Question regarding the job market for CCNA-certified or any Cisco-certification?

I was CCNA-certified a few years ago and couldn't get a job anywhere. All the jobs around my area-- Southern California-- required a "minimum of two or four years in a related field."

I'm wondering how is the job market nowadays for someone with CCNA certification or other Cisco certifications?

(Also, what's the point of minimum X years in a related field? How do you get experience in a related field if no one hires you in the first place for such a job?)

Same situation here, experience trumps certs. and companies don't want to train for positions, they want someone as overqualified as possible to come in and take the position.

I actually finished up a phenomenal book recently, and I'd highly recommend reading it, as it explains in detail, the *new* job market.

http://www.amazon.com/Good-People-Cant-Jobs-ebook/dp/B00850ZOKI

It's very hard to judge the entire US market as a whole. Some are better then others.

In most areas there are more job seekers then open jobs, so employers can be pickier about who they hire and what qualifications they ask for. Yeah that's why you see ridiculous sounding things like "X years experience" on a job marked "entry level". Just keep on job searching, if you see jobs that you may not be 100% qualified for, apply anyway. I don't mean jobs you'd be lost in but jobs where you don't match up with everything they are asking for. The worse they can do is not hire you. Talk to recruitment firms in your area which hire on behalf of companies. Remember that companies care more about your personality, how you work with others, etc then the specific technical skills you have. Don't forget to read the IT resume thread.

Join the Army. They dont care if you are a dumbass certified or not. CCNA is a bonus because then the Army will pay to send you to CCNP.

Just saying...

or the ChairForce. They will take you but only if you are certified dumbass.

I am a naval veteran btw, first hand experience.

Seriously, I own a small business and let me tell you, I have quizzed people with Microsoft Certs as high as you can shake em, I have queried CCNA/NP on paper with no experience, and all of the answers I get is book knowledge with no hands on so I laugh and respectfully do not call them back. I totally agree with companies wanting real experience and in fact even if you lie and say you have it truth will be told during your interview. A real IT Veteran will see through the fact that all the book knowledge certifications mean NOTHING unless you have had to work on projects dealing with real money, real deadlines, really easily pissed customers, and a bottom line based on profit so you can get paid as well.

Oh and GOD FORBID you answer a question that is against capitalism, profit earning, or anything of the nature because that means you are NOT cut out for the workforce and you need to go to the welfare office and complain how socialism is for you. Do not ever admit that you hate capitalism no matter what college has dumped into your 24 year old skull of mushy gray matter. Because companies do not want little "give me the world for free" mentalities. And I am in no way claiming anyone here has shown that.

Certifications are NOT a substitute for experience. Certifications enhance experience. The better route is to get a few years experience, then go and get certified. This will make you far more employable.

Here is the analogy I like to use: Technical certifications are like vocabulary tests; I can memorize the dictionary, but that doesn't mean I'm going to win a Pulitzer. Just because I know every word in existence, doesn't mean I can form them into coherent, thoughtful sentences. Its much easier to teach a smart person new vocabulary than it is to teach someone with a large, wrote, memorized vocabulary how to think.

It seems like most of the networking people around here started in lower end help desk roles that gave them access to networking projects. That is how you get your experience, which can then be parlayed into certifications and a specialized networking job.

tangoseal said:

Oh and GOD FORBID you answer a question that is against capitalism, profit earning, or anything of the nature because that means you are NOT cut out for the workforce and you need to go to the welfare office and complain how socialism is for you. Do not ever admit that you hate capitalism no matter what college has dumped into your 24 year old skull of mushy gray matter. Because companies do not want little "give me the world for free" mentalities. And I am in no way claiming anyone here has shown that.

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Someone has an axe to grind. Holy rant - did ya stop taking your meds this week? Go back to the Tea Party rally with that crap

Anyway, on topic - in my experience (in a limited tech market - central Canada) most employers don't weigh a CCNA that highly, especially without any experience. The hard and fast truth is that you have to take your lumps being a helpdesk drone for 2-4 years before anyone will give you anything better. And helpdesk jobs (in my market) aren't much better than corporate call centers when it comes to starting salary.

My Advice : If you're young and not hard up for cash, find some local SMB (100-1000 employees) who needs a general Helpdesk guy - you'll get experience and likely get a lot of exposure to things you'd be shielded from in a larger enterprise environment.

gangolfus said:

Certifications are NOT a substitute for experience. Certifications enhance experience. The better route is to get a few years experience, then go and get certified. This will make you far more employable.

