heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
I understand this perfectly. My point is that if one wants Windows 7 just use Windows 7 if Windows 8 isn't fitting the need.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Hate Metro? Get Classic Shell
- Thread starter Ocellaris
- Start date
I understand this perfectly. My point is that if one wants Windows 7 just use Windows 7 if Windows 8 isn't fitting the need.
Not wanting the Win8 start menu does not equal wanting Win7. I'll take all of the under the hood changes and reject the start menu.
Doesn't seem bad, just got to get used to a few things, like FULL SCREEN ACCOUNTS MENU. Some things aren't windowed but full screen.
But I'm willing to bet in the upcoming months this OS will be smoothed out, maybe they will bring back the start menu in an SP update if there is enough outcry for it.
BTW I am using startisback, and so far soo good. I haven't made a 2nd account yet for a family member to use
But I'm willing to bet in the upcoming months this OS will be smoothed out, maybe they will bring back the start menu in an SP update if there is enough outcry for it.
BTW I am using startisback, and so far soo good. I haven't made a 2nd account yet for a family member to use
I know I am going to get flamed but I kinda like the new ui. I haven't been using the start menu that much since win 7. I switched to pinning the most frequent stuff and keyboard shortcuts for the rest.
Also there is a bit of a learning curve. I can see how people are frustrated though. Forcing people to quit is one way to drive adoption. That is unless there is a fairly easy workaround.
Also there is a bit of a learning curve. I can see how people are frustrated though. Forcing people to quit is one way to drive adoption. That is unless there is a fairly easy workaround.
So one minute you're saying:
Windows 8 is so GR8T!!1OMGZ
Windows 8 is more than just Metro
Windows 8 is a 'superior' OS
Yet now you're saying people should stick with Windows 7 because they want a start menu? What happened to 'Windows 8 is a superior OS'?
If you're telling people to just use Windows 7 if they want a start menu then you're pretty much admitting that Windows 8 is NOT superior at all and only has Metro going for it.
Good to know.
Actually, have been using StartIsBack for a few days. I think the key is that it changes the way you use Metro. Metro is super cool as type to search gets to some deeper level stuff much faster...
Still... things like way better multi-monitor support (I'm using two of the 1440p 27" as sidecars to a HP ZR30w which taxed Windows 7), native drivers, SMB 3.0... Real Hyper-V on Windows 8... big improvements under the hood even when just using the desktop. Oh and it boots faster if you care about that kinda thing (only rebooting for software updates.)
Yeah, as in I don't have to use it.
The default selection is apps, even when there are matches elsewhere. This is a major annoyance.
That's what I need. I probably rebooted my system at work 10 times yesterday booting between Win2008 and WinPE 4.0.
JayteeBates
[H]ard|Poof
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2007
- Messages
- 5,104
I don't mind the underpinnings of 8 - just hate the fugly interface they glued on top. So yes return to 7 visually with new 8 engine underneath. How it should have been (or at least the option to have it that way.
I'm not saying Windows 8 is crap, there are improvements, sure. They're just not big enough to warrant abandoning Windows 7, especially when you have to deal with Metro.
Because Metro on the desktop is an abomination.
Cool, now all I need is a way to replace those metro only control panel items such as customise PC and all my complaints about 8 are just about gone.
That' probably not even possible, but I guess you don't use them all that often.
I have to admit, beyond the start menu, most of the 'removed features' on that XPwasmyidea list were things i'd never realised were there in the first place.
That' probably not even possible, but I guess you don't use them all that often.
I have to admit, beyond the start menu, most of the 'removed features' on that XPwasmyidea list were things i'd never realised were there in the first place.
dr.stevil
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 9,266
I'm actually going to give windows 8 another shot with some of these start menu replacements. I also saw a write up how to disable the ribbon in explorer aswell, so it's a win win IMO. All the 'under the hood' improvements of windows 8 without the parts that suck.
Raxiel, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before a developer comes up with something that centralizes all the settings in one place (if it hasn't been done already)
Raxiel, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before a developer comes up with something that centralizes all the settings in one place (if it hasn't been done already)
TechLarry
RIP [H] Brother - June 1, 2022
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2005
- Messages
- 30,481
Sure. By default, in Classic Shell, you shift-click on the Orb and Whoop - Thereitis.
TechLarry
RIP [H] Brother - June 1, 2022
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2005
- Messages
- 30,481
The complaints aren't about the underlying OS in Windows 8. It's pretty nice, and I like a lot of the improvements.
