Gaben confirms Source 2 engine

djsb said:
While that's likely, I certainly hope they threw out their lighting model and started from scratch. It's more or less the same precompiled lighting from Quake and HL1, with little to no flexibility when it comes to dynamic lighting and shadowing. It's just not going to fly in 2012+, both with gamers and level designers.
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Yeah dynamic lighting in the later versions of Source always felt pretty fakey to me. I'd hope Valve realize this and go with a whole new lighting model.
 
socK said:
Afaik, the 360 also hits D3D and has some sort of abstraction layer. Supposedly you can work around it with low level hackery, but MS apparently doesn't like you resorting to that kind of stuff. I guess they're worried about stuff breaking if they ever had to change something hardware wise. Here's something interesting which seems to confirm that alongside some other interesting bits (hint: search draw call): http://www.humus.name/Articles/Persson_CreatingVastGameWorlds.pdf

In their case, it just straight up wasn't a bottleneck for them, even despite the scary numbers. Alongside the driver / API improvements, there are even more tools at your disposal now to reduce it, like the revamped instancing which DICE used to apparently great effect: http://dice.se/wp-content/uploads/GDC11_DX11inBF3_Public.pdf CPU's are only getting nastier and the overhead will continue to get lower. The sooner developers start cutting out the legacy bullshit and take advantage of the modern solutions, the better.
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Exactly I'll be playing BF3 more than HL3 and waiting for Gen4 info not Source2 info that will be a joke engine. ;) Which will probably look like the Wii on steroids...lul
 
teletran8 said:
Exactly I'll be playing BF3 more than HL3 and waiting for Gen4 info not Source2 info that will be a joke engine. ;) Which will probably look like the Wii on steroids...lul
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Troll much? Source is an incredibly flexible engine and has slowly been improved since its inception. When it first came out, it looked incredible - anyone remember when you exit the mines to that large open area, and see the Combine troops marching on the bridge in the distance? There were several scenes like that which made a lasting impression ever since.
 
TwistedAegis said:
Troll much? Source is an incredibly flexible engine and has slowly been improved since its inception. When it first came out, it looked incredible - anyone remember when you exit the mines to that large open area, and see the Combine troops marching on the bridge in the distance? There were several scenes like that which made a lasting impression ever since.
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Half Life 2 and Source looked amazing when they came out. It looked more photo realistic than the majority of games at the time. Obviously, as newer engines came out it started looking dated.

I hope Source 2 will look as good as Source did when it came out while scaling down well with modding tools.
 
Source engine is like your girlfriend: When she dresses up and puts on makeup, she looks really good. But deep down you know there is always Olivia Wilde...
 
I could care less what API it uses. For their sake i hope they can implement on actually interacting or picking up objects. The whole running over an object and having it magically appear in your hand is so last decade.
 
WhiteZero said:
I've been providing historical information in context with the discussion at hand. Perhaps you should go back and try reading?


Valve aren't exclusively PC gaming devs. And this thread isn't just about PC gaming. That is why I posted here and not the PC Gaming subforum.


Entirely possible. But thats mostly likely just wishful thinking from someone with the elitist "PC gaming master race" attitude. Valve aren't fools and realize that their new engine would need to be multi-platform capable. Especially since they'll surely want to license out the engine, as they did with Source. Valve also won't write the engine exclusively for Linux (I assume you were implying) because, again, they are fully aware of their market (Steam Hardware Survey anyone?).

I'm not a huge fan of consoles either. But I'm not so delusional as to think they are irrelevant or going away any time soon. You're in denial if you think otherwise.
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could be you need to review the replies to your own comments, not me. explain to us again what makes these hardware platforms relevant to this discussion, maybe I'm just being slow. what exactly have they done with orangebox since release? though I've seen a beta client appear on ubuntu.

compared to the countless man hours being put into real source variants, sorry no I was just trying to stay on topic but thanks for playing. trying to stay relevant to the discussion doesn't make me some kind of platform bigot, who's the one derailing the thread now?
 
