Did MS win the battle?

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Hi Guys. What is the current situation on windows 8? Is it a success? Does it have a Future?
 
Not really, it hasn't met sales forcasts (whatever they were) and the guy who directed it got fired or something. It probably shall have a future as people need operating systems and 7 will become more and more scarce. Until Windows 9 comes along.
 
AMD_Gamer is that you!?

Microsoft shitbombed on Win 8. Not because it didn't have a chance to be more awesome than 7, it certainly did. But its changes we're allowed, they were forced.

Win 7 won the love of the tech community, who pushed it to the non tech community.
Win 8 pisses off the above, and the polar opposite is now happening.

I have it on a VM here to help guide customers, but thats it.
 
It's a success if you can somehow figure out how to get past the Metro screen (for me its one click, but apparently others got another version of the OS that mandates they switch back and forth), but since most can't then it's not a success.
 
gordon151 said:
since most can't then it's not a success.
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MS should have either done better to integrate Metro better OR left it on the shelf. I did a brief usability test on ~10 people when the Windows 8 RC came out. Everyone failed to do more than one or two basics tasks in a row before running into a problem.

I know two people that picked up new Windows 8 PCs (since you know, some people actually still buy desktop PCs) and they have been baffled beyond belief about the back and forth interaction needed between Metro and the normal desktop environment for some of their apps. One of them switched to a launcher to skip Metro altogether, the other one is struggling through it and swearing a lot while thinking the whole thing is junk. They are determined to learn it though, since it "must be better".

I think this is one of the better articles describing various Windows 8 usability problems in case anyone missed it...

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html
 
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I don't think too many people have missed this link. For a person this is supposed to be a UI expert his site isn't exactly a case study on web design I think: http://www.useit.com

Windows 8 is a very powerful and complex OS due to it's hybrid nature and it does put a lot of people out of there comfort zone by changing at nearly 2 decades old paradigm which was designed before more people had cell phones or Internet access.

The old UI is comfortable to a lot of folks but really is a throw back to a time where the PC was the ONLY computing device of much value and it's just out of step with today. It's really not that hard to adjust if one is willing to accept for what it is, which is something more mobile and portable that prior versions of Windows that are tied to keyboards and mice.

I think in time with new hardware and more Metro apps Windows 8 will do much better than most of today's detractors think, but it won't be easy and I do think that Microsoft will need to polish the UI, I don't see how the UI in it's current form can stay as is for three years especially if Windows 8 is targeted at the very fast moving mobile market that sees an OS a week from Google.
 
heatlesssun said:
Windows 8 is a very powerful and complex OS due to it's hybrid nature and it does put a lot of people out of there comfort zone by changing at nearly 2 decades old paradigm which was designed before more people had cell phones or Internet access.

The old UI is comfortable to a lot of folks but really is a throw back to a time where the PC was the ONLY computing device of much value and it's just out of step with today. It's really not that hard to adjust if one is willing to accept for what it is, which is something more mobile and portable that prior versions of Windows that are tied to keyboards and mice.
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The problem isn't that people don't like to learn new things, otherwise tablets and smartphone would have never taken off. Apple is doing fairly well selling desktop PCs to people that never used OSX before, however you rarely see those people take to the internet and go "WTF is this?" The problem is that MS took two completely different UI paradigms and smashed them together into one OS. The result is anything but seamless or easy to figure out and forces users to deal with the worst parts of both interface simultaneously. And tossing people back and forth between the two UIs does nothing for an effective workflow. Windows 8 potentially has the worst feature discoverability since MSDOS.

Hell, my mom was running Linux for a while and she didn't even care or bitch much about it. It worked, she could figure it out, and it kept the viruses off her PC since she tends to be click happy.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think you need to clarify this statement.
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There is a tendency for people to claim people just don't like Windows 8 because its new and people hate to change or learn new things. If people hate anything new, they wouldn't pickup a new cell phone (which they have NO idea how to use) and go "I need one of these". Tablets and smartphones took off because they were easy to use and brought new experiences to the user. MS failed to capture with Windows 8.