It's the thin layer of Baby Shit you have to wade through to get to it that's the problem.
Classic Shell is the Diaper that fixes the problem
TechLarry
RIP [H] Brother - June 1, 2022
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2005
- Messages
- 30,481
Thanks !
Same here, although I think I'll give the ribbon a chance - at least for a while. I'm not a big fan of them but they do seem to be poping up everywhere, and I did prefer the search UI over 7's (Although neither of them compares to XP's advanced search)
I'd hope so too, although if anything were to be locked down to prevent other software making changes it'd be system settings. Fingers crossed I'm wrong.
The complaints aren't about the underlying OS in Windows 8. It's pretty nice, and I like a lot of the improvements.
It's the thin layer of Baby Shit you have to wade through to get to it that's the problem.
Classic Shell is the Diaper that fixes the problem
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
Show me one place I ever said that Windows 8 was great or that anyone should just upgrade. As a person who spends a lot of time on Window's tablets Windows 8 works very well for my needs, I appreciate the hybrid nature because it is exactly how I've used for many years. I've been as reasonable as anyone here discussing in specific terms both the strengths and weaknesses of Windows 8, I don't do hype. I've said plenty of times that if Windows 8 doesn't suit one's needs then don't upgrade.
I have to ask, does anyone really even use the start menu? I think most people who supposedly miss it do not even use it.
I have not since Windows XP. Vista's compelling feature was the start menu search and I have not used the start menu since. Start menu search is still in 8, press Windows key and start typing.
I have not really found much advantage to the modern UI apps over their desktop or web equivalents other than say something like Netflix, I am less prone to distraction since it is full screen.
I have not since Windows XP. Vista's compelling feature was the start menu search and I have not used the start menu since. Start menu search is still in 8, press Windows key and start typing.
I have not really found much advantage to the modern UI apps over their desktop or web equivalents other than say something like Netflix, I am less prone to distraction since it is full screen.
Ocellaris
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2008
- Messages
- 19,077
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, you've regaled us with stories of how much you like Win8, especially on tablets. Now you want to say that you never said that Windows 8 is great? (gigantic)
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
A strong defense can often be seen as a reccomendation.
Or maybe I'm just familiar with Winders 8 after 14 months of dally use and learning about it and I simply call out hype and subjective views purported as facts.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, you've regaled us with stories of how much you like Win8, especially on tablets. Now you want to say that you never said that Windows 8 is great? (gigantic)
It's called being objective. I have a certain perspective of Windows 8 that I know isn't a mainstream view of Windows because so few people use Windows across form factors and input methods like I do and have for a long time, years before any of us heard of Windows 8. I've said repeatedly that I understand why a lot of traditional PC device users may not like Windows 8 because clearly the UI and Metro apps are targeted for touch and tablets. One of my main points has been, at least in my experience, is that the new UI and Metro apps haven't really changed the desktop or keyboard and mouse efficiency within desktop apps.
Yes I like Windows 8 and I think others will too, especially those who use it in the hybrid nature for which it was designed. I see it as an evolution of Windows that is in better alignment with consumer computing that is becoming evermore tablet, touch and lightweight app centric while retaining the traditional desktop. It's not at all a perfect or elegant fusion, but it is a functional if you one master the UI. I don't think this constitutes calling Windows 8 great, merely a rational view of the product with which many would agree.
No flame from me, everyone is to their own, and I respect not everyone uses windows like me.
eg. I rarely search and I use quick launch a lot, and start menu for most of the rest, if something I use isnt on the start menu and quick launch or if I decide I want to pin it I then pin to the start menu.
I dont pin anything to the taskbar (hate that function).
For the way I use windows, most common tasks either require extra clicks, or extra movement of the mouse or both. eg. to close metro apps a window has to be dragged to the bottom, thats a lot more mouse movement than clicking the top right corner. Scrolling side to side can be problematic if you come across a scroll box inside the app, no easy snap to make windows take 50/50 of screen each, and there is much more listed in the link I posted.
SMB 3.0 is on windows 7 as a hotfix/
driver updates, hyper-v multi monitor all could have been added to win7 but obviously microsoft didnt so win8 was more marketable.
These are a few good things about windows8, but none of those apply to me .
