if that happens and they are that un-responsive I think we'll see Linux start to gain legs again, like it did when Vista was the MS flagship.
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If Windows 8 fails...
- Thread starter AndreRio
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if that happens and they are that un-responsive I think we'll see Linux start to gain legs again, like it did when Vista was the MS flagship.
Monkey God
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How old is XP now? And still going strong? If Win7 has another 5-10 years of life in it, no problem. By then we will have more choices.
Microsoft can ship all the tablets they want with Win 8...thats where it belongs. It can even force vendors to ship laptops and dekstop PC's with Win 8 on it, and then businesses along with tech-savvy will just strip it off and put Windows 7 on it like they have been doing with XP since forever.
dr.stevil
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or we'll see Apple gain more PC marketshare.
yup. was about to ninja edit my post with that.
What legs? Linux never had >2% market share during Vista's years, and it still doesn't. Macs may go up some, but Macs went up during 7's years as well, tells us little except people like expensive status symbols..
A lot of people were beginning to leave Windows for Linux before Windows 7 was released. many came back due to Windows 7.
Tsumi
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So many Microsoft haters... you would think that by some of the responses in this thread that Microsoft is coming into your home and robbing you or something like that.
I say this again, how do know that YOUR opinion equals PUBLIC opinion? Well, here's a newsflash for you, it doesn't. The average buyer doesn't really care about interface as long as they can use it.
Businesses? They're still in the middle of upgrading to Windows 7, why would they dump thousands to millions on a new OS when they've only just upgraded to 7? I mean, look how long they stuck with XP, they're going to stay with 7 for at least the next 4-5 years regardless of how well Windows 8 does. In a way, Windows 8 can be seen as an experimental OS since Microsoft knows businesses aren't going to upgrade to it anyways.
Define a lot. If you mean a lot by a bunch of enthusiasts on tech sites, then sure. The average masses wouldn't have moved, and aren't going to move.
I say this again, how do know that YOUR opinion equals PUBLIC opinion? Well, here's a newsflash for you, it doesn't. The average buyer doesn't really care about interface as long as they can use it.
Businesses? They're still in the middle of upgrading to Windows 7, why would they dump thousands to millions on a new OS when they've only just upgraded to 7? I mean, look how long they stuck with XP, they're going to stay with 7 for at least the next 4-5 years regardless of how well Windows 8 does. In a way, Windows 8 can be seen as an experimental OS since Microsoft knows businesses aren't going to upgrade to it anyways.
Define a lot. If you mean a lot by a bunch of enthusiasts on tech sites, then sure. The average masses wouldn't have moved, and aren't going to move.
heatlesssun
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Wow, and you talk about how Microsoft treats its customers?
And you talk about choice but want to define what people can do on PCs.A lot can be 100, to 1 million+, so hard to disagree I suppose. Anyway, the Linux market share has always fluctuated between ~1% and ~1.7%, and Vista did not change that, so it wasn't a lot by market share terms.
I believe fail is too strong a notion, but I think it's redundant for a lot of users out there. For the average Win7 user/gamer/etc., there's not much to warrant a "must have" purchase of Win8. I can get it for free from school probably, but I doubt I'll install it.
wonderfield
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Arguing that Windows 8 is going to fail as a result of Metro is akin to arguing that gasoline is going to fail as a result of it being $4.75/gallon.
Monopolies tend to make otherwise expected outcomes practically impossible.
Monopolies tend to make otherwise expected outcomes practically impossible.
bigdogchris
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Public opinion doesn't mean anything to people who know what they are talking about, unfortunately, most sales of pretty much everything are by uninformed consumers.
Also Microsoft is going to give you a huge choice. Buy new PC, Option 1 Windows 8 Option 2 Windows 8.
I guess you can call anything success if you have no other alternative. I guarantee if you have Windows 7 sit next to 8 almost everyone will choose 7..
This is why Microsoft first said Vista was a huge success. They sure sold a lot of vista licences fortunatley most of them had downgrade rights to xp. Microsoft didn't and couldn't tell any one how many of the Vista licenses were actually Windows XP installs.
1. They would canibalize their own sales with an anciet OS
2. They would admit their latest and gratest was a failure.
3. They had no way of knowing if a Vista licence was an XP install.
I am sure Microsoft will go to top of the mountian and proclaim how great Windows8 sales are but they will also forget to mention that a huge chunk of them are Windows 7 downgrade installs.
