Diablo III is getting killed on Metacritic

MavericK96 said:
I don't disagree in any particular way with your post, and I did read previous posts, but my point is they shouldn't have made it this way in the first place.
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I mainly posted that because you agreed with the other post you quoted. It may not have been the intention of your post but I get annoyed when people say that the single player would be an easy fix and that there is no good reason for them to leave it out.

The fact is that there is a good reason, there are many good reasons that they designed the game the way they did. If you think they should of done it differently then that's cool, it's your opinion, but just acting like it is the worse decision ever and that they made it because they hate SP is wrong.
 
Rdzona said:
I gotta laugh at this mentality. (Cliche forthcoming) As if someone held a gun to your head and made you deal with this bullshit.

Wah wah wah, QQ some more

So much madness in here. Didn't mommy teach you guys about patience? Generation of instant gratification.
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People shouldn't have to be patient. What the fuck is up with the modern generation of gaming? Between people that whine about every tiny thing like children to people like you that are willing to just bend over and take whatever these companies dish out we're all fucked as consumers. An hour or two of issues after launch is understandable almost an entire bloody day is not. There is no valid justification that can be brought up to excuse all of these issues.
People paid good money for the game and they should be able to play it at launch.
 
Sweetleader said:
I really don't understand the complaint about "on-line only". Doesn't BF3 require an internet connection through their stupid web browser? I didn't see many complaints about that.

My only complaint is the RMAH. It is going to set a precedant for the rest of the gaming community that buying and selling is "ok" for A+ titles. It is already bad enough we have "f2p" games that are charging for weapon unlocks. Now we have an extremely popular game that says it is ok for people to sell items for real money.

Overall I like the game. I'm a level 23 Wizard and it really is a blast. I amaze myself sometimes at how many mobs I can take on and not die as long as I use the proper rotation.
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Uh RM transactions happens all the time in F2P games and normal games (I remember people used to pay guilds in either gold or RM to run them through end game content). Blizzard just did it the smart way by making it legit while taking a percentage of the profit.
 
I'm not really sure what the fuss is all about. The only thing bad that happened was that millions of people tried to access servers at the same time. If you think there weren't going to be problems with this scenario, you were kidding yourself.

If you purchased the game, you have no right to complain about the "always on DRM" because you knew it was going exist before you bought it.

With this type of game, where real money can be exchanged for items in the game, an always on DRM is required to maintain fair play, and to prevent hacking of the game items. I'm not sure why most people are not understanding this concept.

As for the game being single-player and requiring an internet connection, it sucks. Perhaps Blizzard could have included an offline single-player experience that remained completely offline, and any items/experience gained offline would not appear online, and not be official in any way. That way, everyone is happy. But this kind of thing may not be in the budget.
 
Derangel said:
People shouldn't have to be patient. What the fuck is up with the modern generation of gaming? Between people that whine about every tiny thing like children to people like you that are willing to just bend over and take whatever these companies dish out we're all fucked as consumers. An hour or two of issues after launch is understandable almost an entire bloody day is not. There is no valid justification that can be brought up to excuse all of these issues.
People paid good money for the game and they should be able to play it at launch.
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Yeah, what he said. I should be able to play my stinkin game on the first bloody day. :(

Seriously though dude, I think you need to pull the throttles back a little bit. D2 ran for how long? Don't worry, you'll have plenty of time to play this game. It's not necessarily bending over backwards for Blizzard, and I'm not trying to be dismissive. I get it, it's exciting you can barely help yourself with all the suspense. But the statement "Good things come to those that wait" just didn't come out of thin air nor did it get pulled out of someones ass at Blizzard. I guess I'm just a little more grown up and can accept some of these things especially when we're talking about a video game. By your attitude I can tell you don't have kids and if you do, well you might want to think about some changes.
 
illdklli said:
I'm not really sure what the fuss is all about. The only thing bad that happened was that millions of people tried to access servers at the same time. If you think there weren't going to be problems with this scenario, you were kidding yourself.
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You're kidding yourself. This is a common thing for blizzard they should have been ready. There where over a million preorders they knew damn good and well what would happen.