Sixthsense said:
I could care less what API it uses. For their sake i hope they can implement on actually interacting or picking up objects. The whole running over an object and having it magically appear in your hand is so last decade.
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Having that in a game needs a gameplay reason, i.e In Dead Island picking something up is a bit of a risk because you could get attacked while picking it up, which creates anticipation which fits the mood of the game.

Obviously if Half-Life goes back to it's horror type of thingo then that might be a good idea but it might also slow down the gameplay.

They could have done picking up objects with hands when the first games came out, but if there is no reason to do that and it makes the gameplay bad then why do it?
 
Bobthecoolguy said:
They could have done picking up objects with hands when the first games came out, but if there is no reason to do that and it makes the gameplay bad then why do it?
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Very true. If there isn't a good gameplay reason for it, that'd be one of those design decisions that you think is kinda cool the first time, but gets incredibly annoying after the 10th.

HL has never been about "realism"... it's about fun, thankfully. That's why they ditched the two weapon limit for HL2.
 
Doesn't Portal1/2 and TF1/2 have more diveres gameplay than HL1/2. Seems to me thatValve busted their nut along time ago, now they have no ideas for HL3.

Gabe :Yeah

that doesnt sound so exciting to anyone else does it? Why? Cuz its not...sadly. Gabe would give a more exciting answer if you asked him if he likes cheeseburgers, ya know...he could give a rats patoonya about new engine...but why so un enthiusiastic? thats my question...sound s like nop more good ideas...
 
Sixthsense said:
I could care less what API it uses. For their sake i hope they can implement on actually interacting or picking up objects. The whole running over an object and having it magically appear in your hand is so last decade.
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It's a game. Does it really matter whether you press E or not?
 
wonderfield said:
It's a game. Does it really matter whether you press E or not?
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What's the point of working on a new engine then? Why bother moving forward when things are moving backwards? With the notion of "everything is ok, give us more shiny" might as well just access moddb for SP campaigns for HL2. God forbid i ask for seamless loading between different areas , because everything is fine and dandy in HL2
 
I'm uncertain how needing to press a key/button to perform an action is an advancement from not needing to press a key/button to perform the same action.
 
Last I heard, people were arguing that ArmA 2 sucked because you had to actually like, get down and pick up an item or look in a box to get items. Now we're at "items are picked up too easily"?

Really?
 
MavericK96 said:
Last I heard, people were arguing that ArmA 2 sucked because you had to actually like, get down and pick up an item or look in a box to get items. Now we're at "items are picked up too easily"?

Really?
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It works fine in a game like Amnesia, but not really for a fast paced FPS. HL and HL2 both featured object manipulation to add interactivity and tension, but there was no need to do it for every single pick up.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
It works fine in a game like Amnesia, but not really for a fast paced FPS. HL and HL2 both featured object manipulation to add interactivity and tension, but there was no need to do it for every single pick up.
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Yes, there is a fine line between realistic and fun. What Sixthsense was complaining about with item pickup has nothing to do with the engine, but game design.
 
In any case, object interactivity is a feature of a game, not the underlying engine. I personally don't give half a crap about HL3. Valve's dev commentary in HL2+episodes made it pretty clear that, based on focus group feedback, they're more interested in serving an interactive movie than serving up an actual game; and unless that changes the only value the game will hold for me is the texture/model assets and the engine it runs on. Fingers crossed for the best.

edit: beaten :|
 
WhiteZero said:
Yes, there is a fine line between realistic and fun. What Sixthsense was complaining about with item pickup has nothing to do with the engine, but game design.
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It just sounds like he wants a simulation, not a game. He should look into simulations if he wants a simulation.

Not that I am saying a game can't have the 'actually pick up objects' feature but that in some games it would be a hinderance to the gameplay.

Sixthsense said:
What's the point of working on a new engine then? Why bother moving forward when things are moving backwards? With the notion of "everything is ok, give us more shiny" might as well just access moddb for SP campaigns for HL2. God forbid i ask for seamless loading between different areas , because everything is fine and dandy in HL2
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You are now talking about two different issues, one is a technical limitation and feature and the other is a specifically ignored and not implemented design feature. Please understand the difference.