Here is the analogy I like to use: Technical certifications are like vocabulary tests; I can memorize the dictionary, but that doesn't mean I'm going to win a Pulitzer. Just because I know every word in existence, doesn't mean I can form them into coherent, thoughtful sentences. Its much easier to teach a smart person new vocabulary than it is to teach someone with a large, wrote, memorized vocabulary how to think.

It seems like most of the networking people around here started in lower end help desk roles that gave them access to networking projects. That is how you get your experience, which can then be parlayed into certifications and a specialized networking job.

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This job market is a complete catch-22. It's sad and really discourages me.

That's the thing: How do you get experience? I've applied to and tried help desk and customer support jobs. I wouldn't get hired. Even a place like Geek Squad wouldn't hire me. PC Club, when they existed, wouldn't hire me.

Many places tell me I'm "overqualified" for the position I was applying for like customer service representative or something as silly as a stockboy in Walmart. Then, I'd get the "underqualified" excuse from other employers. It's stupid.

I've grown up with the mentality that you must get that certification and that college degree first before I apply for a job. And, a company expects me to have job experience in a related field when I never had a job in such or couldn't get hired in one? That's absolute bullshit.

And, I'm not joining the Army.

"Tangoseal" is a good example of some of the employers I've had to deal with. I'm willing to learn and I'm self-taught. Heck, I do computer hardware and tech support on the side just to make extra money. The only semi-steady job I've had was being a tax preparer since 2010, but it's only seasonal.

The worst experience I've had was applying for a unit clerk and monitor technician job at local hospitals. I have both basic arrhythmia and BLS/CPR certification. Kaiser-Permanente, for example, told me straight out that I should apply to a smaller hospital. Ok, I do that and the smallest hospital in my area is Parkview Community. They wouldn't hire me either, and they gave me a similar response: That I should apply to a smaller hospital. I've applied to hospitals in Los Angeles and Orange County. And, that's a lot of hospitals honestly. No one would hire me.

I've also taken real estate licensing courses, but had the unfortunate bad luck to have done it right before the housing market crashed.

I've applied for just about anything since I got out of college:

• College lab tech in Biology Department
• Teaching assistant
• Customer service representative
• CCNA/Network administration
• Technical and PC support
• Help desk
• Stockboy
• Cashier
• Administrative assistant
• Customer support
• Monitor technician
• Librarian
• Librarian assistant
• Real estate agent
• Tax preparer (Only job I've gotten hired at.)
• Delivery or courier positions
• Fast food employee positions
• Hotel reservation
• Restaurant Server and Waiter
• Bookkeeper

I'm tempted to try teaching but I have to get a certification for that and some extra schooling plus an AS or BA degree.

I'm 31, soon-to-be 32, years old and haven't had a steady job since coming out of college. It's absolutely depressing.

I am self-taught in Microsoft Office software since Office 97, Adobe Flash and Photoshop. I am rated by a city-ran typing test at 72 to 79 (peak) WPM. I am self-taught in computer hardware and software installation since the Intel 286 days, including diagnosing and repairing issues. I am self-taught and have work experience thanks to being a tax preparer and a volunteer at a hospital's admitting department in using fax machines, copiers, filing, answering phones, and other office duties.

Still, I can't get a job anywhere.

That's why I'm here asking how is the market for CCNA-certified people. Are companies hiring for that position? Is it worth spending the $800 to $1200-plus to go back to a vocational school and get re-educated for a CCNA certification?

A friend joked to me a few years ago: "You should just get arrested and go to jail for life. At least you'll get meals daily and won't have to worry about a job."

My sister, who has a successful job at a court reporting firm for the last six years and no bachelors or associates degree told me a couple months ago: "Lie on resume. I didn't lie but I've been working since high school, but it might work for you." That's the thing: I have very strict parents during high school that refused to let me work while going to school. It's why I've graduated summa cum laude with a 4.3 GPA. I have literally grown up being a bookworm, a geek, and a nerd.

I'm in similar positions with three friends I know. We all have bachelor's degrees but we cannot get a job in the fields we studied for. One is a mechanical engineer and is working as a manager for Domno's Pizza. Another has been laid off 11 times in the past 6 years. And, the last one has been in-and-out of jobs for the last 8 years.

