TheWarZ Devs - Are They Nuts, Or What!?

This was just announced, latest update, but it's this guy's unbelievable gall and propensity for bullshit that blows my mind.

From the forums:

Hey guys and girls !

So today we've updated our anticheat engine - okay "updated" is a wrong word - we've been updating it non stop for a last few weeks, today we just turn on ban engine

Over last few weeks we've been gathering information about cheats and hacks being used and being perfecting our detection system. Goal was to make system with potentially zero false positives. today we've decided we're at state when we can turn this system on and ban all those who're abusing game.

So let me go over all hack/cheat types and tell you how we address them :

1) ESP/ wallhacks.
While those being less game ruining than others, they're hardest to detect. Creators ( okay - one of the creators, others didn't even bothered to think what they're doing ) of those cheats are pretty clever guys, so it was a challnge to create system that detects them. We've started wuith system that gave us 95% false positive results, and at the end we come up with soluton that gives us only 15% of false positive results. Yet it still to high to allow system to decide who deserves ban - so we're feeding iformation from the system to real human operators, who will analyze data and logs and will decide if person deserve ban.

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This has to be one of the more stupid ****ing methods I've ever heard in 20 years of gaming, for more reasons than I'm going to bother to mention. This idiot is going to make a mess of this game, hands-down.

Human error, human attitudes, on top of a 15% false positive that might screw you over anyway, and then you'll have to... what... deal with their "customer service" by contacting them directly?

Who knows, since it's not even mentioned, which is just more idiocy.

2) Stats modification
Stupid, stupid hacks. Number one only few not exactly important stats are calculated on client, so by hacking those you won't get much of the advantage. More important - our system right now have 0% false positive on those types of cheats. Means - try to use it - you'll get automated BAN.

3) Ghost mode, engine exploits, getting inside geometry, etc.
Once again - we're detecting those hacks, and automatically ban users. Yet - each ban case is alos sent to operators for review.


How we ban ?
First time we've detected you're cheating in a game, we'll give you 24-72 hours ban. After that time you'll be able to play game. Second time you'll try to use hacks - you'll be banned permanently. No refunds. BTW technically at least in USA this is also criminal offense - but clearly we won't be going after each person who's hacking unless they'll be persistent

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The stupidity of this guy never ceases to amaze me.

No, what's illegal is violating Consumer Rights, which would mean keeping someone from using a product they've paid to own/use, and this idiot needs to leave American law to ****ing Americans.

If they even try to pull that shit, they'll be finding themselves faced with more Class Action lawsuits then he can shake a ****ing stick at... what a moron.

Hacking is "criminal offense"? What ****ing planet is this guy from? It's cheap scare tactics, I'm supposing he thinks will work because he's assuming the majority of TWZ fan base are children and don't know actual law.

My biggest problem with all this is that spending time on hacks are delaying release of the game features we've promised. For example clans/friends have been delayed for more than a week. YET, we firmly believe that hackers issue must be addressed first.

Sergey Titov
Executive Producer
The War Z

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More excuses from a dev team that's known for their less-than-respectable work ethic, horrible attitudes shown blatantly to the public and a level of laziness and immaturity second-to-none (for anyone that knows their history, and has kept up with TWZ debacles that have occurred in recent times.

This guy needs to stop smoking what ever is killing his brain cells, and see a psychiatrist for his obviously narcissistic personality disorder and delusions, because he's out of his ****ing mind on all fronts. He's so ignorant personally, he doesn't even realize that people see right through his bullshit, notice his laziness and his blatantly false and contradictory statements.

Troglodyte... sorry, but this guy is seriously pissing me off recently and, at my age and just being who I am, I've no tolerance for stupidity or bullshit. Unbelievable.

Honestly, the guy continues to be more and more out of control, and if people don't start laying into this fucker, he's going to cause even more problems.

FYI - the company's response to one person who asked for a refund a week or so ago was, "Here's your refund. Sorry if we offended your delicate sensibilities". Holy shit... could you be more unprofessional? Yes, actually, because it was in response to the customer's response of being insulted because Sergey outright called certain gamers "faggots", because he continually getting killed and was continually blaming hackers.

You guys know that though, for those following the "official" thread.

Insulting someone with the "delicate sensibilities" comment, like smart-mouth fucks. I have an image of the response.

