Here Comes Microsoft Surface Pro, 64 Bits and All

Status
Not open for further replies.
heatlesssun said:
But this was on a tablet using touch which isn't something common to other OSes and there is no Metro version of Excel. And really, how many people with tablets would ever do something like this? The screen is too small being the biggest issue. Advanced multi-tasking scenarios like this simply aren't things that people do with tablets. I'm not saying that Metro shouldn't be improved to do these things, I would have to be if it's supposed to replace the desktop, but that's not at all what it's about right now.



And you're totally ignoring the specific reasons I gave as to why someone might want something like a 500T over that laptop. If that laptop is so feature rich then where the Wacom digitizer?
Click to expand...

this is all i see
l5IhV.png
 
heatlesssun said:
But this was on a tablet using touch which isn't something common to other OSes and there is no Metro version of Excel. And really, how many people with tablets would ever do something like this? The screen is too small being the biggest issue. Advanced multi-tasking scenarios like this simply aren't things that people do with tablets. I'm not saying that Metro shouldn't be improved to do these things, I would have to be if it's supposed to replace the desktop, but that's not at all what it's about right now.
Click to expand...

Computers are expected to do more than one thing. That's what they're about. If you want to use more than one Metro app at a time, well, good luck. I guess you can watch Netflix while you do something else...maybe.

And you're totally ignoring the specific reasons I gave as to why someone might want something like a 500T over that laptop. If that laptop is so feature rich then where the Wacom digitizer?
Click to expand...

Wacom...poking a screen with a stick...so what if the brand name happens to be Wacom? It wouldn't even be necessary if there was a keyboard and mouse. A stylus is a poor substitute that attempts to make up for shortcomings in the lack of useful input devices.

Yeah, battery life and weight. Netbooks already do that for less money and no significant difference in weight and they include a keyboard.
 
SkribbelKat said:
OneNote is a lot more limited than MS Paint because it doesn't have as many image editing tools. I was just trying to be friendly by offering it the benefit of doubt.
Click to expand...

This makes no sense. I guess if a program isn't an image editor then MS Paint is more powerful?

SkribbelKat said:
Wacom...wackcomm, whatever. You poke a screen with a stick and it draws lines.
Click to expand...

If it doesn't mean anything to you then it doesn't. It means a lot to others.
 
heatlesssun said:
This makes no sense. I guess if a program isn't an image editor then MS Paint is more powerful?
Click to expand...

True! MS Paint can pretty much do anything.

If it doesn't mean anything to you then it doesn't. It means a lot to others.
Click to expand...

People who are brand infatuated and insist that only one company can stick a name on a product to make that product worthwhile are the sorts of people who get drooly over stuff like Wacom, Apple, Oscar Mayer, and whatever else.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Computers are expected to do more than one thing. That's what they're about. If you want to use more than one Metro app at a time, well, good luck. I guess you can watch Netflix while you do something else...maybe.
Click to expand...

I use Netflix and other video playback while surfing occasionally.

SkribbelKat said:
Wacom...poking a screen with a stick...so what if the brand name happens to be Wacom? It wouldn't even be necessary if there was a keyboard and mouse. A stylus is a poor substitute that attempts to make up for shortcomings in the lack of useful input devices.

Yeah, battery life and weight. Netbooks already do that for less money and no significant difference in weight and they include a keyboard.
Click to expand...

There's only two companies that make active pen digitizer technology on a large scale, Wacom and N-trig. I've used both and Wacom technology has simply worked better for me. Wacom is generally considered to be better than N-trig tech by a lot of tablet PC veterans. Microsoft is using it's own pen digitizer technology in the Surface Pro.

And I don't know why you keep comparing clamshell devices with keyboards with tablets. You can't use a netbook like a tablet.
 
heatlesssun said:
There's only two companies that make active pen digitizer technology on a large scale, Wacom and N-trig. I've used both and Wacom technology has simply worked better for me. Wacom is generally considered to be better than N-trig tech by a lot of tablet PC veterans. Microsoft is using it's own pen digitizer technology in the Surface Pro.
Click to expand...