You need to increase your understanding of games before making comments like these.
 
I highly recommend that anyone who wants highly-realistic interactions in story-based first person shooters to play through (or try to play through) Trespasser. The best way to re-align a person's perception about what gaming is all about is to play a game that was so wrapped up in realism and the technologies that drove it that it completely forgot it was a game.
 
Bobthecoolguy said:
It just sounds like he wants a simulation, not a game. He should look into simulations if he wants a simulation.

Not that I am saying a game can't have the 'actually pick up objects' feature but that in some games it would be a hinderance to the gameplay.



You are now talking about two different issues, one is a technical limitation and feature and the other is a specifically ignored and not implemented design feature. Please understand the difference.

You need to increase your understanding of games before making comments like these.
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Yes I want a simulation..:p:rolleyes: I do understand the difference thank you :rolleyes:

Please go back and play Half Life, not too sure if you're serious or trolling mr_I_just_finished_halflife_1_in_2011. I would love to hear your comments in regards what should be implemented in HL3. I'm sure you had plenty of time to make some assesments (since 2011) to give some quality feedback on what should be done :p:rolleyes::p
 
Sixthsense said:
Please go back and play Half Life, not too sure if you're serious or trolling mr_I_just_finished_halflife_1_in_2011. I would love to hear your comments in regards what should be implemented in HL3. I'm sure you had plenty of time to make some assesments (since 2011) to give some quality feedback on what should be done :p:rolleyes::p
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You still have not made a compelling argument for why one should have to sit through a "pick up gun" animation in HL (something that could easily be implemented into HL2 with a mod if you want that kind of thing). How does that improve the gameplay? How does that make it more fun?
 
drako said:
You still have not made a compelling argument for why one should have to sit through a "pick up gun" animation in HL (something that could easily be implemented into HL2 with a mod if you want that kind of thing). How does that improve the gameplay? How does that make it more fun?
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Why should I have to do homework for others? Look around you, more or less the past 3 years games have been this way (with the exception of Half Life obviously) The concept of running over an item is dated and cheesy
 
Sixthsense said:
Why should I have to do homework for others? Look around you, more or less the past 3 years games have been this way (with the exception of Half Life obviously) The concept of running over an item is dated and cheesy
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Uh-huh. And yet the general consensus is that games, particularly FPS games, have been going down in quality since HL2 was released.

And as a matter of fact, the most recent FPS game I've played, Borderlands 2, did not require you to press a key to pick up ammo and money, and that was considered an improvement over the first game by almost everyone.
 
wonderfield said:
I highly recommend that anyone who wants highly-realistic interactions in story-based first person shooters to play through (or try to play through) Trespasser. The best way to re-align a person's perception about what gaming is all about is to play a game that was so wrapped up in realism and the technologies that drove it that it completely forgot it was a game.
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I will be checking this out. thanks!
 
I just want to add my 2 cents to some of this:

1) I dont think the next gen of consoles will be as powerful for their time as the previous generation was for their time. The economy Just isnt quite there for them to blow things out of proportions with loss per system and r&d. Look at nintendo. The base system is selling for 299. I know a portion of that is going for the new controller, but its been estimate that system is around 1.5 to 2x as powerful.
2) A portion of this power will be used just for the jump from 720p 30fps to 1080p 30fps and moreso if jumping from 30fps to 60fps. Remember just the jump from 720p to 1080p is double the pixels count and 30 to 60 is double the frames . So just between 720 to 1080 and 30 to 60, your using around 4x performance requirement.
3) To me and many others, going from 480i/p sd to 720p is a big jump, but going from 720p to 1080p is not as big. Take video, which generally has the best "graphics available" with almost ulimited details, objects, many people have a hard time telling the difference. you have to have a pretty big set and sit a distance away to notice.
4) while cost, simplicity of using a single unified archecture, and programming closer to the metal, this doesnt simply beat raw power and versatility. being a console means often times sacrificing raw power and versatility, to meet the demands of the console market. Ex: n64 cartridge vs cd, PSX 3d design vs saturn 2d design with tacked on 3d. Most customers dont want a big ass tower case sitting next to their dvd player/tv. hell most people dont like big Monitor speakers or full tower speakers.