So good luck if you ever want a refund... or ever are accused falsely of hacking.

Hammerpoint Interactive, needs to step-up with and change their attitude before they find themselves in a world of shit.

Why do I get the feeling you are one of the people they are targeting with their anti-cheat? The only people I have ever seen complain about anti-cheat are those who want to cheat, and you went above and beyond with your complaining.

darkstarcow said:

Why do I get the feeling you are one of the people they are targeting with their anti-cheat? The only people I have ever seen complain about anti-cheat are those who want to cheat, and you went above and beyond with your complaining.

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lol that's exactly that I was thinking while reading that tirade

Guess it depends on how accurate the system really is. If it starts banning tons of legit users, it's retarded. If it actually works...great.

Though it is pretty lulzy saying something like "hacking is a criminal offense"...

Probably not a criminal offence (unless there's some currency involved or you do things to access private information or them/others). But they are proabably well within their rights to dissallow someone access for violating the ToS, like removing someone from a cinema who's drunk.

This game seems like total crap from everything i've heard. Probably not much to worry about... Though people do seem to like crappy games...

Man, you guys need to stop with the ridiculous snap judgments.

No, I'm one of "those people" who've been griefed by hackers constantly and I'd rather NOT have there be a chance of honest people, SUCH as myself, being at the whims of a 15% false positive chance and/or human error and attitudes.

I'm 38 friggin' years old. No, I'm not angry because I'm one of the people this would be "targeting". Honestly, the immature snap judgments around here need to stop.

Did you actually read my damn responses? Obviously, I'm out for the protection for innocent people, such as myself, and not relying on "maybe not being banned accidentally" by human buffoonery.

These devs are totally out of control, and these are some of the more ridiculous methods and statements I've heard from anyone regarding these issues.

But, it's a little difficult to help others see the foolishness of the dev's apparent mental illness, when I'm being accused of being one those the anti-cheat is aimed at... absolutely ridiculous.

Well, there it is anyway...

The OP and subsequent post seem like major over-reactions. I am inclined to agree, that, somehow the poster feels like the way they want to play the game will be hampered. Most likely fears they won't be able to hack.

You are blowing this WAY out of proportion. The only thing he real seems guilty of is ignorance of American law, but your rant sounds like you were describing child molesters. Christ dude, relax. At least they are being open and honest about whats going on.

v0rtic3s said:

Man, you guys need to stop with the ridiculous snap judgments.

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Pot, meet kettle.

my first impression...butthurt cheater

sorry OP, that's really what it seems like, you need to think about the difference between form and substance

I get the substance of your tirade, but the form is turning me off

v0rtic3s said:

Man, you guys need to stop with the ridiculous snap judgments.

No, I'm one of "those people" who've been griefed by hackers constantly and I'd rather NOT have there be a chance of honest people, SUCH as myself, being at the whims of a 15% false positive chance and/or human error and attitudes.

I'm 38 friggin' years old. No, I'm not angry because I'm one of the people this would be "targeting". Honestly, the immature snap judgments around here need to stop.

Did you actually read my damn responses? Obviously, I'm out for the protection for innocent people, such as myself, and not relying on "maybe not being banned accidentally" by human buffoonery.

These devs are totally out of control, and these are some of the more ridiculous methods and statements I've heard from anyone regarding these issues.

But, it's a little difficult to help others see the foolishness of the dev's apparent mental illness, when I'm being accused of being one those the anti-cheat is aimed at... absolutely ridiculous.

Well, there it is anyway...

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If you're not doing anything even remotely questionable then why are you worried?

The only snap judgment here is from you, so ya I agree they need to stop starting with you.

If you want to be pissed at someone be pissed at the cheaters and hack creators who are ruining your game experience.

v0rtic3s said:

Man, you guys need to stop with the ridiculous snap judgments.

No, I'm one of "those people" who've been griefed by hackers constantly and I'd rather NOT have there be a chance of honest people, SUCH as myself, being at the whims of a 15% false positive chance and/or human error and attitudes.

I'm 38 friggin' years old. No, I'm not angry because I'm one of the people this would be "targeting". Honestly, the immature snap judgments around here need to stop.

Did you actually read my damn responses? Obviously, I'm out for the protection for innocent people, such as myself, and not relying on "maybe not being banned accidentally" by human buffoonery.

These devs are totally out of control, and these are some of the more ridiculous methods and statements I've heard from anyone regarding these issues.

