FCC Eyes Tax on Internet Service

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Stiletto said:
I've never whined about what South Korea does. They impress me as a nation. I just wish we didn't have troops there.
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I don't mean you you. I mean the plural you as in the [H] in general.
 
Azhar said:
I don't mean you you. I mean the plural you as in the [H] in general.
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Please don't attribute attitudes or arguments to people that haven't made them. It's rather arrogant and pretentious, as well as a cheap debate tactic and time waster in a real discussion.
 
With strict guidelines (fat chance I know) i would have no problem If this was implemented. There should be strict bounds on what is acceptable. No wireless, no crap DSL; fibre only and any provider using the lines must provide unlimited service on all tiers, also a base tier will be capped at a very low rate like maybe (or less) $19 for 10mbits down. Money must go only go to physical infrastructure, no payoffs no bonuses.

If public money ie taxes go to any project, research or whatever, the public should get the lions share of the benefit PERIOD. This goes doubly for patents and research. Accept public money and the research becomes public domain.
 
Stiletto said:
Please don't attribute attitudes or arguments to people that haven't made them. It's rather arrogant and pretentious, as well as a cheap debate tactic and time waster in a real discussion.
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Eh, I've been here a rather long time and trust me, when South Korean fiber topic comes up, you see everyone wishing we had it here. It wasn't a debate anyways, but rather an sarcastic opinion.
 
If I were guarenteed to have my speed trippled in the next 10 years with no monthly increase I would be ok with a 1% fee on internet service.

However if my bill went up 1 cent from speed increases (except for adjustment for inflation) I would be very pissed off.

An this is exactly what our economy needs, more taxes in downtime. It is getting crazy really
 
Azhar said:
Eh, I've been here a rather long time and trust me, when South Korean fiber topic comes up, you see everyone wishing we had it here. It wasn't a debate anyways, but rather an sarcastic opinion.
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If we want it, we should give private industry an incentive to build that infrastructure, and I don't mean government handouts. If the vast majority of Americans are unsatisfied with their broadband speeds and are willing to pay a premium price for a better product, ISPs will follow through. If the vast majority of Americans are satisfied, what reason have ISPs to develop their infrastructure at a rate faster than their current R&D budgets allow?
 
Google launched Google Fiber last month. charging customers $70 a month for 1Gbps downloads and uploads, plus 1 terabyte of data storage.
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^^ want this.
 
We paid "the phone company" $5/mo for 30 years for what was supposed to pay for "fiber optic to the home" as a tax the phone companies got to keep. :eek:

They never delivered. :(

You realize $5/mo times 100,000,000+ homes/businesses times 30 years is a few HUNDRED BILLION. :eek:

Either the baby bells pay us back, or they pay for this total 100% wiring fiber. :mad::rolleyes:
 
Stiletto said:
America is the most generous and giving nation in the world, not only through foreign aid and relief packages to others countries through government initiatives, but in donations to charity by the private citizens of this great, if fading, republic.

So take your whiny pleas for "more" and chuck them out the window. We already give and give and give and all we hear is "it's not enough".

Of course it's not enough. The desire of many to have others subsidize their lifestyle will always outweigh the ability of others to do so.
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Your reply sounds surprisingly Dickensian in nature.

Have you ever read Oliver Twist, or are you just unintentionally mimicking it?
 
TheWeazmeister said:
Google launched Google Fiber last month. charging customers $70 a month for 1Gbps downloads and uploads, plus 1 terabyte of data storage.
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^^ want this.
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The problem is that Google is an anomaly, even if fiber was wired to ever house in the nation the ISPs would do a tiered pricing structure, where 10Mbps would be your low tier (the one they advertise as "$29.95 for FIBER!!!!") however when you get to the 1Gbps speeds you know Verizon, or Comcast, or AT&T will charge a god damn arm and a leg even though from a cost stand point there isn't any differences for them.
 
ekierce said:
Your reply sounds surprisingly Dickensian in nature.

Have you ever read Oliver Twist, or are you just unintentionally mimicking it?
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Oh, and I'm not trying to insult you or anything of the sort, it just struck me as comical.
 