My two real life friends that live an hour away, one has not held a steady, permanent job in the last 14 years. He's applied to everything from customer service representative to welder. Nothing permanent from the jobs he applied to. His longest job was an 8 month temp job as a courier for a law firm. The other is an airline mechanic, but his job isn't stable from what he tells me and can be laid off at any time. He is dreading that moment is going to come.

I guess I'll try help desk again. I've been applying to every job from San Diego to Seattle, and from Los Angeles to Boston, and everywhere else in-between.

octoberasian said:

words

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I'm working on the assumption that SoCal is slightly different than my experiences in life, but the job market sounds pretty terrible.

The catch-22 is very true in most industries, other than ones with a solid ruling body or certification (ex - Nursing, Medical Techs, etc). However most people can find entry level work around here - for my area pretty much anyone with a tech job follows the same trajectory - work 1-3 years in a call center as a TSR (big ones locally include Microsoft support, Comcast, Shaw Cable), move up to a entry level role with an SMB, Tech shop (even GeekSquad is something), or Enterprise, and let yourself grow from there.

This is all anecdotal and could be the worst advice ever, but it seems to work around here.

I would highly recommend taking your CCNA off your resume for lower level jobs until you have more experience in a help-desk/tech support field. That sounds weird, but it's causing you a problem. Most employers expect previous experience BEFORE a CCNA is acquired. Anywhere you get hired would love to hear that you're CCNA certified, but you can bring that up later. Very simple solution to your catch-22, though it hurts the ego.

Protoform-X said:

I would highly recommend taking your CCNA off your resume for lower level jobs until you have more experience in a help-desk/tech support field. That sounds weird, but it's causing you a problem. Most employers expect previous experience BEFORE a CCNA is acquired. Anywhere you get hired would love to hear that you're CCNA certified, but you can bring that up later. Very simple solution to your catch-22, though it hurts the ego.

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This was going to be my next bit of advice. If you are using the same resume for a stockboy and a network engineer job, you are doing something wrong. I agree that you should lie on your resume... lie by omission. For each individual position, tailor your resume so that it meets the job requirements. I'm am absolutely in no way stating you should lie about having experience on something you know nothing about, but your resume doesn't have to contain every single fact and accomplishment you have achieved. You are highly unlikely to get fired for not mentioning that you have a certification, but you could get fired for claiming a certification that you don't actually have.

gangolfus said:

This was going to be my next bit of advice. If you are using the same resume for a stockboy and a network engineer job, you are doing something wrong. I agree that you should lie on your resume... lie by omission. For each individual position, tailor your resume so that it meets the job requirements. I'm am absolutely in no way stating you should lie about having experience on something you know nothing about, but your resume doesn't have to contain every single fact and accomplishment you have achieved. You are highly unlikely to get fired for not mentioning that you have a certification, but you could get fired for claiming a certification that you don't actually have.

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My resumes don't have a mention of CCNA anywhere especially since I have to get re-certified anyway. My latest resume, which I decided to do as an experiment, was omit college education given many employers looked at someone with a bachelors as being "overqualified."

One of my friends including my sister suggested to me that an employer will least likely consider someone with a bachelors than someone with only a high school education. Why? The employer would assume the one with more education and skills would expect a higher pay for doing the same job, and would rather hire the fresh-out-of-high school applicant given he can be paid less. I have read a similar news article regarding that. My sister, started working as a restaurant server in her Junior year of high school before graduating. She worked for two more restaurants while in college before she dropped out two years after high school graduation. She ended up getting a job at a court reporting firm, and she now makes $31,000 a year at her job.

No college education. Only job experience was working in restaurants.

Even my Business Communications (BUS-22 here) instructor told my class that your resumes should be tailored to the job you're applying to. And, I am doing that. I don't put everything on my resumes and job applications. I change my resume for each job I apply to by omitting certain pieces of information. I literally have seven resumes on hand.

However, it's not working.

It's why I've resorted now to omitting any mention of a college education especially since the bachelors degree I have is not getting me anywhere, and certain skills for certain jobs I apply to. If the job asks for office experience, I list my experience in that area while omitting any technical support-related skills I have. I do it vice-versa for customer support jobs.

But, I've noticed a trend, a pattern if you will, that if a job only says a high school education is required, the business seems to hire someone that's not highly educated or someone with a college degree. That allows them to pay them minimum wage or just above it. I've been trying that for the past few months for certain jobs. It's slow going but hopefully someone will bite.

