ASUS/BENQ LightBoost owners!! Zero motion blur setting!

Yes, I can run both 3d and 2d mode without vsync, it looks pretty bad though, tearing and stuttering.
Double check you aren't forcing vsync in the drivers or the game. Maybe test another game.

I run all my games with vsync, I don't seem to get the old halving framerate issue on my 660ti.

LE:
I don't have triple buffering enabled now.
 
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Halving frame rates.. sounds like you didn't have triple buffering enabled.
 
YES!!!! finally scored an Asus vg278he for 300 bux from newegg!

Shit. :D now it's time to try this out!
 
Newegg had it for $200 off or did you get an open box or something?
 
Wondering what games anyone with a single 680 is able to play at 120fps+. I know the source engine games are no problem (and they are a lot of fun luckily). The gtx 780 might have a 25% or 30-something % performance boost but a single one still might not cut it even on "high" settings for some games. I don't mind turning off AA and a few effects if I have to. Just curious about what I might spend down the road. Dual gpu seems almost mandatory outside of source games and maybe squeaking by in skyrim or such, and more demanding games always come out eventually. I'm not the type that needs to use AA all the time or keep every game at superduperultra+. though if I can afford it, playing games at high fps on "high" or a "high" base settings tweaked to something of a "high plus". I was fairly happy getting 75 - 110 fps on some games on my non lightboost2 120hz TN but that won't cut it for the 1ms 94% crt-like clarity I'd be shooting for if I went all out on lightboost2 blur reduction someday.
 
I have the BenQ XL2411T, when lightboost is ON I have weird "scanlines" all over the screen, more noticeable on upper right when not moving, and everywhere when moving

It's a bit annoying :
http://dhainne.free.fr/weirdscanlines.jpg

Am I the only one ? is it doing this on other models ?
 
ru.imfine said:
i have them too at benq xl2411t with lightboost enabled. they do not bother me.
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I think this is apparently a (normal) interference between backlight strobing & LCD inversion.I did see some very strange inversion behavior as strobing seems to interact with LCD inversion. LCD inversion is a little-known process of rapidly alternative positive voltage and negative voltage every other refresh, usually in a checkerboard pixel pattern, in order to prevent LCD image retention.

From: http://www.techmind.org/lcd/

Inversion

In liquid crystal pixel cells, it is only the magnitude of the applied voltage which determines the light transmission (the transmission vs. voltage function is symmetrical about 0V). To prevent polarisation (and rapid permanent damage) of the liquid crystal material, the polarity of the cell voltage is reversed on alternate video frames. Unfortunately it is very difficult to get exactly the same voltage on the cell in both polarities, so the pixel-cell brightness will tend to flicker to some extent at half the frame-rate. If the polarity of the whole screen were inverted at once then the flicker would be highly objectionable. Instead, it is usual to have the polarity of nearby pixels in anti-phase, thus cancelling out the flicker over areas of any significant size. In this way the flicker can be made imperceptible for most "natural" images.
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For test patterns, go see Lagom LCD Inversion (Pixel Walk), and move the browser window while seeing the patterns. You will see very strange flickering artifacts. The artifacts are there without LightBoost, but apparently, LightBoost seems to amplify (make more visible) the existence of LCD inversion artifacts. In the future, future LCD monitors utilizing strobe backlights, could theoretically use a random LCD inversion (dithered) pattern, in order to make this less noticeable with strobe backlights. For the short term (current monitor technology), one solution may be to simply turn off LightBoost whenever you're at the Windows desktop, while turning it on during video games. There is a need for a simple utility to allow easy enable/disable of LightBoost, via a single button click or hotkey.

Thanks
Mark Rejhon
BlurBusters.com Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur On LCD's
 
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elvn said:
I was fairly happy getting 75 - 110 fps on some games on my non lightboost2 120hz TN but that won't cut it for the 1ms 94% crt-like clarity I'd be shooting for if I went all out on lightboost2 blur reduction someday.
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You can settle for the 'perfect-looking' motion clarity in Source engine games, and still get playable Crysis etc. Doing 75-110fps in Crysis on a LightBoost monitor is not the end of the world; it's still quite playable (just not zeroed-out motion blur) and you can always upgrade your GPU later. Also, LightBoost works at 100Hz, so you can choose 100fps@100Hz, too.
 
