One Shot, One Kill, No Skill: Diary of a Cheater

You guys are comparing real life crimes to cheating in video games.

If you get robbed, raped, etc. in real life then yeah you're screwed. But if someone's hacking in a server, then either join a different server, buy your own damn server, complain to the game company for having crap security, or maybe just not take video games so seriously.

The more you rage against hackers, the more hackers there will be.

It boils down to honesty, integrity, and morals. Would anyone that had those three things rob rape or murder? They damn sure wouldn't be cheating in a video game that's for sure.

Funny enough here in texas if someone trys to rob or rape you -- we generally execute the criminal on the spot via self defense. (I fully believe in the right to use deadly force to defend yourself)

The argument of taking something seriously has no merit here -- what about your kids little league soccer game? What if some kids on the opponents team were cheating? Could we just tell you "don't take it so seriously - its only little league soccer" or tell your child to go play on another field?

It's hard to imagine in this day and age, but picture a society where people had enough honor and integrity to NOT cheat/steal/kill. Could you imagine not needing locks on your door, or carrying mace or a gun, or not being afraid to walk home at night? This idea is probably so foreign to us it's just absurd to think about.

It all comes back to the core idea of being a good person. Anyone who cheats/steals and trys to subvert the rules is a small part of a much bigger problem.

Funny enough our society could use a huge infusion of the idea of "honor" from the Klingons :) The closest we have on this planet are the Japanese - of course every society has their issues, but honor is something thats not 100% dead there yet.
 
It boils down to honesty, integrity, and morals. Would anyone that had those three things rob rape or murder? They damn sure wouldn't be cheating in a video game that's for sure.

Funny enough here in texas if someone trys to rob or rape you -- we generally execute the criminal on the spot via self defense. (I fully believe in the right to use deadly force to defend yourself)

The argument of taking something seriously has no merit here -- what about your kids little league soccer game? What if some kids on the opponents team were cheating? Could we just tell you "don't take it so seriously - its only little league soccer" or tell your child to go play on another field?

It's hard to imagine in this day and age, but picture a society where people had enough honor and integrity to NOT cheat/steal/kill. Could you imagine not needing locks on your door, or carrying mace or a gun, or not being afraid to walk home at night? This idea is probably so foreign to us it's just absurd to think about.

It all comes back to the core idea of being a good person. Anyone who cheats/steals and trys to subvert the rules is a small part of a much bigger problem.

Funny enough our society could use a huge infusion of the idea of "honor" from the Klingons :) The closest we have on this planet are the Japanese - of course every society has their issues, but honor is something thats not 100% dead there yet.

Sadly the japanese obsession with honor produces also one of the highest suicide rates in the world...
And that's without counting the huge NEET issue...
 
But that's what is needed almost. There needs to be a strong enough deterrent from cheating, and the process to cheat needs to be made more difficult than the average joe is willing to invest time into.

Once that happens cheating with take a nose dive, right now any idiot can go get his credit card and cheat. Stat wiping isn't enough, there needs to be something to make people think twice. If to cheat in a game, you're forced to jump through a bunch of hoops then yes please lets make it as hard and as much of a pain in the ass process as possible.

We need a deterrent
We need accurate detections
We need an appropriate punishment

This is why third party anticheat organizations exist. PBBans (not releated to PB) takes standard 2 minute PB violation kicks and turns them into permanent bans, among other detections. They then allow server admins to stream banlists to help protect their servers.

MetaBans just started up again, and allows groups to stream their Banlists. other admins can follow as many or as few other groups as they want and stream their banlists from any and all.

If you run a server, you need to be streaming to PBBans!

These third party Anticheat groups are often and frequency subject to DDoS attacks, because they make it hell for cheaters more than the Anticheat software companies do.
About that:
http://kotaku.com/5878798/hackers-brag-that-theyre-banning-innocent-battlefield-3-users
 
I guarantee I have a more stressful job than the idiot in the article. Cheaters suck. I'd wish them cancer, but I don't wish that on anyone. I guess I'll wish for them to get I.B.S. Bastards.
 
The argument of taking something seriously has no merit here -- what about your kids little league soccer game? What if some kids on the opponents team were cheating? Could we just tell you "don't take it so seriously - its only little league soccer" or tell your child to go play on another field?

That's a bad analogy. In a league game you're subject to having referees supervise the game and if you cheat you're probably going to get kicked out and never allowed to play there again (think of it as having admins on the server?).