Here is another good article that points out some of the asinine usability problems with Windows 8. Written by a site that is at the forefront of Windows 8 news and hype:

http://www.neowin.net/news/editorial-things-that-suck-about-windows-8-on-a-desktop

MS should have done Windows RT as its own thing and not put forth and attempt to merge both UI designs into a desktop OS. Windows 8 on a desktop feels like what happens when way too many people are involved in the decision making process and no one wants to piss on everyone else's ideas.
 
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ocellaris said:
MS should have done Windows RT as its own thing and not put forth and attempt to merge both UI designs into a desktop OS. Windows 8 on a desktop feels like what happens when way too many people are involved in the decision making process and no one wants to piss on everyone else's ideas.
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Of course the just the fact that a nearly 20 old UI paradigm has changed is a big part of Windows 8 problem along with the fact that most Window 8 users are using decades old form factors and making their judgments on that kind of hardware. The more I've used Windows 8, especially on tablets, the more I appreciate the fact that it's no longer tied to mice and keyboards.

If the future of computing is mice and keyboards on heavy and power hungry devices then what you're saying here is true. That's not to say that powerful and heavy and power hungry personal computing will die, I don't think that it will, but that's just not what I see people doing. Everywhere I go I see iPads and a few Android tablets. No one is lugging a laptop anymore beyond work purposes.
 
heatlesssun said:
Of course the just the fact that a nearly 20 old UI paradigm has changed is a big part of Windows 8 problem along with the fact that most Window 8 users are using decades old form factors and making their judgments on that kind of hardware. The more I've used Windows 8, especially on tablets, the more I appreciate the fact that it's no longer tied to mice and keyboards.

If the future of computing is mice and keyboards on heavy and power hungry devices then what you're saying here is true. That's not to say that powerful and heavy and power hungry personal computing will die, I don't think that it will, but that's just not what I see people doing. Everywhere I go I see iPads and a few Android tablets. No one is lugging a laptop anymore beyond work purposes.
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Only users who really wouldn't need anything outside a smartphone can leave the laptop home. Want to sync, organize and edit holiday photos? No job for tablet. Want to do some music production? Not for a tablet. Want to write a short story? Not with a tablet. Want to update your podcasts on your mobile device? Not with a tablet. etc.
 
B00nie said:
Only users who really wouldn't need anything outside a smartphone can leave the laptop home. Want to sync, organize and edit holiday photos? No job for tablet. Want to do some music production? Not for a tablet. Want to write a short story? Not with a tablet. Want to update your podcasts on your mobile device? Not with a tablet. etc.
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This statement is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I just this holiday did indeed organize multiple sources of photos and uploaded them to Facebook on my Samsung Ativ 500T.

If one doesn't like Windows 8 I can get that. What I can't get is Windows 8 opponents telling me that I can't do things on my Windows 8 devices that I actually do.
 
heatlesssun said:
This statement is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I just this holiday did indeed organize multiple sources of photos and uploaded them to Facebook on my Samsung Ativ 500T.

If one doesn't like Windows 8 I can get that. What I can't get is Windows 8 opponents telling me that I can't do things on my Windows 8 devices that I actually do.
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You can't conveniently do any photoediting and/or organizing on a tablet. You may do it, it doesn't mean it's very sensible to most people.
 
B00nie said:
You can't conveniently do any photoediting and/or organizing on a tablet. You may do it, it doesn't mean it's very sensible to most people.
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There's things tablets have and do that other devices don't as well. I don't think tablets will ever completely replace desktops, but your criticisms don't strike me as fair.
 
devil22 said:
There's things tablets have and do that other devices don't as well. I don't think tablets will ever completely replace desktops, but your criticisms don't strike me as fair.
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Luckily nobody asked you! :p

A tablet is a toy that can be used when it's not feasible to use a proper tool. The lack of physical keyboard and mouse is a major setback in many tasks. Most tools lack support for touch interface completely and even those that do support it, tend to be very limited in functionality. And if nothing else stops you, the tiny screen area is the final killer for practicality.
 