Lets face it Microsoft is going down the consumer/consumption road now.
I guess you can call anything success if you have no other alternative. I guarantee if you have Windows 7 sit next to 8 almost everyone will choose 7..
This is why Microsoft first said Vista was a huge success. They sure sold a lot of vista licences fortunatley most of them had downgrade rights to xp. Microsoft didn't and couldn't tell any one how many of the Vista licenses were actually Windows XP installs.
1. They would canibalize their own sales with an anciet OS
2. They would admit their latest and gratest was a failure.
3. They had no way of knowing if a Vista licence was an XP install.
I am sure Microsoft will go to top of the mountian and proclaim how great Windows8 sales are but they will also forget to mention that a huge chunk of them are Windows 7 downgrade installs.
Lets face it Microsoft is going down the consumer/consumption road now.
Tsumi
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And if you had bothered reading my analysis of the survey...
Only 26% of the respondents actually said they used Windows 8, and 25% of respondents said they would rather use Windows 8. It can safely be assumed that most people who have not tried Windows 8 is going to prefer Windows 7, so the fact that nearly all people that tried Windows 8 preferred Windows 8 over Windows 7 can be taken as an indicator of public reception to Windows 8.
The fact that only 26% of survey respondents actually have used Windows 8 renders the rest of the survey practically useless, especially the reason why they would prefer Windows 7 over Windows 8. Even then, the results hints at the major reason why people won't upgrade from Windows 7: the biggest deterrent is cost. People don't want to spend money for little to no perceived gain.
You can get a computer with no OS and install Linux, the fact that people do not WANT to do that, does not mean it is not an option. Secondly, you are wrong about Vista downgrades, throughout the Vista years and many silly flame wars during that time, I checked the net market share stats against MS' numbers taking into account the number of computers in the world according to Wikipedia periodically, and the number was never off by more than a 1 million or so (out of 350-400+ million). I fail to see how you can honestly say something along the lines of "MS does not know how many were downgraded, therefore there were a lot of downgrades." You might as well not even say anything about it if you don't know (and I assure you, MS probably *did* know if I knew from 2 minutes of running numbers from Wikipedia and net market share.)
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Just curious... what will happen to Windows 7 pricing after Windows 8 is released?
Right now... a full version of Windows 7 Home Premium is about $175
I heard Windows 8 will be priced aggressively... I'm assuming to drive adoption.
So if you did want to pick up an "older" copy of Windows 7... will it be priced higher than the "newer" Windows 8? Or will that be up to the retailer?
Right now... a full version of Windows 7 Home Premium is about $175
I heard Windows 8 will be priced aggressively... I'm assuming to drive adoption.
So if you did want to pick up an "older" copy of Windows 7... will it be priced higher than the "newer" Windows 8? Or will that be up to the retailer?
Gas is a monopoly because other things are too expensive to use for that (solar, etc.), not because some tyrant forced us at gunpoint to use it. Same with Windows, some people perceive it as having many faults, but for most people it's still better than the alternatives. Anybody can download Linux for free, so the monopoly argument is really academia. People choose to use Windows, by ordering a computer with it installed (they can get computers without it) and by not installing something else and instead choosing to use Windows. Some people just don't want to admit people don't want Mac and Linux, so they try to insinuate that people are forced to use Windows, it's really sad.
Tsumi
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No, Windows 8 is going to be priced the same as virtually every other release. It's just at the moment Microsoft is offering a $40 upgrade if you already have Windows 7, or $15 upgrade if you bought a Windows 7 PC/laptop in the last few months. Not sure if the $40 upgrade applies to Vista or XP, I think it applies to Vista. So for Vista users, a $40 Windows 8 upgrade would probably be a great thing (adds TRIM as well as a bunch of other features), while there won't be as much of a difference if upgrading from Windows 7.
As for retail pricing, I think Windows 8 is supposed to be $199 per license, so it's going to be more expensive than Windows 7 if 7 is currently at $175. Which makes sense, although I'm sure there will be home user bundle options later on.