A better analogy would probably be playing a pick up game at the local basketball court. If you cheat there, chances are the people you're playing with will just kick you out or play somewhere else. Since that's real life though, there's also the chance of simply getting punched in the face if you cheat/troll that hard.
 
It boils down to honesty, integrity, and morals. Would anyone that had those three things rob rape or murder? They damn sure wouldn't be cheating in a video game that's for sure.

Funny enough here in texas if someone trys to rob or rape you -- we generally execute the criminal on the spot via self defense. (I fully believe in the right to use deadly force to defend yourself)

The argument of taking something seriously has no merit here -- what about your kids little league soccer game? What if some kids on the opponents team were cheating? Could we just tell you "don't take it so seriously - its only little league soccer" or tell your child to go play on another field?

It's hard to imagine in this day and age, but picture a society where people had enough honor and integrity to NOT cheat/steal/kill. Could you imagine not needing locks on your door, or carrying mace or a gun, or not being afraid to walk home at night? This idea is probably so foreign to us it's just absurd to think about.

It all comes back to the core idea of being a good person. Anyone who cheats/steals and trys to subvert the rules is a small part of a much bigger problem.

Funny enough our society could use a huge infusion of the idea of "honor" from the Klingons :) The closest we have on this planet are the Japanese - of course every society has their issues, but honor is something thats not 100% dead there yet.

I see what you're saying, but it IS just a game. You can tie it to degrading the moral fabric of society, or you could realize that no matter what, there will always be cheaters. I hope for better hack and cheat prevention in the future, but I'm not going to sit here and turn it into a family values Ronald Reagan speech. :p
 
That's a bad analogy. In a league game you're subject to having referees supervise the game and if you cheat you're probably going to get kicked out and never allowed to play there again (think of it as having admins on the server?).

A better analogy would probably be playing a pick up game at the local basketball court. If you cheat there, chances are the people you're playing with will just kick you out or play somewhere else. Since that's real life though, there's also the chance of simply getting punched in the face if you cheat/troll that hard.

Problem is how you do that.
If you analyze how most of the cheats for FPS work is that they basically give you more information and superhuman reflexes.
But what happens if you have more information and superhuman reflexes in a local basketball court match?
 
Sadly the japanese obsession with honor produces also one of the highest suicide rates in the world...
And that's without counting the huge NEET issue...

True -- however it's just a different culture over there. Suicide is terrible - I've been personally effected by it, and it's not fun.

All that being said the logic of "its my life and I can do what I want with it" does apply. I'm not saying suicide is a good thing at all - but I know that over there suicide isn't "as bad" as we view it over here. Google the Suicide Forest in Japan -- scary stuff.

I don't know if you could say the japanese are obsessed with honor, they still have crime over there just like we do, robberies, rapes, murders. As many movies have said "It's human nature to destroy yourselves". Seems this is pretty damn true.

Personally - I'd want to end my own life on my own terms if I was faced with many years of some crippling disease that was a huge burden on my family and their finances. Living a few more good years, or 10 more filled with pure misery, hell, and shame? No thanks.

In the end it's all personal choice and nothing anyone says can change your fundamental belief for or against it.
 

Yea, which is the huge reason PBBans has the streaming application requirements they have in place today.

The varying practices in who can stream, as the result of the ban spoofing that has happened in the past and more recently caused a huge rift between PBBans and GGC.

Generally PBBans has more stringent requirements to be able to stream which helps maintain the security of the banlist, whereas other groups GGC included is very lax in comparison.

PBBans issued a public statement after that:
http://www.pbbans.com/forums/streaming-security-t155655.html

The mass fake ban attack in 2008 was a wakeup call for us and we took it very seriously. That is the reason we have the high streaming requirements of requiring teams to have a working website, roster, forums showing activity to name a few. The rest of those requirements can be found here.

The ban spoofing isn't new, more of fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me kinda deal. it should of served as a wake up call to GGC to change their application process back when it happened in 2008. That latest wave is shame on GGC.

The hole is in the PB streaming process not anything inherent to PBBans or GGC, but to not take preventative measures is plain old stupid, and GGC hadn't since the last fake ban wave.

If you are part of a clan, there is no reason why you shouldn't be streaming to PBBans right this moment.
 
I bought it for half price and have noticed a few guys every once in a while that are, IMO, too good. I'm a decent player, not great by any stretch, but if I run in to you ten times and you kill me ten times I start to wonder.

Really takes the fun out of a round.
 
