NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Necere, I ran into the same problem with EVERY mfg. I approached with a few of my designs. Either they didn't have a punch capable of punching the material with a pattern that large or deformation was a concern. Some suggested laser cutting the holes, but the cycle time and cost per part went through the roof. One panel very similar in size to the one you mention (fewer holes) went from $34 to $114.

Ultimately, I don't believe going to 2mm will solve this deformation. You may want to consider increasing the size of the holes and reducing the number of them, or consider a mesh inlay.

That hole pattern doesn't seem too far off from some of Lian Li's existing design features. What's making the difference on this part?
 
cmadki4 said:
You may want to consider increasing the size of the holes and reducing the number of them, or consider a mesh inlay.
Click to expand...

Yeah, these are both possibilities on the table. W360 is against a mesh inlay though, on account of it looking cheap :p

cmadki4 said:
That hole pattern doesn't seem too far off from some of Lian Li's existing design features. What's making the difference on this part?
Click to expand...

My guess is the fact that it's a sheet with no flanges to maintain the shape. If you look at their cases, they typically have at most a 120mm-sized ventilation hole pattern on flangeless panels.

I'm not sure why they didn't mention it being a problem for the side panel though, which has exactly the same number of holes, no flanges, and a similar distance-to-edge on three sides as the top.
 
Necere said:
Yeah, these are both possibilities on the table. W360 is against a mesh inlay though, on account of it looking cheap :p
Click to expand...

A mesh inlay for the top panel would be inconsistent with our side panels. That is the main reason why I'm against it.

I prefer no mesh inlays period, but if SilverStone can't help us either, then we'll have to make compromises.
 
wahaha360 said:
A mesh inlay for the top panel would be inconsistent with our side panels. That is the main reason why I'm against it.

I prefer no mesh inlays period, but if SilverStone can't help us either, then we'll have to make compromises.
Click to expand...
Slotted vents, then? Lower cost if lasered and higher % open area than punched mesh. Not sure it really goes with the styling of your case, but it is a possible solution.

Also note that mfgs usually take into consideration the number of operations required to fabricate a part. Ex: a panel that has to be lasered and then punched will cost more than one that only has to be lasered. Even given that most charge per pierce, that cost is generally negligible.
 
Not an engineer, but the issue is structural integrity and warping caused by lack of materials and strength of 1.5mm aluminum? Would changing the pattern/dot spread or shaping the pattern closer to the intake silhouet of a 120mm fan leave enough material to prevent warping? Basically going for function over form.

I'm probably talking out my butt. Wish I had taken engineering classes in college instead of design. :(
 
Are all those holes even necessary? Maybe limit them to just over the PSU exhaust area.

With the side fans as intakes, most of the air will then be pushed out the bottom. Probably keep the hard drive and video card cooler that way too.

edit: Also, why not make the top/side/front panels in a fashion similar to, say, the PC-A55 (or other more traditional LL cases)? At the least, I think the flanged top panel and having the seams be on the side of the case rather than all at the top, would look much better. The top panel would be much more rigid too.

I'm a bit late to the project, so sorry if these have already been rejected. Amazing work so far, I was starting to get tired of the cases out there now that always miss something or are far too large to be SFF. I'll be building an ITX system later next year so if this pans out by then......:D
 
Last edited:
doh boy said:
Are all those holes even necessary? Maybe limit them to just over the PSU exhaust area.

With the side fans as intakes, most of the air will then be pushed out the bottom. Probably keep the hard drive and video card cooler that way too.

edit: Also, why not make the top/side/front panels in a fashion similar to, say, the PC-A55 (or other more traditional LL cases)? At the least, I think the flanged top panel and having the seams be on the side of the case rather than all at the top, would look much better. The top panel would be much more rigid too.

I'm a bit late to the project, so sorry if these have already been rejected. Amazing work so far, I was starting to get tired of the cases out there now that always miss something or are far too large to be SFF. I'll be building an ITX system later next year so if this pans out by then......:D
Click to expand...

