NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

everyone can always use an external USB optical drive if they had to.

I vote no. (total legacy, what next, add 3.5" disk drive)
Are optical drives really "legacy" if there's still stuff being released for them? What defines legacy? :confused:
 
I wouldn't say an ODD is legacy just yet. It's still in transition. It has somewhat gone the way of the do-do bird in the enthusiast community (except for may be some potential HTPC users of this case), but to the mainstream casual user may still want it. (of course this isn't exactly your casual user case)

Whether one really wants an ODD ismore of a concern for sales than does someone need it. Want drives sales. The fact there is any debate at all means there are enough who want an ODD or who are on the fence about it that not having it may turn them off to the case.

Making it an option does address the split between the ODD and No-ODD camps, but adds to the cost. Maybe not so much to the buyer, since the added cost can be diluted across many units, but to the seller/OEM.

Unless you're the mfg. you can't make a ODD capable panel demand, so you have to stock them. Now you've got proprietary parts on the shelf that are difficult to sell unless with a case. Now you have overstock. But you consider loses like this into your numbers and it should not make a significant impact.

You'll also get feedback as the cases actually start to sell. No one buying the ODD option? Stop making the option and sell off the overstock. Majority of buyers getting ODD option? Make it standard.
 
I consider myself an enthusiast and I still want a blu-ray drive in my PC so I can rip discs to my NAS (you know, legal backup of media I've bought).

Sometimes I buy games on DVDs. Is this behavior really that rare? I'm getting the floppy blues.
 
I consider myself an enthusiast and I still want a blu-ray drive in my PC so I can rip discs to my NAS (you know, legal backup of media I've bought).

Sometimes I buy games on DVDs. Is this behavior really that rare? I'm getting the floppy blues.

Don't you have a separate pc for media ripping? I have a small file server that I use for the optical drive if I'm really craving that badly to use a disk. Adding even a slot to this case feels like it's diluting the minimalism and destroying the clean look by adding a dust collection slot.
 
I only keep one PC active and hooked up at a time, the rest are netbooks/ultrabooks/laptops without drives. Oh and some boxes around my TV that stream stuff. ;)
 
Don't you have a separate pc for media ripping? I have a small file server that I use for the optical drive if I'm really craving that badly to use a disk. Adding even a slot to this case feels like it's diluting the minimalism and destroying the clean look by adding a dust collection slot.


Im leaning that way also. Isnt the point to be minimal? minmal =/= as much packed in as possible.

Besides, you can get an external bluray drive for ALOT less than an internal slim slot load bluray drive.
 
I consider myself an enthusiast and I still want a blu-ray drive in my PC so I can rip discs to my NAS (you know, legal backup of media I've bought).

Sometimes I buy games on DVDs. Is this behavior really that rare? I'm getting the floppy blues.

I only keep one PC active and hooked up at a time, the rest are netbooks/ultrabooks/laptops without drives. Oh and some boxes around my TV that stream stuff. ;)

You sir, are a prime candidate for a portable, external ODD.
 
You sir, are a prime candidate for a portable, external ODD.
I suppose I am. I kinda hate having loose things hanging around though, bit of a neat freak.

You're probably right though and I'm just being stubborn. :p
 
I kinda hate having loose things hanging around though

That's exactly why you should use an external. When you aren't using it, stick it in a closet or drawer. On the one day out of a month you want to use it, you can hook it up to any of your computers or laptops.
 
That's exactly why you should use an external. When you aren't using it, stick it in a closet or drawer. On the one day out of a month you want to use it, you can hook it up to any of your computers or laptops.

I think he meant that he didn't ever want something like that hanging off of his computer, and it looks much cleaner as a permanent slot.

I vote for the slot, also, count me in for one.
 
That's exactly why you should use an external. When you aren't using it, stick it in a closet or drawer. On the one day out of a month you want to use it, you can hook it up to any of your computers or laptops.
Except I use my ODD a lot more often than that. :p

Amzee is more accurate.