Eman D. Rahym
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Actually, I think Microsoft cares very much what its customers want. Just look at their record on backwards compatibility. You really think you know the market better than Microsoft does? You really think you speak for every Windows user? There's probably over a billion of them out there, you must know a lot of people! I bet Microsoft would be thrilled with a world where it only had to make incremental improvements to Windows to keep increasing sales. Sadly, that's not the world we live in. If you hadn't noticed, sales for PCs have been flat for the last few years while the market for fumble slabs is exploding. Apparently customers want things they can touch.
Why shouldn't it have that kind of power? Windows is their product. Why shouldn't they be able to do with it what they want?
Why wouldn't Microsoft remove obsolete code? Why would they put it back? It's obsolete.
When you thoroughly dominate a market segment and are deeply entrenched (think MS in pc's, enterprise, Apple in PMP's), you have certain luxuries, since you basically can't fail just due to 1 or 2 bad versions. You have the chance to correct mistakes, and failure only happens when there's a competitor who can beat you on price, features and marketing.
There is no such competitor for Windows. Its virtually guaranteed that Win 8 will have a much colder reception than Win 7, we've already seen this. And MS can afford this, what they're really betting on is the next 3-5 years and touch to take off and replace most of normal computing. Personally, I'm not so sure touch is such a great thing, its a stopgap solution that has its own problems.
MS will no doubt make billions, but that's mostly from oem installs and enterprise licensing. Will Win 8 sell in the retail channel? I think less people will upgrade from 7 to 8 than did the upgrade to Win 7.
There is no such competitor for Windows. Its virtually guaranteed that Win 8 will have a much colder reception than Win 7, we've already seen this. And MS can afford this, what they're really betting on is the next 3-5 years and touch to take off and replace most of normal computing. Personally, I'm not so sure touch is such a great thing, its a stopgap solution that has its own problems.
MS will no doubt make billions, but that's mostly from oem installs and enterprise licensing. Will Win 8 sell in the retail channel? I think less people will upgrade from 7 to 8 than did the upgrade to Win 7.
Since 98% of people always get Windows from an OEM system, MS could lose the whole 2% that wouldn't, and wouldn't even notice it. But I think this is the wrong way to look at it, what should be looked at is that at this point, it seems a lot people hate windows 8 because everyone else does, not because they have a real issue with it.
Ah... I see. So will retailers discount Windows 7 when Windows 8 comes out?
On the other hand... if there really is demand for Windows 7... they might keep the price higher since people will pay it.
According to Microsoft's site... they will allow retailers to sell the previous version of Windows for a year after the launch date of the new version.
I was just wondering if you'll be able to buy cheaper copies of Windows 7 in the near future.
To answer your question, generally the price of Windows does not go down when a new version gets released. Amazon has Vista Ultimate for $184, but that is 5 years old now, though down from $399. So generally no, but maybe you can find deals somewhere after some time, if you look.
Why did you move to Linux mint..?
CrimsonKnight13
Lord Stabington of [H]ard|Fortress
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Another one of these threads? It seems when one dies down, another starts up in its place.
Regardless of who considers Windows 8 a failure, I'm going to keep using it.
Regardless of who considers Windows 8 a failure, I'm going to keep using it.
D4rkn3ss
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yep, fucking "because windows 98.." vs XP fucking all over again.. then one year later they were all fucking using XP bah. fuckem all, i didnt care the first time why should i give a damn now.. plus, the same thing fucking twice is fucking boring, fuck you déjà vu.
This is a pretty bad poll lol.
Where is the option for "Keep using Windows 8"
I already use Windows 8 and I like it. I see no reason to stop using it. What does it matter to me if it "fails" in your opinion?
How do you even measure "failure" of an operating system? Millions of people will use it, that's a fact.
Where is the option for "Keep using Windows 8"
I already use Windows 8 and I like it. I see no reason to stop using it. What does it matter to me if it "fails" in your opinion?
How do you even measure "failure" of an operating system? Millions of people will use it, that's a fact.
sinclair-zx81
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The people who say "Windows 8 can't fail", probably do not remember DOS 4.01 and Windows Me. Both were pushed on unsuspecting computer buyers until it was generally accepted they were garbage. Windows 98 won solidly over Me, and XP won pretty solidly over Vista, among people who actually know what they are doing on their PCs. It's possible the backlash over Metro could cause Windows 8 to fail, or more likely, force MS to offer an option to return to a Windows 7/Vista/XP Start menu and task bar. I personally will probably not go Win 8 until I absolutely have to. I'm still not using the latest iOS... Windows 8 will be the Star Trek V of Operating Systems (title previously held by Windows Vista).