We have some ideas on how to address Lian Li's manufacturing concerns. We also began communicating with SilverStone and they might be able to fabricate without any changes - fingers crossed.

This case idea has been a marathon and we are 25 miles into it; we are pretty determine to find a way to make it work.
 
I'm itching to make a logo for this project. Can't wait for the name announcement! It'll probably be in a new thread though, right?
 
M4rk said:
I'm itching to make a logo for this project. Can't wait for the name announcement! It'll probably be in a new thread though, right?
Click to expand...

Not to burst your bubble, but I actually already designed a logo last month. We're keeping it pretty simple; stylized text only, no graphic symbol.

I suppose I should explain that the logo it will be wearing is the name we picked for our little operation, not the case itself, though it will have a model designation as well (but less prominently displayed). We're not a company, but just in case we're accidentally successful with this, we want to leave the door open to future variations/models, and building a little brand recognition with this first project will help that.

Though if we show it and it ends up getting a lot of hate, we might consider some other options. So there's still hope :p
 
M4rk said:
I'm itching to make a logo for this project. Can't wait for the name announcement! It'll probably be in a new thread though, right?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer, very much appreciate it.

I spoke with Necere, we'll be in touch once we know the case / project is viable.

Necere and I agreed on a basic text logo and didn't put much effort into it b/c we were more focused on the case.

I believe the best idea should always win and we hope you can do something better :)
 
fusionmkx said:
What are you guys planning on naming this casing?
Click to expand...
ekuest said:
shhhh! its a secret!
Click to expand...

1) The model name is associated with the design, it makes more sense to work on those details and reveal them after we know a design is both production and economically viable. We REALLY appreciate the offers to help with name, logo and website, but we don't want to risk wasting your time on vaporware.

2) It's always better to under promise and over deliver, which means we have to manage expectations. Throwing out too many details and getting ahead ourselves will only make people more anxious and expect more - setting up the stage for disappointment.
 
Last edited:
Necere said:
Not to burst your bubble, but I actually already designed a logo last month. We're keeping it pretty simple; stylized text only, no graphic symbol.

I suppose I should explain that the logo it will be wearing is the name we picked for our little operation, not the case itself, though it will have a model designation as well (but less prominently displayed). We're not a company, but just in case we're accidentally successful with this, we want to leave the door open to future variations/models, and building a little brand recognition with this first project will help that.

Though if we show it and it ends up getting a lot of hate, we might consider some other options. So there's still hope :p
Click to expand...

wahaha360 said:
Thanks for the offer, very much appreciate it.

I spoke with Necere, we'll be in touch once we know the case / project is viable.

Necere and I agreed on a basic text logo and didn't put much effort into it b/c we were more focused on the case.

I believe the best idea should always win and we hope you can do something better :)
Click to expand...
Plaintext logos without icons are best for products, in my humble opinion. Icons are useful for company branding, however.

I'm sure what you guys have is slick, I'll keep checking back here regularly! :)
 
wahaha360 said:
3) Necere and I are spending a lot of late nights reviewing every detail trying to simplify production to reduce costs - so we can deliver this product at a reasonable price. Good planning and patience makes a difference in the final price for all buyer, which includes us.
Click to expand...
Does this mean Lian Li has given you an MOQ and unit cost?
 
M4rk said:
Plaintext logos without icons are best for products, in my humble opinion. Icons are useful for company branding, however.

I'm sure what you guys have is slick, I'll keep checking back here regularly! :)
Click to expand...

i disagree, i think theyre boring and forgettable like lian li's. it's just another name. i like logos without words like bitfenix's and silverstone's where theyre instantly recongizable. logos with words are the worst, like cooler master's.

also just a humble opinion. :p
 
ekuest said:
i disagree, i think theyre boring and forgettable like lian li's. it's just another name. i like logos without words like bitfenix's and silverstone's where theyre instantly recongizable. logos with words are the worst, like cooler master's.

also just a humble opinion. :p
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I like Mazda's or Acura's or Benz's logos better than Nissan's or Ford's.
 
