Why Microsoft Killed the Windows Start Button

nOrVow said:
hot? :confused:

He looks derpy as hell!
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Hot:
14790_Steve_Ballmer_Developers.png

So NYAH NYAH!!!
618px-Steve-ballmer.jpg
 
KENNYB said:
Wait, the Surface is like an iPad, and like a laptop, but few PC users have ever seen anything like it? Oh boy...
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KENNYB said:
PC users have not seen a Windows OS running (well) on a tablet.
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Yep, oh boy. I show my Windows tablets all of the time. Sure people have seen iPads and laptops but as you said they've not seen a PC that runs all Windows apps. they've not seen a PC that can play Angry Birds on a touch screen, they've not seen a PC that you can write on just like paper and that instantly turns handwriting into text and even has an application that looks like a paper notebook.

KENNYB said:
As for the actual hardware, PC users will see the cost of a nice tablet, which won't be the deal they expected, and still complain that Macs cost too much.
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And this will be the million dollar question, what will be the price and performance level on Atom based tablets. They'll obvisouly be the cheapest x86 devices and hit around the price of iPads I think but of course Windows has usually chugged on Atom CPUs, but the new ones are supposed to be much better and Windows 8 is a bit faster than Windows 7. We'll see.
 
TechLarry said:
Ah, bullshit. This is just damage control. If it was really the reason they would have said so from the very start. A bunch of people at MS sat around a big Mahogany table and came up with this fluff.

I NEVER pin to the taskbar. I hate the way Windows 7 combines things when programs are pinned down there. It's too hard to see what's going on with just a glance.

When I install Win7 the first thing I do is remove the pre-pinned stuff, re-enable the quick launch bar, and then what programs I want quick access to I pin to the START menu, not the task bar.
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Haha :) You just quoted exactly what I do when I need to install Windows 7 fresh. I'm like someone else here who has an almost "naked" taskbar and desktop. On my desktop, I have an icon for my browser, the recycle bin and a folder filled with shortcuts to my games. That's it. I don't even use gadgets. My taskbar is bare aside from whatever application(s) I have currently open (I don't have anything pinned to it); because I simply like a streamlined "feel" while I'm using my PC.

All the apps that I frequent most (aside from my games) get pinned to the Start menu. Everything else... stays in the Start Menu tree until I need to access it. Heck, I don't even like clutter in my notifications area and keep it to a bare minimum (clock, date, wifi signal, sound).

The point is... with the way it was before, people have adopted different "styles" that work best for their specific needs/preferences. The least MS could have done was to leave that sense of customization in tact, so (most) people can work in manner they feel most comfortable with. Gonna take me awhile to get used to the new interface (if I even decide to leave Windows 7, that is).
 
I don't know about everyone else.. but when I open a start menu I already know what I "want" to open... typing for me is much faster then visually finding what I want through a list (be it win7 or win8 menues).

I've never had to "navigate" the start menu on windows 7... so I don't have a problem using windows 8.
As long as my applications don't run in metro.

1.Start menu button on my keyboard.
2.type name of program I want
3.press enter
4.???
5.Profit

I now hate using win xp and SBS2003 start menus.. because I know what I want to click, but I have to look for it... very annoying.
 
Druneau said:
I don't know about everyone else.. but when I open a start menu I already know what I "want" to open... typing for me is much faster then visually finding what I want through a list (be it win7 or win8 menues).

I've never had to "navigate" the start menu on windows 7... so I don't have a problem using windows 8.
As long as my applications don't run in metro.

1.Start menu button on my keyboard.
2.type name of program I want
3.press enter
4.???
5.Profit

I now hate using win xp and SBS2003 start menus.. because I know what I want to click, but I have to look for it... very annoying.
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LOL

First world problems
 
Druneau said:
I don't know about everyone else.. but when I open a start menu I already know what I "want" to open... typing for me is much faster then visually finding what I want through a list (be it win7 or win8 menues).

I've never had to "navigate" the start menu on windows 7... so I don't have a problem using windows 8.
As long as my applications don't run in metro.

1.Start menu button on my keyboard.
2.type name of program I want
3.press enter
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As long as i can still do this in win 8, i don't care if the start menu is gone. Why didn't they just put a search bar in the corner instead of a windows button though?
 
krogen said:
Umm... Do the same thing a million times and a couple million seconds went down the drain.

It is an issue. Looking for stuff prohibits productivity.
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Pinning to start menu or task bar or using the search feature prohibits looking for stuff.

