GeForce GTX 680 3-Way SLI & Radeon 7970 Tri-Fire Review @ [H]

From the review it is evident that AMD have a lot of catching up to in drivers. Its an example of good silicon being let down by poor software. Hope somebody at AMD is listening to such criticisms and doing something to improve the user experience :mad:
 
Skyrim only works in Crossfire, not Trifire, that's how its been for my Trifire 6990/6970 setup.

I hope Kyle does a refresh of this article when the 4GB versions are out maybe by then AMD will have fixed the Eyefinity BSOD too so that would give them a bit more of a chance in this fight.
 
demowhc said:
Elaborate please. [H] benched MSAA + SSAA Transparencies on Nvidia hardware, vs full scene Sparse Gride SSAA on AMD.

AMD does not have a Transparency SSAA option to compare, so you either have to bench SGSSAA vs SGSSAA, or Transparency MSAA vs Adaptive MSAA.
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I'm pretty sure AMD does: AAA.
But yes, further elaboration is needed.

The Radeon counterpart to TAAA is called adaptive anti-aliasing, released shortly after the GeForce 7 with AMD's Radeon X1000-series cards. It works similarly, except that AMD’s implementation is limited to supersampling, with the number of samples tied to the anti-aliasing level of the scene. Like Nvidia’s TrMSAA, AMD’s adaptive anti-aliasing only works with DirectX 9 game engines, and does not often work in practice.
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http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/anti-aliasing-nvidia-geforce-amd-radeon,2868-3.html
 
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Great review. AMD's hardware engineers need to go over to their driver team and start kicking their ass...they're wasting some amazing hardware with their tragically bad driver support right now.
 
boxleitnerb said:
I'm pretty sure AMD does: AAA in the highest quality setting.
But yes, further elaboration is needed.
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Afaik theres only 3 settings for Adaptive AA with GPU's newer than 4800 series, and thats off, MSAAA, or SGSSAA.

In any case its clear that [H] dont even know what Transparency AA, Adaptive AA and SSAA are.. since they benched AMD hardware using Adaptive AA in DX10+ for the last 2 or 3 years without even knowing it didnt work... and now this SGSSAA vs TRAA business I have seen in several of their recent reviews.
 
demowhc said:
Afaik theres only 3 settings for Adaptive AA with GPU's newer than 4800 series, and thats off, MSAAA, or SGSSAA.

In any case its clear that [H] dont even know what Transparency AA, Adaptive AA and SSAA are.. since they benched AMD hardware using Adaptive AA in DX10+ for the last 2 or 3 years without even knowing it didnt work... and now this SGSSAA vs TRAA business I have seen in several of their recent reviews.
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Should be pretty easy to find out which is which. Just look at the fps hit for each setting.
 
TwistedAegis said:
Great review. AMD's hardware engineers need to go over to their driver team and start kicking their ass...they're wasting some amazing hardware with their tragically bad driver support right now.
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couldn't agree more:mad:
 
Yeesh! Another bad day at the office for AMD. Man I tell ya, its hard being an AMD fanboy these days. :(
 
Roadhog said:
Sooo. Comparing SGSSAA on AMD vs no SGSSAA on nvidia is apples to apples?
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I just sold my 7970s crossfire and got a single GTX 680 because of Crossfire issues in certain games and I'm tired of waiting on Drivers.. I will tell you right now that Nvidia's Anti Aliasing does not compare to AMD's setup out of the Box. I have to use Nvidia inspector to compare to AMD's Supersampling and MS AA. Crysis 1 for example is one game on Nvidia that just can't compare at all to AMD's IQ no matter what i do. I do have to say interms of gameplay though games feel smoother because they are all optimized as hell.. It's a trade off of reliability in terms of driver issues for IQ. I think because most people come from Consoles anything looks better so they don't know any better. I've owned every single flagship graphics card since the Diamond Monster 3dfx excluding anything below a 9000 from ATI/AMD & a Nvidia 5800.
 
xoleras said:
Sorry to be critical, but someone should bring this up:

You use TrSS vs SSAA in apples to apples comaprisons. What? That is most certainly NOT apples to apples. Transparency AA is not full scene, TrSS is NOT full scene SSAA, if you want to use SSAA in these comparisons you have to force it in nvidia inspector. You compare TrSS vs SSAA in several comparisons: Thats kind of annoying because TrSS only covers transparent textures while SSAA covers everything. If you want SSAA use SGSSAA in nvidia inspector and make the comparison, you're comparing 2 different things completely. TrSS is nowhere NEAR as good as SSAA and you pass the comparisons off as if they're the same thing.