Stiletto said:
Over a third of that debt was established by our current president, and nearly another third by the last.
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Not sure the point. I wasn't debating who made it. I'm pretty sure it was a snow ball effect too as well so lay blame on the ones that got the ball rolling, not just the ones that kept pushing it (at least without mentioning all of them, at least).

I'm not happy about it, either, but that doesn't change the fact that the citizens of this nation are the most generous in the world. Is there a reason you're trying to deflect away from that?
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Sure thing, yet the economic inequality in this nation is at an all time high (or damn near close). So when you refer to generous citizens, are you referring to the top 400 people in this nation that are worth more than the bottom 150,000,000 people combined or the middle class which is eroding the most? Just wondering... Also, 93% percent of all income in 2010 supposedly went to the 1%. I guess leaving 7% for the rest of the 99% is very generous indeed. Now...apply policy at home to policy abroad and you have what really (like in the real real world) is going on in the world.

Oh yeah...probably the same reason you're saying "Murica" is the biggest "bully nation", whatever the hell that means, in the history of nations.
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As to "bully nation", I just mean something like this and this. Honestly though, I think Joe Rogan describes it better than I ever could. Or this, which just points out that people want to use their toys so they make up reasons to do so.

Tell me, does that history include the Soviets, Nazis, Romans, Visigoths, etc? Nah. Of course it doesn't. History doesn't extend past 1991 for you, I'm guessing.
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Actually, I understand what you're trying to do here but "yes" it does. Last time I checked we've had ourselves involved (world policing) in most, if not all, of the other nations problems (that currently exist (Rome...lol)). Blowing every other assholes record out of the water. Matter a fact, the US has been provoking Iran lately too (One of many so please don't tell me how we're just fucking great and they're pure devil evil). However I wasn't talking about genocide (which wasn't global) that we later did get involved in, too. Another good example though is secretly funding jihadists (aka Afghanistan) to fight the soviets in the late 70's just to turn around and attack them all later on and call them terrorists...lol. Bully?

Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune. - Noam Chomsky
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There are alot of arguments about people not getting High Speed internet in rural areas but there are a number of satellite internet companies that have coverage over almost the entire US that is considered high speed internet. So this whole argument about them not having the option is kind of bogus. HughesNet for example is available.
I get the whole idea that we are trying to give people internet in areas that don't have it, that is great but if you really think about it the big companies like Comcast, AT&T, Charter, and so forth ARE going to profit because they will be gaining paying customers. So public funding for Corporations to gain customers is totally bogus no matter what way you look at it. Not sure what you guys are missing when you think its a good idea for others to give more money to companies to build onto their infrastructure when they don't want to because it cost them money to do so. Please realize they are greedy and didn't care about those rural areas until now where they can not lose money on the deal. In this case it gives them the excuse to raise their (already sky high for most) prices for internet.
 
SomeoneElse said:
There are alot of arguments about people not getting High Speed internet in rural areas but there are a number of satellite internet companies that have coverage over almost the entire US that is considered high speed internet. So this whole argument about them not having the option is kind of bogus. HughesNet for example is available.
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Basically that's what it comes down to.

Although you have people crying that satellite isn't that good, well you know what else isn't that good in rural locations? Reliable electrical service during times of "harsh" weather. IMO it's a tradeoff for living in a rural location, you get fresh air, land is cheap, not very crowded, but a lot of modern conveniences do get pushed to the wayside as a compromise.
 
SomeoneElse said:
There are alot of arguments about people not getting High Speed internet in rural areas but there are a number of satellite internet companies that have coverage over almost the entire US that is considered high speed internet. So this whole argument about them not having the option is kind of bogus. HughesNet for example is available.
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Have you tried to use sat service ? Well I have and its a fucking joke. HughesNet and Wildblue are to the two big companies that provide it and they are both not cheap. Wildblue offers a 25GB plan for $129.99 a month at 12Mbps through the new ViaSat-1 Excede sat that was just launched. Its their fastest tier 12Mbps but often users rare get that speed. Go check the forums at Broadbandreports.com if you want more insight into the expense.