illdklli said:
If you purchased the game, you have no right to complain about the "always on DRM" because you knew it was going exist before you bought it.
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I have every right to complaign about whatever the fuck i want. :rolleyes: Theres no reason we cant keep complaining until they remove it.

illdklli said:
With this type of game, where real money can be exchanged for items in the game, an always on DRM is required to maintain fair play, and to prevent hacking of the game items. I'm not sure why most people are not understanding this concept.
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More bullshit. No reason they couldnt tag single player offline items as unsellable. Oh wait you said exactly that yourself below... So why is the always on required again?

illdklli said:
As for the game being single-player and requiring an internet connection, it sucks. Perhaps Blizzard could have included an offline single-player experience that remained completely offline, and any items/experience gained offline would not appear online, and not be official in any way. That way, everyone is happy. But this kind of thing may not be in the budget.
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How can you say this and in the same post say the always on DRM is required??
 
Rdzona said:
Yeah, what he said. I should be able to play my stinkin game on the first bloody day. :(

Seriously though dude, I think you need to pull the throttles back a little bit. D2 ran for how long? Don't worry, you'll have plenty of time to play this game. It's not necessarily bending over backwards for Blizzard, and I'm not trying to be dismissive. I get it, it's exciting you can barely help yourself with all the suspense. But the statement "Good things come to those that wait" just didn't come out of thin air nor did it get pulled out of someones ass at Blizzard. I guess I'm just a little more grown up and can accept some of these things especially when we're talking about a video game. By your attitude I can tell you don't have kids and if you do, well you might want to think about some changes.
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I just don't get the attitude that we should excuse something like 12 hours of server issues. It's not like Blizzard is a small company that doesn't have a lot of money and couldn't prepare for the launch. It's not like it's even the first time Blizzard has had massive server issues. In the few months I played WoW I saw first hand how badly Blizzard can screw up on the server side. An update that should take a couple hours taking down servers for 8-12 hours without so much as an apology from Blizzard. Did they even bother to issue something as simple as a "we're sorry" for all D3 the problems?
 
TheCommander said:
Thing is with or without singleplayer, it can be accomplished. The game will eventually be cracked and the tinkering will occur.

As for the gameplay itself, I agree it isnt as epic.
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Disagree; I played WOW for years and duping/fake items never were an issue. Sure there was some botting going on, but even that was fairly rare and was primarily just gold farmers.

Disposed said:
More bullshit. No reason they couldnt tag single player offline items as unsellable. Oh wait you said exactly that yourself below... So why is the always on required again?
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This has been explained logically in dozens of posts at this point. If you make the loot engine available on the client side, it can and will be data mined to work around whatever "tags" you would put on it. By completely removing the code and logic from the client and placing it server side it makes it much more secure.

Yes I agree that it sucks for those who just want to play SP, especially with the Battle.net issues. However IMO the tradeoff is more than worth it, as someone who played D1 and D2 online for hundreds of hours and witnessed the rampant duping and hacked items.
 
dremic said:
Is there any proof at all that professional review sites are paid by associated with game companies? at all?
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_PixelNinja said:
Google 'Jeff Gerstmann'. That will give you a gist of how it often works behind the curtains.
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Derangel said:
That wasn't a case of anyone being paid off it was a case of the management of Gamespot at the time not understanding the way things work and refusing to stand up for their employees. No one was paid off to do anything.
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It isn't so much that a company is paid off to write good reviews. More like the reviewers are usually afraid to write a bad review and piss off the company supplying the items being reviewed. Be it games or hardware. Negative press means you won't get your samples anymore. Or it could mean not getting them on time. Late articles equal lost revenue. Advertisers won't advertise on your site if you constantly bash their products.

It's very simple really.
 