But, it's a little difficult to help others see the foolishness of the dev's apparent mental illness, when I'm being accused of being one those the anti-cheat is aimed at... absolutely ridiculous.

Well, there it is anyway...

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Why do you assume innocent people will get banned?

Maybe I find your post and judgements ridiculous.

ocellaris said:

Why do you assume innocent people will get banned?

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From what I understand, he's concern about the human factor. There are weaknesses there in a sense that, a computer doesn't wake up on the wrong side of the bed or go to office with a pissy attitude that day. The dev admitted that there's a chance innocent users will get tagged and sent to the mercy of the human who will make the final call. In other words, you are depending on these people being competent in their job all the time.

The only problem is its hard to find a perfect solution because computer could get things wrong too which is why you need a human in the process, but at the same time the human factor isn't perfect either.

Maybe a better solution is to have each case being reviewed by more than one person, but I'm not sure how many MMO actually does this.

posts like this amuse me.

first off, the OP sounds like a butthurt cheater

secondly, when you buy/pay monthy for a MMO, you agree to their EULA, that EULA states that they basically reserve the right to remove your access to their service if they deem it necessary. so in other words, you arent entitled to shit all, you agreed to their contract, if you violate it you get burned, there is nothing illegal about that.

Hornet said:

From what I understand, he's concern about the human factor. There are weaknesses there in a sense that, a computer doesn't wake up on the wrong side of the bed or go to office with a pissy attitude that day. The dev admitted that there's a chance innocent users will get tagged and sent to the mercy of the human who will make the final call. In other words, you are depending on these people being competent in their job all the time.

The only problem is its hard to find a perfect solution because computer could get things wrong too which is why you need a human in the process, but at the same time the human factor isn't perfect either.

Maybe a better solution is to have each case being reviewed by more than one person, but I'm not sure how many MMO actually does this.

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I suspect having a few accidental bans is still an improvement over playing with cheaters which happens in many games now. Then human factor is always present since there will always be things to exploit.

Glad to see they're cracking down on cheaters.

I get where he's coming from, the dev really doesn't have much professionalism when it comes to communicating. but yeah, nothing to blow a lid over, I'm sure the people who warrent a ban will far exceed the ones who won't


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Wow, upset over an anti-cheat in a game? WTF? And you call something, "the most stupid f*** method I've ever seen"...when there is no method outlined? Have a beer or a doobie or something and calm down.

Fuck cheaters. They ruined dayZ for me. I don't want this game ruined by them too.

I don't see a problem with it

I would also say if it works, thats fine. They put a layer of human intuition into it by saying there will be people looking over each accused ban/cheat. I don't know what more they can do if they have people looking over what the computers/software is saying. Is it perfect? Probably not but I'd say its as good as you'll ever get to perfection. It could be worse. They could not even have human eyes looking into each ban offense before making the final decision.

As someone above said when you sign up you accept their rules. If you don't like it then don't play. Simple as that.

Uh, people are seriously, again, missing the point.

The problem is NOT the anti-cheat system - the problem is that they're leaving a 15% "false positive" chance for innocent people to be banned, and putting the rest of the decision in the hands of completely incompetent people.

Do you get it now? Or does absolutely everyone completely fail in reading comprehension these days?

THAT'S what I have a problem with - that they don't work harder to lower the 15% "false positive" number, instead of working harder on it.

You don't have a problem with that?

Hornet said:

From what I understand, he's concern about the human factor. There are weaknesses there in a sense that, a computer doesn't wake up on the wrong side of the bed or go to office with a pissy attitude that day. The dev admitted that there's a chance innocent users will get tagged and sent to the mercy of the human who will make the final call. In other words, you are depending on these people being competent in their job all the time.

The only problem is its hard to find a perfect solution because computer could get things wrong too which is why you need a human in the process, but at the same time the human factor isn't perfect either.

Maybe a better solution is to have each case being reviewed by more than one person, but I'm not sure how many MMO actually does this.

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Yes, thank you... that's exactly right.

An intelligent response as opposed to being a "butthurt cheater"... wtf is with the maturity level around here, man...

As for someone who found my post "ridiculous", is simply self-importance and narcissism on your part, as if you're someone "above" complaining about something that, especially in the hands of a dev like this, could lead to serious issues.