Not at all important. Stick pokes screen and the computer processes what the stick is doing. It doesn't matter who makes the sensors or the stick or how they work.

And I don't know why you keep comparing clamshell devices with keyboards with tablets. You can't use a netbook like a tablet.
Click to expand...

Computers compute stuff. There's nothing special about a tablet that makes it not a computer that should be expected to compute stuff except that it's more cumbersome to enter data if you don't pay whatever it costs to own a keyboard and carry the keyboard around and the screen doesn't hold itself up very well when you put it in your lap like a laptop does. Oh, and there's the fact that they're less powerful for the same cost.
 
Globox said:
Can't use a netbook like a tablet? Gee its a shamed they stopped making this thing
Click to expand...

Yes, there are convertible devices, I've had a number of them, not a netbook convertible though. But convertibles are bulkier when you just want a tablet, that's why I like the folding keyboard hybrid dock design, when you don't want or need the keyboard no need to have the extra bulk.
 
heatlesssun said:
Ok:

Screenshot%20(17)%201.png


But no one is going to want to use these programs for extended periods of time like this with touch. If people wanted this kind of UI on a tablet then Windows tablets should have done better than they have in the past. You're criticizing the touch elements of Windows 8 for not being complex enough but people largely rejected Windows tablets because the desktop UI is mouse and keyboard driven and too complex for tablets.
Click to expand...

Not Metro.

Shit I can do that on my existing Windows 7 I don't need 8 for that.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Not at all important. Stick pokes screen and the computer processes what the stick is doing. It doesn't matter who makes the sensors or the stick or how they work.
Click to expand...

There's a great deal of difference in how Wacom and N-Trig implement their technology. N-trig pens use an active transmitter in their pens which requires a battery and its historically has had issues with electromagnetic interference. Wacom pens are passive, they don't require batteries, the screen transmits the signal and they seem to have a lot less trouble with interference with the devices I have.

SkribbelKat said:
Computers compute stuff. There's nothing special about a tablet that makes it not a computer that should be expected to compute stuff except that it's more cumbersome to enter data if you don't pay whatever it costs to own a keyboard and carry the keyboard around and the screen doesn't hold itself up very well when you put it in your lap like a laptop does. Oh, and there's the fact that they're less powerful for the same cost.
Click to expand...

Sure computers compute stuff, but how we use computers vary from person to person and activity to activity. If I'm writing code, I use a keyboard and mouse. If I'm taking notes, I often do it with a pen. If I want a device to have on the go and want more than my phone and don't need to input lots of text, a tablet is simply more portable. It's not always about top end performance.
 
Wrench00 said:
Not Metro.

Shit I can do that on my existing Windows 7 I don't need 8 for that.
Click to expand...

I pointed out that this could be done with 7, and look at how people flocked to Windows 7 tablets. This just isn't something that people do with tablets.
 
Yah! 2013 release, even though I already ordered an Acer W700. I'll try it out with Win 8 Pro first, if the flicks aren't there, I'm loading Win 7 onto it.
 
Oh no, it's turning into one of those threads.
Globox is machine gunning with cats, SkribbelKat is dominating with Compaq references, and heatlesssun is laying it on thick with his superior tablet knowledge.

WHO WILL COME OUT ON TOP!? :D
 
I would purchase a lenova yoga anyday over the surface pro if I was in the market to purchase that is.
 
heatlessun is actually giving good discussion info, opinions, and reasons for these hybrid tablets. Too bad there are so many trolls in this thread now.
 
This is the Surface I think is actually worth buying. It's a little pricey, but I don't think tablets are practical devices in the first place... that's one reason I've never owned one.

Here's what I like about it:

1. Type cover basically doubles as a light cover in addition to keyboard functions, and isn't obtrusive if you're used to using tablets with a cover anyway (which many are thanks to the iPad).

2. All my Metro apps would be synced up with my Desktop computer via my Microsoft account, so if I buy them on one device, they work on both.