I don't think the slot hurts the case's top facade. The only downside to having the option to add an ODD is if the slot isn't filled, it might leak a little noise from inside the case or allow in some extra dust.
 
+1 on NOT including an ODD

I just don't see the need for one in a gaming rig. Even when I have a physical disk, I go straight to the website and download the newest version anyways and just use the serial code so that it's tied to my account. Personally the only thing ODD's are good for is ripping disks and since this isn't a NAS, can't store lots of disks... I say what's the point
 
Another vote for no ODD, though if it doesn't make the case bigger or edge out other features then I don't really mind so much.
 
IMHO the ODD slot disturbs the clean top panel.

It will be a dust magnet for anyone who prefers their rad fans to be exhaust.

(We can't actually tell at the moment how many of the people who are "voting" are actually going to put down the $200 + upto $55 shipping for this case. It might be better to plan for both and do the vote at pre-order time.)
 
(We can't actually tell at the moment how many of the people who are "voting" are actually going to put down the $200 + upto $55 shipping for this case. It might be better to plan for both and do the vote at pre-order time.)

This is a very good point. Now that you guys pretty much have the finalized design of the case (cutting an ODD slot doesn't seem that big of a deal), you should try working on the funding side, not only to see how much capital you can raise, but to see what the buyers actually want. I've already mentioned that I think this is going to be ~$300, or the equivalent of a high end Lian Li or Silverstone case. At or under $300, I'm in.
 
I vote yes. If there isn't any significant extra cost, why not? Dust might be a problem, but maybe there could be some kind of drive bay shield to stop dust getting in?

Also, once we get a `final draft' of the design, I'd be ready to put some money towards a prototype (at least).
 
Given the surprising number of interest in the ODD-compatible kit, we are going to TRY and offer it as an option.

We crammed all the feature we can into this case, it's time to get the prototype built - we plan to add the ODD-compatible kit to test the option.
 
You mean it's finally time to unleash the power of this fully armed and operational nerd forum?

Sweet.
 
wewt!!! lets make it happen!

Given the surprising number of interest in the ODD-compatible kit, we are going to TRY and offer it as an option.

We crammed all the feature we can into this case, it's time to get the prototype built - we plan to add the ODD-compatible kit to test the option.
 
Absolutely, positively YES to (slim) ODD! Not having that is a fatal mistake imo, and a significant characteristic of the SG05. (love the creative upward facing slot)
 
Necere, if worst comes to worst you can just leave the mounts for the drive and let us cut our own slots. That's what dremels are for, right?
 
Necere, if worst comes to worst you can just leave the mounts for the drive and let us cut our own slots. That's what dremels are for, right?

This would be a decent compromise. Leave the mounts and possibly a paper overlay of where the cut should be. If you want an ODD, make the cut yourself.

To be honest, as a community, I'm sure that someone here who has access, and the skills, to a solid set of tools could probably do this for a small fee. Instead of making two different top pieces (with and without ODD), just make 1 top piece without it, and said craftsman can charge like $10 bucks to make a professional looking slot. Shipping for the top piece alone shouldn't be more than $5 using a flat rate box. $20 would probably be the BASE cost of a newly fab'd top piece anyway, if you were to offer it as an optional accessory.
 
We MIGHT offer 2 top covers with each unit, 1 cover without ODD cutout, 1 with ODD cutout.

That would make things easier. I don't want to complicate operations by adding variations or uncertainties to the product - the same logic behind the "sticker logo" and "1 color only".

For the backers, having an extra ODD cover will cater to a bigger audience for resale.
 
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We MIGHT offer 2 top covers with each unit, 1 cover without ODD cutout, 1 with ODD cutout.

That would make things easier. I don't want to complicate operations by adding variations or uncertainties to the product - the same logic behind the "sticker logo" and "1 color only".