Derangel said:
Nothing will prevent piracy. Fighting it by pissing off paying customers is a bad idea.
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I totally agree...unfortunately they will still make truck loads of money and people will eventually forget until the next major release, and the cycle will continue. :(
 
TwistedAegis said:
Disagree; I played WOW for years and duping/fake items never were an issue. Sure there was some botting going on, but even that was fairly rare and was primarily just gold farmers.



This has been explained logically in dozens of posts at this point. If you make the loot engine available on the client side, it can and will be data mined to work around whatever "tags" you would put on it. By completely removing the code and logic from the client and placing it server side it makes it much more secure.

Yes I agree that it sucks for those who just want to play SP, especially with the Battle.net issues. However IMO the tradeoff is more than worth it, as someone who played D1 and D2 online for hundreds of hours and witnessed the rampant duping and hacked items.
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I agree with this. After seeing the hack fest that is bf3 firsthand I am willing to make sacrifices to have as legit a gaming experience as possible,
 
Derangel said:
Nothing will prevent piracy. Fighting it by pissing off paying customers is a bad idea.
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If Piratebay wasnt down, im sure twenty million users would have been logging on to find a bypass torrent during the outage....I know I was.
Always-on-SP is fucking stupid and I hope everyone at Blizzard gets buried under hundreds of buckets of dicks.
 
Dan_D said:
It isn't so much that a company is paid off to write good reviews. More like the reviewers are usually afraid to write a bad review and piss off the company supplying the items being reviewed. Be it games or hardware. Negative press means you won't get your samples anymore. Or it could mean not getting them on time. Late articles equal lost revenue. Advertisers won't advertise on your site if you constantly bash their products.

It's very simple really.
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Which is the flip side of the same coin. I understand, it's the coprorate mentality that's tearing the world's economy apart, sales and profit at the expense of quality. Either way you cut it, it's still crap :)

Regarding the server issues, Blizzard most definately does NOT get a free pass. They have the most extensive history of online and MMORPG gaming on the planet? Are some of you seriously trying to justify their lack of capacity planning? Did they not learn from all the expansion releases of WOW, and the preorder-hype of D3, and the beta weekend? There's no way they did not have enough data the reasonably plan for initial demand. They chose not to, that's all there is to it. I'd bet they planned for their expected sustained demand, and then left the initial rush to deal with that capacity.
 
TwistedAegis said:
This has been explained logically in dozens of posts at this point. If you make the loot engine available on the client side, it can and will be data mined to work around whatever "tags" you would put on it. By completely removing the code and logic from the client and placing it server side it makes it much more secure.
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This reasoning is insanely ignorant. The data can be mined either way. Being able to mine the data does not magically change the code to allow offline items to be sold.
 
Disposed said:
This reasoning is insanely ignorant. The data can be mined either way. Being able to mine the data does not magically change the code to allow offline items to be sold.
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No, no it isn't. It would more easily allow for people to understand how items are generated and thus dupe/hack them online. For example, see WOW - no duping or item hacking. Look at D2 - massive duping and item hacking. Maybe there could have been an alternate solution, but it most likely would have involved a lot of work without much corresponding reward.
 
Do user ratings for games on MetaCritic really matter? I tend to believe that it doesn't & I'll continue to enjoy D3 as much as possible.
 
TwistedAegis said:
No, no it isn't. It would more easily allow for people to understand how items are generated and thus dupe/hack them online. For example, see WOW - no duping or item hacking. Look at D2 - massive duping and item hacking. Maybe there could have been an alternate solution, but it most likely would have involved a lot of work without much corresponding reward.
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Keeping SP offline separate, or altering the item generator code for both online and offline might have cost them a little more dev money, but they would have avoided most of the user review shitstorm they are seeing now.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Keeping SP offline separate, or altering the item generator code for both online and offline might have cost them a little more dev money, but they would have avoided most of the user review shitstorm they are seeing now.
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True, that or actually properly allocating servers. One or the other, they should have picked it and stuck with it. :p
 
HOOfan_1 said:
Not to mention the great success of Skyrim proves that single player only is still a viable option...