3. If I need/want to run an older desktop application, I can still do it.

4. Windows 8 works the same way on both devices. I learn it once, and apply it everywhere.

5. Windows 8 actually allows that little sidebar thing, while most Tablet operating systems only allow one application on screen at once. I always found that limitation annoying... what if I want to compare or copy/paste data from two apps at once, without constantly switching between them? Granted, I think they should have made the sidebar adjustable so I could have two apps each take up half the screen (which is a very common thing for me), but I'm glad the feature is there at all.

I don't know why, I just really like the whole unified interface concept. It made so much sense to me, it reminds me of a website I designed once. The person I designed it for didn't like it, said it was too different from typical, but it was actually streamlined in a way that I was really pleased with. I feel like Microsoft may have made an error that will cost it a sale with most people, but I really feel like I "get" Metro.

The price point is higher than I'd like, but it's the first tablet I've ever found remotely interesting. I've never been interested in other tablets because they didn't integrate with my PC at all, none of the applications carry over, and nothing I learned about using them would transfer to any other device, so I just thought "That's a pointless waste of time, I'll stick with an ultrabook." But the way Metro does things is closer to how Tablets would need to do things to get me interested in them.

I think I must be that very small percentage of the population out there that hates current tablets altogether, but would be open to them if they integrated better with my Desktop. The people Microsoft was targeting basically.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Not at all important. Stick pokes screen and the computer processes what the stick is doing. It doesn't matter who makes the sensors or the stick or how they work.



Computers compute stuff. There's nothing special about a tablet that makes it not a computer that should be expected to compute stuff except that it's more cumbersome to enter data if you don't pay whatever it costs to own a keyboard and carry the keyboard around and the screen doesn't hold itself up very well when you put it in your lap like a laptop does. Oh, and there's the fact that they're less powerful for the same cost.
Click to expand...


Lol go try and use a "stick" on an ipad for handwriting and see how accurate it is. Then try the same on a wacom tablet. There is no comparison, and it has nothing to do with computing power. This is one of the most ignorant posts i have seen in a while.....
 
ClearM4 said:
heatlessun is actually giving good discussion info, opinions, and reasons for these hybrid tablets. Too bad there are so many trolls in this thread now.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Biznatch said:
Lol go try and use a "stick" on an ipad for handwriting and see how accurate it is. Then try the same on a wacom tablet. There is no comparison, and it has nothing to do with computing power. This is one of the most ignorant posts i have seen in a while.....
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's pretty obvious to anyone that's familiar with digital pens that this didn't make much sense.
 
heatlesssun said:
Thanks.



Yeah, it's pretty obvious to anyone that's familiar with digital pens that this didn't make much sense.
Click to expand...

LOL...Put it this way. Many of the faculty in my department have been trying to incorporate iPads into their lectures, replacing overheads and pens with computer projectors, iPads, and "pens"...The results are laughably bad in practice in presentation/readability/fluidity.
 
Skripka said:
LOL...Put it this way. Many of the faculty in my department have been trying to incorporate iPads into their lectures, replacing overheads and pens with computer projectors, iPads, and "pens"...The results are laughably bad in practice in presentation/readability/fluidity.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, ipads rely on shitty capacitive pens, and not Wacom like stylus/tablet interfaces. There is a huge, grand canyon difference between the two. So much so that I am not even sure how to go about explaining it. If you have access to a Galaxy Note 1 or 2, I suggest you try a capacitive pen, and then an S-pen. See the difference for yourself.
 
GORANKAR said:
As far as I know, ipads rely on shitty capacitive pens, and not Wacom like stylus/tablet interfaces. There is a huge, grand canyon difference between the two. So much so that I am not even sure how to go about explaining it. If you have access to a Galaxy Note 1 or 2, I suggest you try a capacitive pen, and then an S-pen. See the difference for yourself.
Click to expand...

I do have a a Note2....and the thought has come to my mind why and how said people's overhead-projector digital replacement can be so laughably bad in comparison to the digitizer in my Note2.
 