I have an XL2420T and I'm not seeing these "night and day" differences in-game. Granted, the XL2420T is pretty close to a CRT in motion blur out of the box, but I'm not sure if I have enabled this right.

Does anyone have a proper XL2420T inf file they've made that isn't this ASUS one I had to install to get this working?
 
I have now written new BENQ XL2411T-specific instructions, which I have now posted on a different forum, but have now created a guide at:
Blur Busters Blog: The LightBoost HOWTO

Instructsions are:
- Windows 7/8 compatible
- All known LightBoost monitors work (ASUS VG278H, VG278HE and BENQ XL2411T, XL2420T)
- Official vendor supported solution available (if you have a shutter glasses emitter, even if you don't use it)
- Unofficial hack available (if you don't own shutter glasses emitter)
 
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Swolern said:
Anyone have any problems getting 2d Lightboost working on Windows 8?
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I'm using Windows 8, and it works. I find that using the newer 310.90 drivers work so much better, there are no longer problems at the Login screen, which now works properly even with LightBoost enabled. The only thing -- PixPerAn still doesn't work properly under Windows 8 using these drivers (at least on my system).
 
meb said:
I have an XL2420T and I'm not seeing these "night and day" differences in-game. Granted, the XL2420T is pretty close to a CRT in motion blur out of the box, but I'm not sure if I have enabled this right.
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From my research, the BENQ may already be running LightBoost-style strobe backlight behavior even out-of-the-box, when using certain AMA settings. Enabling LightBoost reduces motion blur even further, just not the night-and-day when comparing a non-strobed 120Hz monitor. Vega reported to me, when beta testing my motion test software, that he was already getting really low motion blur before enabling LightBoost.

Can you disable both LightBoost and AMA, and see what happens to your motion blur?
___

On the subject of BENQ monitors:

This is the numbers I currently have from my motion tests, in terms of Motion Picture Response Time -- a human-eye-relative measured equivalent to pixel response, that also takes into account of strobing; so this is a benchmark compatible with Plasma and CRT. That means, when strobing is used to bypass the sample-and-hold nature of a display, MPRT can go well below pixel persistence measurements. From the research I've done so far, I hereby deem BENQ's "1ms" claim as an unexpectedly/surprisingly honest claim, because this is what the human eye actually sees: The 1ms backlight strobes. (Even if pixel persistence was 5ms, as long as that's kept in total darkness) Vega was beta-testing my motion test benchmark, which has the ability to measure MPRT fairly accurately (based on comparisions to photodiode oscilloscope tests).

MPRT 16.7ms -- measured by Mark -- iPad 4th Generation
MPRT 16.7ms -- measured by Mark -- Dell 2007FP LCD
MPRT 14.1ms -- measured by Mark -- Samsung 245BW (old 2ms TN with a 180Hz PWM CCFL backlight)
MPRT 5.0ms -- measured by Mark -- Panasonic VT50 Plasma 2500Hz FFD (includes red-green phosphor ghosting)
MPRT 7.7ms -- measured by Mark -- ASUS VG278H without LightBoost
MPRT 2.0ms -- measured by Mark -- ASUS VG278H *with* LightBoost
MPRT 2.2ms -- measured by Vega -- BENQ XL2411T with AMA enabled (but without LightBoost)
MPRT 1.0ms -- measured by Vega -- BENQ XL2411T *with* LightBoost

Known error margin is +/- 10 to 40% for my own (Mark's) measurements.
Most of the error margin is due to asymmetric differences in pixel persistence speed from white-to-black versus black-to-white.

Which is quite interesting -- shows that LightBoost outperforms plasma displays in terms of motion blur.
But that the BENQ's apparently outperform the ASUS in terms of even less motion blur than even an ASUS LightBoost.
And it seems to show, that a BENQ non-LightBoost almost performs as well as ASUS LightBoost!
(Which would only be possible if BENQ uses an "AMA" strobe backlight mode).

It's also the confirmation that BENQ has 94% less motion blur (true MPRT 1ms versus MPRT 16.7ms) than a typical 60Hz LCD.