I bought it for half price and have noticed a few guys every once in a while that are, IMO, too good. I'm a decent player, not great by any stretch, but if I run in to you ten times and you kill me ten times I start to wonder.

Really takes the fun out of a round.

The hard thing is, too, most cheaters don't just blatently turn on aimbots and wallhacks and go nuts. Many of them just toggle it on and off when they get close to an enemy, so they still rack up kills but it's much harder to recognize/detect. Those are the real fuckers...at least the blatant ones there's no question.
 
He acts like he is a normal person that just needs a venting point online for his anger, truth is he probably needs it badly, because if your if your stress reliever is to pay for the opportunity to piss off a stranger,you are probably one step from going postal at work.
Armchair psychology seems to run rampant these days.
 
The hard thing is, too, most cheaters don't just blatently turn on aimbots and wallhacks and go nuts. Many of them just toggle it on and off when they get close to an enemy, so they still rack up kills but it's much harder to recognize/detect. Those are the real fuckers...at least the blatant ones there's no question.

I don't think most people appreciate how much they can control these.

They can set an angle ranger where if you're in that certain angle, it will auto aim or auto fire.

You ever hide somewhere for a while, then see a guy coming on the mini map and think you're going to surprise them, but for "some reason", they manage to not just fire back, but headshot you before you can barely hit the trigger?

They can also target specific people. If you piss them off, sometimes they will just target you and mess with you.
 
The rage in this thread is the sole reason I keep a hacking/cheating acount. The entertainment value alone is well worth it. RAGE ON!!!
 
The rage in this thread is the sole reason I keep a hacking/cheating acount. The entertainment value alone is well worth it. RAGE ON!!!

It's a two way street my friend. There's a nice joke of the day like thread over at PBBans that picks out the best of the best in appeals for bans issued.

Your days are numbered, don't cry too much when the hammer hits.
 
I know everyone is raging over what this guy did, but when I read the title of the article the first thing that came to my mind was "How is this difference than the real money auction house in Diablo 3??" Ok so it's a bit different, as you can't just make everyone die, but still... people pay money to enjoy a game the way THEY want to, end of story. Shit happened with my playing Portal 2, people used cheats to get to the exit instantly without solving puzzles, I simply left the game, and started again trying to find someone who didn't cheat.. I found someone... who was nice enough to ask if it was ok to cheat.

It impacts 63 other people on a Battlefield 3 server someone's paying $60-100 a month for, rendering it useless and displacing all those people while pissing them off and ruining their gaming time. It's somewhat sociopathic, really, as it's not a solitary stress release but rather enjoyment from harming others.
 
It boils down to honesty, integrity, and morals. Would anyone that had those three things rob rape or murder? They damn sure wouldn't be cheating in a video game that's for sure.
Never seen a more stupid reply anywhere on this forum.

Let's see...., because YOU don't always adhere to the 55 mph speed limit it is clear to me that you are a rapist because one follows the other. :rolleyes:
 
It's a two way street my friend. There's a nice joke of the day like thread over at PBBans that picks out the best of the best in appeals for bans issued.

Your days are numbered, don't cry too much when the hammer hits.

Empty threats are empty.
Professional hacks work because they are undetectable unless the hacker is makes it stupidly obvious that he is hacking. I don't play BF3, but I can tell you from personal experience that I still own my first BF2 account after literally years of aimbotting.
 
Empty threats are empty.
Professional hacks work because they are undetectable unless the hacker is makes it stupidly obvious that he is hacking. I don't play BF3, but I can tell you from personal experience that I still own my first BF2 account after literally years of aimbotting.

You're actually telling us you use aimbot?
 
The rage in this thread is the sole reason I keep a hacking/cheating acount. The entertainment value alone is well worth it. RAGE ON!!!

experience that I still own my first BF2 account after literally years of aimbotting.

:rolleyes:

You two are terrible people. I hope Kyle bans you from these forums.

I pay good money, not just for games, but also for a computer that can run them and run them well. I also pay membership dues to a clan that maintains 5 or so servers across different games. This isn't cheap either.

And you do this for what? Because its fun to piss people off?

Would you key someone's car infront of them because its hilarious to see how they react?

Probably not. You are likely just pathetic slime hiding behind your keyboard, too scared to confront someone face to face.

The truth is, you are no different than the little teenage punks who get their kicks out of pissing people off, but I take solace in the fact that its only a matter of time before you piss of the wrong person.