S-pen is just a Samsung name for Wacom technology that been around forever. Wacom pens are very interchangeable, the s-pens in Note devices work on Windows devices and vice versa. Note devices are much better than the iPad for digital ink but they aren't as good Windows inking technology, it is after all 10 years old and pretty mature at this point. One thing that Wacom digitizers support are erasers, just flip the pen over and erase like a normal pen. Inking is one thing that Windows does very well on tablets, it's something that Microsoft really should push, I was a bit surprised that the Surface RT didn't implement a digital pen, but then none of the Windows RT devices have implemented digital pens, not sure if was a cost issue or something else going on.

Of course this Surface Pro does implement Microsoft's pen technology, I'll be curious to see how it performs.
 
Biznatch said:
Lol go try and use a "stick" on an ipad for handwriting and see how accurate it is. Then try the same on a wacom tablet. There is no comparison, and it has nothing to do with computing power. This is one of the most ignorant posts i have seen in a while.....
Click to expand...

heatlesssun said:
Yeah, it's pretty obvious to anyone that's familiar with digital pens that this didn't make much sense.
Click to expand...

Neither of you have used a pen-driven device. Palm Pilots that run on AAA batteries and Pocket PCs that are over 10 years old seem to be just fine with plastic sticks and no sign of Wacom anyplace. Call me back with you have more experience with the technology that you're trying to talk about because it's pretty obvious you both don't have a wide range of experience with multiple pen-based hardware devices.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Neither of you have used a pen-driven device. Palm Pilots that run on AAA batteries and Pocket PCs that are over 10 years old seem to be just fine with plastic sticks and no sign of Wacom anyplace. Call me back with you have more experience with the technology that you're trying to talk about because it's pretty obvious you both don't have a wide range of experience with multiple pen-based hardware devices.
Click to expand...

You've just gone to insane mode again. I just told you that a had a pen Palm device and I still have a couple of Pocket PCs around somewhere, even had a Newton. You'll get you fans here of course but what you just said is pretty much as stupid as stupid gets.

Stop trolling so hard and enjoy the Holidays!;)
 
heatlesssun said:
You've just gone to insane mode again. I just told you that a had a pen Palm device and I still have a couple of Pocket PCs around somewhere, even had a Newton. You'll get you fans here of course but what you just said is pretty much as stupid as stupid gets.

Stop trolling so hard and enjoy the Holidays!;)
Click to expand...

If you actally have used that sort of stuff, then you'd realize already that it's not necessary for Wacom or any brand name in particular to be involved at all in a product in order for it to accept input from a pen. I know this is a new device for you and you really want it to be special/interesting/great so, like anyone else that has bought or done something, you're going down the list of benefits it offers to you, but that doesn't mean that any non-Wacom branded devices are terrible as a result.

Anyhow, the way you type and act, it certainly seemed like you'd either never used such devices or have and forgot how they worked. I'm just helping jog your faulty memory and remind you that, before you moved on to this newest set of toys, your old toys impressed you with identical functionality years ago. It does take away some of the magic of the new device smell and thrill, but humans are too willing to get caught up in the excitement to remember what happened in the past.

Anyhow, go stick some batteries in a Palm, if you actually own one, and use it. If you approach it from a marginally realistic perspective, you'll realize that a stick on a screen over a decade ago is pretty much the same as a stick on a screen now.
 
SkribbelKat said:
If you actally have used that sort of stuff, then you'd realize already that it's not necessary for Wacom or any brand name in particular to be involved at all in a product in order for it to accept input from a pen. I know this is a new device for you and you really want it to be special/interesting/great so, like anyone else that has bought or done something, you're going down the list of benefits it offers to you, but that doesn't mean that any non-Wacom branded devices are terrible as a result.

Anyhow, the way you type and act, it certainly seemed like you'd either never used such devices or have and forgot how they worked. I'm just helping jog your faulty memory and remind you that, before you moved on to this newest set of toys, your old toys impressed you with identical functionality years ago. It does take away some of the magic of the new device smell and thrill, but humans are too willing to get caught up in the excitement to remember what happened in the past.

Anyhow, go stick some batteries in a Palm, if you actually own one, and use it. If you approach it from a marginally realistic perspective, you'll realize that a stick on a screen over a decade ago is pretty much the same as a stick on a screen now.
Click to expand...