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B00nie said:
Luckily nobody asked you! :p

A tablet is a toy that can be used when it's not feasible to use a proper tool. The lack of physical keyboard and mouse is a major setback in many tasks. Most tools lack support for touch interface completely and even those that do support it, tend to be very limited in functionality. And if nothing else stops you, the tiny screen area is the final killer for practicality.
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I'm aware of tablet limitations, I did not even say they didn't have them, what I said is desktops also have limitations (try taking one to a meeting, or walking around a factory with a desktop or laptop), it's comparing apples and oranges, there is room for both, and I would venture thus for an OS that accommodates both.

Oh, and nobody needs to ask me for me to give an opinion on this subject, your house, the [H] is not..
 
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devil22 said:
I'm aware of tablet limitations, I did not even say they didn't have them, what I said is desktops also have limitations (try taking one to a meeting, or walking around a factory with a desktop or laptop), it's comparing apples and oranges, there is room for both, and I would venture thus for an OS that accommodates both.

Oh, and nobody needs to ask me for me to give an opinion on this subject, your house, the [H] is not..
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The fact remains, nobody asked you!

Good that you recognize tablet and desktop are apples and oranges. Therefore you must also recognize the ultimate failure to merge their user interfaces in a way that serves neither.
 
My friend called me, he had bought a new laptop for his kids Christmas present (this guy is a decent pc user) and wanted to set it up so he didn't have to do it Christmas day. It had win 8 and he was so confused.

His words "What's this shit?"
 
I installed it

Spent > 15 minutes looking for the programs list -- specifically the windows update application

I gave up

I still don't know where the fuck it is or how to do anything in this OS

I had to install some third party start button just to be able to find the fucking control panel and my computer and shit.

What a mess.
 
Why do some people always have reasons why we don't like Windows 8, rather than just accepting we don't like it be done?
 
B00nie said:
You can't conveniently do any photoediting and/or organizing on a tablet. You may do it, it doesn't mean it's very sensible to most people.
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Of course one can especially on a Windows 8 tablet with a pen, plenty of people use Photoshop like this and it's quite convenient.
 
heatlesssun said:
Of course one can especially on a Windows 8 tablet with a pen, plenty of people use Photoshop like this and it's quite convenient.
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I really can't see how editing a photo from a screen the size of a bunghole can be convenient. Tablets lack processing power also to edit any heavier imagery smoothly.

I guess it can be done if you're willing to look and edit the pictures using suboptimal resolutions and doing so without knowing the actual end result :) Of course you can try to mind map by zooming it part by part?
 
!@#$%^&*() said:
I installed it

Spent > 15 minutes looking for the programs list -- specifically the windows update application

I gave up

I still don't know where the fuck it is or how to do anything in this OS

I had to install some third party start button just to be able to find the fucking control panel and my computer and shit.

What a mess.
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You should have used search. I find many similarities between Unity and Metro. Both are horrible to use and require search if you want to find the simpliest of things.
 
You can search, which has been the defacto way of loading programs since Vista and 7. Or you could load up the filemanager and click on Control Panel on the right. Which is where it's been since at least Vista but probably XP as well.

Windows 8 is doing great with everyone I know who has used it for a day.
 
Veilrap said:
You can search, which has been the defacto way of loading programs since Vista and 7. Or you could load up the filemanager and click on Control Panel on the right. Which is where it's been since at least Vista but probably XP as well.

Windows 8 is doing great with everyone I know who has used it for a day.
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It has been a defacto crutch to bypass the first steps to pork the UI you mean. Most people do not know the app names by heart so search couldn't be more useless. The problem escalates if several language versions are at play.
 
heatlesssun said:
Of course one can especially on a Windows 8 tablet with a pen, plenty of people use Photoshop like this and it's quite convenient.
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Yes, people who buy tablets also pay for professional applications that cost roughly 50-80% of the tablet's price and use them with tiny displays :p People will draw on their tablets with pen inputs, but if they're doing photoshop work then they're doing it wrong. For Photoshop still isn't touch friendly and has a very extensive and detailed UI that doesn't lend itself to tablets. Granted, that's the case with most "business" and "professional" applications.

It's too early to tell if Win8 is a failure, but current signs are pointing to yes. Generally speaking, you want to judge how an OS is accepted in its early adoption rate. The adoption rate of Win8 is less than 1/5th the rate of Win7, so in that sense it's a failure.

