Why Microsoft Killed the Windows Start Button

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I'm not sure if I'm buying this excuse or not but, since the classic and Metro versions are separated, how hard would it be to just put the damn thing back for people that want it?

"We’d seen the trend in Windows 7," said Chaitanya Sareen, principal program manager at Microsoft, referring to the telemetry gathered by the Microsoft Customer Experience Improvement Program. "When we evolved the taskbar we saw awesome adoption of pinning [applications] on the taskbar. We are seeing people pin like crazy. And so we saw the Start menu usage dramatically dropping, and that gave us an option. We’re saying 'look, Start menu usage is dropping, what can we do about it? What can we do with the Start menu to revive it, to give it some new identity, give it some new power?'"
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I guess I'm still stuck in the Start Age. No Start button for me, no Win 8. Same with my older customers, they have universally given Win8 the thumbs down. They just don't care for it. I installed it on a system for customers to check out and so far it gets more disapproval than approval. My younger customers like it but they still like Win7, so there's that. Old dogs, new tricks and all that...

It just seems shortsighted to remove something that has become so iconic in Windows.
 
Because fuck you, thats why.

Why isn't there even the option for the start button? You have to drag and hover in the corner. They still for some reason, seem to think an OS is a game or a lifestyle accessory. Not some boring shit that launches all the other exciting stuff and stays the hell out your way instead of stupid full screen menus and ugly GUI.

Wish they would just own up and at least be honest about stuff. It's a push to have their own tablet "application store" thing. So they butchered it into a rather featureless OS service pack to try and force adoption. Only the very naive can't see that. :p
 
referring to the telemetry gathered by the Microsoft Customer Experience Improvement Program
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so they are getting their data from someone most people opt out of??

that does explain their disconnect
 
I remember reading about how Windows 7 beta as one of the most downloaded betas ever. I don't hear the same for the Windows 8 preview. I have zero interest in Windows 8 in its current form. MS has a potential Windows Me/Vista disaster on their hands. Enterprise won't embrace Windows 8 unless its on tablets. What are they thinking?
 
I still think this is some sort of multi-billion dollar corporation prank...
 
because theyre fucking retards and thats the only idea they could come up to in six years besides adding SP3 to vista and copying a cellphone interface to be used on tablet pcs.
 
It's so disingenuous of them. No one uses the start menu because they started pinning everything they use to the task bar. So to improve the system for desktop users, you boot them directly into a full screen start menu interface by default with no way to boot direct to the desktop without some kind of hack. WTF? That still doesn't explain why you made it slower and more unintuitive to get the the new full screen start menu. Hovering at the corner then selecting apps to bring up the full screen start menu is at least 2x slower than pressing the start button to get the menu up.
 
I pretty much use the Start menu exclusively. The problem (IMO) is that seemingly every program you install makes its own folder, making a mess of the start menu. I categorize everything by genre (multimedia, games, Office, Adobe CS, etc.) and it's like a well-oiled machine.
 
that the Desktop is unimportant. They don't care about it, why should you. If you aren't using a phone or tablet as your primary machine, MS isn't interested in you.

I'm sure the only reason they can get away with it is that they could presumably compile it right back in with only several rounds of bug patches. Apple hasn't yet doubled down with trying to replace OSX with iOS, either because they are sane or because everybody would believe they meant it (I will go with the [H]'s Apple hate and believe the latter).

This leads to the question, since they aren't following Apple on this, who are they following? Ubunutu?
 
In before the DeathPrincess and Cube hate.... awww dammit. I really really gotta figure out how to post sooner.

I was wondering when they would officially release a response to the "start menu" situation.
 
nOrVow said:
Oh boy... I can see this becoming another 20 page thread. lol
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Depends, no one has mentioned pen and touch screen somethings yet. (which BTW suck terribly, and people who use them write angry letters to petting zoos :eek:)

XamediX said:
In before the DeathPrincess and Cube hate.... awww dammit. I really really gotta figure out how to post sooner.

I was wondering when they would officially release a response to the "start menu" situation.
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Heey no one hates me. Well...other than that one crazy guy.

I've released several official statements. Not with Cube however. Maybe my official statement missed some stuff. Unless you meant Microsoft. It's probably because they've noticed people hate this shizzle.