Yea... Except as a former Palm Vx user... Only rudimentary inputs were possible over the LCD portion of the screen, whereas only the bottom of the screen took the more complex pen input
 
Skripka said:
Yea... Except as a former Palm Vx user... Only rudimentary inputs were possible over the LCD portion of the screen, whereas only the bottom of the screen took the more complex pen input
Click to expand...

Too true. Then again, the Palm Vx had a 20 MHz CPU so I sorta think it's reasonable to want a little bit more back out of a new device. It's still just a screen with a stick that does the same thing and nothing to get too excited about. I dunno though, that stuff all came out 20 years before I was born so I have no idea if it was a big deal back then to show off your mad grafitti skillz to your friends when you met at the Y to play that new Pong arcade game.
 
SkribbelKat said:
If you actally have used that sort of stuff, then you'd realize already that it's not necessary for Wacom or any brand name in particular to be involved at all in a product in order for it to accept input from a pen.
Click to expand...

You quite literally sometimes troll to the point of insanity where someone tells you the truth and then you make something up in your head, that's when your trolling becomes disturbing actually:

100_0865.png


That's a Pocket PC in the middle with a resistive screen, don't even know when the last time I turned that thing on was and don't care. If you think that a resistive screen has anything remotely in common with a Wacom digitizer, yep, funny farm time for you.

Insane%20Mode%20Cat.png
 
SkribbelKat said:
Anyhow, go stick some batteries in a Palm, if you actually own one, and use it. If you approach it from a marginally realistic perspective, you'll realize that a stick on a screen over a decade ago is pretty much the same as a stick on a screen now.
Click to expand...

Fundamentally, sure. Pen on screen, it inputs to computer device.

The way it's done, completely different. The way they feel, completely different. Old resistive pen inputs are not "pretty much the same" as today's Wacom digitizers, today's capacitive pens. Almost no one bothers with resistive touchscreens (the crap in Palm). Last time I even saw a consumer device that used a resistive touchscreen was Creative's X-Fi 2 mp3 player.
 
heatlesssun said:
You quite literally sometimes troll to the point of insanity where someone tells you the truth and then you make something up in your head, that's when your trolling becomes disturbing actually:

That's a Pocket PC in the middle with a resistive screen, don't even know when the last time I turned that thing on was and don't care. If you think that a resistive screen has anything remotely in common with a Wacom digitizer, yep, funny farm time for you.
Click to expand...

We get it, you have every Windows tablet ever made. There is no reason to post a picture of two tablets; one will suffice.
 
damicatz said:
We get it, you have every Windows tablet ever made. There is no reason to post a picture of two tablets; one will suffice.
Click to expand...

Don't be so harsh. It's a rare sight to see Windows tablets. He's probably the only one buying them :D
 
SkribbelKat said:
If you actally have used that sort of stuff, then you'd realize already that it's not necessary for Wacom or any brand name in particular to be involved at all in a product in order for it to accept input from a pen. I know this is a new device for you and you really want it to be special/interesting/great so, like anyone else that has bought or done something, you're going down the list of benefits it offers to you, but that doesn't mean that any non-Wacom branded devices are terrible as a result.

Anyhow, the way you type and act, it certainly seemed like you'd either never used such devices or have and forgot how they worked. I'm just helping jog your faulty memory and remind you that, before you moved on to this newest set of toys, your old toys impressed you with identical functionality years ago. It does take away some of the magic of the new device smell and thrill, but humans are too willing to get caught up in the excitement to remember what happened in the past.

Anyhow, go stick some batteries in a Palm, if you actually own one, and use it. If you approach it from a marginally realistic perspective, you'll realize that a stick on a screen over a decade ago is pretty much the same as a stick on a screen now.
Click to expand...


You do realize the difference between a wacom digitizer and an ipad touchscreen is like comparing writing with a .3mm lead pencil and a fat tip sharpie. Yes you can use both to input text, but it doesn't mean crap when you can only fit a couple font size 30 words on your screen.... Seriously you are completely wrong, just stop speweing your misinformation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top