As you can see, 60Hz LCD's with non-flickering backlights (non-PWM), will almost always have a MPRT almost exactly equalling 16.7ms, even if pixel persistence is 2ms. This is because of the sample-and-hold effect. The only way to get MPRT milliseconds approaching (or even becoming less than) the pixel persistence milliseconds, is via strobing the backlight. PWM backlights will lower the MPRT's slightly (e.g. ~14ms for a 180Hz PWM backlight, since in this specific case, motion blur is dictated by the leading edge of the first PWM flicker towards the trailing edge of the last PWM flicker: Essentially, the whole series of PWM strobes behaves as one longer strobe, from a motion blur perspective)

My BENQ XL2411T should finally arrive in the next few days (There was a shipping delay, now resolved), so I can confirm Vega's reported measurements.
True honest MPRT's (at the human eye level) of 1.0ms is very impressive for an LCD, and certainly throws LCD into the same ballpark of CRT from the perspective of motion blur.

As a point of reference, MPRT of 2.0ms is akin to a Motion Equivalence Ratio of 500 (from 1000/2) = looking like 500fps@500Hz non-strobed display.
And MPRT of 1.0ms is akin to a Motion Equivalence Ratio of 1000 (from 1000/1) = looking like 1000fps@1000Hz non-strobed display.
 
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@Mark:

Could you add some things to your guide?

Something like this maybe:

-How to deactivate LB mode

-Known issues: (for example doesn't work with 144hz, just 120hz)
 
denpxc said:
I have the BenQ XL2411T, when lightboost is ON I have weird "scanlines" all over the screen, more noticeable on upper right when not moving, and everywhere when moving

It's a bit annoying :
http://dhainne.free.fr/weirdscanlines.jpg

Am I the only one ? is it doing this on other models ?
Click to expand...

They are occurring on the Benq2420T as well only in 3d mode [Lightboost on or off]. The scan lines are only prominent in the upper left hand corner of the screen and really no where else. It does not do it at all out of 3d mode. My thoughts is that this is a flaw with the DVI-D Dual Link cords sent with the monitors or the monitors themselves. BUT WHY ONLY IN THE UPPER RIGHT HAND CORNER?!?!!!

I tried many solutions including plugging the monitor in with different power cables and directly into the outlet just in case it was a power issue but no dice. I have to purchase a new DVI-D Dual link cable 6ft to test that as well. It is definitely not a driver issue as a print screen shows no issue when moving the upper right hand corners image to the lower portion of the screen. Its hard to notice in game , BUT I KNOW ITS THERE, so I NEED TO KNOW WHY.

What should be checked on is, BenQ people definitely observe this in both models, but do Asus monitor people observe it too?

Also do you have to go into the Nvidia Control Panel to turn on the 3d/Lightboost every time you restart the machine? I always end up having to.

PS: I am currently using the .inf file to trick my PC into thinking im using the ASUS monitor and the appropriate registry edit posted together earlier in the thread.
 
Mark: "And it seems to show, that a BENQ non-LightBoost almost performs as well as ASUS LightBoost!"

I don't think that is possible. Without a true A/B comparison right next to each other which you are the only that I know who will have both to test we won't know for sure. In some of these tests the speed settings are so fast the margin for error is quite large IMO.
 
Vega said:
Mark: "And it seems to show, that a BENQ non-LightBoost almost performs as well as ASUS LightBoost!"

I don't think that is possible. Without a true A/B comparison right next to each other which you are the only that I know who will have both to test we won't know for sure. In some of these tests the speed settings are so fast the margin for error is quite large IMO.
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Maybe.
But history, academic papers, and personal experience has shown that strobe lengths accurately predict the amount of motion blur.

Test pattern MPRT measurements at the 8ms and 16ms levels are historically generally reliably accurate (+/-10%). Even adding a generous +40% error margin for other errors, including the known asymmetry in pixel transitions. Your measurements showed the BENQ being almost 4x faster than the ASUS for the non-LightBoost modes. That's very clearly well beyond the error margin -- I don't think you're "4x off target". Besides, measurements at the 8ms MPRT level are quite easy to make, and you went well far beyond that.

One can bring an oscilloscope+photodiode to a computer monitor, blindfolded, grab a few second of reading, and fairly accurately predict the MPRT of that said display if it's strobing just once a refresh, and the strobe lengths can be determined. (unless it's doing some strange trickery like motion interpolation, which is not typically done on computer monitors). Basically, predict the approximate thickness of a motion blur blur trail, without looking at images.

