Windows 8 Successor Already In The Works?

Touch-screen keyboards are a toy; unsuitable for serious work.

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Very familiar with that keyboard, used them when a lot of people around here were in diapers. Just for grins I was curious about something so I pulled one of these venerable keyboards out my parts closet:

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A full x86 Core i5 computer with 4GB of RAM and a 64GB SSD with a touch and pen digitizer that weighs half as much as only a keyboard. And this is a heavy tablet even by the coming x86 standards. Of course there are much lighter keyboards but it's just one of those things that make think about just how much things have changed in only my lifetime.
 
I hope this new Windows after Windows 8 will bring back the start button and no "Metro" tablet wannabe GUI bullshit because I'm really not liking Metro at all. It seems that Microsoft likes to repeat mistakes again after a bad OS.
 
This is a keyboard


Touch-screen keyboards are a toy; unsuitable for serious work.

I love model M's

I have :

- 1 1993 Lexmark Model M (52G9700)

(My Pic)

The Model M by mattlach, on Flickr

- 1 Model M13 Trackpoint II (Black)

(My pic)

The IBM Model M by mattlach, on Flickr

- 1 Unicomp Classic Black/Grey

(Not my pic)


- Unicomp Ultra Classic (Spacesaver) Black/Grey

(Not my pic)


To me, buckling sping designs are the only acceptable keyboards for any significant typing. I don't mind them in games either, despite their high actuation force and very tactile feel, even with their 2KRO limitation, this has never been an issue for me.

Unfortunately the 1993 Lexmark Grey/beige Model M was recently water damaged. For a keyboard I got on eBay in 1999 for $8, it definitely put in its time of great service. If it weren't for the ceiling leak at work it would still be soldiering on today, looking brand new.

The black Trackpoint II model is currently being cleaned up and being put away for posterity. They are getting more and more rare, and since the white lettering on the keys wears off, and no replacements are being made anymore, I want to keep it as a collectors item in pristine condition. That's why I bought the two Unicomps. Spacesaver for work, Classic for home.
 
Zarathustra[H];1039040360 said:
I love model M's

I have :

- 1 1993 Lexmark Model M (52G9700)

(My Pic)

The Model M by mattlach, on Flickr

- 1 Model M13 Trackpoint II (Black)

(My pic)

The IBM Model M by mattlach, on Flickr

- 1 Unicomp Classic Black/Grey

(Not my pic)


- Unicomp Ultra Classic (Spacesaver) Black/Grey

(Not my pic)


To me, buckling sping designs are the only acceptable keyboards for any significant typing. I don't mind them in games either, despite their high actuation force and very tactile feel, even with their 2KRO limitation, this has never been an issue for me.

Unfortunately the 1993 Lexmark Grey/beige Model M was recently water damaged. For a keyboard I got on eBay in 1999 for $8, it definitely put in its time of great service. If it weren't for the ceiling leak at work it would still be soldiering on today, looking brand new.

The black Trackpoint II model is currently being cleaned up and being put away for posterity. They are getting more and more rare, and since the white lettering on the keys wears off, and no replacements are being made anymore, I want to keep it as a collectors item in pristine condition. That's why I bought the two Unicomps. Spacesaver for work, Classic for home.

To add to this, these are the best keyboards ever made. Nothing comes even close to touching buckling springs, not any Cherry switches, or Alps/Fukka switches or Topre switches and certainly not scissor or rubber dome switches.

The Model M style buckling springs are in a class of their own. Nothing else compares.
 
Zarathustra[H];1039040416 said:
For a traditional keyboard, I'd even argue that more weight is a GOOD thing.

Keeps it steady on the desk.

God, yes. I can't begin to express my dislike for ultra-lightweight keyboards that moves around my desk as I type. One of the reason I picked up this Microsoft Comfort 5000 keyboard/mouse set. The keyboard's heavy and the legs grip the desk too well it doesn't go anywhere. Key presses almost feel like the old model M's, but with less travel as you push down on it.
 
You're typing on it.. who cares how much it weighs :confused:

People type on laptops and care very much they weigh. I think the point you're trying to make is that people don't carry desktop keyboards around thus weight isn't a consideration.
 
So true! Comparing the weight of a keyboard to the weight of a tablet is a pointless comparison.

Not has one has to carry that keyboard, it is a big consideration for keyboards these days as computing has become more mobile than in the days these IBM keyboards where popular. The fact that a whole fully functional computer, indeed ones with keyboards weigh less than this thing. It's just a reminder of how computing has changed in my lifetime.
 