But, I shouldn't feed the trolls.

My judgments are far from "ridiculous"... as the quoted post shows. Thank you.

Christ.

v0rtic3s said:

Yes, thank you... that's exactly right.

An intelligent response as opposed to being a "butthurt cheater"... wtf is with the maturity level around here, man...

As for someone who found my post "ridiculous", is simply self-importance and narcissism on your part, as if you're someone "above" complaining about something that, especially in the hands of a dev like this, could lead to serious issues.

But, I shouldn't feed the trolls.

My judgments are far from "ridiculous"... as the quoted post shows. Thank you.

Christ.

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You aren't helping you case by quoting yourself.

Dev's get to play the english as a 2nd language card. What about the OP?

Looks like they are trying to address the challenge of catching cheaters without screwing their player base. I'm fine with people getting auto banned for stat cheating and things like that. Having operators looking at logs and seeing if someone is wallhacking? Probably won't last long imo

You are assuming that the "human operators" are incompetent...how can you be sure? Maybe they are great at their jobs. If you really have such a big problem, then quit...thats what I do when games piss me off. I've never had a game cause me this much angst.

v0rtic3s said:

Uh, people are seriously, again, missing the point.

The problem is NOT the anti-cheat system - the problem is that they're leaving a 15% "false positive" chance for innocent people to be banned, and putting the rest of the decision in the hands of completely incompetent people.

Do you get it now? Or does absolutely everyone completely fail in reading comprehension these days?

THAT'S what I have a problem with - that they don't work harder to lower the 15% "false positive" number, instead of working harder on it.

You don't have a problem with that?

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Okay, first we dont know the people they have reviewing it are trained or incompetent. I imagine they have some type of training. How much is the question. We cant say one way or another. Neither can the OP. They have to know what they are looking at and looking for in the info supplied to them. Also 15% sounds like a lot. Is it? I don't know what the industry standard is. The closer to zero is better but what is the standard? I'd be very curious about that. Anyone got an idea?

I'm not trying to pick on the OP. I understand his anger over how it is being handled but to be fair he also made it a highly flaming rant. Well, we know what happens when you do that. It usually goes against the person ranting.

So how many times has the OP been busted for hacking/cheating?

So they implemented a anti cheat system that is constantly evolving and updated, AND they also review it case by case to make sure the system is working correctly.......and this bothers you?

I get what the OP seems to be hinting at. The quotes of the Dev's anti-cheat system and huge area for error seems very amateur. I admit, the paragraphs that OP quoted make the dev sound like a they have an idiot at the helm.
15% false positives resulting in permaban is crazy. Look at DayZ. 1,600,000 players. Think of 240,000 paying customers getting permabanned by false positives. It would take months to sort out the unbanning via customers service. I know this isnt DayZ, but zombie games are all the rage these days so its a fitting example.

WarZ has time and time again shown us that its run by a bunch of morons. Atleast thats if I got the right game in my head...this is the one thats basically a reskin of War Inc? And those guys are frigging retards.
Simple thing for them to do is employ a 3rd party anticheat system.

But really, this isnt the steam forums. I think OP has a legitimate issue here and all you children can do is accuse him of being a cheater himself. Grow up people and stop acting like twats.

What? No. Everyone wont be flagged/logged as using a cheat, so your logic is wrong. 15% of the "catches" are false positives... without knowing how many players are logged, you can't put a hard number on it. Could be 1000a people out of 10000my people being logged, then 15%you of those are false positives. Everyone who okays wont be "logged" and generally speaking most false positives are programs that do similar functions that cheats do. Such as anti virus software or overlay software, corrupt memory or files can cause false positives also.

darkstarcow said:

Why do I get the feeling you are one of the people they are targeting with their anti-cheat? The only people I have ever seen complain about anti-cheat are those who want to cheat, and you went above and beyond with your complaining.

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Pretty much what I figured as well. Preventing cheating and having a harsh policy is not something I see as a "bad" thing. If they start banning honest players because they have shitty detection software that's bugged that's a different story.

But at this point I would the billion OTHER issues in WarZ are more important than their stance on how they plan to approach and work out cheaters.

Cheaters are a huge problem with WarZ. There is even a Twitch.tv channel where some player (can't remember his name now) is openly streaming while he wall hacks/exploits. That shit needs to be stopped for anyone to have an enjoyable experience.