Say all you want about the new Start Menu, but it's still alphabeticalized like the old.
 
heatlesssun said:
Yep, oh boy. I show my Windows tablets all of the time. Sure people have seen iPads and laptops but as you said they've not seen a PC that runs all Windows apps. they've not seen a PC that can play Angry Birds on a touch screen, they've not seen a PC that you can write on just like paper and that instantly turns handwriting into text and even has an application that looks like a paper notebook.
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I think you better re-read what I said. I said, "PC users have not seen a Windows OS running (well) on a tablet". I've seen tablets running Windows XP tablet edition. Uh yeah, no thanks. They used to be promoted more often in brick and mortar stores when tablets were supposed to be the-next-big thing. As for the handwriting into text, I saw that constantly while I was in college years more than 5 years ago.

I'm not actually an opponent of Windows 8. I look at it and hope that MS keeps the tablet stuff off the desktop and the desktop stuff off the tablet. Anyone remember MS keeping the desktop experience on XP tablets? It was a disaster. Now it seems MS actually wants to do the reverse.
 
Windows 8?, more like Blocks 8. This will be another Vista, you can't combine a Tablet OS to a Desktop OS.
 
Azhar said:
Pinning to start menu or task bar or using the search feature prohibits looking for stuff.

Say all you want about the new Start Menu, but it's still alphabeticalized like the old.
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I'm genuinely confused by this post. He wasn't speaking about the taskbar or start menu, but the search feature in the start menu/screen. Clarification please?

Nemesis429 said:
Windows 8?, more like Blocks 8. This will be another Vista, you can't combine a Tablet OS to a Desktop OS.
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This post was so original and you've added so much to the conversation. :rolleyes:
 
Nemesis429 said:
Windows 8?, more like Blocks 8.
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It is rather ironic that Microsoft is slowly turning away from the concept of having application windows in their OS called Windows. It also has some of the poorest window management facilities of any windowing system I've used (apart from Snap, which is a novel feature), so it's not as if the process of working with windows is particularly good.

It was a great name years ago, but the OS is no longer what its title suggests it should be about.
 
KENNYB said:
I've seen tablets running Windows XP tablet edition.
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If you honestly think that Windows XP is anything like Windows 8 then you've obviously not used Windows 8 on a tablet. I've used Windows on tablets since Windows for Pen Computing from 20 years ago. Windows 8 is by far the best tablet concept that Microsoft has ever developed. And what's remarkable from my standpoint is how little it actually interferes with the desktop and allows tablet apps to work with keyboards and mice.

This effort may fail but it HAD to be tried. I simply don't believed that the idea that there are tablets computers that only work with touch well and that there are desktops computers well is an enduring idea. 30 years ago many people thought there would mouse and keyboard computers and keyboard only driven computers. The idea that a general purpose computer only works well with some of common input methods isn't really the history on computers. Even to this day many will swear up and down that keyboard only interfaces are worth a damn. And in a odd way Windows 8 validates what those people are saying because the keyboard interface of Windows 8 is almost exactly the same of Windows 7 and just as efficient in every manner.
 
Tudz said:
No, it really didn't.
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It absolutely had to be tried. We live in a world of especially today that is risk adverse. Microsoft is taking one of the biggest risks for a company of its size with one of the greatest product ever developed in the history of humanity. It's called Windows, love it or hate it has made a lasting impact on this world to a degree beyond understanding. And to change it in the way that it is being changed with the assumption that Microsoft is trying to sell more copies of Windows than ever in the long term shows enormous balls.

Take a chance, do something radical, don't listen to the peanut gallery. At some level we all respect that sort of action even if we don't respect what that action means in particular.
 
I don't quite understand the psychology behind it, but the more you talk about Microsoft and how 'bold' they're being, the less willing I am to eventually place an order for a Surface Pro. The absolute gushing endorsement just turns my stomach.
 
Win8 thread, 500 replies from heatlesssun, all gushing endorsements. Does this guy work for Microsoft or what?
 
Yeah really... he's more of an evangelist than I am a hardcore Unix/Linux fan. lol It's like he's the Microsoft Stallman. :p
 
heatlesssun said:
It's called Windows
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Not anymore, it's called Window now.

Haha, I worked at the place as a vendor, a temp and a FTE for many years, and I can guarantee you that Microsoft managers never take risks, but subscribe fully to the Cover Your Ass policy.

Nobody is denying that touch should not happen, although it does seem a bit premature for the market, that's probably why MS is producing their own Surface slates.

I am just saying that there was no need to force a full screen Start screen in a totally different interface (with bad solid colors to boot) for users of desktop apps. I don't even care about the Start menu, just the obnoxious Start screen. The new Start screen is just as bad as the Start menu, as there is no more built-in tool to help you manage your apps as there was for the Start menu. It is barely an improvement from a usability perspective.