Also, LightBoost is not the only strobe backlight technology that exists.
BENQ has been well known to do strobed backlights before LightBoost existed: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/advancedcontent.htm#ama
That said, these early (pre-3D-era) strobe backlights did not reduce motion blur very much, since the genuine zero motion blur effect really happens when you're able to strobe on practically fully refreshed frames, and strobe for shorter time periods.
 
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iiiziplockiiip said:
They are occurring on the Benq2420T as well only in 3d mode [Lightboost on or off]. The scan lines are only prominent in the upper left hand corner of the screen and really no where else. It does not do it at all out of 3d mode. My thoughts is that this is a flaw with the DVI-D Dual Link cords sent with the monitors or the monitors themselves. BUT WHY ONLY IN THE UPPER RIGHT HAND CORNER?!?!!!
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I believe this can happen with LCD inversion -- sometimes LCD inversion artifacts are asymmetric across the screen on a time-basis but are not noticeable until the backlight is strobed. I will do some research when I receive this monitor.

What should be checked on is, BenQ people definitely observe this in both models, but do Asus monitor people observe it too?
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No, but I see some strange non-linear inversion artifacts in certain test patterns, that's stronger at the top or middle part of the screen, than the bottom part of the screen. Especially in a flicker test pattern (60Hz flicker at 120Hz)
 
Iiyama G2773HS is supposedly 1ms but I can't find any info about it supporting Lightboost. Does anyone have this monitor?
 
Hopefully BenQ turns this into a gaming feature on their LCD's and just enable strobing for all refresh rates regardless of videocard driver/model/3d/2d.
 
shiznit said:
Iiyama G2773HS is supposedly 1ms but I can't find any info about it supporting Lightboost. Does anyone have this monitor?
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The only way for a monitor to do a really good, honest claim of 1ms is to use a strobe backlight...
...So it might be a non-LightBoost-branded strobe backlight. Although LightBoost is only the best strobe backlight that has ever come out, nothing prevents a manufacturer from inventing a better mousetrap from active backlight control (scanning backlights, strobe backlights, etc).

The only way to really tell, is to do some motion tests on it & also measure flicker using an oscilloscope.
 
Well like Mark wrote earlier, there's a good chance that they already do this to some degree. I'm looking forward to your results with the BenQ, Mark, thanks for your insight.
 
Hey Mark, any idea if 3-4ms strobes would be enough to avoid obvious flickering at 60hz/70hz? I think my ideal would be to run games at 70hz with vsync on to balance graphics/input lag/motion clarity.
 
meb said:
Well like Mark wrote earlier, there's a good chance that they already do this to some degree. I'm looking forward to your results with the BenQ, Mark, thanks for your insight.
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With my oscilloscope and my high speed camera, I shall find out. :)

And the motion tests I am developing, shows clear superiority of strobe backlights for motion blur reduction -- LightBoost or otherwise. Though old strobe backlights (like in old 2006 BENQ's) did not do a very good job compared to what LightBoost in ASUS is doing today.

Mark Rejhon
 
Oofloom said:
Hey Mark, any idea if 3-4ms strobes would be enough to avoid obvious flickering at 60hz/70hz? I think my ideal would be to run games at 70hz with vsync on to balance graphics/input lag/motion clarity.
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Unfortunately, the flicker is more dependant on refresh rate than on strobe length. Shorter strobes are more noticeable, but at low strobe rates, 60Hz flickers like a 60Hz CRT.

Consider that strobe lengths are linearly proportional to the thickness of blurred edges along motion vectors. (Simplification: double strobe lengths means motion blur becomes twice as big -- just like for photograhy; double the shutter time means double motion blur for a moving camera)

In year 2006, BENQ had a strobe/scanning backlight ("AMA-Z" with the Z suffix, I believe) which used approximately 10ms strobes at 60Hz, and still flickered annoyingly, from past reports. Didn't reduce motion blur all that much. Today, strobe lengths are short enough to reduce motion blur by amazing numbers, e.g. 94% improvement with 1ms strobes relative to a 16.7ms refresh (1/60sec = 16.7ms).
Today's 1ms strobes in LightBoost at 120Hz flickers far less than those 10ms strobes at 60Hz in very old "black frame insertion" BENQ monitors, yet the 1ms strobes provide an order of magnitude less motion blur (and that's above and beyond the LCD panel improvements, between a 2006-era panel and a 2012-era panel).