BurntToast
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2003
- Messages
- 3,677
I do not find the UI of Windows 8 to be productive at all. But since I got it for $15 and with a modded start menu it is basically Windows 7, my thinking is that I might as well stay with it since it's new. Boot up is a little faster, maybe there are a few other things in the back-end that are subtle improvements as well?
Everyone knows that Windows 8 was not designed to be more productive than Windows 7 from the stand point of a desktop user. It is just a way to get their base familiar with the Windows Metro UI so that when it comes time to decide on a tablet, that their base will instantly feel at home with the Slate. Where as with the iPad, it would require some getting used to.
Everyone knows that Windows 8 was not designed to be more productive than Windows 7 from the stand point of a desktop user. It is just a way to get their base familiar with the Windows Metro UI so that when it comes time to decide on a tablet, that their base will instantly feel at home with the Slate. Where as with the iPad, it would require some getting used to.
PornoSatan
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2004
- Messages
- 3,493
StartIsBack is probably best since it's using native code already in Windows 8 to restore functionality. It's basically the real start button with a couple hacks added in to re-enable it.
The prime directive of Windows 8 was to begin the process of corralling ALL windows based devices - not just mobile - into an app store paradigm, and if possible breathe life into the stillborn mobile offerings by leveraging the built up good will of the Windows desktop installed base, all for the intent of that sweet 30% app tax going forward. All the juice in their 5-10+ year plan is in Metro apps.
That's why its no coincidence that Windows 8 has the cheapest upgrade pricing of any new Windows rev in history. That also helps in understanding why Metro apps are duplicating functionality that is working better in their browser based incarnations - MS makes no money and has no interest in merely acting as a conduit to nicely optimized websites. "Its the Apps, dummy."
Last edited:
I use the start menu in 7 for the search box. And unless they made significant changes that no one has mentioned between the last beta and release, and the way search works on the start screen is not the same as the old start menu.
It might seem like a trivial thing, but the fact is that most people don't actually use their OS all that much, it's just an environment to let them run the programs they want to. The start menu is the way I (and from the complaints it seems many others) get to any non-pinned programs so its my biggest interaction with the OS. That focus is what makes such apparently small differences draw so much ire.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
Mixing the desktop and Metro does add some complexity to the UI. If one is running just desktop apps which a lot of people around here are saying navigation in that case shouldn't be much different.
In regards to common tasks taking more steps or mouse movement, I can't think of any common tasks, I guess the power menu is one but that's not common in my case, that take any more mouse clicks. There is more mouse movement in the Start Screen but it requires less accuracy. Metro app behavior with the mouse can be inconsistent.
Not to rain on your parade but those of us that are power users and don't use keyboard short cuts for the most part find Windows 8 a huge nuisance as it does require more mouse clicks to find the necessary tools...if you don't know what I'm talking about then perhaps your not a as much of a power user as thought. Whether you us a keyboard or mouse newer UI's should not slow you down, and in that respect I think MS regressed forcing us to use Metro.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
Most of the stuff that a power user would need access to, Control Panel, etc. are in the Power Menu, Windows Key - X or right click in the lower left corner where the Start Menu hot corner is. Also things like Recents can be put in the File Explorer favorites.
It is different but I've not found much that requires more clicks if you know how to use the new UI.
So this power menu I have to go right exactly to the bottom right, much small area to clock on than the old start orb, in addition there is many things not on that menu that I would need such as a way to start apps, finally windows +X is harder than just windows key.
One thing I noticed is I accept some people will prefer windows 8 UI, maybe they didnt like windows 7 and older UI so much as I do. But its interesting those that like windows 8 refuse to accept its inferior in certian areas. Windows 8 seems to be selling on the novelty factor that metro is something new to play with, the same way new iphones sell.
officermartinez
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2006
- Messages
- 2,012
I've played around with Windows 8 and it's not too terrible actually. However, after trying out different "start menu" type apps, I like the Power Shell one the best.. I am sticking with it!
lol, power users don't use Control Panel....
QFT. Command line, WTF!
soulesschild
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2007
- Messages
- 6,176
I like the Metro UI for what it is. I hardly every use it though since I have desktop shortcuts and I'm pretty familiar with all the windows key + HOTKEY functions so I can navigate around win 8 pretty quickly.
Good god does powershell look terrible in terms of UI. So ugly :X
Also, power users that don't use kb keys and prefer to click? I think you are not a power user in my book
Good god does powershell look terrible in terms of UI. So ugly :X
Also, power users that don't use kb keys and prefer to click? I think you are not a power user in my book