And no, I don't respect marketing decisions that do not respect me.
I finally got why they called the three public versions "previews", it's because they want to reserve the term "beta" for the commercial half-baked release...
 
wonderfield said:
I don't quite understand the psychology behind it, but the more you talk about Microsoft and how 'bold' they're being, the less willing I am to eventually place an order for a Surface Pro. The absolute gushing endorsement just turns my stomach.
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It never ceases to amaze me just how irrational and illogical Windows 8 haters are phide. As much as I've been declared a Microsoft fanboy/employee I've never said that Windows 8 would be unconditionally successful. I did however say on the day that the iPad was announced that the iPad would be successful if for no other reason than if Apple fans bought it which even in 2010 was an unconditional endorsement.

Say what you will about my Microsoft fanboy/employee status, I use Windows 8 daily in ways you and most haven't. Sorry to burst you're bubble but I've not seen the end of the computing universe and neither have you.

As a supposed Microsoft fanboy/employee I'm more than willing to say that Windows 8 will fail. I'm also willing to say that most of you have no idea what a Windows 8 really does beyond mice and keyboards phide.
 
heatlesssun said:
And yes, just give people the option to switch interfaces. The biggest issue with that is then what's the point of putting all of this stuff in Windows 8 just for people to turn off. If that's the case it would have been better for Microsoft to have kept windows 8 a keyboard and mouse only OS and developed a separate tablet OS.
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That is exactly what MS should have done.
 
Q1DM6 said:
Win8 thread, 500 replies from heatlesssun, all gushing endorsements. Does this guy work for Microsoft or what?
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And 5000 lies. Show me one place where I've endorsed Windows 8. Then show me how many times where I've said it might fail.

The people hating on Windows 8 are no more honest than Microsoft.
 
Steve01S4 said:
That is exactly what MS should have done.
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And I respect you honesty and you might be right. I tire of all the lies of and irrational debate. The bottom line is that Microsoft is taking a HUGE risk with the Windows 8, I don't know, you don't know, n body really knows how it will play out. It'll go into the market and we'll see. Just what a fanboy/employee would say. Really, some of you guys are way nuttier than I am.
 
Q1DM6 said:
:rolleyes:
The absurdity is reaching epic levels.
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Heatless is presenting what he feels is a moderated, realistic viewpoint given his interpertation of the market and how he's guessing it will respond to Windows 8 devices and products. Because he doesn't share the doom and gloom "this sucks" mentality of many people and presents his arguments with a certain degree of unnatural energy, it is easy to interpert him as heavily endorsing Windows 8 even though that isn't really the case. While his perspective is different than most others on this forum, I think he really is being pretty realistic about what might happen once it goes on sale and isn't the nutcase some people think he might be.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Heatless is presenting what he feels is a moderated, realistic viewpoint given his interpertation of the market and how he's guessing it will respond to Windows 8 devices and products. Because he doesn't share the doom and gloom "this sucks" mentality of many people and presents his arguments with a certain degree of unnatural energy, it is easy to interpert him as heavily endorsing Windows 8 even though that isn't really the case. While his perspective is different than most others on this forum, I think he really is being pretty realistic about what might happen once it goes on sale and isn't the nutcase some people think he might be.
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I don't think it's the intensity of his endorsements, but rather the never ending consistency. lol
 
Q1DM6 said:
:rolleyes:
The absurdity is reaching epic levels.
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And while it that may be the question still stands. Show me where I've endorsed Windows 8. You can't because I've not. And the absurdity continues.

I've simply used Windows 8 in ways that most people haven't and have I think I have a better understanding of Microsoft's strategy is.

What's amazing is the irrationality that people have over this subject. Again I have NO idea about the success of Windows 8 as I've said many, many times. Please stop with the lies about my endorsement and employment as Microsoft. Find ONE person that you know that works at Microsoft that's said repeatedly that Windows 8 might fail.

But I imagine the same people that accuse of Microsoft not listening will go on with their on tone deafness.