If all you do is check your email once a week and do about 30-60 minutes worth of surfing per day than you pick out the $49.99 a month option and you probably don't use the Internet hardly at all. But if you want to download any large files , watch Netflix and or play video games you are fucked. Not only does the latency often range from over half a second to a second and half delay (versus 6 milliseconds on my FiOS connection , which gives sat service a latency on average hundreds of times slower) but the bandwidth caps are also very low starting at a anemic 7.5GB per month. Weather can also play heavily into how well it works , if you have large Earth based storms overhead you can pretty much kiss your sat service good bye until it clears up. Hell sometimes just getting your dish lined up correctly is a task and half.

You also have to worry about Solar storms as well , I know people that have widgets on there phones updating them on the latest solar weather from NOAA so they can plan out if they are going to be without service that evening. One of my friends actually just canceled his sat service because of overall frustration and decided to use 3G service tethered on his rooted smartphone to surf the web. He has T-Mobile and even when he's hit his speed cap for the month , he gets better pings and doesn't have to worry about latency as much. Considering the cost of sat service and the fact that its much faster (well through Wildblue it can be) than 3G ..that's pretty sad.

Sat service is not all bad of course but its not nearly as good as fiber based broadband and comparing sat service like its a real alternative is wrong.
 
ekierce said:
Your reply sounds surprisingly Dickensian in nature.

Have you ever read Oliver Twist, or are you just unintentionally mimicking it?
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Your reply sounds unsurprisingly shallow in nature.

Are you really comparing the most generous country in the world to Mr. Bumble?
 
AnonymousUser said:
Sure thing, yet the economic inequality in this nation is at an all time high (or damn near close). So when you refer to generous citizens, are you referring to the top 400 people in this nation that are worth more than the bottom 150,000,000 people combined or the middle class which is eroding the most? Just wondering... Also, 93% percent of all income in 2010 supposedly went to the 1%. I guess leaving 7% for the rest of the 99% is very generous indeed. Now...apply policy at home to policy abroad and you have what really (like in the real real world) is going on in the world.
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So not a word of that actually addresses charitable contributions given by people from all economic brackets. Why are you continuously refusing to acknowledge that? As to income...since when is income supposed to be equitable to all people in capitalist economies? I prefer equality of opportunity, not equality of results. You want to go out and make a million dollars? Go for it. You want to work very little and spend far more time on leisure activities? Go for it. Why should you both get equal results?

And again...why do you keep changing the subject away from what the citizens of the US, who give more to charity than the citizens of any other nation? Is it because you'd have to admit that the American system has actually been beneficial for its citizens, as well as most of the rest of the world? Or do you simply despise those with wealth?

As to "bully nation", I just mean something like...
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Ah. The old anti-military anti-"imperialism" yarn. I already said we should withdraw our troops from South Korea, as well as from the rest of other countries. I wish Afghanistan were finished in the next minute, and we were engaging in no more wars(including the half a dozen drone wars Obama started but the anti-war movement is too chickenshit to face).

Next time, come up with an actual opinion instead of just sending me a bunch of links to parse on my own. Or, if you're unable to parse an opinion yourself, and are reduced to providing other people's viewpoints that you happen to agree with, just don't bother.

Actually, I understand what you're trying to do here but "yes" it does.
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Yes, blah blah blah, you claim we're the cause of all the world's problems. First of all, you specified "in the history of nations", while nations just in the century have slaughtered people on a scale that the United States could not even begin to imagine, from the Ottoman Empire to Cambodia to the Soviet Union to China, you have millions upon millions of people slaughtered by their own countries. But no...the US is the real criminal. I expect no less from someone who finishes up with a quote from one of the biggest apologists for criminal regimes. Your regurgitation is sad, pal. Very sad.
 
mope54 said:
it's not an apple thread so you actually read my points without any preconceived notions about what you think I believe :)
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Oh, I always read your Apple posts. It's just that half the time they are nonsense. ;)
 
AnonymousUser said:
secretly funding jihadists
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By the way, my apologies for not addressing this bit of nonsense, only spouted by those who really have no idea of Afghan history. The Taliban did not take control of Afghanistan until after the Soviet invasion, and drove out the people we actually aided against the Soviet incursion. Those exiles eventually became part of the Northern Alliance. You know...the non-jihadi Afghanis who were alongside us fighting the Taliban as early as the late 90s? They're now known as the United Front, and sadly, we've given up trying to help them. Obama's busy kissing Karzai's ass when his jihadi filth kill our soldiers, and talking about what a grand ally the Taliban will be. It's sickening.