For the backers, having an extra ODD cover will cater to a bigger audience for resale.

that sounds pricey though. how much would that add to the price, $15?
 
The shipping price is not equal.

Using United States Postal Service as an example (Fedex & UPS cost ~ $200):
USA, 6-10 business days, > UK, $55.25
USA, 6-10 business days, > Spain, $52.55
USA, 6-10 business days, > Germany $49.35

NO PROMISES on the price because :
1) current logistic company shipping from Lian Li in Taiwan to USA didn't confirm they can ship via USPS
2) current logistic company will charge us a) warehouse fee, b) handling fee, c) shipping label fee

I'm still researching, but if you know how I can get cheaper shipping, please share.

I just sign up and want to give some support for this project as I have been thinking of an ITX build for sometimes and I have not find a case in the current market that meet my needs and I think this case will do.

I will give some insight/suggestions regarding logistic since I work for a Taiwanese freight forwarder company in SFO.

From the above post, it looks like you want your logistic company to either ship the entire shipment from Taiwan to USA via USPS or Taiwan's postal service. Freight forwarder doesn't like to do that as they do not make any profit on the airfreight with postal services and they will charge you alot of misc. fee to make up the profit.

I think the best way to serve the US market is to have the entire shipment imported into the US by Ocean as Air shipping is very expensive. Also there will be import duty and taxes, etc that you have to pay as an importer. Once the shipment is imported into the US and cleared Customs, you can ask the freight forwarder company to do distribution for you via your FedEx or UPS account (if you have one). Of course the freight forwarder will charge you a distribution fee for each package.

Another way is to have your freight forwarder/logistics company in Taiwan to do the distribution directly to the entire world via your FedEx or UPS account but have the consignee/receiver pay for the duty and taxes when the shipment is imported. FedEx/UPS will collect the fee before they release the shipment.

Either way shipping is not cheap and duty and taxes can be a killer too if the value of your cargo is high (keep the value low ;) ).

Let me know if you have any questions.
 
I think zgundam88 imports HTPC cases ( http://perfecthometheater.com ), if my guess is correct, but those companies that manufacture the cases don't sell in the US.

Couldn't Lian Li or Silverstone just ship them in with their normal shipments? I'm sure they have discounted shipping and/or connections, given their cases are sold at most online computer retailers.
 
I just sign up and want to give some support for this project as I have been thinking of an ITX build for sometimes and I have not find a case in the current market that meet my needs and I think this case will do.

I will give some insight/suggestions regarding logistic since I work for a Taiwanese freight forwarder company in SFO.

From the above post, it looks like you want your logistic company to either ship the entire shipment from Taiwan to USA via USPS or Taiwan's postal service. Freight forwarder doesn't like to do that as they do not make any profit on the airfreight with postal services and they will charge you alot of misc. fee to make up the profit.

I think the best way to serve the US market is to have the entire shipment imported into the US by Ocean as Air shipping is very expensive. Also there will be import duty and taxes, etc that you have to pay as an importer. Once the shipment is imported into the US and cleared Customs, you can ask the freight forwarder company to do distribution for you via your FedEx or UPS account (if you have one). Of course the freight forwarder will charge you a distribution fee for each package.

Another way is to have your freight forwarder/logistics company in Taiwan to do the distribution directly to the entire world via your FedEx or UPS account but have the consignee/receiver pay for the duty and taxes when the shipment is imported. FedEx/UPS will collect the fee before they release the shipment.

Either way shipping is not cheap and duty and taxes can be a killer too if the value of your cargo is high (keep the value low ;) ).

Let me know if you have any questions.
Great information. Glad I've never had to deal with importing from outside the US (I produce t-shirts). :)

I think W360 posted earlier about setting up an entity for paying the customs fees for importing the cases into the US for future shipping.

I'd volunteer to help ship out those boxes pro bono. One week of dudes sleeping in a warehouse printing out shipping labels, packing boxes and eating pizza sounds like some weird kind of fun to me.
 
