NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

I'd buy it instead of the SG05. But that is just me. It offers much more then the SG05 and it fits in between a SG05/6 and the SG08 in size which is exactly what I been looking for.
 
I'm in for one of these as well... Been following the project from a distance since it first came into being... I see it as a direct upgrade to the SG05 at this point, even if it's slightly larger.

I just had a question for the design crew actually: Will it be able to accommodate a double slot graphics card, single slot other card, and a pair of 3.5" HDDs? I saw from the specs that it could, and just wanted to make sure there wasn't a configuration issue... Like if I use the 3rd expansion slot, I can't use a pair of 3.5" drives or something.

Thanks, and looking forward to hearing that you've solved all of your manufacturing issues!
 
crABtoad said:
I just had a question for the design crew actually: Will it be able to accommodate a double slot graphics card, single slot other card, and a pair of 3.5" HDDs? I saw from the specs that it could, and just wanted to make sure there wasn't a configuration issue... Like if I use the 3rd expansion slot, I can't use a pair of 3.5" drives or something.
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I think the answer to this question has been partly answered. This is for ITX motherboards, so you only have 1 slot for the GPU (which can take up 2 slots in space) - it even has an additional slot for either more space, or stuff like a 3.5" HD. Anything more than that is outside the scope of what the case was designed to be, and would be up the end user to modify and custom fit.

I for one like it how it was designed. Basically a powerful ITX system, with 1 powerful GPU, in a small package, with great looks :)
 
Actually - the answer is yes. Provided you've got a Mini-DTX board with the extra slot, you'll be able to use all three slots (single slot card + double slot card), plus two 3.5" drives in the HDD cage (adjacent to the PSU).
 
Necere said:
Actually - the answer is yes. Provided you've got a Mini-DTX board with the extra slot, you'll be able to use all three slots (single slot card + double slot card), plus two 3.5" drives in the HDD cage (adjacent to the PSU).
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Awesome. Thanks Necere... You guys have any luck with the holes on the top being a problem?
 
I'm wondering if anyone who has either the SG07, SG08, or SG09 can do me a favor and pull out the internal AC cable and give me the dimensions for A and B on the plug (in millimeters, preferably):



I've asked for a spec sheet from SilverStone, but they haven't responded yet and we're getting a bit antsy :p

Edit: nevermind, I got it.
 
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DG25 said:
Could you share, please? I'm curious if it's the same as the right angle connector in my lian li case.
Thanks!
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xvEPd.png
 
I been told that "steel panels resonate sound less than aluminum panels, and people that want silent PCs HATE aluminum enclosures for this reason and refuses to buy them".

Anyone actually prefer steel over aluminum?

Then again, given the small size of this case, I'm not sure the difference is material. Maybe someone who knows more can share.
 
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Depends a lot on the thickness and the type of material. Harder metals will pass higher frequency sounds and thinner materials will pass more than thicker (that is for actual panel transmission). There is also the vibration between panels which has a lot to do with how tight everything is clearanced. For multi-panel vibration noise aluminum tends to pass more sound / higher freq because it is lighter and can rattle more easily if things aren't locked down tight.

For this case (which looks like it is locked down) I don't think it will make much difference for this case.
 
I love the case design, but the way it is constructed, it's not going to be a great case for those wanting silence, so I wouldn't worry about it. The real problems that I see are the position of the vents, the sfx PSU, and possibly the fact that there is not enough space for an aftermarket GPU cooler. The case design as is can be made quiet, but those neurotic enough to want steel will want a very different enclosure. It's a good design and it should have a broad appeal, it can't be catered to all of the extremes and stay compact as well.

The above may sound like a critique, but it's not. Cases/Builds go in different directions, this case is of a very good design, for a lot of things. it's just not a design to optimize the acoustics.
 