People type on laptops and care very much they weigh. I think the point you're trying to make is that people don't carry desktop keyboards around thus weight isn't a consideration.

I'm typing on a laptop right now and I don't care what it weighs. I'm also like 8 million times more of a wimp than most people in this forum and even I don't really mind if something weighs 6 lbs instead of 2 lbs.

Besides that, any tablet computer that is used in a place where it is constantly carried should be constructed with durability as a primary concern, not making it as thin and light as possible. If not, it'll have to be packed into a protective casing that increases its weight and size while sealing it away from the elements.
 
I'm typing on a laptop right now and I don't care what it weighs.

If it weighed 30 lbs. you'd care. The first mobile computer I got through work in the early 90's was a Compaq I don't remember what, but I do remember it weighed 30 lbs.

I understand that you like to incite but making that claim that you don't care much a portable device weighs is just nonsense.;)
 
Just because I can pants doesn't mean I wanna also have to wear a tutu.

Just because I can wear pants doesn't mean I wanna also have to wear a tutu.

Not at the same time, though. That looks weird. Either the pants OR the tutu. It is way too awkward for both.

Start Screen/Modern UI/Windows 8 (formally known as Princ..... Metro UI) and Desktop are two completely different interfaces. One is great, the other is a full screen tablet based UI. They are awkward to both be there. Usable, yes, because they have to be. But, it's not a good UI experience.
 
If it weighed 30 lbs. you'd care. The first mobile computer I got through work in the early 90's was a Compaq I don't remember what, but I do remember it weighed 30 lbs.

I understand that you like to incite but making that claim that you don't care much a portable device weighs is just nonsense.;)

It's not 1990, Compaq is owned by HP, and laptops have been down to a reasonable weight for quite a few years (8.1 lbs for a HP Omnibook 6000 that came out in 2000).
 
It's not 1990, Compaq is owned by HP, and laptops have been down to a reasonable weight for quite a few years (8.1 lbs for a HP Omnibook 6000 that came out in 2000).

Man, I was going to come in here and compare tablet weight with the ENIAC.

Way to ruin that chance for me.
 
It's not 1990, Compaq is owned by HP, and laptops have been down to a reasonable weight for quite a few years (8.1 lbs for a HP Omnibook 6000 that came out in 2000).

So you do care about how much a mobile device weighs after all.;)
 
Hey guys, I just lifted my 40 pound dumbbell, then lifted a Microsoft Surface. The Surface is much lighter! I marvel at the astounding rate of technological advancement!
 
Hey guys, I just lifted my 40 pound dumbbell, then lifted a Microsoft Surface. The Surface is much lighter! I marvel at the astounding rate of technological advancement!

Lighter devices are going to result in all of us being less fit :p
 
I was with you until that part.

Have you even used a tablet couch surfing is the best thing to do on one.

And trust me I Hate metro with a passion the only way I can use windows 8 now is with Start 8.

No.. I haven't. I'd rather lug my "old, heavy, outdated hardware* that is my laptop out to the couch, so that I could use a real keyboard for any typing.. and incase I felt like anything more productive than angry birds and web browsing.
 
No.. I haven't. I'd rather lug my "old, heavy, outdated hardware* that is my laptop out to the couch, so that I could use a real keyboard for any typing.. and incase I felt like anything more productive than angry birds and web browsing.

Not all browsing involves typing a ton.

Some people like reading.

When on the forums I use a real keyboard. When reading I ahve no problem using a tablet (but I don't own one).

To me laptop keyboards are not much better than touch screens though. They are absolutely terrible compared to real keyboards.
 
Zarathustra[H];1039041118 said:
Lighter devices are going to result in all of us being less fit :p

Son of a bitch. So it wasn't McDonald's fault! They've been trying to tell us all along and we wouldn't listen!
 
Son of a bitch. So it wasn't McDonald's fault! They've been trying to tell us all along and we wouldn't listen!

Hey, if we all carried IBM Portable PC Model 5100's around with us, we'd be in a lot better shape as a nation :p

95e5d89972edc4a7b55af1370b060689.jpeg
 
Zarathustra[H];1039041239 said:
Not all browsing involves typing a ton.

Some people like reading.

When on the forums I use a real keyboard. When reading I ahve no problem using a tablet (but I don't own one).

To me laptop keyboards are not much better than touch screens though. They are absolutely terrible compared to real keyboards.

In this debate over tablets and desktops and touch screens and physical keyboards it often seems that the only thing people are attempting to do is just pump out as much text as possible. That's simply not the only thing that people do with computers.