Sure. But if it's a feature people want, may as well, right?
So difficult this issue, some people will hate the slot and it will be a deal breaker, and some will say it's a deal breaker if there is no way to mount an ODD. You might just have to make a call based on your gut feeling and what you and wahaha360 prefer.

You already made the major compromises to arrive at a viable design that you and most others liked. Do you really need to compromise that design? Opinion is split now, but how much clamour was there for an ODD slot before you raised the possibility? I thought most people were excited with the original design?

The cost option is a good solution, even if it's a bit expensive for those that want it. I paid $25+tax for my PC-A05N option top, so I think $15-$35 is a reasonable price range for those that want the slotted top. If you need to manufacture an option kit for every unit then obviously the price should be much less, perhaps ≤$10, but it's difficult to say for sure without knowing the basic unit price. Don't forget that if you include an option part it will have to be costed for sufficient packaging and shipping + duty and sales tax, so it's not just the manufacture cost.
 
I think zgundam88 imports HTPC cases ( http://perfecthometheater.com ), if my guess is correct, but those companies that manufacture the cases don't sell in the US.

Couldn't Lian Li or Silverstone just ship them in with their normal shipments? I'm sure they have discounted shipping and/or connections, given their cases are sold at most online computer retailers.

Nope, guess wrong. I process export shipments from the USA to the rest of the world.

That is a good suggestion, if Lian Li or Silverstone is willing to ship it as prepaid shipment (freight forwarder bill Lian Li or Silverstone for shipping charges and Lian Li or Silverstone bill the shipping charges to OP along with the production of the cases). They should have good discounted shipping due to volume. OP will still have to pay for the duty and taxes once it arrives in the US.
 
Since the reward (NCASE M1), is not a commercial product (there is no online or retail store selling NCASE M1, it is technically a sample).

Therefore, can the reward (NCASE M1) be considered a "Gift", thus duty-free to international backers of this project?

For all potential backers outside of US, this will affect you.
 
Is this question directed at general backers, or at people with actual knowledge of shipping?

Also, would a kickstarter count as an online store for these purposes?
 
is not a commercial product (there is no online or retail store selling NCASE M1, it is technically a sample).

No, it's not a really sample and it has value.

If the consignment is misrepresented it most likely would be held until all due tax is paid at the highest rate, possibly with some penalty e.g. any duty relief normally expected for a correctly declared item would be disallowed.

Therefore, can the reward (NCASE M1) be considered a "Gift", thus duty-free to international backers of this project?

For the EU duty and VAT is payable on gifts with a value above €45 (£36 in the UK) For non-gift i.e. personal import, the relief is only €22 (£15 in the UK) It isn't much, and the value includes the cost of shipping.

N.B. some people declare the value falsely low, but you're rolling the dice with that as well as your shipping agent will only give you insurance to the declared value (folk on eBay are always getting stung this way for lost parcels)

The EU guidelines for import duty and sales tax in English as published on the Republic of Ireland tax office:and HMRC for the UK:
 
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Since the reward (NCASE M1), is not a commercial product (there is no online or retail store selling NCASE M1, it is technically a sample).

Edit -- didn't see Ian's post, I'm making the same points :)

Saying it's "technically a sample" doesn't make it so. All countries in the EU will have specific rules concerning the contents of the package, and its value. As soon as it's insured for a particular value, that will be a prime factor in determining its value. Shipping companies are required to report all packages to the customs.

I can mention specifically for Dutch customs, that if a package is non-commercial (ie, you are my friend and you are sending me a gift) then there is no customs levy for values up to 45 euro. Above 45 euro but below 700 euro, then a reduced import duty is applied of 2.5%. Above 700 euro value it's 21%.

So if you insure the package for 200 euro and mark it as gift, the import duty is going to be only 5 euro. Which is fine.
 
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