Dunno if this has been looked into (probably has but theres a lot of pages to read through here.) Looks like there's 2x120 fan mounts on the bottom of the case, With some skill at tubing couldn't a second 2x120mm rad be mounted there?
 
Necere said:
So the question I have for you/your engineers is, 1.) do you have the capability to punch 2mm+ aluminum (or otherwise economically put lots of little holes in), and 2.) will it prevent warping of the panel in this design.
Click to expand...

1) Yes, 2mm+ aluminum is what we usually use for our high-end cases.
2) With 2mm panel, you may still get a little bit of warping with that many holes punched so you should have a prototype made to check and see.
 
What about instead of one big section with holes, divide it up into like 2 or 8 sections. For two divide in half, and leave ~1/2" solid alu in between, for 8 divide each half into 4 squares, and then you have some more solid alu in there that should help it stay more rigid.
 
ekuest said:
i disagree, i think theyre boring and forgettable like lian li's. it's just another name. i like logos without words like bitfenix's and silverstone's where theyre instantly recongizable. logos with words are the worst, like cooler master's.

also just a humble opinion. :p
Click to expand...
We're getting a little off-topic here, but there's nothing much else to talk about, so...

I made a distinction in my previous post between product logos and company branding. Not sure if you noticed that or not. An example of what I mean can be seen with automobile branding. Manufacturers often have a symbol (icon) as their main branding.

Consider Toyota. If you had never seen or heard of the company before, their icon may be confusing. What's up with this random collection of three ovals? There's a good reason behind it, of course. :p

toyotalog.png


Meanwhile Toyota's products, such as the Camry, rely entirely on text to be identified. The obvious advantage of this is easy model name memorization and avoidance of brand confusion. Anyone who can read English can read Camry's name and remember it, even if they don't recognize the Toyota brand.

Camry-logo-4A58458F67-seeklogo.com.gif


Hope these images don't break! I stole 'em!

This can all be applied to case manufacturers as well. If I was a noob (we all were at one point), I would never be able to recognize the Silverstone snowflake. What does a snowflake have to do with silver or stone? Silver isn't a stone anyhow, hehe. :p Enermax's weird eyeball icon is even more wacky to me. Guess some focus group thought it looked cool?

Bitfenix's icon at least makes sense. The pun should be obvious to even a middle schooler.
 
Change the spacing of the holes or step up the thickness is the only way. Even with flanges on the side to add rigidity the aluminum will sag in the middle and become extremely susceptible to nudges/pressure. Just look at the front of Lian Li's PC-A04 etc.

And check out TFX supplies as well.
 
burgerkong said:
Change the spacing of the holes or step up the thickness is the only way. Even with flanges on the side to add rigidity the aluminum will sag in the middle and become extremely susceptible to nudges/pressure.
Click to expand...

The current suggestion from production is to keep the original design (same hole size, pattern, and no flanges) and use the press machines to form the panels back to normal after punching the holes.

Anyone ever seen this done?

cmadki4, have you ever tried this?
 
wahaha360 said:
The current suggestion from production is to keep the original design (same hole size, pattern, and no flanges) and use the press machines to form the panels back to normal after punching the holes.

Anyone ever seen this done?

cmadki4, have you ever tried this?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I've never had cause to do this. Generally speaking, I work in production quantities where it makes more sense for me to laser cut the holes than to have additional punches. But I don't see why it wouldn't work. I'd question the process capability of producing flat panels with no crown or twist. I believe a sample would in order if Lian Li stands by the 2nd pressing process.
 
wahaha360 said:
The current suggestion from production is to keep the original design (same hole size, pattern, and no flanges) and use the press machines to form the panels back to normal after punching the holes.