If you really want apples to apples you should do these tests by choosing "override application setting" in nvidia inspector, and choosing SGSSAA. That is the only means for an apples to apples comparison. TrSS is nowhere near as intensive or as good as full screen SSAA. The other issue is verifying that the override happens, nvidia inspector override a lot of times doesn't work, thus it should be verified to be working. But you can rest assured that SGSSAA will be a lot slower than TrSS and it will be a more valid comparison, as of right now it is not a valid comparison. This doesn't nullify your findings, nvidia is better for scaling beyond 2 gpu's for sure, but ultimately your ssaa vs trss comparison is flawed unless i'm really missing something.
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I will have Brent specifically reply to this. He is out for the rest of the day though, so it will not be immediate.
 
After upgrading to a 680 from a 7950 I greatly appreciate the difference in driver quality even with only using 1 card.
 
Much like the Tri 580 vs 6970 review, this needs a redux review on a board that supports pcie 3.0, and apples to apples Transparency AA & SSAA settings.

:cool:
 
deeppow said:
3 cards? I've not seen even one for sell at Newegg, Tiger, or Frys. Always "out of stock." Paper launch comes to mind.
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and are you actually wanting to buy one? of course not or you would know they go in and out of stock all the time. I could have bought one numerous times if I actually was in the market for it.
 
Is this the fix the article refers to?

Highlights of the AMD Catalyst 12.4 Windows release includes:

...

RESOLVED ISSUES

Resolved Issues for the Windows 7 Operating System

This section provides information on resolved known issues in this release of the AMD Catalyst 12.4 software suite for Windows 7. These include:
...
A system crash is no longer experienced when enabling Crossfire in a 4 display configuration.
...
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I have one issue with this, and that is the use of Sandy Bridge in the review. Yes the nf200 chip gives you some lanes on that motherboard, but still, I feel like you kind of gimped the results using pcie 2.0 8x slots for 680's when we know they need pcie 2.0 16x or pcie 3.0 8x to really breathe. And yes, I understand that this is a more "mainstream" bench to review these cards on compared to x79, but I do not understand how triple GPU's are mainstream... or let alone a WS motherboard - one of Asus' most expensive offerings on that socket.

So, is the next review going to use an x79 platform with PCIe 3.0 enabled? I can only imagine how limited those gpu's are after seeing some of Vega's comparison videos. I would absolutely love to see this entire review again on x79 or with an ivy bridge chip to see the shackles taken off those card and see their full potential.
 
slh28 said:
Did a quick google and it seems typing in "microstuttering crossfire" comes up with loads of hits! I don't think I've seen any review sites do this kind of analysis, but from the sound of things it's pretty important.
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It's fucking huge. I have a 6990 and I'm trying to figure out a way to get to GTX 680 2-way SLI ASAP because of this. I can't take the chopiness of Crossfire anymore, and AMD is doing absolutely nothing about it in their drivers. :mad:
 
thesecond said:
I have one issue with this, and that is the use of Sandy Bridge in the review. Yes the nf200 chip gives you some lanes on that motherboard, but still, I feel like you kind of gimped the results using pcie 2.0 8x slots for 680's when we know they need pcie 2.0 16x or pcie 3.0 8x to really breathe. And yes, I understand that this is a more "mainstream" bench to review these cards on compared to x79, but I do not understand how triple GPU's are mainstream... or let alone a WS motherboard - one of Asus' most expensive offerings on that socket.

So, is the next review going to use an x79 platform with PCIe 3.0 enabled? I can only imagine how limited those gpu's are after seeing some of Vega's comparison videos. I would absolutely love to see this entire review again on x79 or with an ivy bridge chip to see the shackles taken off those card and see their full potential.
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I agree, review needs to be done again on either a z77 WS board with Ivy Bridge, or x79 system. Plus apples to apples AA testing.
 
Thanks for the review. It's sad to see AMD STILL having driver issues after all this time. I've sworn off them for the foreseeable future. They need to do at least a year of solid driver updates before I'll look at them again.
 