It can pick up though, because unlike Win7, Win8 is more centered around hybrid devices, tablets and phones thus it's failure or success aren't riding on the conventional PC landscape but rather outside of it; devices like tablets, smartphones and convertible laptops are where Win8's performance (and sales) will be judged. It does ride heavily on people buying these sorts of devices and skipping over the Android tablets and Apple's premium devices. So price is going to be a determining factor. If MS wants to push people into the Metro/Win8 ecosystem then it would benefit them if there were some cheap devices that sold in high volume, but there aren't any at the moment.

TL/DR: On the PC it's probably going to bomb, in mobile it's too early to tell.
 
pelo said:
Yes, people who buy tablets also pay for professional applications that cost roughly 50-80% of the tablet's price and use them with tiny displays :p People will draw on their tablets with pen inputs, but if they're doing photoshop work then they're doing it wrong. For Photoshop still isn't touch friendly and has a very extensive and detailed UI that doesn't lend itself to tablets. Granted, that's the case with most "business" and "professional" applications.
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Huh? Photoshop has been used on Tablet PCs for many years with great results for a lot of folks. The key to it is not touch but pen input which works very well for controlling a desktop UI like Photoshop, pens are high precision pointers just like mice.

pelo said:
It's too early to tell if Win8 is a failure, but current signs are pointing to yes. Generally speaking, you want to judge how an OS is accepted in its early adoption rate. The adoption rate of Win8 is less than 1/5th the rate of Win7, so in that sense it's a failure.

It can pick up though, because unlike Win7, Win8 is more centered around hybrid devices, tablets and phones thus it's failure or success aren't riding on the conventional PC landscape but rather outside of it; devices like tablets, smartphones and convertible laptops are where Win8's performance (and sales) will be judged. It does ride heavily on people buying these sorts of devices and skipping over the Android tablets and Apple's premium devices. So price is going to be a determining factor. If MS wants to push people into the Metro/Win8 ecosystem then it would benefit them if there were some cheap devices that sold in high volume, but there aren't any at the moment.
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So you're saying that Windows 8 will be judged to be a success on hardware that's not out in any number right now but you're saying that success can generally be judged on early adoption? Doesn't make any sense.

pelo said:
TL/DR: On the PC it's probably going to bomb, in mobile it's too early to tell.
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And what does bomb on the PC mean exactly? And my PC I guess you're speaking on conventional desktops and laptops. Will Windows 8 sell like Windows 7? Probably not especially as Windows 7 sales will continue for some time in large numbers in the enterprise space. But as you note, as tablets and hybrids start to come out in greater number and get better and cheaper, that's where the market success of Windows 8 will be determined.

I really don't think that Microsoft was expecting a huge instant hit in Windows 8 as it does represent a big shift in the Windows line. Microsoft has repeatedly said that part and parcel of the Windows 8 story is new hardware. I think Microsoft was hoping for more of this new hardware for launch and lack of it is a problem.
 
Jay_oasis said:
My friend called me, he had bought a new laptop for his kids Christmas present (this guy is a decent pc user) and wanted to set it up so he didn't have to do it Christmas day. It had win 8 and he was so confused.

His words "What's this shit?"
Click to expand...

Exactly my feelings last week when I installed my mom's new HP ENVY, at first i was like WTF?? Then I was like MEH!! Not as fast as everyone says, only the boot process was shaved a few seconds.
 
heatlesssun said:
Huh? Photoshop has been used on Tablet PCs for many years with great results for a lot of folks. The key to it is not touch but pen input which works very well for controlling a desktop UI like Photoshop, pens are high precision pointers just like mice.
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Pen input works well, but the UI is difficult to manage on a small screen and rendering times can be slow on ULV machines, never mind Atoms or Bobcat APUs. The bigger the screen the easier it is to work.



heatlesssun said:
So you're saying that Windows 8 will be judged to be a success on hardware that's not out in any number right now but you're saying that success can generally be judged on early adoption? Doesn't make any sense.
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Success or failure of the OS on traditional PCs is judged by the early adoption rate, more so than tablets, smartphones, and hybrids. In this respect Win7 was 5-6x higher than Win8.