Due to aforemention resons, i see an increase in graphics for next gen, but not as much as people are expecting, unlike the previous 3 gens which were close to matching or beating the pc market. If my memory is correct 3dfx voodoo 1 when it came out was estimated to be about 10% more powerful then the n64 which was released around 6 months earlier. Pound for pound consoles are a great deal for their first few years.
 
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Sixthsense said:
Yes I want a simulation..:p:rolleyes: I do understand the difference thank you :rolleyes:

Please go back and play Half Life, not too sure if you're serious or trolling mr_I_just_finished_halflife_1_in_2011. I would love to hear your comments in regards what should be implemented in HL3. I'm sure you had plenty of time to make some assesments (since 2011) to give some quality feedback on what should be done :p:rolleyes::p
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You are missing my point completely. There would need to be a reason for Valve to change the gameplay like that. I am not saying "No way! Valve better not do it or I'll hate Valve forever!" I am saying "Valve won't add things just to make the game more realistic and you should adjust you expectations for that and also understand why they might not put it in".

I don't see why me playing Half Life 1 in 2011 has anything to do with this discussion though, also why did you use underscores there?
 
Bobthecoolguy said:
I don't see why me playing Half Life 1 in 2011 has anything to do with this discussion though, also why did you use underscores there?
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Sixthsense probably played Half-Life when it first came out. Not only does that make him cooler than you, but it obviously means he understands the game better than you. After all, he's had an extra 13 years to sit and stew about everything that was right and wrong about the game.

Really... why is this whole debate even taking place in this thread? The necessity to press a button before picking an object up has absolutely nothing to do with a game engine.
 
Raudulfr said:
I'm sure Hammer Legion Members think it's going to be better than Frostbite 2 or CryEngine 3.
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arnt they just glorified terrain editors you chuck models onto though?

btw try doom 3 with sikkmod and manual item pickup, really reduces the ammo you carry because you will miss some and you end up using your flashlight alot more to search for ammo in the dark, works for that game really well. Usually find you have fuck all ammo and end up using all your guns a lot more, still using pistol to save ammo on those lost souls later on in the game.
 
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well all maps have a single water level, and you just raise the terrain and paint it accordingly, and when it looks somewhat real you just chuck pre made models of vegetation & buildings into your terrain, there is nothing really unique about level construction in that sense its all just layout. I have never mapped with those engines personally but i have seen tutorials on them and that's all i can make of those engines, not like engines of old where the mapper did the buildings personally rather than with canned models.
 
You can make whatever you want, what is the problem again? Learn to model or pair with someone who does if you need new artwork.
 
model clipping always feels wonky and has tons of problems like the elder scroll games, real world geometry always feels so much better navigating, each to their own ;)
 
you say that like it's an inherent aspect of every engine and model ever...
 
nothing wrong with any way you make a map, if a terrain editor with models works that is great, since it take s a ton of work off the mappers. Tribes, torque engine was like that. Making maps in games is about 2 things primarily, 1 making it easy enough to generate the map in a reasonable amount of time, this is where models, terrain editors, prefabs and everything else come in, 2 making a map run smooth, IE working with the engine to get the most FPS out of a given map. Each map editor / engine combo is the combination of those 2 things in some balance. And given those circumstances an engines style or art direction is usually developed based on how easy it is to do certain things.

I remember back in HL1 I made a map and wanted to do some basic terrain, AFAIK there was no good way to do it, I used vertex manipulation and a grid of triangles I essentially hand made, that was stupid and a huge waste of time, not to mention the clipping night mare, had to use custom compilers. Sure it took a ton of time / skill to pull it all off but I would take a terrain editor any day over that junk ever again.

Valves displacement maps allow more but really are not much better. You can see the result in most source games. People still do not like open maps like they do in lots of other games because its a pain in the ass to make them well.

I really do not think valve can go another round with out a good terrain generator / editor, even if it is just a system that automatically generates grids of displacements.
 
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