All I've said about the success of Windows 8 having used Windows on tablets long before most is that I think understand what Microsoft is doing with Windows 8 and it makes a lot of sense to me coming from that perspective. Windows 8 will do well, very well I think if the right hardware is there for the right price. I've said that over and over and over and over. Far from absurd and as honest an evaluation of Windows 8 from a perspective from a person that understands the history of Windows on tablets well as you'll find.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Heatless is presenting what he feels is a moderated, realistic viewpoint given his interpertation of the market and how he's guessing it will respond to Windows 8 devices and products. Because he doesn't share the doom and gloom "this sucks" mentality of many people and presents his arguments with a certain degree of unnatural energy, it is easy to interpert him as heavily endorsing Windows 8 even though that isn't really the case. While his perspective is different than most others on this forum, I think he really is being pretty realistic about what might happen once it goes on sale and isn't the nutcase some people think he might be.
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Thank You! Well:D articulated and pretty much where I'm coming from.
 
heatlesssun said:
It absolutely had to be tried. We live in a world of especially today that is risk adverse. Microsoft is taking one of the biggest risks for a company of its size with one of the greatest product ever developed in the history of humanity. It's called Windows, love it or hate it has made a lasting impact on this world to a degree beyond understanding. And to change it in the way that it is being changed with the assumption that Microsoft is trying to sell more copies of Windows than ever in the long term shows enormous balls.

Take a chance, do something radical, don't listen to the peanut gallery. At some level we all respect that sort of action even if we don't respect what that action means in particular.
Click to expand...

But they really didn't have to do what they did. They could have made a tablet version with a separate UI and based on the same underlying Windows. They didn't have to fuck with the old reliable desktop and start menu the way it was. Tablets and traditional desktops don't need a common UI to be interactive with each other.

I have no respect for doing something radical just for the sake of doing something radical.

You keep saying "they had to do it", but they really didn't. There was other options for getting into the tablet market if they wanted and it remains to be seen whether the tablet market is actually going to be the place to be in the future anyway.
 
heatlesssun said:
If you honestly think that Windows XP is anything like Windows 8 then you've obviously not used Windows 8 on a tablet. I've used Windows on tablets since Windows for Pen Computing from 20 years ago. Windows 8 is by far the best tablet concept that Microsoft has ever developed. And what's remarkable from my standpoint is how little it actually interferes with the desktop and allows tablet apps to work with keyboards and mice.

This effort may fail but it HAD to be tried. I simply don't believed that the idea that there are tablets computers that only work with touch well and that there are desktops computers well is an enduring idea. 30 years ago many people thought there would mouse and keyboard computers and keyboard only driven computers. The idea that a general purpose computer only works well with some of common input methods isn't really the history on computers. Even to this day many will swear up and down that keyboard only interfaces are worth a damn. And in a odd way Windows 8 validates what those people are saying because the keyboard interface of Windows 8 is almost exactly the same of Windows 7 and just as efficient in every manner.
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Way to totally miss what I said:
I think you better re-read what I said. I said, "PC users have not seen a Windows OS running (well) on a tablet". I've seen tablets running Windows XP tablet edition. Uh yeah, no thanks. They used to be promoted more often in brick and mortar stores when tablets were supposed to be the-next-big thing. As for the handwriting into text, I saw that constantly while I was in college years more than 5 years ago.

I'm not actually an opponent of Windows 8. I look at it and hope that MS keeps the tablet stuff off the desktop and the desktop stuff off the tablet. Anyone remember MS keeping the desktop experience on XP tablets? It was a disaster. Now it seems MS actually wants to do the reverse.
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I'm speaking for the people that have used released software, which Win8 isn't. XP tablet, failure as it was, lived much longer than Win7 on tablets.You even stated that Win7 tablets sucked compared to the Surface. I'll presume you meant to add Win8 is the reason Win7 tablets sucked compared to the Surface.
 
KENNYB said:
I'm speaking for the people that have used released software, which Win8 isn't. XP tablet, failure as it was, lived much longer than Win7 on tablets.You even stated that Win7 tablets sucked compared to the Surface. I'll presume you meant to add Win8 is the reason Win7 tablets sucked compared to the Surface.
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Huh? You said the last time you have seen Windows on a tablet was from software and hardware from a decade ago. I'm using Windows 8 on the best x86 tablet hardware less than a year old. Try that again because insulting it's not.
 
heatlesssun said:
All I've said about the success of Windows 8 having used Windows on tablets long before most is that I think understand what Microsoft is doing with Windows 8 and it makes a lot of sense to me coming from that perspective. Windows 8 will do well, very well I think if the right hardware is there for the right price. I've said that over and over and over and over. Far from absurd and as honest an evaluation of Windows 8 from a perspective from a person that understands the history of Windows on tablets well as you'll find.
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I don't see how you can consider Windows 8 on tablets as a success, since the "on tablets" part makes it a failure already. Heck even the iPad is a failure since it's simply an Angry Birds/Draw Something/Tap Tap Revenge gaming gadget, and not a tablet.
 
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