Nearly as sickening as the ignorance of people who parrot scum like Chomsky but don't even know the difference between two warring groups of people in a nation.
 
TheWeazmeister said:
LOL, right.

US-national-debt-GDP.png


Wait, no that couldn't quite POSSIBLY be correct...
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I would love to see a re-do of this graph with a second line for Both Roosevelt and Obama that shows without Department of Defense spending (IE WW1/2 as Roosevelt couldn't have done that much imo to prevent WW1/2), the War in Iraq/Afganistan/other military campaigns inherited from the previous government) and updated to say August 2012 since there has been a reasonable amount of spending on-going.
 
MavericK96 said:
Oh, I always read your Apple posts. It's just that half the time they are nonsense. ;)
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unfortunately, at this point you're likely convinced enough that all my apple related posts are going to be nonsensical so it's going to be difficult to approach them without finding things confirming that bias
 
Stiletto said:
So not a word of that actually addresses charitable contributions given by people from all economic brackets. Why are you continuously refusing to acknowledge that? As to income...since when is income supposed to be equitable to all people in capitalist economies? I prefer equality of opportunity, not equality of results. You want to go out and make a million dollars? Go for it. You want to work very little and spend far more time on leisure activities? Go for it. Why should you both get equal results?
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Wow...where to start with you, seriously. So let me get this right. The biggest debtor nation in history borrows money off every major country in the world and then redistributes some of it to manipulate other countries is somehow the only good guys in the world? Or what about the fact we'll never pay back our own borrowed debts but will only ever make the interest payments (which default unless the debt ceiling was raised was threatened a couple times now)?

Oh you mean regular people (like governments everywhere don't use regular peoples money)! I already stated the facts, most (normal) people don't have it to even give so...lets drop that BS already. The only ones giving real money to anyone else are elites and the gov which both come with profits or stipulations hidden in the name of charity. Oh you're right, a pair of slippers I bought stated a portion was going to help give some people in some other country clean drinking water. I'm the fucking man!
I prefer equality of opportunity, not equality of results.
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Show me how to make a million dollars in a year, or five, or ten, when starting from nothing (the 99% of us)? ROFL...you think you have the same opportunity as the elite, rofl, that's all. Okay, this too!
Stiletto said:
And again...why do you keep changing the subject away from what the citizens of the US, who give more to charity than the citizens of any other nation? Is it because you'd have to admit that the American system has actually been beneficial for its citizens, as well as most of the rest of the world? Or do you simply despise those with wealth?
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WTF are you talking about? Changing the subject? LOL. It's like you didn't even read a word I said. Seriously!

Stiletto said:
Ah. The old anti-military anti-"imperialism" yarn. I already said we should withdraw our troops from South Korea, as well as from the rest of other countries. I wish Afghanistan were finished in the next minute, and we were engaging in no more wars(including the half a dozen drone wars Obama started but the anti-war movement is too chickenshit to face).
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Ah, the old "reality", yes! As for the rest, I guess we agree but it'll never happen. War is a business.

Stiletto said:
Next time, come up with an actual opinion instead of just sending me a bunch of links to parse on my own. Or, if you're unable to parse an opinion yourself, and are reduced to providing other people's viewpoints that you happen to agree with, just don't bother.
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My opinion was given and was reiterated in the links. Could you not parse that? If not, just don't bother yourself.

Stiletto said:
Yes, blah blah blah,
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With responses like this.

First of all, you specified "in the history of nations", while nations just in the century have slaughtered people on a scale that the United States could not even begin to imagine, from the Ottoman Empire to Cambodia to the Soviet Union to China, you have millions upon millions of people slaughtered by their own countries. But no...the US is the real criminal. I expect no less from someone who finishes up with a quote from one of the biggest apologists for criminal regimes. Your regurgitation is sad, pal. Very sad.
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You do realize that the US has killed around a million innocent people in Iraq right? Or what about the thousands of innocent people killed in Afghanistan? Or the innocent people that were killed in Mexico by guns supplied by the US to the drug cartels there? Or the innocent people we've killed in drone attacks? Or the fact our country has been the biggest cause of a lot of foreign governments being overthrown? human, we make problems for everyone else, we start shit everywhere. Also, false-flag attacks didn't just happen with the Nazis.