@Innocence:

On-topic:

octoberasian said:

One of my friends including my sister suggested to me that an employer will least likely consider someone with a bachelors than someone with only a high school education. Why? The employer would assume the one with more education and skills would expect a higher pay for doing the same job, and would rather hire the fresh-out-of-high school applicant given he can be paid less. I have read a similar news article regarding that.

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The issue isn't only of higher pay, but expected duration of employment. If you've got a doctorate from Harvard in quantum mechanics and you are applying to be a greeter at Walmart, you are probably only looking for temporary employment and will continue job searching while you are doing the menial job and jump ship as soon as the better job comes along. Most employers want to hire people that will, theoretically at least, retire with the company.

Out of curiosity, how are you explaining the time between graduating from high school and now if you don't mention college? You are 31... what have you been doing for the last decade?

Innocence said:

Someone has an axe to grind. Holy rant - did ya stop taking your meds this week? Go back to the Tea Party rally with that crap

Anyway, on topic - in my experience (in a limited tech market - central Canada) most employers don't weigh a CCNA that highly, especially without any experience. The hard and fast truth is that you have to take your lumps being a helpdesk drone for 2-4 years before anyone will give you anything better. And helpdesk jobs (in my market) aren't much better than corporate call centers when it comes to starting salary.

My Advice : If you're young and not hard up for cash, find some local SMB (100-1000 employees) who needs a general Helpdesk guy - you'll get experience and likely get a lot of exposure to things you'd be shielded from in a larger enterprise environment.

Click to expand...

You live in Canada? Anyways I was ranting because I have had to sit through interviews and I have heard the bias that people have towards capitalism and it never goes well for them. Like I say do not admit that in an interview even if you believe it. That is about all I was referring to. I might have went a little overboard sure. Forgive me haha.

octoberasian said:

My resumes don't have a mention of CCNA anywhere especially since I have to get re-certified anyway. My latest resume, which I decided to do as an experiment, was omit college education given many employers looked at someone with a bachelors as being "overqualified."

One of my friends including my sister suggested to me that an employer will least likely consider someone with a bachelors than someone with only a high school education. Why? The employer would assume the one with more education and skills would expect a higher pay for doing the same job, and would rather hire the fresh-out-of-high school applicant given he can be paid less. I have read a similar news article regarding that. My sister, started working as a restaurant server in her Junior year of high school before graduating. She worked for two more restaurants while in college before she dropped out two years after high school graduation. She ended up getting a job at a court reporting firm, and she now makes $31,000 a year at her job.

No college education. Only job experience was working in restaurants.

Even my Business Communications (BUS-22 here) instructor told my class that your resumes should be tailored to the job you're applying to. And, I am doing that. I don't put everything on my resumes and job applications. I change my resume for each job I apply to by omitting certain pieces of information. I literally have seven resumes on hand.

However, it's not working.

It's why I've resorted now to omitting any mention of a college education especially since the bachelors degree I have is not getting me anywhere, and certain skills for certain jobs I apply to. If the job asks for office experience, I list my experience in that area while omitting any technical support-related skills I have. I do it vice-versa for customer support jobs.

But, I've noticed a trend, a pattern if you will, that if a job only says a high school education is required, the business seems to hire someone that's not highly educated or someone with a college degree. That allows them to pay them minimum wage or just above it. I've been trying that for the past few months for certain jobs. It's slow going but hopefully someone will bite.

@Innocence:

California is third in the country in terms of high unemployment rates. Our state hovers between 10% to 12% unemployment rate. Where I live, it hovers around 10% to 11% in the state.​

On-topic:

If there isn't a market for someone with no experience and a CCNA certification, then I'll probably not consider applying for those jobs and get re-certified given I can't even get hired for a help desk position.​

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Help desk and CCNA is not enough? I would certainly hire you for help desk with that certfication for about $12.00 an hour.

You're overthinking about how employers are going to view your resume. It sounds like you should be looking at how you wrote your resume. Like I said hit up the IT Resume thread.

tangoseal said:

You live in Canada? Anyways I was ranting because I have had to sit through interviews and I have heard the bias that people have towards capitalism and it never goes well for them. Like I say do not admit that in an interview even if you believe it. That is about all I was referring to. I might have went a little overboard sure. Forgive me haha.

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Unless you are looking for a job in the financial sector, how does this even come up in an interview? If you are talking politics in an interview and it doesn't directly relate to the position, you need to seriously reconsider your interviewing style.

The stepping stone for most people I know was the help desk. My completely uneducated (UK) view is that this has been eroded over time due to offshoring work such that it is harder for people to gain that real life experience.

