use for shortcuts all day!

Moving on, I bet your COA sticker is under the battery, so you don't rub it off. The whole recovery media thing has been beaten to death and its not what you want. You don't want a recovery CD you want an install disc which looping back to the first issue, you didn't install the OS yourself.

Look I could spend all day saying how I am sorry I have looked at the video and how I disagree and how it has devalued my opinion of all his past and future reviews but I will leave with this:

"
The Bottom Line


It's a lemon...
"
The conclusion of the article linked before.


Compare that with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYet-qf1jo&feature=player_embedded#t=1046s


The video review we are talking about at 17:26, where he prints "WINDOWS VISTA: ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, PROBABLY NOT AS BAD AS WE REMEMBER" Caps are his, not mine.


Like I said before, Windows 8 is no pretty prize but its not pig in the mud and if I had to grade this review I'd call it invalid from a lack of a correct start.
 
While he has some valid points and does put forth a lot of effort to explain conventions relevant to design as it applies historically, I personally think he overlooks one main point.

That is to understand that while we have all grown accustomed to what has evolved to be the " standard" conventions of computing and how it applies to an OS UI, the industry is actually at a point holistically where a step change is becoming necessary.

I will not say that Microsoft got every aspect of this new approach correct but who does on their first try? Was Windows 3.1 perfect when it came out, of course not, nothing ever is. I really think that this point in history is more of a comparison to the change from DOS to the original Windows interface (GUI). The reason I say this is not because it is exactly the same sort of change but its the signaling of a "new" beginning in the industry. Like it or not the world of computing is changing. Mobile devices, ultrabooks, tablets, smart TVs, these are all examples of our evolution of computing and how it applies to media consumption and also to doing work.

Microsoft has to hit the ground running in an ecosystem of products that will see all of their media products and productivity products becoming one cohesive world of computing. That means contending with trendy hardware companies like Apple (yes they make software too, I know) and a massively fragmented approach like Google has with Android and Chromebook type stuff.

My opinion is that if you remove your own personal experience from your perspective for a minute and take a step back and look at where the industry is trending, I think you will find that Microsoft is one of the only companies making a "leap", in to the next world of computing. They also have the resources, product lines and people to truly make the first cohesive ecosystem first (not yet but soon).

So with touch screens becoming very cost effective even as desktop monitors and casual computing becoming more touch friendly in tablets and even dumb terminals (monitors with lightweight computing powered ultimately by cloud architectures, think stuff like the Nvidia shield) Microsoft will have a foot in the door in part with Windows 8. It is not perfect by any means and it won't win the hearts of everyone long term for sure but it is the first step in a new direction. Eventually we will be living in a world of VR and haptic feedback and touch everything (ewww....) so sitting at a desktop/laptop and complaining about a missing start button will be trivial.

In summary, agreed, Windows 8 is not the best Operating System ever, its a taste, sometimes a bitter one but a taste of things to come and I am happy to see one company with the resources taking risks, moving forward and yes if you wait till Windows 9 most of the teething will be ironed out but we are seeing the start of a new blood line here......
 
Mister Natural said:
Hell I think we're ahead of the OS curve with windows 7. Anyone else notice when watching the news on TV? All the pc's I've seen in the background are still using windows xp. Any news network, local news, anytime there's a story on the stock market, all the trading machines running xp...... etc.
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Most companies are several years behind the newest stuff unless they're new or their old stuff is so old it's no longer functioning for them.
 
Bishop_joshua said:
This maybe off topic, but me personally, I still don't see how they call windows 8 "windows" because there are no windows. The only reason they keep the desktop so you can use old software. If they could it would of been gone as well.

Well, thats my feelings just want to voice my view.
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Yeah, it's Microsoft Tiles now. They moved from the wall to the floor.
 
Win 8 isn't that bad. This guy is being unreasonable. I miss the start menu, but it took me all of 5 minutes to learn the new layouts and conventions for the metro-esque applications. If you hate it that much you can get apps to put the start menu there, as well as booting directly to desktop. You never really need to even use the start page thing unless you're using metro apps. Bottom line is it is a faster OS than Win7.
 
The only thing I was impressed with of Windows 8 was the boot times on a mechanical drive. But if you have a SSD, Windows 7 boots way faster and actually has the benefit of being a good operating system.. :p
 
SkribbelKat said:
If you watch the whole video, he does get around to explaining that part.

Anyhow, though he hits lotsa good points, Windows 8 isn't unusable. It's clunky and lacking in design elegance and user-friendliness of comparable modern operating systems like Mint or OSX, but it does work despite being sometimes a pain to use.
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Mint I kind of understand, thought it's rather clunky but you find OSX modern and useable? :D :D :D

Everything derived from Gnome pretty much sucks when you put taskbar on left or right. Simple things they never fixed for years, damn it. I am sad to say that only Canonical seems to get UI right at this point. They even beat MS to a certain degree.
 
Jaer44 said:
So this guy is trying to be like Ben Yahtzee Croshaw? Even used the same style/art that he uses on Zero Punctuation.
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No shit. The guy is a me too!

Besides, is anybody actually going to sit through 30 minutes of his ramblings?
 
if your job is support and you have to assist computer novices on its use, you'd begin to hate it too.
 