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Thank you for the review.

If one were to build an eyefinity or surround setup, would using 120hz monitors help or make the situation worse for AMD in terms of smoothness?
 
Awesome review....makes me wonder however, how the gtx690 is gonna be?

Last generation 2 x gtx590 was slower or just as fast as 3 x gtx 580's?

If they make a version of the gtx680 with more memory i wonder if it'll help even more?

I have a 30 inch monitor and i have tri sli in gtx 580 and am very happy, but, i wouldnt mind getting over 100 fps just so it seems even more silky smooth....or hopefully bring my temps in my room down lol....tri-sli has a tendency to put off some heat.
 
"Thanks for the email – yes this is a known issue, and is certainly considered a critical issue to be resolved ASAP. Catalyst 12.4 will be releasing on Wednesday and will include a couple of Eyefinity fixes (noted below). This specific issue you refer to is actively being investigated and we are trying to get it resolved for Catalyst 12.5; as soon as we have a driver release with the fix I will send it your way to verify that it resolves the issue for you as well. -Andrew Dodd"

My name is Andrew Dodd!!! F'ckin A!!!
 
demingo said:
Yep

I have a nice stack of paper in my system right now. My paper stack runs Skyrim/BF3 amazingly well. :rolleyes:

There is a difference between a "paper launch" where a product is announced and none is shipped out to vendors, and a successful launch where demand outpaced supply. I bought my 680 GTX day 1 when there were plenty at the egg.
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Must be nice - i've been checking New Egg every day since the 680 came out - have yet to see them in stock. I almost just jumped on an OC 7970 from Sapphire for $459 today.
 
Thanks for the review. I must say it's pretty weird reading right after reading this review of 2-way, 3-way and 4-way SLI/Crossfire:

http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/gtx680_quad_sli_vs_hd7970_quad_crossfirex,1.html

In their review, crossfire consistently provides better scaling and FPS than SLI, but they don't actually seem to 'play' the games they're testing, so an evaluation of the the 'feel' of the games is missing. That's the sort of thing I very much value here at [H].

Yes, I'm disappointed that AMD hasn't yet fixed some driver issues, but at least they CAN be fixed. Buying a 2Gb card for my eyefinity setup, however, is something that cannot be fixed with a driver update. I must say I'm probably going to grab a 7950 like the Gigabyte or Asus custom versions, and a 2nd 7950 in a few months to crossfire, as I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a $500 graphics card that's already running out of texture memory in some games the day I throw it into my system.
 
twzTechman said:
Must be nice - i've been checking New Egg every day since the 680 came out - have yet to see them in stock. I almost just jumped on an OC 7970 from Sapphire for $459 today.
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My sentiments exactly. I have yet to check ANY distributor or store that either has a single GTX680, or is getting any that I can reserve. Frankly, I'm probably going to get a 7950 because:

1) I can actually FIND and BUY one.
2) I refuse to buy a $500 card that is already demonstrated to be running out of texture memory at eyefinity resolutions with existing games.

I don't care how fast and fluid it is, if it's already obsolete before I've even charged my credit card the $500, screw that. I'd rather play with the candidate driver and wait for Catalyst 12.5. At least that's a software issue. No driver update will add more VRAM to the GTX680 2Gb.
 
Thanks for the review! I'd be very interested to see if the 12.4 or 12.5 AMD drivers fix the issue of "feel", as I would like to see the X79 platform review with a high end Asus motherboard (Sabertooth or Rampage IV etc), 16gb RAM quad channel, and a SB-E 6-core (preferably 3930k but 3960x would likely be just as likely an option for those who are footing the bill for 3 GPU cards and 3 monitors), if the [H] crew can get ahold of the hardware (Maybe Asus would be willing to send some demo stuff? I Their RoG team would like to get the word out I'm sure).

It is a pity that stuff like this gives people ammo for the whole "AMD Drivers Suck" angle, when Tri-Fire+Eyefinity 3+ is a very small percentage of the userbase. This is not to say that those users don't deserve prompt fixes, but I'm glad that there was at least a note in the review saying that both cards have relatively few issues when running in less exotic setups.

Thanks again. Its great to see these more exotic setups putting these cards through their paces.
 