If you don't like the army still look at other areas of US Govt, local or national as its typically not politically acceptable for those to offshore any work.

Btw, I do have different resumes depending which job I am going for. Maybe that is something to look at?

Maybe the problem isn't your resume or that you have a CCNA with no experience but you?

I have a CCNA with only 2 years of experience working as a system admin in the local school district. I've been out of work for a year mainly because I'm military depend now and it doesn't matter if I have job cause I'm stuck where I'm at. So I have been thinking where I want to work next year since my wife is getting out. Anyway, I just e-mailed the IT Manager for CENIC which is located in Los Angeles. They handle majority of the ISP infrastructure for all the school districts in CA.

I asked him the same thing you just asked us. I told him I didn't have any real CISCO experience beyond my home lab. Here was his reply, "To answer your question, yes we do hire people with out "real world" experience. We look for aptitude and abilities, just as much as skill sets". He told me to e-mail him when I was ready to move and he would take it from there.

So the point of this story is that you got to want it. Start right now and just e-mail every IT company in your city or near-by. There is tons of CCNA with "no experience" jobs in CA. You just got to make some sacrifice to make it happen.

In the 20 years experience I have had in the computer field here, certifications as only good for masking incompetence.

@ OP:

Why are you so against joining an armed service to get some job experience? Doesn't sound like you're having much luck on your own. I went from being an unexeperienced 19 year old, to a 23 year old with multiple certs, job experience and a TS clearance while having a blast the whole time in the Air Force. Got out after 4 and haven't made less than 100k per year since, though my job locations leave a bit to be desired Just my 2 cents.

402blownstroker said:

In the 20 years experience I have had in the computer field here, certifications as only good for masking incompetence.

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Care to explain further? I fail to see how passing a standardized test is a good way to "mask incompetence".

Don't get me wrong - it's far from the be-all-end-all of education standards, but it's something. On the flip side, everyone I know who has JUST experience is an absolute non-technical knob. Once in a while folks need to prove they know something beyond delegating tasks to subordinates.

Innocence said:

Care to explain further? I fail to see how passing a standardized test is a good way to "mask incompetence".

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3 reasons: (although there are many, many more)

1) With brain dumps, every single available question is now available on the interwebz to be memorized. Passing a standardized test means you have a good memory, not that you know anything.

2) Standardized tests do not in any way simulate an actual work environment. Debugging an issue is totally different when your boss calls you at 3am because the company is actively losing business. Being able to fix an issue when given it as theoretic scenario is not anywhere near the same.

3) Technical tests can't test people skills. Dealing with unruly customers and trying to get requirements from a business stakeholder who has absolutely no idea what they are talking about are skills that can only be obtained through actual work experience.

Acing a standardized test does not in anyway mean you will be a good employee. Book smarts are only useful when paired with street smarts. This is why it is recommended that you get some experience before a certification.

^^ This. Just had an employee pass the CCNA. Last week he couldnt tell a router from a switch in our company.

gangolfus said:

3 reasons: (although there are many, many more)

1) With brain dumps, every single available question is now available on the interwebz to be memorized. Passing a standardized test means you have a good memory, not that you know anything.

2) Standardized tests do not in any way simulate an actual work environment. Debugging an issue is totally different when your boss calls you at 3am because the company is actively losing business. Being able to fix an issue when given it as theoretic scenario is not anywhere near the same.

3) Technical tests can't test people skills. Dealing with unruly customers and trying to get requirements from a business stakeholder who has absolutely no idea what they are talking about are skills that can only be obtained through actual work experience.

Acing a standardized test does not in anyway mean you will be a good employee. Book smarts are only useful when paired with street smarts. This is why it is recommended that you get some experience before a certification.

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1 - True, and true of all tests - High School, University, Med School, the Bar Exam, and so on. This is an unavoidable aspect of written testing - it doesn't mean that all testing is instantly nullified though.

2 - That's not the point of the test or certification. That's why it's a CCNA test, and not a "IT environment at Company 1 Inc." test. That test comes when you have a job at Company 1 Inc.

3 - Again, that's not the point of the test - if you think that any test can tell you the people skills of a potential employee you're delusional.


So your problem with Certifications appears to be that they aren't iron clad guarantees that a company can hire someone then immediately stop paying attention to their real abilities in that particular environment. Good Luck with that.

And to clarify - I agree that experience and good references are the more important part of the equation, but certifications shouldn't be discounted.