Monkey34
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I've got too many programs/utilities/etc invested in Windows to switch to Linux now.
W7/XP for me.
W7/XP for me.
Interesting, and what do you think MS should have done? An incremental improvement to Windows 7 that ignores the growing tablet market? If you're going to say you want a choice, well you're technical and 'actually know what you're doing' so just use classic shell or whatever. Anybody that gets Windows 8 will either use it as is and be happy, or go find something like classic shell. So I don't see where this enormous rage is going to come from, since everybody can be happy. And I think the vast majority just will not care either way, at least I don't see a reason to think they will, just a lot of declaring that they will.
I thought Windows 8 would be "ok" but after using the RTM version that came out last month, I'm not looking forward to using it. I'll stick with Windows 7 as long as I can, or go to Windows 9 if things get a little better. I'm not a graphics junkie and don't buy the best video cards every month like most around here, so new versions of DX don't phase me.
As a MacBook Pro user for 2 years, I love OS X for what it is good for: everyday normal tasks + stability - gaming. I used to try and force my MBP to play games and always came up disappointed with performance, even with boot camp. But now that I've wised up a bit, I use my MBP for normal tasks and my gaming PC and X360 for gaming. I'll even admit that performing more complex IT tasks can be a PITA on OS X, but that's what my Win7 desktop at work is good for.
I highly doubt that anyone here on [H] will leave Windows in the next few months to flock to Linux. Until Windows 7 gets phased out in the next 15 years and gamers are forced to a newer OS, then we will see.
As a MacBook Pro user for 2 years, I love OS X for what it is good for: everyday normal tasks + stability - gaming. I used to try and force my MBP to play games and always came up disappointed with performance, even with boot camp. But now that I've wised up a bit, I use my MBP for normal tasks and my gaming PC and X360 for gaming. I'll even admit that performing more complex IT tasks can be a PITA on OS X, but that's what my Win7 desktop at work is good for.
I highly doubt that anyone here on [H] will leave Windows in the next few months to flock to Linux. Until Windows 7 gets phased out in the next 15 years and gamers are forced to a newer OS, then we will see.
At this point nobody is discussing reasons they don't like Windows 8, just declaring MS will go bankrupt and everyone will switch to Linux, or change it back to Windows 7 UI, etc. Of course I know why, I also know peeps will post reasons in an ad hoc fashion in response to this insight (yea mock it), but if you had real reasons I feel you'd be discussing them without being prompted to.
Here's the problem with "windows 8 failing". We'll never know. Not really. MS has long played the "downgrade licensing" game, where even if you are buying something for a downgrade license, it counts as the latest version in the sales numbers. They have no incentive to NOT play that game this time around, and it's not as if demand for MS software is going to magically evaporate.
No, the only way we'll know windows 8 'failed' is when windows 9 comes out with a much more user friendly implementation of Metro ( which allows such niceties as "default to desktop" ). Which I suspect will happen, and then the very same cheerleaders will go on and on about how much better windows 9 is over 8, and how dare anyone have a contrary opinion ( which, as we all know, opinions can and are wrong after all ). I am eager to watch this ( and have bookmarked a number of threads here for just such an occasion ).
No, the only way we'll know windows 8 'failed' is when windows 9 comes out with a much more user friendly implementation of Metro ( which allows such niceties as "default to desktop" ). Which I suspect will happen, and then the very same cheerleaders will go on and on about how much better windows 9 is over 8, and how dare anyone have a contrary opinion ( which, as we all know, opinions can and are wrong after all ). I am eager to watch this ( and have bookmarked a number of threads here for just such an occasion ).
Yea, just like MS went back to XP and dumped Vista. Anyway, once again, downgrades of Vista never happened on a massive scale as is frequently repeated on forums, Net Market Share's stats proved it. And if Windows 8 is a success and Windows 9 continues the Windows 8 trend, will you also carry through on your fear inducing threat to link back to these threads, I wonder? Actually what I expect, is that you and others will simply continue to repeat that Windows 8 was massively downgraded, or that massive # of people faked their user agent to pretend to be running Windows 8 because of theoretical compatibility issues, and so on, despite all evidence to the contrary.
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Obviously there are different ways to go about addressing the tablet market, I personally like the way MS chose, /shrug.