As for laptop keyboards there are some that really a very good, I love the keyboards on ThinkPads, I'm just has happy typing on it as just about larger keyboard. Though it looks likes Lenovo has gone with a chicklet style keyboard on new ThinkPad models, I hear that it's still good but some are saying they like the older model better. Can't ever make everyone happy with change it seems.
 
Zarathustra[H];1039041239 said:
Not all browsing involves typing a ton.

Some people like reading.

When on the forums I use a real keyboard. When reading I ahve no problem using a tablet (but I don't own one).

To me laptop keyboards are not much better than touch screens though. They are absolutely terrible compared to real keyboards.

I find laptop keyboards a world better than touch screens.. and maybe not all browsing involves a ton of typing, but that's different for each individual. I myself generally find myself chatting with some old buddies or on forums a lot. Furthermore I keep open around 50-100 tabs in FF at all times cause a simple browsing session generally starts off at one place and ends up ten miles away on some completely different path with a lot of hills and meandering rivers that lead me there. I don't believe I would enjoy navigating my tabs or manipulating the browser windows/ tabs if I were confined to a tablet's touch screen.

I personally haven't spent much time with tablets and frankly don't want to. If I want to do something useless or portable, my phone handles my needs. Anything requiring more can easily be handled by my laptop or desktop. I find no reason to carry along a tablet.. when I already carry around a smartphone that can do 90% of what a tablet can. That extra three inches of screen doesn't warrant me carrying around the useless piece of shit.
 
People type on laptops and care very much they weigh. I think the point you're trying to make is that people don't carry desktop keyboards around thus weight isn't a consideration.

The keyboard is such an insignificant portion of a laptops weight this isn't even a talking point. Have you ever replaced a laptop keyboard? I am pretty sure most wireless mice weigh more then most laptop keyboards.

Back on topic..

of course a successor is already in the works. That is pretty standard development cycle. Nothing to see here, carry on. As mentioned before, I would be surprised if they Weren't already working on the next version.

Next version I would like to see as follows.

Windows 9 Professional - Standard windows pricing, standard non touch device interface and all the bells and whistles of a productivity OS.
Windows 9 Home - Same as above minus the typical stuff cut out from business to home. Like it or not, we need to have a version for the elcheapo machines.
Windows 9 Touch Edition - next iteration of Win 8 heavily optimized for touch only devices and priced to be competitive in this field.

Now an option I would love to see so the Win 8 supporters aren't bitching is that if you own both versions that when you sync up your mobile device to your desktop, it gives you the option of sharing the mobile desktop between the space or visa versa. I unlike some of the die hard win 8 supporters around here am an advocate for choice. If people like that interface, well more power to them and I say let them use it. For those of us that do not, we aren't forced to deal with it.

If microsoft wants to be competitive in the touch space, they need to have a compelling product that is competitive in price. Not a product that is simply crammed down everyoness throats.
 
The keyboard is such an insignificant portion of a laptops weight this isn't even a talking point. Have you ever replaced a laptop keyboard? I am pretty sure most wireless mice weigh more then most laptop keyboards.

Yes, I've replaced laptop keyboards. I was talking about weight in general and specifically external mobile keyboards. Weight is definitely a consideration for those.

If microsoft wants to be competitive in the touch space, they need to have a compelling product that is competitive in price. Not a product that is simply crammed down everyoness throats.

Well first of all, we don't know what the prices of these devices are right now, there's some rumors going around that the prices will not only be competitive but industry altering for the Surface. We'll see shortly.

While some will look at Windows 8 as forcing something on people there's still the undeniable uncertainty that's hit the PC industry especially in light of tablets. There's simply no indication that keyboard and mouse driven only devices are going to see significant growth ever again. If the traditional PC market were growing healthy growth of 5 to 10 a year then I guarantee that Windows 8 would be a much different product than it is.
 
Yes, I've replaced laptop keyboards. I was talking about weight in general and specifically external mobile keyboards. Weight is definitely a consideration for those.



Well first of all, we don't know what the prices of these devices are right now, there's some rumors going around that the prices will not only be competitive but industry altering for the Surface. We'll see shortly.

While some will look at Windows 8 as forcing something on people there's still the undeniable uncertainty that's hit the PC industry especially in light of tablets. There's simply no indication that keyboard and mouse driven only devices are going to see significant growth ever again. If the traditional PC market were growing healthy growth of 5 to 10 a year then I guarantee that Windows 8 would be a much different product than it is.

You don't carry an external mobile keyboard except for devices that don't have a physical keyboard. The ones who do that aren't going to be changing their mind about touch keyboards in win 8 any more then anything already out there. If you happen to be one of those extremely rare people carrying an external keyboard for a laptop that already has one, you also aren't exactly in the "touch" market. So no, the weight of a keyboard is a rather moot point. We are talking about entirely different demographics here.