Eventually the person you piss of will be someone high strung enough, who has had a bad enough day that all their self restraint is gone, and they have the means to act on it. It's too bad that I won't be there to see it, as I would enjoy it.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038861495 said:
I pay good money, not just for games, but also for a computer that can run them and run them well. I also pay membership dues to a clan that maintains 5 or so servers across different games. This isn't cheap either.
So what? I pay the same expenses you pay, in theory I actually pay more than you.

Zarathustra[H];1038861495 said:
And you do this for what? Because its fun to piss people off?
I do it for my own entertainment, that's why I play games. Why do you play games?
I posted a few years(?) ago somewhere on here that you would never know if you were in a match against me that I am aimbotting. My stats aren't top, my K/D ratio is average, I don't do impossible shots across the map, etc., my point is that neither you nor anyone else would have any idea.

Zarathustra[H];1038861495 said:
Probably not. You are likely just pathetic slime hiding behind your keyboard, too scared to confront someone face to face.
Confirming that I am scared of you face to face.

Zarathustra[H];1038861495 said:
Eventually the person you piss of will be someone high strung enough, who has had a bad enough day that all their self restraint is gone, and they have the means to act on it. It's too bad that I won't be there to see it, as I would enjoy it.
That fantasy is really all you have because reality has proven over the years that there is literally nothing else other than such fantasies that can be done against those who use professional hacks.

I bet you anything that in every single game you join someone on your team or the opposing team is using aimbots.
 
Well since we're all coming out of the metaphorical closet. I too was a huge cheating asshole back in my early days. I used to hack the hell out of Planetside, Unreal, Counter-Strike 1.6, Battlefield 1942, Alien vs Predator 2, Command and Conquer, Call of Duty, Soldier of Fortune, Rainbow Six 3, Far Cry, and tons of other games between 2000-2004. It was mostly a learning experience for me and it really helped me learn programming because I was having fun. There were alot of helpful starter sites on how to develop your own hack, I admit I did try out a few executables but I always thought crafting one yourself was much more fun and being able to personalize it was a bonus. I wasn't obvious with it either, my hacking was extremely subtle so there was no raging, just people who thought I was really good.

Funny enough the only one that caught me was Planetside. But I stopped visting those sites long ago and eventually stopped hacking entirely, still do like to exploit though. :D
 
This thread is full of win. Here is something to think about: Cheating is rampant in capitalism. I would even venture a guess that through the use of a risk/reward analysis (you cheat enough to get ahead but not enough to get caught which lowers profits), cheating is one of the core values in a capitalistic society.

So to everyone who rages against cheats I ask you: Why do you hate America?
 
This thread is full of win. Here is something to think about: Cheating is rampant in capitalism. I would even venture a guess that through the use of a risk/reward analysis (you cheat enough to get ahead but not enough to get caught which lowers profits), cheating is one of the core values in a capitalistic society.

So to everyone who rages against cheats I ask you: Why do you hate America?

I would argue that it is not acceptable in capitalism either.

Business ethics are very important, and those that try to bend laws even slightly, eventually wind up paying the price.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038861941 said:
I would argue that it is not acceptable in capitalism either.

Business ethics are very important, and those that try to bend laws even slightly, eventually wind up paying the price.

I concede your point about ethics if we are taking about Max Weber/Adam Smith style capitalism. However, post-modern capitalism is all about trying to see what you can get away with in the short-term to raise those profit margins and get that extra quarter point on the NYSE. Who cares if I get caught later because I will already be gone using my golden parachute to bail out.

Or... are you one of those types who thinks life should be fair and just because people are naturally good. Just asking questions here ;)

For the record, I don't cheat in multi-player but not because I'm philosophically opposed to it.
 
Or... are you one of those types who thinks life should be fair and just because people are naturally good. Just asking questions here ;)

I believe that people SHOULD be good and fair to all around them at all times, and when they aren't they are bad people.

People who think that the rules don't apply to them, that they should bend or disregard them or that it is OK to break a rule, any rule are the scourge of our society, and when they get ahead because of these practices, I consider their success ill gotten gains that should be seized and they should be jailed.

For the record, I don't cheat in multi-player but not because I'm philosophically opposed to it.

well, I do. I consider any and all cheating at any level of society to be an evil.

I've never cheated at a game, I've never cheated on my taxes, I've never cheated on a test, I've never cheated on a girlfriend or my wife, I've never cheated at anything, and I never will, because I am a good upstanding person.

Those who do cheat at anything, for any reason are bad people, who need to be rooted out of society. It's that simple.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038862096 said:
I consider any and all cheating at any level of society to be an evil. Those who do cheat at anything, for any reason are bad people, who need to be rooted out of society. It's that simple.