So if single player only is only 1% of Diablo 3's sales...it could still be worth making a single player only game.
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Skyrim was a console first game and that made 90% of their sales, so piracy wasn't a big issue to them. D3 is a PC only game, completely different situation and dollars at stake.
 
Does anybody else think that this fiasco is giving them more publicity than they'd EVER get if it had gone smoothly?

The problems are not as astonishing to me as this phenomenon is as a meta event in gaming history. I've never seen such widespread discussion of a game. Like, people in every game I jump into are talking about it. Normal people in public are talking about it. It's fascinating.

And listening to this TB video is making my brain hurt. He's typically not so impressively moronic and out of touch with what's happening with the design of a game. Did I play the same TL2 beta as him? I actually can't wrap my brain around how wrong his comparisons are. His statements about the quality of mechanics and skill design, gear progression, aesthetics, level design, and atmosphere are actually so stupid that I cannot wrap my brain around it.

I know that he suffered a falling out with Blizzard over the last year or so, but try to be more transparent (and more importantly, CORRECT) with your criticisms. This game has no shortage of flaws and fuckups right now. It doesn't need people making shit up.
 
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The game just doesn't seem worth all these headaches. I think I'll just go with Torchlight 2, and skip all this bullshit.
 
krameriffic said:
Does anybody else think that this fiasco is giving them more publicity than they'd EVER get if it had gone smoothly?
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Yeah, but...it's bad publicity.

They already had good publicity going for them, they certainly didn't need this.
 
MavericK96 said:
Yeah, but...it's bad publicity.

They already had good publicity going for them, they certainly didn't need this.
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There is an old saying that goes "There is no such thing as bad publicity". It's very true in the game industry these days.
 
I don't know. Blizzard had so much advertising about this and is already a very well known company; if there had been a sex scandal with their CEO or something along those lines, sure maybe it could help.

But the game being completely unplayable for a large number of people on opening day? I think Blizzard has mostly hit market saturation in terms of the ratio of people who know about D3 to people who would buy D3; any bad publicity of this nature will just decrease sales.
 
Derangel said:
In other words you're #5 because only a fanboy can defend this DRM shit after how badly Blizzard fucked the launch.
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I honestly thought offline D2 was a waste of time and couldn't care less that there's no SP mode. The closed nature of the B.Net realms were what kept me interested since they fostered a community, economy, etc.

As for defending their launch debacle...it doesn't bother me. Why? Because, in the grand scheme of things, if the game is good we'll all be playing it for years so who fucking cares if we can't get online on DAY 1 for a chunk of hours after waiting 11 years for a sequel? I sure don't, but then, I expected this and wasn't foolish enough to book a vacation day for the launch.

The people confusing this server-side game with always-online DRM similar to that of Assassin's Creed just have no idea what the hell they're talking about. It's not "always online single player mode DRM", it's a multiplayer game that you can choose to play by yourself. Don't have an internet connection? Sorry, D3 isn't for you. Servers are down? Them's the breaks, just like it was back during D2 for me.
 
MavericK96 said:
Yeah, but...it's bad publicity.

They already had good publicity going for them, they certainly didn't need this.
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This is true, and I'm not totally sure I believe in the bad publicity saying, but this is not something permanent. These server issues will be ironed out (if they haven't been already) and while people will never truly forget that it happened (PC gamers never forget a slight) it has gotten word around in a way that I'm not sure I've ever seen before.

Type "err" into your Google search bar. The fact that what rises to the top is an error from Diablo 3 is impressive in a retarded kind of way. They said on the Giant Bombcast that it was trending worldwide on Twitter last night.
 
Aix. said:
I honestly thought offline D2 was a waste of time and couldn't care less that there's no SP mode. The closed nature of the B.Net realms were what kept me interested since they fostered a community, economy, etc.

As for defending their launch debacle...it doesn't bother me. Why? Because, in the grand scheme of things, if the game is good we'll all be playing it for years so who fucking cares if we can't get online on DAY 1 for a chunk of hours after waiting 11 years for a sequel? I sure don't, but then, I expected this and wasn't foolish enough to book a vacation day for the launch.