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Aluminum front is a must, but I'm fine with a steel chassis if the price is substantially lower. Unfortunately, I've never had an all aluminum case, so I can't judge the pros & cons adequately.
 
wahaha360 said:
I been told that "steel panels resonate sound less than aluminum panels, and people that want silent PCs HATE aluminum enclosures for this reason and refuses to buy them".

Anyone actually prefer steel over aluminum?

Then again, given the small size of this case, I'm not sure the difference is material. Maybe someone who knows more can share.
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Steel internal structure with aluminum external finish. Zero compromise.
 
I dying to build a new itx system but I want this case. Any word on pricing, how many will need to be ordered or estimated time to build?
 
Dustins said:
I dying to build a new itx system but I want this case. Any word on pricing, how many will need to be ordered or estimated time to build?
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Minimum order will most likely be 300 units. Too early to pin down pricing; besides the cost of manufacturing there are costs associated with logistics as well.

The crowdfunding process will take some time, particularly since we're planning to do two stages (engineering/protoype, bulk order). How long before people can expect to have cases delivered? It's hard to say, but several months is a good bet, at the earliest.
 
I'd be very surprised it would be under $100 per unit. I could be wrong but I don't think this is going to be cheap. Just a feeling I have. Hopefully I'm wrong. :)
 
Machupo said:
Depends a lot on the thickness and the type of material. Harder metals will pass higher frequency sounds and thinner materials will pass more than thicker (that is for actual panel transmission). There is also the vibration between panels which has a lot to do with how tight everything is clearanced. For multi-panel vibration noise aluminum tends to pass more sound / higher freq because it is lighter and can rattle more easily if things aren't locked down tight.

For this case (which looks like it is locked down) I don't think it will make much difference for this case.
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It turns out that SECC has about 2.9x the density of Aluminum, weighing 2.9x more than Aluminum panels of the same thickness, which helps with noise reduction.

However, since 0.5-0.6mm is the typical thickness of SECC case material, compare to the current design with 1.5mm aluminum, which is about 2.5-2.7x the thickness of the SECC, the weight is about the same, which implies that the noise reduction benefits from using standard SECC Steel panels over Aluminum for this case will be insignificant.
 
wahaha360 said:
It turns out that SECC has about 2.9x the density of Aluminum, weighing 2.9x more than Aluminum panels of the same thickness, which helps with noise reduction.

However, since 0.5-0.6mm is the typical thickness of SECC case material, compare to the current design with 1.5mm aluminum, which is about 2.5-2.7x the thickness of the SECC, the weight is about the same, which implies that the noise reduction benefits from using standard SECC Steel panels over Aluminum for this case will be insignificant.
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We actually use 0.8mm steel a lot so that is another option you guys can consider. Although for SFF cases at 0.6mm is usually enough, we have built our smaller HTPC cases such as ML03 and GD05 out of 0.8mm steel.
 
A couple days back Diverge asked if it was possible to mod in an ATX PSU, which got me thinking - I could probably design an ATX bracket you could swap for the SFX bracket with only minor changes. So that's what I did.

Using a low profile plug like the SG07/08/09 use it's possible to fit a 140mm long ATX PSU in. Non-modular only, unfortunately, but you can't have everything.

Pics:


SFX



ATX



SFX vs. ATX


You lose the 2.5" mount on the inside front, but that's alright, you can still mount one on the opposite side, behind the front panel:




Other tradeoffs to using ATX are the loss of the 3.5" cage and dual rad. But I'm betting there's at least a few people that don't need either of those, and it's easy enough to incorporate the flexibility into the design to give people the choice.
 