I imagine that such a simplistic world-view would be a great comfort. And, such contempt for the spectrum of grey... even though without it that same world-view would be impossible. The light of Apollo can not exist without the shadow of Dionysus: Thus spoke the world.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038862096 said:
I believe that people SHOULD be good and fair to all around them at all times, and when they aren't they are bad people.

People who think that the rules don't apply to them, that they should bend or disregard them or that it is OK to break a rule, any rule are the scourge of our society, and when they get ahead because of these practices, I consider their success ill gotten gains that should be seized and they should be jailed.



well, I do. I consider any and all cheating at any level of society to be an evil.

I've never cheated at a game, I've never cheated on my taxes, I've never cheated on a test, I've never cheated on a girlfriend or my wife, I've never cheated at anything, and I never will, because I am a good upstanding person.

Those who do cheat at anything, for any reason are bad people, who need to be rooted out of society. It's that simple.

That being said, my perspective comes as a Quality Assurance Engineer working in the medical device field.

My job (and our jobs to some extend influence our personalities, and vice versa) is to - among other things - be the policeman to make sure that we dot every i, and cross every t when complying with FDA regulations. Since we manufacture a Class III device, our procedures have to be bulletproof, as although the regulations are the same for quality across all classes, ours are given that much more scrutiny.

Our procedures have to be written with detail outlining how we do everything, and they can not have any grey areas or wiggle room at all. My job is to find grey areas and wiggle room and when I find them squash them out of existence.
 
I imagine that such a simplistic world-view would be a great comfort. And, such contempt for the spectrum of grey... even though without it that same world-view would be impossible. The light of Apollo can not exist without the shadow of Dionysus: Thus spoke the world.

There are many fields in which there are areas of grey, and those areas of grey are inherent in the process.

Can you give me a single example of where cheating is a good thing?
 
Zarathustra[H];1038862096 said:
I've never cheated at a game, I've never cheated on my taxes, I've never cheated on a test, I've never cheated on a girlfriend or my wife, I've never cheated at anything, and I never will, because I am a good upstanding person.

Those who do cheat at anything, for any reason are bad people, who need to be rooted out of society. It's that simple.

Yikes.. really? You lump people who cheat on video games in the same category as people who cheat on their girlfriends and wives? Seriously skewed perspective you have there.
 
This thread is full of win. Here is something to think about: Cheating is rampant in capitalism. I would even venture a guess that through the use of a risk/reward analysis (you cheat enough to get ahead but not enough to get caught which lowers profits), cheating is one of the core values in a capitalistic society.

So to everyone who rages against cheats I ask you: Why do you hate America?

You hate America if you don't rape it?
 
Yikes.. really? You lump people who cheat on video games in the same category as people who cheat on their girlfriends and wives? Seriously skewed perspective you have there.

It comes from personal experience.

People tend to be opposed to cheating, or think they are above common decency.

In my experience the latter group tends to not be isolated to one area of cheating.

If they show their colors by cheating at a game, it is a highly accurate predictor of them being likely to cheat in other aspects of their lives. It's a way of thinking, and once someone thinks that way, they are broken.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038862096 said:
Those who do cheat at anything, for any reason are bad people, who need to be rooted out of society. It's that simple.

No. There is balance in all things, and you learn from life experiences. Bubble Boy.

I dislike cheating, same as you, but don't shoot your friend in the face for cheating at poker.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038862320 said:
It comes from personal experience.

People tend to be opposed to cheating, or think they are above common decency.

In my experience the latter group tends to not be isolated to one area of cheating.

If they show their colors by cheating at a game, it is a highly accurate predictor of them being likely to cheat in other aspects of their lives. It's a way of thinking, and once someone thinks that way, they are broken.

I think you're going off the deep end here.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038862218 said:
Snip.

Our procedures have to be written with detail outlining how we do everything, and they can not have any grey areas or wiggle room at all. My job is to find grey areas and wiggle room and when I find them squash them out of existence.

Zarathustra[H];1038862225 said:
Snip.

Can you give me a single example of where cheating is a good thing?

First, I applaud you for your service to society as well as finding a job that suits your particular world-view/personality. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I don't see the appeal. I never said cheating was a good thing: I only said it is inherent in the system of post-modern capitalism. Personally, I don't believe in good or evil so in a sense I'm exactly as fascistic as you but on the other end of the scale.
 
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