As for competition in the marketplace, I wasn't referring only to hardware. Microsoft could very easily compete in software as well. While you might not have a choice on apple, the android platform could very easily be installed on. The hardware is fairly standard, the drivers could very easily be built in and if priced right I would bet quite a few would be willing if not eager to try it out. I know I would certainly be eager to give Win 8 a spin on my Asus Transformer so I could see first hand how it performed against android on like hardware. While those like me might be a small market, the various small markets that microsoft could interest become a large market quite quickly.

Right now MS has tunnel vision with Win 8. It is basically their way or the highway with how it works. While that worked for apple, I think MS is severely mistaken if they believe their customer base is going to take that type of treatment happily. There is already mounting angst and backlash building around Win8 and it is gaining momentum. That momentum can easily topple the OS no matter how good it is. Take Vista for example, it was a very good OS. However some early hiccups, poor third party support, a blistering market campaign by apple and there are still people calling Vista a shit OS despite the fact that after SP1 and especially SP2 once setup properly it simply blew XP out of the water. Microsoft no matter how badly they want to push this unified interface needs to wake up unless they want another Vista and Project Mojave on their hands forcing them to shove Win 9 out quickly.

Once again....Windows 8 is a fantastic mobile platform. If given the chance I can see it quickly rivaling Android and IOS. However IF Ms continues to shove it into a market that has made it clear it isn't interested in that kind of change, then Win 8 is going to die before it ever gets off the ground due to bad press. If Win 8 gets eaten alive in the laptop and desktop world before MS gains any market penetration in the mobile, then you can bet you ass it will flop just as badly as WP7.
 
As for competition in the marketplace, I wasn't referring only to hardware. Microsoft could very easily compete in software as well. While you might not have a choice on apple, the android platform could very easily be installed on. The hardware is fairly standard, the drivers could very easily be built in and if priced right I would bet quite a few would be willing if not eager to try it out. I know I would certainly be eager to give Win 8 a spin on my Asus Transformer so I could see first hand how it performed against android on like hardware. While those like me might be a small market, the various small markets that microsoft could interest become a large market quite quickly.

There are just a lot of issues with this. One of the biggest is that mobile devices are tied to heavily to services to help subsidize the cost. There's no way Google or Amazon would sell $200 devices are near zero profit only to have people put another OS not tied to their ecosystems.

Right now MS has tunnel vision with Win 8. It is basically their way or the highway with how it works. While that worked for apple, I think MS is severely mistaken if they believe their customer base is going to take that type of treatment happily. There is already mounting angst and backlash building around Win8 and it is gaining momentum. That momentum can easily topple the OS no matter how good it is. Take Vista for example, it was a very good OS. However some early hiccups, poor third party support, a blistering market campaign by apple and there are still people calling Vista a shit OS despite the fact that after SP1 and especially SP2 once setup properly it simply blew XP out of the water. Microsoft no matter how badly they want to push this unified interface needs to wake up unless they want another Vista and Project Mojave on their hands forcing them to shove Win 9 out quickly.

If Windows 8 were another keyboard and mouse only OS would any one really care? If Microsoft were to release a separate mobile OS totally independent of Windows desktop (I know RT is but I'm talking about Windows 8 specifically here) would anyone really care? The PC is simply at a cross roads now and the future of computing seems to be in the world of mobile. Not that the desktop is going away but there's just no indication that it will be center of the computing world for most people. If satisfying people who grumble were the key to success, then I think the world would be a lot more full of success. Sometimes you have to look at the real world and take some risks. Playing safe is to large extent why Microsoft is behind in the mobile world and why Windows is quickly becoming overshadowed by mobile devices and is loosing relevance to consumers.

Once again....Windows 8 is a fantastic mobile platform. If given the chance I can see it quickly rivaling Android and IOS. However IF Ms continues to shove it into a market that has made it clear it isn't interested in that kind of change, then Win 8 is going to die before it ever gets off the ground due to bad press. If Win 8 gets eaten alive in the laptop and desktop world before MS gains any market penetration in the mobile, then you can bet you ass it will flop just as badly as WP7.

How in the world the market shown anything like this considering Windows 8 isn't even a retail product at the moment with no shipping devices? And as for bad press they've still just barely seen a finished product and no shipping hardware. Windows 8 is very much tied to hardware unlike any previous version. Indeed what's going to sell Windows 8 are devices that are unlike anything most consumers have seen or used before.
 
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