Then you better be more creative and just tell them novices to type this shit. They're going to find what they're looking for. Unless they're illiterate, too.
 
I have 8 installed on two laptops.

I like it, it works very well on my digitized pen laptop, would be better on a real touch screen.

On my non touch laptop which I use for word processing, light browsing, watching movies, and some gaming its just fine as well.

After you get used to the new function of the windows key its pretty good.
I will say more advance tasks are slightly less intuitive.

Will I install it on my desktop? Possibly, if my HDD dies, or my win 7 install gets messed up.

Cliffs: This works very well for laptops and portables. More advanced power users might be pissed off.
 
Links432 said:
I do not agree with him, I have been using Windows 8 since about the time it came out and while that has been over the 30 days he used it, I don't think it is nearly as bad as he makes it out to be. I don't like how some things are not as easy to do but to say that it is Unusable takes it a little too far. It is different from what came before it and like those it takes time to learn things.
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That's the point, you shouldn't have to "learn" an OS. I don't mean editing the registry, I mean getting things done in an intuitive manner. Having to Google or waste time finding anything is an indication of a failed design. I never had to "learn" Android.
 
PornoSatan said:
So even on a tablet its below average? This OS just keeps getting funnier and funnier.
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Compared to iPad/Android? Absolutely below average!

The demo woman showed me all sorts of gestures I could use. None of them made any sense! Of course, this is to some extent personal preference (and I'm sure the Win8 evangelists would call me stupid--say I'm the problem). Nevertheless, I can pick up an Android phone/tablet and figure it out. Same with iPhone/iPad. Not so with Windows 8.

The UI changes are too big--none of it makes sense. The argument "If you use Windows 8 on your computer this wouldn't happen" only makes sense if we accept the idea that Windows 8 is worth using on a computer--which I don't agree with.

My mom tried Win8 when she was buying my dad a tablet. She went with a Kindle instead. She couldn't figure out half of it (she owns an iPad).
 
Contrary to popular belief IT support personnel are not there to teach people on how to use computers. They are there to solve issues on when they arise. Users are responsible for their own training. Most IT guys are stretched to the limits as it is and training would totally clusterfuck them. 99% of you don't work as an IT professional so you would have the faintest idea of what its like dealing with IT day in day out.
 
zombielando said:
The only thing I was impressed with of Windows 8 was the boot times on a mechanical drive. But if you have a SSD, Windows 7 boots way faster and actually has the benefit of being a good operating system.. :p
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I put Windows 8 temporarily on my gaming machine, and it felt like it booted up slower than 7.

All MS has to do is bring back the start menu, and it's problems will all go away. I'm aware of the KB shortcuts but things are spaced way too far out (especially the search) and it really slows me down. Nothing can really be anything faster than clicking on the start button, typing in what I want, and having everything I need show up in a small list directly above.
 
All the credit this guy earned with me with his "why you should hate data cap" video, went out the window with this one....wow.
 
So basically what everyone is saying is "Its not that bad, just remove X and configure Y and its just like Windows 7 with a better back end".

I ask this then - why even add the Start screen if removing it makes the experience better? The whole point of reviewing something is to use it in its current state and as the manufacturer intended, not by modifying it to make it better. Anything every created can be modified and made better....thats not the point of a review.

Also I think it lends credence to his case that he only needed 30 minutes with the OS to form a conclusion. If he was able to find that many valid complaints in 30 minutes then what will he find in a week?

Also back on the start menu....why the fuck would anyone in their right mind want that shit on a desktop PC with a mouse and a full sized monitor? Nobody! Because you can't multitask if every application is full screen. Obviously...So why keep that as the default user interface? Why not make it optional? Like if the device it is getting installed on has a touchscreen display then install Start Screen, if not then leave that shit out.

/rant
 
Sovereign said:
Compared to iPad/Android? Absolutely below average!

The demo woman showed me all sorts of gestures I could use. None of them made any sense!
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Swiping from the left edge to switch apps or swiping from the top edge down to close an app doesn't make any sense? I've seen kids pick this stuff up instantly on a Windows 8 of mine.
 
If you can ignore the dumb jokes, he makes a lot of good points about the OS. His analysis was very good.
 
heatlesssun said:
Swiping from the left edge to switch apps or swiping from the top edge down to close an app doesn't make any sense? I've seen kids pick this stuff up instantly on a Windows 8 of mine.
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Not to a lot of people, it doesn't make much sense.

Out of the box, when you first installed the DP (I assume), did you know that's how you close apps? If so, you're one in a million. Tons of people had to be told. Sure, once you know how, it's easy as pie. But, it's not mentioned. It's not told. It just is. There is nothing to hint at it being the way it is.

Desktop works as it always has, though.
 
heatlesssun said:
Swiping from the left edge to switch apps or swiping from the top edge down to close an app doesn't make any sense? I've seen kids pick this stuff up instantly on a Windows 8 of mine.
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Oh look, the "If you don't get it you must be inferior/doing it wrong/not giving it a chance" crowd.

No, it doesn't. Not when the normal user experience is based on other methods.

Just because something can be taught doesn't mean the method is good. Yes, I could "learn" Windows 8, but as was noted earlier in this thread, if an OS requires "learning" for basic operational tasks it's been done badly.
 
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