The people confusing this server-side game with always-online DRM similar to that of Assassin's Creed just have no idea what the hell they're talking about. It's not "always online single player mode DRM", it's a multiplayer game that you can choose to play by yourself. Don't have an internet connection? Sorry, D3 isn't for you. Servers are down? Them's the breaks, just like it was back during D2 for me.
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In other words "I don't care about single player and no one else should either" sorry but I don't give a damn about the multiplayer.
 
lloose said:
2- I hate drm. I hate that I have to be connected to the internet to play this. Nevermind the fact that the telephone sitting in my pocket has a full time internet connection that is over 10x faster than what was around when diablo 2 came out. The only thing in my home that doesn't have wifi is our toaster and I'll be buying one that does off of amazon the second I see one for sale. Its still wrong for them to require it.
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Except my internet was working just fine. Diablo III not so much.
 
Aix. said:
I honestly thought offline D2 was a waste of time and couldn't care less that there's no SP mode. The closed nature of the B.Net realms were what kept me interested since they fostered a community, economy, etc.

As for defending their launch debacle...it doesn't bother me. Why? Because, in the grand scheme of things, if the game is good we'll all be playing it for years so who fucking cares if we can't get online on DAY 1 for a chunk of hours after waiting 11 years for a sequel? I sure don't, but then, I expected this and wasn't foolish enough to book a vacation day for the launch.

The people confusing this server-side game with always-online DRM similar to that of Assassin's Creed just have no idea what the hell they're talking about. It's not "always online single player mode DRM", it's a multiplayer game that you can choose to play by yourself. Don't have an internet connection? Sorry, D3 isn't for you. Servers are down? Them's the breaks, just like it was back during D2 for me.
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One of Blizzard's arguments for always online that I always liked was the idea of people wanting to take their SP character into Battle.net and finding out that they couldn't (open Battle.net is the worst thing evarrrr). This is a real problem with offline characters in the old scheme. People spend a lot of time building up a character in SP and then some day, they realize that maybe they want the myriad perks that come with online play. But they can't have it because their character is stuck offline. Woops.

Even if you want to engage in the core gameplay alone, there are so many interesting perks that come along with putting it into a multiplayer context. One of the stupidest things in Totalbiscuit's rant is when he talks about this issue. For a guy who made his name off of MMO games, he doesn't really seem to understand them very well. The appeal of the social game, of the persistence, of finding new people to play with and establishing new relationships. The appeal of a persistent economy and metagame (once PvP is added) alone is enough to make me want to play it online.

Everything about it is good aside from these first few days of (totally and completely expected) server issues. From my perspective, in the modern world, it strikes me as hugely hypocritical and frankly stupid for people to argue against it. All of these ordinary people who are on Facebook and Twitter 12 hours a day complaining about what amounts to a persistent social aspect to their game. What kind of logic is that? This is exactly what you want out of a game, take the longview for once and realize that these issues will pass in a very short timescale compared to the potential longevity of this game.
 
Derangel said:
In other words "I don't care about single player and no one else should either" sorry but I don't give a damn about the multiplayer.
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Then I guess you shouldn't buy Diablo 3. I may have missed a few articles and statements but I was never under the impression that the game was shipping with a single player mode. Multiplayer was D2's bread 'n' butter and clearly Blizzard agreed. I also agree with them not giving out the keys to the kingdom for every hacker to break down and eventually exploit.
 
Aix. said:
Then I guess you shouldn't buy Diablo 3. I may have missed a few articles and statements but I was never under the impression that the game was shipping with a single player mode. Multiplayer was D2's bread 'n' butter and clearly Blizzard agreed. I also agree with them not giving out the keys to the kingdom for every hacker to break down and eventually exploit.
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If they didn't want a single player mode then they quite simply shouldn't have one.
 
Derangel said:
If they didn't want a single player mode then they quite simply shouldn't have one.
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IMO, they don't have a single player option. Its a multi player game that you can play alone. World of Warcraft is a massively multiplayer game, but does that mean you can't play it alone?
 
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