It's like you think the biggest most powerful military in the world just sits around being the good guys, it's crazy to say the least. We're the world power by suppressing everyone else, nothing less, nothing more. Reread what I wrote previously and actually parse the links I included because I think you're clueless to what is really going on in the world. I'm bored, going to watch Dr. Oz. Good day!
 
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Stiletto said:
By the way, my apologies for not addressing this bit of nonsense, only spouted by those who really have no idea of Afghan history. The Taliban did not take control of Afghanistan until after the Soviet invasion, and drove out the people we actually aided against the Soviet incursion. Those exiles eventually became part of the Northern Alliance. You know...the non-jihadi Afghanis who were alongside us fighting the Taliban as early as the late 90s? They're now known as the United Front, and sadly, we've given up trying to help them. Obama's busy kissing Karzai's ass when his jihadi filth kill our soldiers, and talking about what a grand ally the Taliban will be. It's sickening.
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Yet I was saying exactly what the link said. Weird. I also never mentioned the Taliban. Also, I'm pretty sure neither of us know what the president is doing so pardon the request to stop talking out of your ass.

Nearly as sickening as the ignorance of people who parrot scum like Chomsky
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Also, this literally made me think you're not worth a conversation with. It's like you only want to hear what you want to hear and Noam says the truth so it makes you hate him. Let it be, but it's not the real world.
 
Stiletto said:
Yes. Nothing good led to us being a world power. America truly is the Great Satan.

Buh bye.
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America, we're the only good people in the world, everyone else are just terrorists (that hate our freedoms)!
Even are own citizens are if they disagree in anyway! NDAA is a just in case type of thing (until a sane judge said it was unconstitutional).
 
AnonymousUser said:
Yet I was saying exactly what the link said. Weird. I also never mentioned the Taliban. Also, I'm pretty sure neither of us know what the president is doing so pardon the request to stop talking out of your ass.
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Anyone who gives a damn about world affairs has been following Obama's relationship with Karzai. You're apparently too ignorant to pay attention. As to you not saying the Taliban, you cited jihadis in Afghanistan. The Taliban are pro-jihadi and in league with jihadis. The people we aided in the 1979 invasion were predominantly people who were not jihadi, and ended up fighting the Taliban later.

If you knew a damn thing about Afghanistan, you would know this. You would also know where the Taliban loyalties lie, and that they are, for all intents and purposes, the jihadis.

Noam says the truth so it makes you hate him.
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You're a cultist. You don't even know the fundamentals of the issues you're discussing. You just repeat what one man tells you.
 
AnonymousUser said:
America, we're the only good people in the world,
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I never said anything of the kind. You said that we're a world power only because we suppress other nations, which would make us the worst country in the world. I said we're not the worst country in the world. I didn't say we're the only good people. You're the one making the extreme argument, not me.
 
Stiletto said:
Anyone who gives a damn about world affairs has been following Obama's relationship with Karzai. You're apparently too ignorant to pay attention. As to you not saying the Taliban, you cited jihadis in Afghanistan. The Taliban are pro-jihadi and in league with jihadis. The people we aided in the 1979 invasion were predominantly people who were not jihadi, and ended up fighting the Taliban later.

If you knew a damn thing about Afghanistan, you would know this. You would also know where the Taliban loyalties lie, and that they are, for all intents and purposes, the jihadis.
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Again, reread link.

You're a cultist. You don't even know the fundamentals of the issues you're discussing. You just repeat what one man tells you.
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LOL... pot meet kettle.

Last thing, stop keeping this thread OT. Get over it.
 
Stiletto said:
I said I was finished. You kept it going. You're a troll, and a very poor one.
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I didn't keep it going, I was still typing my response when you had put that. hard concept to grasp...huh? Seriously, get over it already. You remind me of a little kid that won't shut up.

Disclaimer: the only reason I responded is to correct you but I can't believe I'm still taking the bait at this point.
 
AnonymousUser said:
I didn't keep it going, I was still typing my response when you had put that. hard concept to grasp...huh? Seriously, get over it already. You remind me of a little kid that won't shut up.

Disclaimer: the only reason I responded is to correct you but I can't believe I'm still taking the bait at this point.
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Thanks for hijacking and completely taking this thread off topic. Bravo...
 