Anyone ever seen this done?

cmadki4, have you ever tried this?
Click to expand...

I'm just worried about the panel deforming through shipping or knocks. I had to manually bend the front panel back on mine because of improper handling. But pressing the panels after manufacturing should flatten it out again.
 
that sounds weird to me because you have to account for the elastic deformation before you get to the inelastic deformation. i am an engineer, but im not gonna pretend to remember all the materials stuff i learned in school. what i do know is you cant just press it back to flat, you have to press it back to exactly the right amount PAST flat, so that the elastic deformation when you let go will bring it back to flat. sounds to me like a hard thing to get perfect, but then i dont have tons and tons of experience doing this (which i assume lian li does). only way to know will be to see a prototype.
 
ekuest said:
that sounds weird to me because you have to account for the elastic deformation before you get to the inelastic deformation. i am an engineer, but im not gonna pretend to remember all the materials stuff i learned in school. what i do know is you cant just press it back to flat, you have to press it back to exactly the right amount PAST flat, so that the elastic deformation when you let go will bring it back to flat. sounds to me like a hard thing to get perfect, but then i dont have tons and tons of experience doing this (which i assume lian li does). only way to know will be to see a prototype.
Click to expand...
This. It's a challenge to compensate for consistently. Spring-back is accounted for by over bending. Most my dies are 86*, rather than 90*. So on material like stainless steel I'll bend to 87.5* to get 90*.

But this is a different story with a flat panel with possible crowning, bowing and twist in multiple axis. Manual intervention will likely be required, which shouldn't be a problem on a small run of 500 or less.

Wahaha360/Necere, have they given specific equipment constraints? Or are they only saying this panel may experience deformation during punch?
 
cmadki4 said:
Wahaha360/Necere, have they given specific equipment constraints? Or are they only saying this panel may experience deformation during punch?
Click to expand...

This is the direct quote from them after reviewing our initial submission:

There are lot’s of vents on the top panel. I think this panel won’t step in shape after we punch so many holes.
Click to expand...

And today, in response to our suggestion of adding flanges:

Discuss with our produce dep. today , they said it won’t help too much . We will stick with your original design and after we punch vents , we will use press machine to form it back .
Click to expand...

So there you go. On the plus side, testing it doesn't require construction of a complete prototype; just the individual panels will do. If it doesn't work out, we'll have to investigate a different vent style or using mesh inserts.
 
Anybody care about an LED on the case? It's never come up, and I never gave much thought to including it, but I'm curious if anyone would actually prefer one. It would be in the front I/O module, likely to the left of the power button. And don't worry - I have no intention of including some super-bright LED; less is more in this case. Opinions?
 
Can't hurt to have one. It could always be left disconnected if so desired, right?
 
Necere said:
Anybody care about an LED on the case? It's never come up, and I never gave much thought to including it, but I'm curious if anyone would actually prefer one. It would be in the front I/O module, likely to the left of the power button. And don't worry - I have no intention of including some super-bright LED; less is more in this case. Opinions?
Click to expand...

i dont care for lights as the computer is in my room where i sleep ,


Jen
 
the only light I let shine out of my computer is the bulgin switch power LED, but that is on the back of the case, so it's not staring me in the face.

I prefer my computers as monoblock looking as possible, fwiw :)
 
What about LED's that illuminate the ground under the case? They could make a kinda cool effect. One on the left corner for power and the right corner for hdd access, both blue.
 
extide said:
What about LED's that illuminate the ground under the case? They could make a kinda cool effect. One on the left corner for power and the right corner for hdd access, both blue.
Click to expand...

This -- the effect looked quite nice when my bulgin switch was in the floor of the case (case feet were high enough for me to put my finger under the edge and turn it on/off). I have a white ikea desk, so the LED reflection was pretty sweet when gaming w/ lights off.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top