Wow, that is really neat. The amount of options this case gives you out of the box is not for the faint of heart!
 
can you post a side view with the atx psu and the full length video card? if you are limited to non modular, then i wonder how much room there would be to stuff all those cables.
 
illli said:
can you post a side view with the atx psu and the full length video card? if you are limited to non modular, then i wonder how much room there would be to stuff all those cables.
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The cables on most non-modular power supplies exit at one end, which allows them to pass by the side of the GPU:


(pretend the fat tube is the cable bundle; it's 24mm in diameter in the model)


Putting the case floor to use, we can loop excess cables around the perimeter (note the cutouts in the case floor for cables ties):




Long GPUs should fit with no issues:




Note I'm using a 125mm Nexus PSU in the model, but the 140mm power supplies I've checked (e.g. several SilverStone models, FSP Aurum) have the same cable exit so should work just as well. A 140mm PSU leaves ~10mm between it and the top of the GPU.

Naturally, if you choose to use the case floor for cable management it will prevent the use of a card in the third slot, but a 3.5" drive or 120mm fans should still be possible.
 
I signed up just to say that I would buy this. Is there a kickstarter yet?
 
Siba said:
I signed up just to say that I would buy this. Is there a kickstarter yet?
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We will be working on the funding and logistics starting Jan 1, 2013.

The process (~ 2 month):
1. Raise prototype funding via Indiegogo for one prototype to be made and tested by a reputable review website.
2. Make revisions to prototype design if necessary based on the review.
3. Launch Kickstarter campaign for end customers.
 
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wahaha360 said:
We are working on that now.
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Hurry up before I waste all my money :p

A few days I ordered a cooler master elite 120 itx case to hack up and play around with, and today I ordered a $140 set of those openbeam things someone posted about.
 
jamaicanpi said:
The real problems that I see are the position of the vents, the sfx PSU, and possibly the fact that there is not enough space for an aftermarket GPU cooler.
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For GPU coolers, do you have something specific in mind?

We are in the process of analyzing the common full cover GPU waterblocks...so far things fit.
 
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wahaha360 said:
Can you clarify what you mean by "the position of the vents, the sfx PSU"?

For GPU coolers, do you have something specific in mind?
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Power supply
Well prior to Necere's changes, the case only took SFX power supplies and those are noisier than full ATX power supplies. Silverstone's gold 450W sfx unit has a fan curve that keeps the fan operating in an audible range at idle. Here is the fan curve measured at TechPowerUp.

Vents
The following is from Silent PC Review: Case Basics and Recommendations
2. Indirect Escape Paths for Noise...
[an open hole in the front of the case] allows the noise of the fan to go directly out of the case, to the users' ears. The requirement of indirect noise escape paths means that the front bezel should act as a baffle that forces sound to travel around angles so that it loses intensity before exiting the case, while at the same time, allowing the air to flow unrestricted. A similar arrangement for back panel vents would also be useful, but no known case has this feature. The noise from the back panel, which usually points away from the user, is also less critical than the noise from the front.
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But obviously the holes in the side of the case are equally problematic.

GPU Coolers
Necere addressed this point earlier. Most aftermarket air cooling for GPUs are wide. For example, the Arctic twin turbo II, Necere believed that one shouldn't count on them fitting. Although, as I have looked at a few other coolers (e.g. Gelid icy vision), I am optimistic that some would.

The 3rd slot is limited to 11" [long cooler], which excludes most of the triple slot ASUS cards, which are 11.8". They have a triple slot 7970 that's exactly 11", and while the cooler looks like it should fit, the PCB is wider than normal which pushes the PCIe power connectors further out, and I'm not too sure there's enough space for it.

The Accelero Twin Turbo II may or may not fit. It depends exactly where it sits on the card.

Basically, if you have a standard-width card, the most any cooler or waterblock can extend past the edge is 29mm before it hits the side panel (assuming Lian Li executes the design exactly to spec).

Without physical parts in-hand, or very precise models of everything, it's impossible to know for sure if things are going to fit or not (unless we increase the size enough to where there's no longer any question).

In short, I wouldn't really count on wider than normal cards/coolers fitting.
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Not to throw a monkey wrench in your design, but what about something laid out like this? You can add some space on either side, most likely the motherboard side for fans and more room for CPU heatsinks (I envision a wide flat low profile one being used), and some on the bottom for wider GPU's.