heatlesssun said:
And what does bomb on the PC mean exactly? And my PC I guess you're speaking on conventional desktops and laptops. Will Windows 8 sell like Windows 7? Probably not especially as Windows 7 sales will continue for some time in large numbers in the enterprise space. But as you note, as tablets and hybrids start to come out in greater number and get better and cheaper, that's where the market success of Windows 8 will be determined.
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See above. I meant traditional PCs is where Win8 has currently bombed. The mobile space is too early to tell, but it should certainly fare better particularly over the long term.

heatlesssun said:
I really don't think that Microsoft was expecting a huge instant hit in Windows 8 as it does represent a big shift in the Windows line. Microsoft has repeatedly said that part and parcel of the Windows 8 story is new hardware. I think Microsoft was hoping for more of this new hardware for launch and lack of it is a problem.
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They were expecting Win8 sales to do better than they have and that much is obvious, thus they haven't met their own expectations. They were aware of what products the OEMs would release and when they'd release them, and though that has impacted sales negatively, the sale of Win8 standalone upgrades - even with the drop in price - has been poor. This is what I meant by Win8 bombing in the traditional PC space.

In mobile I genuinely think they'll do better, particularly in smartphones. Their marketshare here should double or triple in the coming years. That should be nothing to scoff at, but given their current market share (mid single percentage?), they obviously have a lot of room to grow.

I'm hoping MS learns a thing or two from Android and Google here. Rather than charging up the ass for your software, getting these devices into people's hands by pushing for volume and low pricing would help them tremendously in the long run. There just hasn't been many people waiting in line to buy $700 Atoms nor $600 tablets with keyboards, and who can blame them? $199 Nexus 7 and ~$600 iPads are selling like hotcakes, but rather than attempting to play ball with respect to pricing, MS and its OEMs both have decided to take on Apple in the high end with an ecosystem that's absolutely miniscule in comparison. That's just not likely to work.

If MS and partners drop the prices of their products by ~$100-$200, they'll make big strides in gaining market share. Since most of their products are coming in the second half of 2013, it's still too early to tell whether or not Win8 will be a hit in the tablet/convertible segment.
 
pelo said:
Pen input works well, but the UI is difficult to manage on a small screen and rendering times can be slow on ULV machines, never mind Atoms or Bobcat APUs. The bigger the screen the easier it is to work.
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I’m not a digital artist myself but in looking at the pretty well documented Photoshop experiences there are on places like TabletPCReview.com, Core i5 ULV tablets seem to have enough power to run Photoshop pretty well and generally screen size isn’t an issue on bigger screens like 11.6” that I’ve seen mentioned.

pelo said:
Success or failure of the OS on traditional PCs is judged by the early adoption rate, more so than tablets, smartphones, and hybrids. In this respect Win7 was 5-6x higher than Win8.
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Where are you getting these numbers?

pelo said:
They were expecting Win8 sales to do better than they have and that much is obvious, thus they haven't met their own expectations. They were aware of what products the OEMs would release and when they'd release them, and though that has impacted sales negatively, the sale of Win8 standalone upgrades - even with the drop in price - has been poor. This is what I meant by Win8 bombing in the traditional PC space.
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Paul Thurrott had a follow up article on the Microsoft internal projections story today:
http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/dialing-back-crazy-windows-8
I’m not sure how you know what Microsoft knew of its OEM’s product timeless but clearly OEMs have been running late and indeed OEMs have been changing launch dates for Clover Trail devices quite a bit, there’s still only the Ativ 500 that’s readily available to buy. I don’t think Microsoft was expecting that a month after Windows 8’s launch.

pelo said:
I'm hoping MS learns a thing or two from Android and Google here. Rather than charging up the ass for your software, getting these devices into people's hands by pushing for volume and low pricing would help them tremendously in the long run. There just hasn't been many people waiting in line to buy $700 Atoms nor $600 tablets with keyboards, and who can blame them? $199 Nexus 7 and ~$600 iPads are selling like hotcakes, but rather than attempting to play ball with respect to pricing, MS and its OEMs both have decided to take on Apple in the high end with an ecosystem that's absolutely miniscule in comparison. That's just not likely to work.
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If you’re talking about Windows 8, the ecosystem as a whole is hardly miniscule but of course touch based apps are scarce at the moment but the number is growing at a decent clip and should accelerate as the number of Windows 8/RT devices grows. I would agree that pricing is an issue but comparing a Nexus 7 to something like even a Windows 8 Clover Trail device is a difficult comparison to make on price alone as a Clover Trail device is a fully functioning PC.
 