You two should seriously take your "which country worse" argument to PM's , absolutely sidetracking from the OT.
 
Stiletto said:
By the way, my apologies for not addressing this bit of nonsense, only spouted by those who really have no idea of Afghan history. The Taliban did not take control of Afghanistan until after the Soviet invasion, and drove out the people we actually aided against the Soviet incursion. Those exiles eventually became part of the Northern Alliance. You know...the non-jihadi Afghanis who were alongside us fighting the Taliban as early as the late 90s? They're now known as the United Front, and sadly, we've given up trying to help them. Obama's busy kissing Karzai's ass when his jihadi filth kill our soldiers, and talking about what a grand ally the Taliban will be. It's sickening.

Nearly as sickening as the ignorance of people who parrot scum like Chomsky but don't even know the difference between two warring groups of people in a nation.
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Y'know, I know this is totally off-topic, but we're already at the free for all stage. You sound pretty bitter. In all likely-hood you know more about history then me. So I ask you: Just what is your view on the world? It seems as though you don't particularly have faith in your own country, let alone others. Not having a go, I'm just interested. On the one hand there are those who refuse to maintain ignorance at least to a certain degree while continuing their ineffectual daily life (probably like you), but on the other hand you have those who remain ignorant and do essentially the same thing. In the end, I wonder what the point of all this is. I don't fully expect to get an answer, after all I asked a remarkably broad question, but It's an interesting thought experiment nonetheless.

/Existential crisis (I'm joking... this isn't really why I asked)
 
Paradoxine said:
Y'know, I know this is totally off-topic, but we're already at the free for all stage. You sound pretty bitter. In all likely-hood you know more about history then me. So I ask you: Just what is your view on the world? It seems as though you don't particularly have faith in your own country, let alone others. Not having a go, I'm just interested. On the one hand there are those who refuse to maintain ignorance at least to a certain degree while continuing their ineffectual daily life (probably like you), but on the other hand you have those who remain ignorant and do essentially the same thing. In the end, I wonder what the point of all this is. I don't fully expect to get an answer, after all I asked a remarkably broad question, but It's an interesting thought experiment nonetheless.

/Existential crisis (I'm joking... this isn't really why I asked)
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Ever seen Se7en? Summed it up pretty well:

Ernest Hemingway once wrote, "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." I agree with the second part.
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AnonymousUser said:
Paper money/Fiat currency is very very very different from any other commodity/resource. A fiat currency loses value no matter what as more linen/cotton with ink on it is printed and released into circulation (dilution of existing money). Gold and most other resources can't be replicated like this and retain fair value and compared to the fiat currency, become worth a lot more (fiat currency is worth a lot less).

Yes, humans only give value to what they feel is valuable (we all mostly understand this aka scarcity which paper money is not scarce...lol) but here's where track records matter, gold has a 6,000 year history of successful implementation. Fiat currencies have failed every single time ever used since the first time they were ever used all the way up to the US dollar that WILL collapse when the time is right. There is already another fiat currency in the works to takes it place (aka...another dilution scheme but on a much larger scale). Why? Because of the dilution of the money possible by those that control its creation and release. In our case the federal reserve.

Fiat currency is unsustainable and history and the future will solidify this judgment. Would you keep filling a barrel full with water by hand that I cut a hole into the bottom of on and since 1913 and was taking away any amounts of water that I deemed fit (your opinion meant nothing!) from your grandfather down to you and soon your sons and daughters? Maybe (sucks too), but majority of humans who cognitively understand the true specifics of the mechanism would revolt! The biggest problem is most people today aren't allowed to see the bottom of the barrel (through proper education) and don't understand there's even a hole present to begin with. They just think it is what it is (It's not taught in school like nationalism is).

I believe this quote is as much worth its weight in gold today as is it did when first spoken (retained its proper value).



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Thanks for the Ron Paul explanation of what money is.
 
Paradoxine said:
As a brit I have no stake in this but seriously, If you want internet throughout your country with fair pricing, then you need to cut the monopoly crap these private corporations have on your infrastructure. Say whatever you want about privatising other things but imho, your infrastructure should always be owned by the state,
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So you want to trade one government-granted monopoly with a government-run monopoly?

Ok, that makes no sense at all.
 
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