Assuming the LCD itself was not the limiting factor, 4ms strobes is 4 times worse than 1ms strobes, regardless of refresh rate.

The sweet spot for GPU requirements versus flicker annoyance, just like 85Hz CRT, is 1ms strobes at 85Hz. It will flicker less than 4ms strobes at 60Hz, and have only one-fourth motion blur, thanks to strobes being one-fourth as long, yet the black period is almost the same..... For 60Hz, it is a flicker ratio of 4ms:12.7ms (16.7ms refreshes), and for 85Hz, it is a flicker ratio of 1ms:10.7ms (11.7ms refreshes). The "slightly" higher refresh rate (good for blur) massively outweighs "much bigger" strobe lengths (worsens blur) from the perspective of reducing flicker.
 
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I say GODDAMN Mark's explanations are good. It's like listening to a really good professor. I feel like I should be paying for this. Mad props, Mark.
 
Mark, I just sold my 2233rz. Which one of the current Lightboost monitors would you recommend?
 
I sold my u2711 to in order to upgrade to my u2713h and had to use my 4 year old BenQ G2400WD in the meantime... and my god the input lag/response is far better on that screen(naturally) that I had forgot what it was like. Gonna get off my high horse for display quality and pixel count and give it all back for performance. So, where are you guys ordering the BENQ XL2411T?
 
I have a question, how would lightboost work @ 60hz?

sorry if it was answered somewhere already, this thread is huge :p
 
Ok so My I've been using my BenQ and the hacked lightboost mode for a week or so now and all I've got to say is .. fucking incredible.

Its honest to god the closest thing I've seen to CRT motion. Its actually so good that I took out my old 17 inch Viewsonic and comparing them side by side its near impossible to tell the difference in terms of motion.

But of course these gaming monitors are not meant to have good PQ. They are meant for gamers who want low latency gaming and while the BenQ does an excellent job even at color reproduction all things considered , do not buy any of these monitors and expect it to become the Jack of all trades.

If you can maintain a 100 fps rate , you can easily achieve CRT gaming with an LED-LCD and its truly amazing to see one of the worst things we all gave up switching to LCD's nearly eliminated entirely. I really hope someone gets this tech working with an IPS monitor sometime soon , that would be amazing. The only downside is once your FPS drops below 100 , its pretty easy to see a tad motion blurring again and the overall effect is sidelined.

Even with my dual GTX 670's ( I actually bought another to help maintain that 100+ fps goal) I can't drive every game to that FPS requirement unless I make those more demanding games butt fucking ugly. That's not to say a lot of games do not run very easily at that frame rate almost 85-90 percent of the time and adding more GPU's probably won't matter because of the diminishing returns I'll get a 1920x1080. It would just be a waste to throw another GTX 670 on when triple SLI has a history of janky performance and lots of bugs.

Overall , while I find this effect to be utterly amazing and brilliant to look at.. I can't recommend anyone go big for this right now. If there was a way to get lighboost working at 85hz I would recommend this in a heart beat but having to run all my games at a rock solid 100+ fps is just a steep , steep requirement and with such a limited resolution my GPU's don't even get fully utilized. Until someone can get 85hz working I would hold off and go for those overclocked 120hz IPS monitors from Overload or from Overclockers.

I'm keeping my BenQ though just because while current games might be too demanding , there are plenty of older games that will run fantastically with this.

The one thing to take away with this though is that its possible with ANY panel type , now that we have LED's that can flash on and off so effectively and with long life spans , we are only at the baby stages of this great realization.
 