B00nie said:
The fact remains, nobody asked you!

Good that you recognize tablet and desktop are apples and oranges. Therefore you must also recognize the ultimate failure to merge their user interfaces in a way that serves neither.
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The fact remains that nobody needs to ask me, and nobody asked you if anybody asked me.

Second, oranges and apples may not be comparable, but you can eat them both. Therefore you must recognize that an OS is better when it suits both desktops and tablets equally well. Are we finished with the pseudo-arguing now?
 
heatlesssun said:
I would agree that pricing is an issue but comparing a Nexus 7 to something like even a Windows 8 Clover Trail device is a difficult comparison to make on price alone as a Clover Trail device is a fully functioning PC.
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See my 500T thread :p Fully functioning PC capable of replacing a laptop, desktop, or even an Ultrabook, it isn't. Capable of replacing a netbook? Yes. The Atom's performance isn't going to get any better either, though a driver update should cure some of its ailments. Others, like the CPU throughput, RAM cap, lack of 64-bit compatibility, and reliance on a 3rd party for drivers, is not (and it's not like Intel's graphics drivers have historically been any better here).

I compared it to a Nexus 7 because it's Google's device. Google was a bit smarter than Microsoft in that they picked an OEM, gave them a strict set of guidelines and made the product incredibly cheap in order to give the user the most raw Android experience while making huge inroads with respect to market share. In contrast, Microsoft decided to make the device themselves, price it so its within spitting distance of Apple's latest and greatest (without the performance to match Apple's) and offer a small Metro ecosystem that pales in comparison to either. When entering a new market where you've got little to no foothold, the best idea is to go cheap and establish a substantial market share before delving into the higher end. Microsoft is working backwards here, and as a result sales figures aren't going to look as good.
 
heatlesssun said:
Of course one can especially on a Windows 8 tablet with a pen, plenty of people use Photoshop like this and it's quite convenient.
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They don't also use cheap shit panels for Photoshop Work they tend to use high end x220 cintiq or other wacom tablets.
 
bigdogchris said:
Why do some people always have reasons why we don't like Windows 8, rather than just accepting we don't like it be done?
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Doesn't work that way... You have to like it or prove to others how your wrong opinion is right, which isn't going to happen. You're wrong. You don't like it? You're using it wrong.

Some people don't like Windows 8. Hell, a lot of people don't like it. Personal preference. There are things I don't like about Windows 8. I do use it and I enjoy using it (without a start menu replacement, too). I've seen some lifelong IT professionals that have gone from punch cards to CLI to Windows/Mac/Unix... Even they say that it's messed up. Obviously they don't mind change - they've gone through enough of it.

You can argue various points of Windows 8 for months (and people have on this forum - for months...). Truth is - no one is right. Tablets are great at a lot of things - portability is #1. Desktops can have massive horsepower that a tablet can't touch, and has tools to make it very precise for input. The two really don't mesh together very well (yet) for most things. Sure, I can use a tablet for a lot of things I can use my desktop for. But, some things REQUIRE a desktop and the preciseness of a 1600 DPI mouse on a high resolution, large monitor.

I don't like Breaking Bad, either. People tell me that it's the best show ever, and I should like it... Still, not a fan. Windows is the same way. Some people ARE NOT going to like it. They don't need to prove they don't like it with examples (then their opinion is called out as wrong). I don't care much for the organization for the Start Screen. Yes, I know there are usability studies and such that PROVE it's more efficient and all that jazz, but I still have some problems with it. I'm not using it wrong. I just don't care for it. I can use it, just not in the most efficient way.
 
pelo said:
See my 500T thread :p Fully functioning PC capable of replacing a laptop, desktop, or even an Ultrabook, it isn't. Capable of replacing a netbook? Yes. The Atom's performance isn't going to get any better either, though a driver update should cure some of its ailments. Others, like the CPU throughput, RAM cap, lack of 64-bit compatibility, and reliance on a 3rd party for drivers, is not (and it's not like Intel's graphics drivers have historically been any better here).
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Again I don't know why you are continuing to characterize the performance and capability of a device you've never used. No, Clover Trail devices aren't speed demons but they do provide enough performance I believe for a lot of folks that just have average requirements like being able to access the web using most any browser and plugins, play media, create content in with office automation suites, etc.