IMG_20121230_211914.jpg


The PCIe brackets, motherboard cutout, and PSU are all in scale and it's about 6 inches wide, and 11 inches tall. Length can be determined by how long of a GPU you want, and if there are front intake fans. Basically he space on the left of the GPU fans is empty, so you can put HD's and SSD's in there, or on the other 1/4 not occupied by the PSU.

I think I'm going to see if I can make something like this with my openbeam stuff when it comes. Gonna go pick up a 1U or 2U PCIe extender, right angle off ebay right now :)
 
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Necere said:
You're wrong, but rather than explain I'll just make a picture:





You'll note that a mATX board, all by itself, is taller than concept 4.1 is (240mm). Needless to say, with the extra 3 inches of depth mATX has on MITX/MDTX, the concept 4/4.1 layout would never work.




I never said it was an enthusiast-level board. Considering up until now the only M-DTX boards have been atom-based, anything that supports an i7 is a huge step up. For someone who loves the size of ITX but requires more than just its single PCIe slot, this board is the only option out there at the moment. Settling for last-gen interfaces is something a lot of people would willingly trade to get the flexibility of a second card.

I've been hoping more manufacturers would pick up Mini-DTX for a long time now, so this is a step in the right direction IMO. You might remember the early Mini-ITX boards weren't exactly on the high performance bleeding edge, either.




I agree. Board manufacturers have to know there's a market first, though.
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Sign me up for one concept 4.1 with dtx support! I would love to be able to fit a proper sound card. As an extension to this thought, would it be necessary to have the headset and microphone jacks on the front panel? Most people using higher quality sound cards won't go near a front panel if they care about noise. It might be a good option to have usb ports or other connectivity options instead.
 
illli said:
ps.
what about pseudo- 3rd party coolers like those asus dcuII cards? the heatpipe and shroud poke out past the pcb http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_660_Direct_Cu_II/images/contents.jpg
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Some will fit and some won't. The card you linked almost certainly will, as it's only dual slot and the cooler overhang looks to be well short of hitting the side panel. The ones that won't fit are those that are triple slot and over 11".


Diverge said:
Not to throw a monkey wrench in your design, but what about something laid out like this? You can add some space on either side, most likely the motherboard side for fans and more room for CPU heatsinks (I envision a wide flat low profile one being used), and some on the bottom for wider GPU's.
...

The PCIe brackets, motherboard cutout, and PSU are all in scale and it's about 6 inches wide, and 11 inches tall. Length can be determined by how long of a GPU you want, and if there are front intake fans. Basically he space on the left of the GPU fans is empty, so you can put HD's and SSD's in there, or on the other 1/4 not occupied by the PSU.
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It's an interesting layout but overall a bit larger than what we've got. The height ends up being closer to 12" (remember the PCIe power connectors), and if you want to support a halfway decent low profile CPU cooler (e.g., Big Shuriken w/thin fan) you're at about 6 3/4" for width. With 10.5" GPU support, it comes out to about 14-15L. Also a lot more vents on the side panels than I'd personally like.

Siba said:
would it be necessary to have the headset and microphone jacks on the front panel? Most people using higher quality sound cards won't go near a front panel if they care about noise. It might be a good option to have usb ports or other connectivity options instead.
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Would you get use out of having 4 front USB rather than just the two that are currently there? As small as the case is, it's not really that much trouble to get at the rear ports.

I think enough people use front audio that's it's worthwhile to keep them.
 
Necere said:
It's an interesting layout but overall a bit larger than what we've got. The height ends up being closer to 12" (remember the PCIe power connectors), and if you want to support a halfway decent low profile CPU cooler (e.g., Big Shuriken w/thin fan) you're at about 6 3/4" for width. With 10.5" GPU support, it comes out to about 14-15L. Also a lot more vents on the side panels than I'd personally like.
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Good point about the GPU power connectors. I totally forgot about them.
 
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