Buut hate is a strong word. It's not hate per se, more "Bwahaha. Wtf is this shizzle!?! You can't be serious? Oh, you are...okaay then...Good luck with...that...:confused:". It's kind of more like when your friend says "hey I made a strawberry milkshake for this strawberry milkshake contest" and then it's got no strawberries but they put mango in it because they're also entering the mango milkshake contest (never guess what I'm drinking).
 
kattana said:
so they are getting their data from someone most people opt out of??

that does explain their disconnect
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Most the people who do NOT opt out of it are likely noobies, so any data they collect is skewed towards the least qualified users.
 
nutzo said:
Most the people who do NOT opt out of it are likely noobies, so any data they collect is skewed towards the least qualified users.
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Well if "noobies" don't use the Start menu then why the fuck would so called "power users" be using it?
Shouldn't the l33t power users being using jumplists/keyboard short cuts?

:rolleyes:
 
We’re saying 'look, Start menu usage is dropping, what can we do about it? What can we do with the Start menu to revive it, to give it some new identity, give it some new power?'"
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Why cant you just leave it the fuck alone? Or disable it and give people options if they want to enable it? Sure, I use it less than I did in XP, but I use it still, every DAY. Change for the sake of change. Thats not progress, that's chaos.
 
Monkey God said:
Why cant you just leave it the fuck alone? Or disable it and give people options if they want to enable it? Sure, I use it less than I did in XP, but I use it still, every DAY. Change for the sake of change. Thats not progress, that's chaos.
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Don't worry. No need to get upset and start cursing. You can just stick with Windows 7. Relaxxxxxx. :cool:
 
I use rocketdock and objectdock exclusively for all of my applications. So I could give a fuck about the start menu being there or not. However, Fuck Win-8!!! (I want to fit in here too)


:D
 
XamediX said:
Don't worry. No need to get upset and start cursing. You can just stick with Windows 7. Relaxxxxxx. :cool:
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Exactly. Windows 7 will be around for a long time.

I remember sticking with Windows 98, skipping NT and 2000, before finally upgrading to XP after SP1 came out. Also skipped Vista, waiting until Windows 7 SP1 was out.

Guess I'll have to wait for Windows 9 SP1 :)
 
MS has some big shoes to fill after W7.

I myself will keep using W7 until it can no longer deliver then I will upgrade. I agree how it's been somewhat deemed as the new XP.
 
The Windows 8 hate cracks me up. I didn't realize the internet was so full of lunies.

There is nothing you can't do on Windows 8 that you can do on Windows 7. In fact most of the keystrokes and mouse clicks are the same between the two despite the aesthetic differences.

The start menu after XP was just a glorified search bar. God forbid Microsoft maintain the search functionality while making the start menu itself into something useful.
 
I don't buy that argument. The only things that I pin to my taskbar are the things that would have been on the quickbar in XP and earlier.
 
DeathPrincess said:
Depends, no one has mentioned pen and touch screen somethings yet. (which BTW suck terribly, and people who use them write angry letters to petting zoos :eek:)).
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Pen and touch work VERY well in Windows 8. You may not have use of them but some people do even in Windows 7 and more will with Windows 8 and new hardware.
 
heatlesssun said:
Pen and touch work VERY well in Windows 8. You may not have use of them but some people do even in Windows 7 and more will with Windows 8 and new hardware.
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Aw, you got here long before I could herald your triumphant arrival. :(

Anyway, this is kinda old news. Microsoft was explaining this sort of thing late last year when the developer preview was new. Nothing that's going to be said in this thread will be a unique revelation that radically alters the views of its participants.

Though, it probably will make for another good popcorn thread full of angry ravings from either side of the fance. :D
 
MRAB54 said:
The big question is, what will go in place of the Window key on my keyboard.
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I dunno, how about this?
panic_button.jpg
 
The Start Menu does not afford users the opportunity to buy additional software from Microsoft. The Start Screen does afford users the opportunity to buy additional software from Microsoft.

You do the math.
 
sorry d00d. ... the orange and green blocks are lame.

I'm just not going to click them, gesture them, whatever it is they expect me to do.