Rizen said:
It's called microstuttering, and it's a real problem. Google it. It's been a problem for both NVIDIA and ATI, but NVIDIA seemingly has been able to work around it better in drivers than AMD has.
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I've been running at least two GPUs for the last 5 years. I guess my eyes are bad.

So you don't think this is a salient point in a comparison review for 3x GPU setups? Maybe it's a low priority issue overall, but it's sure as hell a big issue if you are shopping for 3 GPUs right now, and trying to decide between NVIDIA and AMD.
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No I don't. Maybe to a handful of people, but not many.

Triple monitor resolutions would like to have a word with you.
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Been running EyeFinity since it was released.:D

When you are looking to spend $1500 on a GPU setup, I would wager that a lot of those people want it to work spectacularly out of the box. It's not impossible to find GTX680s you just need to shop around.
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It's not the GPUs, it's the software and the games. There's not a game out that needs three cards.

I would not go with an AMD multi-GPU solution right now.. the driver support for the 7xxx series has been garbage when it comes to Eyefinity/CFX in comparison to the 6xxx series.
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and you know this how? I have not had a single issue and I've had the 7970 pair I currently run since the series was released. I have not had a single issue with Crossfire+Eyefinity. But that's just me. MMV I guess.:D
 
raghu78 said:
From the review it is evident that AMD have a lot of catching up to in drivers. Its an example of good silicon being let down by poor software. Hope somebody at AMD is listening to such criticisms and doing something to improve the user experience :mad:
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You didn't read the review very well........this ONLY applies to TripleCrossfire + EyeFinity.

Yup, I agree though, it would be like buying a Corvette (or whatever highend you like) and having it sit in the driveway, brand new, because it won't start.

That said, my Crossfired 7970s + EyeFinity are doing just fine.
 
heatlesssun said:
It's pretty easy to suck up the power of even 3 680s running 3D Surround.
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That's pretty exotic, right there,too.;)

What you say is very true, but I think this article is very biased, and in fairness to AMD should have been completed when the Trifire driver problem has been corrected and current.

This is not a truly fair comparison, but it IS AMD's fault for dragging behind. That said it only applies to a very,very few users.
 
Great review!!!!!

I too agree that Nivida drivers are just better. They always have been. I sold my 5780 on ebay because it wouldn't play and of the StrongHold's with any driver's I tried. Mind you , not the only game I play, but I want a card to play old stuff too.

I bought dual 460 SLI's and no driver problems, and plenty fast.

I've had 3d video cards since the Matrox/3dfx days before Direct X, always had better success with Nivida Drivers, I think they are more of a software company that makes hardware versus a hardware company that software.
 
magoo said:
That's pretty exotic, right there,too.;)

What you say is very true, but I think this article is very biased, and in fairness to AMD should have been completed when the Trifire driver problem has been corrected and current.

This is not a truly fair comparison, but it IS AMD's fault for dragging behind. That said it only applies to a very,very few users.
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Why the fuck can no one ever just say the HD 7970 is not a better card than the GTX 680. Every fucking review here comparing the 7970 and 680 is said to have some kind of error that invalidates the entire review(you didn't particularly say this) just because the HD 7970 doesn't win. Just fucking accept the fact that the 7970 IS NOT the best card out right now and that the whole "MOAR VRAM IS BETTER LOLZ" is complete horseshit as seen by this review and the others, since when the details are cranked up the card itself(7970) doesn't even have enough power to make real use of the extra VRAM.
 
magoo said:
What you say is very true, but I think this article is very biased, and in fairness to AMD should have been completed when the Trifire driver problem has been corrected and current.
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This makes no sense. The 7970 was launched three months before the 680 and cards like the 7970 and 680 are supposed to support these kinds of exotic setups. If AMD doesn't care about this market and months later still hasn't fixed its CF and Eyefinity issues in its latest drivers, then just tell us how long should we wait? For the AMD 8000s?

I know that there a lot of people complaining about the fairness of this review. I won't comment on that but the fact that in three months AMD hasn't bothered to fix their drivers to support users like myself tells me that they aren't interested in my business. Like you said, small user base and that's fine. This member of that small user base seems to have a better supported product from nVidia. And in my case being a 3D user, AMD isn't even an option anyway.

AMD just doesn't have the software support that nVidia does currently.
 
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