This is why I rarely buy into games like this so early , they have many problems to iron out with WarZ and I don't wish to have the pleasure of paying to do so as an early customer.

v0rtic3s said:

wtf is with the maturity level around here, man...

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You set the maturity level in the OP with a rant worthy of a pro wrestler. It was particularly funny when you stopped self-censoring your swear words just when you started in on their unprofessionalism.

Droc said:

But really, this isnt the steam forums. I think OP has a legitimate issue here and all you children can do is accuse him of being a cheater himself. Grow up people and stop acting like twats.

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Sorry I'm not seeing a legitimate issue here. The dev is communicating what they are doing and how they are doing it to the best of their ability. He even states they are going to continue improving things but the best they've got so far is an 85% detection rate and will have employees monitor the 15% to try and eliminate any false positives.

Vortices is going off on a dev who appears to be trying to keep their game from tanking due to rampant hacking and calls them nuts, incompetent, etc...

Maybe instead of going off on a game he enjoys maybe he can volunteer his services since he can develop a system that provides 100% detection rate with no false positives. Oops...logical fallacy on my part.

Look, no system is 100% perfect, just check out the Battlefield, or any modern major multiplayer game. People are going to get banned from time to time but the overwhelming vast majority of players banned unfairly get their accounts back fairly quickly. This is a new dev and they are apparently trying. All the OP is a trite rant that sounds like any number of whining "OMG I got banned and it wasn't my fault posts" .

Next time phrase your complaints better and the responses I guarantee you will be a whole lot better and sympathetic

Droc said:

I get what the OP seems to be hinting at. The quotes of the Dev's anti-cheat system and huge area for error seems very amateur. I admit, the paragraphs that OP quoted make the dev sound like a they have an idiot at the helm.
15% false positives resulting in permaban is crazy. Look at DayZ. 1,600,000 players. Think of 240,000 paying customers getting permabanned by false positives. It would take months to sort out the unbanning via customers service. I know this isnt DayZ, but zombie games are all the rage these days so its a fitting example.

WarZ has time and time again shown us that its run by a bunch of morons. Atleast thats if I got the right game in my head...this is the one thats basically a reskin of War Inc? And those guys are frigging retards.
Simple thing for them to do is employ a 3rd party anticheat system.

But really, this isnt the steam forums. I think OP has a legitimate issue here and all you children can do is accuse him of being a cheater himself. Grow up people and stop acting like twats.

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The OP complains about a company using a program that has a 15% false positive rate, and so is using humans to double checking the program to ensure people aren't wrongly banned, and you are going to call everyone else "children" and "twats" for questioning why the OP is ranting and raving? wow, just wow.

You will never stop cheater hackers by adding anti cheat BS.

You want to stop cheating?
Give us the gamers a way to report cheaters this way we can take a Screen Shot of the
hacker with their names and build something in game that gives us the ability to report them
right away.

We can take it even further and companies like Origin and Steam would help
by allowing dowload of WAR Z throught them (maybe not Origin).
To download WAR Z you need to have a minimum of $100.00 worth of games
which everyone should. If you are cought cheating / hacking and you have been
reported 3 times with Screen shots of you cheating than Ban their entire Steam account.

If they put this into place I guarantee no one would even take that chance.

NastyNative said:

You will never stop cheater hackers by adding anti cheat BS.

You want to stop cheating?
Give us the gamers a way to report cheaters this way we can take a Screen Shot of the
hacker with their names and build something in game that gives us the ability to report them
right away.

We can take it even further and companies like Origin and Steam would help
by allowing dowload of WAR Z throught them (maybe not Origin).
To download WAR Z you need to have a minimum of $100.00 worth of games
which everyone should. If you are cought cheating / hacking and you have been
reported 3 times with Screen shots of you cheating than Ban their entire Steam account.

If they put this into place I guarantee no one would even take that chance.

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That will only catch the careless cheaters. The ones who cheat with intentions to get away with it can't be spotted as easily. Also lots of newbs will abuse that when they get their asses handed to them by a good player. I've been called a cheater countless times; definitely more than 3 times, so if those three people could have reported me then I would have lost my account back in the UT days.

Probably can never get cheating/hacking in a game down to zero percent but you can definitely bring it down to low numbers. And many people find that perfectly acceptable. Many see it as the devs duty to try and keep as much of it out as possible.