Start menu, mouse and let me decide how to interact with my programs. It's a fundamental change that should be left up to the paying consumer. If people want to jack around with Justin Biebers face popping up on an orange square suggesting music, cool, let them have at it. For me, I don't want to ever see that crap.

Honestly. I think it would be cool to move over to an Apple OS for email, browsing and the like. I can use bootcamp 4.0 to play Windows games. No problem at all.
 
Monkey God said:
Why cant you just leave it the fuck alone? Or disable it and give people options if they want to enable it? Sure, I use it less than I did in XP, but I use it still, every DAY. Change for the sake of change. Thats not progress, that's chaos.
Click to expand...

What would have been nice is if MS would have added categories to the Start Menu so that when you are installing software the OS would select a default category (Desktop Publishing, Games, Internet Applications for example) to install it under, with the option to change or even create a new category. I set up all new systems this way and my customers love it. Every time I service their systems I reorganize their Start Menu for them, which they appreciate. Some of my customers have had me show them how to do it themselves so they can keep their Start Menu neat and organized.

A well organized Start Menu works for my customers and they use it. IMO this would have been a better move.
 
Veilrap said:
The Windows 8 hate cracks me up. I didn't realize the internet was so full of lunies.

There is nothing you can't do on Windows 8 that you can do on Windows 7. In fact most of the keystrokes and mouse clicks are the same between the two despite the aesthetic differences.

The start menu after XP was just a glorified search bar. God forbid Microsoft maintain the search functionality while making the start menu itself into something useful.
Click to expand...

As much as people my say that the Start Screen doesn't work well with keyboards and mice the Start Menu almost doesn't work at all with touch. Whatever is lost with keyboards and mice with the Start Screen a hundred fold is gained in touch and tablet usability. Windows 8 is a hybrid OS from the UI standpoint. It can work just like a desktop and it can work just like a tablet, even Windows RT retains the desktop though it's locked down there.

Microsoft is delivering a VERY powerful OS in Windows 8. With its smaller sibling in Windows RT at least a subset Windows proper can run on any common form factor beyond phones (and even there Windows Phone 8 share a lot with Windows 8/RT) using any common input method on the two common CPU architectures available today.

It makes perfect sense to drop a 20 year old UI solely for keyboards and mice when those input devices are in relative decline due emergence of touch screen computing.
 
nutzo said:
Exactly. Windows 7 will be around for a long time.

I remember sticking with Windows 98, skipping NT and 2000, before finally upgrading to XP after SP1 came out. Also skipped Vista, waiting until Windows 7 SP1 was out.

Guess I'll have to wait for Windows 9 SP1 :)
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I like how you somehow think that windows 9 will be magically different from windows 8. If anything, you'll just be delaying learning the new interface and making it even harder when you inevitably switch.
 
wonderfield said:
The Start Menu does not afford users the opportunity to buy additional software from Microsoft. The Start Screen does afford users the opportunity to buy additional software from Microsoft.

You do the math.
Click to expand...

The bulk of that money doesn't go to Microsoft and Microsoft is offering developers after $25,000 in sales a significantly bigger cut than Apple. Moreover any developer who wants to put free apps in the store can and Microsoft makes no money there.
 
DeathPrincess said:
Because fuck you, thats why.

Why isn't there even the option for the start button? You have to drag and hover in the corner. They still for some reason, seem to think an OS is a game or a lifestyle accessory. Not some boring shit that launches all the other exciting stuff and stays the hell out your way instead of stupid full screen menus and ugly GUI.

Wish they would just own up and at least be honest about stuff. It's a push to have their own tablet "application store" thing. So they butchered it into a rather featureless OS service pack to try and force adoption. Only the very naive can't see that. :p
Click to expand...
Because once your mother manages to launch a Metro app somehow, how will she know how to get back to anything else if she' been relying on clicking the Start Button from the desktop?
 
This sounds like typical lazy tech research.

Essentially you look round your desk and use the folks sitting next to you as the 'usual user' and base your findings on what they do. Nothing like using your own peer group to back up your opinions.

Well it saves time and effort doesn't it! I've seen it happen many times and every time they get bit hard when the end result blows up in their face.

If I asked any of my customers what a 'hot key' was or if they used Search to find their applications then I'd get some very odd looks.
 
someone will skin win XP/7 and sell it as a mod and make alot of money imho...
 
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