No, it's not for PC gaming or encoding videos or other types of intensive processing, but these are more niche activities. A device that one can carry around and use all of a work day on a single charge that only weighs a little over three pounds with a keyboard could have a lot of appeal for those that just need the basics of a PC while also having a decent tablet.
 
heatlesssun said:
No, it's not for PC gaming or encoding videos or other types of intensive processing, but these are more niche activities.
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What about for those who like to watch 1080p videos? or use their WiFi for streaming? or very low settings gaming? or other "niche activities"?

Finally, there’s the state of Desktop performance. In Metro, the 500T shines. Application load times and overall performance are measurably faster than Surface. This is particularly true in twitch games, like Jetpack Joyride. Surface has a noticeable stutter; the Samsung keeps things smooth.

In Desktop mode, responsiveness and performance are great until you actually try to do something. Even small tasks, like simultaneously playing a video file while moving the mouse, lag noticeably. We couldn’t, for example, keep the Task Manager open while playing either of our high end Star Trek encodes. Attempting to manage both windows at once, even with one of them minimized, was too much for the 500T.

Desktop gaming is also out. While the 500T may be theoretically compatible with x86 games, the SGX545 can’t handle anything recent. Even Torchlight, in 640×480 netbook mode, with all details at their lowest values, was barely able to manage a mid-teens frame rate.
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Who’s supposed to want this?

All of the companies that dominate the modern tablet industry have content stockpiles and product ecosystems. Companies like Samsung, that lack such options, have little choice but to double down on hardware capability. Compare the specs on the 500T against Samsung’s own Series 3 NP350V5C, both at $749, and try not to wince. The laptop is 5.5lbs. The 500T is 3.28lbs with its dock attached. If you need something lighter, there are over a dozen Core i3/i5 SKUs in the 2lb – 3.9lb segment, including four that skate under the 3lb mark.

That’s a major problem. As much as Samsung might like to position the system as a tablet with an optional dock, it’s ridiculously underpowered compared to the laptops in its price bracket. The instant-on premise is demolished by network problems, the prospect of doing Real Work is nuked by desktop lag, performance stuttering, and a ludicrously small amount of storage.

If all these issues were resolved, this tablet might be worth $549. That’s a $120 premium over the current crop of high-end 10.1-inch (1024×600) Atom netbooks, which typically use the N2600 (1.6GHz, dual-core) and an SGX545 GPU. Then again, those systems still ship with 2-3 USB ports and 320-500GB of storage.

What would I do? Wait. At the very least, wait and see if Samsung, Intel, and Microsoft can resolve the desktop performance lag and the wireless issues. Wait and see if Samsung does anything about available storage, or even acknowledges the problem. The Ativ gets some things right, but far too much of what’s billed as basic functionality doesn’t work or comes with caveats. Some of these issues very much extend to Surface, which is why I’m not waving it around as the alternative must-have. Some of them, like the network problems, don’t.

If the Ativ is representative of the hardware other PC OEMs are shipping, it’s no wonder that uptake is markedly worse than Windows 7. It’s not that the Ativ 500T is a bad tablet, but it’s eclipsed on every side by better devices at lower price points.
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http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/141317-samsungs-ativ-500t-not-the-tablet-youve-been-waiting-for
 
Not sure what this guy is having issues with. I've noticed that from time to time from a full restart the WiFi can take about a minute or so to connect but that's not the case when the machine is coming out of sleep, that's sort of the point of connected stand by. In fact even Bluetooth connections are kept alive and hitting the keyboard or moving the mouse will wake up the machine, pretty sweet.

As for performance, yes, playing a 1080P video on a secondary screen at full 1080P resolution can cause some mouse hitching and performance isn't perfectly smooth But yes, this is a pretty niche requirement to have full 1080P at native resolution while running a separate on another screen, 720P or windowed playback is much smoother and much more normal in a multitasking situation.
 
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