Godmachine said:
all I've got to say is .. fucking incredible.
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Glad to hear another report of awesomeness. However a few things with your further thoughts struck me right off the bat.
Godmachine said:
But of course these gaming monitors are not meant to have good PQ. They are meant for gamers who want low latency gaming and while the BenQ does an excellent job even at color reproduction all things considered , do not buy any of these monitors and expect it to become the Jack of all trades.
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First of all, PQ includes movement when in regard to gaming, so opting for a higher resolution and more accurate+uniform color trades off PQ *during* movement to a sloshy mess that obliterates all objects detail, texture detail, shaders, depth via bump mapping, text/namesplates, basically the entire scene. Personally I think jack of all trades isn't the way to go anyway, and prefer to dedicate at least one monitor to desktop and one to gaming. I've been doing it for years with different types.
Godmachine said:
I really hope someone gets this tech working with an IPS monitor sometime soon , that would be amazing.
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I really doubt that. For one thing, ips response time is much too high to reach crt clarity. It would have to speed up drastically to 2ms ~ 1ms (it's typically at 10ms+ now or thereabouts, regardless much too high by comparison). Also, no ips monitors have the 2ms (let alone 1ms that achieves 94% crt clarity) lightboost2 enabled backlight technology or any equivalent tech.
Godmachine said:
If you can maintain a 100 fps rate , you can easily achieve CRT gaming with an LED-LCD and its truly amazing to see one of the worst things we all gave up switching to LCD's nearly eliminated entirely. The only downside is once your FPS drops below 100 , its pretty easy to see a tad motion blurring again and the overall effect is sidelined.
<snip>
having to run all my games at a rock solid 100+ fps is just a steep , steep requirement and with such a limited resolution my GPU's don't even get fully utilized. Until someone can get 85hz working I would hold off and go for those overclocked 120hz IPS monitors from Overload or from Overclockers.
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In order to get the most out of a even a non-lightboost2 120hz monitor's motion tracking smoothness (not to be confused with blur reduction) and more recent action data shown per hz, you need to keep a very high fps. Best case higher than 120fps average vs scene complexity dips. Suggesting a 120hz or 120hz+ ips with a more demanding resolution of 2560 x 1440 as a way to achieve less demand on your gpu doesn't sound completely right to me. Yes you can get some motion tracking and blur reduction at over 70 fps (like 75 - 90 fps) though, but the resolution jump is also much more demanding so your argument sounds flawed .. - that maintaining 100fps+ on a 1ms lightboost2 monitor for crt clarity should be given up on and that you should instead opt for a 120hz ips with a much more demanding 2560x1440 resolution and worse than half the blur of a 60hz tn lcd, and run it sub 120fps for even less than its maximum motion tracking and blur improvement.
.
elvn said:
You really have to be more specific now. Echoing back to the 120hz TNs with "half-as-much-blur" (yet still a mess) FoV movement vs. a 60hz 10ms+ response time 2560 x 1440 ips with double that blur (or worse than compared to low response time 60hz TN) is not the current best available tech anymore. There are 120hz(and 120hz+) "overclocked"ips, which can show the better motion tracking at high fps and "slightly worse than half the blur" of a 60 hz lcd. There are also 1ms response time and 1ms lightboost2 backlught strobing TNs now, which have full motion clarity with if anything, a single solid afterimage "shadow ".
So, generically saying 120hz TN vs ips would seem to make a lot of people assume the "original" comparison, ignoring the essentially zero-blur 1ms ~ 94% "crt clarity" option. now available. With crt motion clarity available, the blurry TNs vs worse blurring ips argument is moot imo. Both types have 120hz models available now for better motion tracking and near half as much blur as 60hz, which is the best you can get on ips currently (for gaming) . TN's new best has 1ms LB2 models with essentially zero blur, just an afterimage shadow. IPS still provides higher ppi and resolution, and doesn't suffer TN shift/"shadow", but is stuck, at best(120hz/120hz+ oc models), at a "worse than half the blur" of a 60hz lcds until, if ever, ips response times are reduced drastically combined with a 1ms backlight strobe or equivalent.
I love ips and high rez for desktop usage, but for a dedicated gaming monitor alongside I would choose motion clarity.
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MarkR has hypothesized that if someday someone developed a new scanning backlight or similar lightboost2 1ms strobe equivalent for ips, ips blur could be reduced to maybe 50 - 75%, but still nothing like full crt clarity. The response times would have to improved drastically to 1ms on ips combined with such a backlight in order to eliminate blur. So, if both those things were to happen, if ever, it sounds like it would be quite a wait (years?). Even if you had both criteria covered, you'd be back to maintaining 100fps (running over 100fps vs scene complexity dips) at 100hz , or 120fps+ at 120hz but now on a much more demanding 2560x1440 resolution (or higher QFHD/4k/retina type very high rez displays who knows). Perhaps stronger gpus would be out if it were years down the road, but then there are always more demanding games in any generation to hold the dev's somewhat arbitrary max/ultra graphics slider "carrot" in front of your nose. ;)
 
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