$7k Damages for Sharing a “For Dummies” Book

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I think it is safe to say that the book these idiots shared on BitTorrent wasn't "Default Judgments For Dummies." Wait...maybe it was. ;)

A man and woman from New York have been ordered to pay $7,000 in damages for downloading a “For Dummies” eBook using BitTorrent. New York Federal Judge Laura Taylor Swain ordered a default judgment against the pair for infringing the copyright and trademark of major book publisher John Wiley and Sons. The recent verdicts pale in comparison to the hundreds of thousands of dollars movie pirates had to pay last year.
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The recent verdicts pale in comparison to the hundreds of thousands of dollars movie pirates had to pay last year.
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So naturally that makes it totally reasonable. :rolleyes:

You will be programmed to accept the tyranny of the courts and the entertainment industry.
 
These courts need to start justifying why the fines are stiffer for downloading than stealing the physical goods. Makes zero sense.
 
rofl can you imagine what the fine would be for someone getting caught downloading one of those e-book mega files that has basically every e-book ever made? It would be hundreds of millions of dollars.
 
Probably just "the man" testing the waters of "court trolling".
 
Wow, yeah, should have just stole the book in person.
 
There's a couple reasons why posting to an existing thread can be a problem. The first, if it's new one, is that it's sometimes hard for us to mentally keep them separate--we forget which one we're posting to.
 
They should at least provide the lube if they are going to bend someone over like that.
 
Default Judgement? Did the defendants not even show up?

Can anyone confirm if that's the case? Default judgement generally means the one party couldn't even be bothered to come to court.
 
I wish media would understand things...

A man and woman from New York have been ordered to pay $7,000 in damages for downloading a “For Dummies” eBook using BitTorrent.
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By "downloading" via BitTorrent, you're also "making available", given BitTorrent generally also starts allowing the peering of chunks that you download as soon as they are available. Hence the nature of Peer-to-Peer.
 
Koolthulu said:
$7K for stealing a book? Who are the real criminals here?
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While $7K may or may not be a bit high, the penalty has to be higher than the actual cost of the book or else it would make perfect economic sense to pirate - steal everything, only pay when you get caught.
 
if it was a movie it would be several million. Lucky the ebook publishers are not an extension of the government :p
 
SunnyD said:
By "downloading" via BitTorrent, you're also "making available", given BitTorrent generally also starts allowing the peering of chunks that you download as soon as they are available. Hence the nature of Peer-to-Peer.
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Not necessarily, there's ways to turn off the uploading, but you're right, they were slapped in the ass for sharing the ebook.

I thought these John Doe type mass lawsuits were ruled to be illegal or something though?

According to the complaint Wiley is worried that pirated copies may damage the “For Dummies” brand as they may be of inferior quality or bundled with viruses.
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This one takes the cake, this is like saying a person who stole some duct tape will also be charged with attempted rape because they could potentially use the duct tape to gag and bound someone while raping them
 
Arainach said:
While $7K may or may not be a bit high, the penalty has to be higher than the actual cost of the book or else it would make perfect economic sense to pirate - steal everything, only pay when you get caught.
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ya but if some one is speeding, going 80 in a 65 zone they don't give you a ticket for 80 grand. since its total unreasonabl. i think the same should apply with piracy, sure they should pay a fine that is more than the market value of the digital item. but that book probably cost 7 bucks and charging them 7k for it should be considered cruel and unusual punishment ((ie. unconstitutional (i think))
 
shifty68 said:
ya but if some one is speeding, going 80 in a 65 zone they don't give you a ticket for 80 grand. since its total unreasonabl. i think the same should apply with piracy, sure they should pay a fine that is more than the market value of the digital item. but that book probably cost 7 bucks and charging them 7k for it should be considered cruel and unusual punishment ((ie. unconstitutional (i think))
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cruel and unusual only applies to criminal penalties and I think copyright and trademark violations (how these people were charged) are civil penalties ... nobody has had one of the million dollar settlements overturned as cruel and unusual (even though those are much more egregious) ;)
 
sfsuphysics said:
This one takes the cake, this is like saying a person who stole some duct tape will also be charged with attempted rape because they could potentially use the duct tape to gag and bound someone while raping them
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Hey, in a culture that believes that video games cause people to go on mass murdering sprees of innocent children, makes sense.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Not necessarily, there's ways to turn off the uploading, but you're right, they were slapped in the ass for sharing the ebook.
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But that's exactly my point. You don't get slapped with a suit for infringement for downloading only. You get that for making available. No peering, no infringing (only theft so to speak - IANAL).
 
I like the term "sharing". Did the defendant actually buy the book and share it with others? lol, of course not.

The penalties for copyright infringement are out of whack, but what those Dummies did has penalties if caught, which they were.
 
Arainach said:
While $7K may or may not be a bit high, the penalty has to be higher than the actual cost of the book or else it would make perfect economic sense to pirate - steal everything, only pay when you get caught.
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The problem that most people have with this is that these are not criminal cases. This is all civil. If I have an injury from tripping on a crack in the sidewalk and try to sue everyone under the sun, I really have to show some sort of lost money due to missing work, due to any sort of "pain and suffering", something that could justify the result of any lawsuit/settlement. While that value could be quite large, in no way is any part of that due to the fact they want to send a message to make sure that crack in the sidewalk never happens again, which is exactly what this is about.
 
pxc said:
I like the term "sharing". Did the defendant actually buy the book and share it with others? lol, of course not.

The penalties for copyright infringement are out of whack, but what those Dummies did has penalties if caught, which they were.
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Maybe not on purpose, but the use of BitTorrent pretty much implies otherwise.
 
So they downloaded the book? I'm going to write a book "How to Download eBooks without getting caught ... For everyone". It's like going after the drug user and not the dealer.
 
Or maybe you all are greatly underestimating the value of "Herb Gardening For Dummies." I can't say I've read it, so perhaps it's worth 7,000$? /sarcasm
 
Nevermind, found a physical copy for 99 cents used. Fine should be extremely harsh to teach them a lesson. 100x cost of street value, so about 100$ fine.

This would be the equivilant of a 150,000 dollar fine for stealing a mid 90's Buick POS.
 
Spidey329 said:
So they downloaded the book? I'm going to write a book "How to Download eBooks without getting caught ... For everyone". It's like going after the drug user and not the dealer.
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Nailing 100 people downloading the book is way more profitable than getting 1 guy uploading the book for the first time. That's the only thing I can think of when these companies go for the end downloader instead of the one that is uploading the damn thing.
 
Am I the only one surprised that ebook sharers are getting busted now? I figured they were still only targeting people with poor taste in music.
 
Arainach said:
While $7K may or may not be a bit high, the penalty has to be higher than the actual cost of the book or else it would make perfect economic sense to pirate - steal everything, only pay when you get caught.
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That logic can also apply to thieves. Steal what you can, pay for only what you get caught with.

Or do you think the cops will search your house for stealing a jacket at Macy's (and even if they did, there's a lot of circumstances where they simply couldn't prove that one item is stolen and another isn't once it's in your possession for a short length of time)?
 
BitTorrent for Dummies
http://www.amazon.com/BitTorrent-Dummies-Susannah-Gardner/dp/076459981X/

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As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Neurofreeze said:
That logic can also apply to thieves. Steal what you can, pay for only what you get caught with.

Or do you think the cops will search your house for stealing a jacket at Macy's (and even if they did, there's a lot of circumstances where they simply couldn't prove that one item is stolen and another isn't once it's in your possession for a short length of time)?
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Theft also has jail time as part of its cost. That's the difference between criminal and civil offenses.
 
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