Funny, people said that back with the GC and Wii as well. Both sold very well and made Nintendo a tidy profit. Compared to the Dreamcast which completely bombed after Sony outmaneuvered Sega and doomed them to their current state.
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Devs Say Wii U Weaker Than Current Consoles
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
Funny, people said that back with the GC and Wii as well. Both sold very well and made Nintendo a tidy profit. Compared to the Dreamcast which completely bombed after Sony outmaneuvered Sega and doomed them to their current state.
With mobile phones having GPU's as powerful as handhelds and rapidly approching current consoles graphical levels, Nintendo is going to have an uphill climb to sell a device that just does gaming. Nintendo keeps this up they will end up like Sega.
But when the gamecube came out they didn't have to contend with the PS3 and Xbox360 plus mobile phones with graphical abilities that rival handhelds.
I think if Nintendo doesn't reinvent itself soon, they will be pushed out of the Western market and fade away maybe into another Sega situation.
zero2dash
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I think they did reinvent themselves...with the Wii.
The problem is - where do they go from here? I don't see them continuing on that same path of profit that they've been on since the Wii debut.
The 3DS has sold but has largely sold below expectations, and I don't see any reason to believe that it won't continue to sell but stay below expections.
It seems to me like Nintendo banked on an idea and succeeded....but they don't have a backup plan. If the WiiU is their backup plan....sorry, I'm not buying into that one and I think they're going to fail miserably this time. Again I bring up...who is going to buy a WiiU? Where are they catering now? It's going to be a very hard sell to casuals and hardcore gamers. Casuals are probably content with sticking with their Wii (that most of them don't even use anymore). Hardcore gamers are going to spend anything they might have set aside on the WiiU on the next Playstation or Xbox, either of which will clearly push the envelope on graphics, sound, and online capabilities.
The Wii was like a child left behind the first time around, only the plan worked.
I don't see the WiiU having the same success; I don't think lightning will strike twice on this one.
I'm in a "wait and see" mode with the Wii U. I think most people are. I'm hearing some really interesting ideas with the Wii-tablet device.
One game shown at E3 (had a very B-rated alien movie title) looked promising. It was L4D type game with aliens. 4 survivors who can play co-op together. Yet instead of some great AI Director to kill you, you can have a 5th player using the Wii-tablet sending alien hordes your way and generally making life hard for you.
Other ideas I’ve heard is using the Wii-tablet like a DM-ing device, yes D&D style. Another idea tossed around is using it like a fighting arcade stick, think about it you can have as many buttons you want, complete with move list right on the screen.
Will developers really take advantage of all these ideas, that has yet to be proven.
One game shown at E3 (had a very B-rated alien movie title) looked promising. It was L4D type game with aliens. 4 survivors who can play co-op together. Yet instead of some great AI Director to kill you, you can have a 5th player using the Wii-tablet sending alien hordes your way and generally making life hard for you.
Other ideas I’ve heard is using the Wii-tablet like a DM-ing device, yes D&D style. Another idea tossed around is using it like a fighting arcade stick, think about it you can have as many buttons you want, complete with move list right on the screen.
Will developers really take advantage of all these ideas, that has yet to be proven.
dr.stevil
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I don't know about that... Nintendo (currently) seems to be in the exact same spot that Sega was in with the Dreamcast. The Wii is outclassed by both the PS3 and the 360 and it sounds like that will be the case with the WiiU as well.
The gamecube, while it didn't have many 'great' titles and suffered from an awkward controller, was still a powerhouse of a machine compared to the Xbox and PS2.
If Nintendo doesn't get some timed exclusives for AAA games and give gamers a compelling reason to switch over to their new system from a PS3 or 360 (and cater to mature audiences), I have my doubts about it's long term success. It will likely sell well for a year or two and then drop off sharply when the next gen Sony and MS systems launch.
With the exception of young children, Nintendo is no longer hip with younger crowds. Everyone wants an Xbox or PS3.
Their profits and stocks are in the toilet. It would take a miracle to turn themselves around at this point IMO... and honestly, the WiiU doesn't seem like that miracle.
Cmdrmonkey
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You don't need powerful, modern hardware for girly games, kiddy games, and shovelware.
MavericK
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Agreed. Since the Gamecube or so the only real reason to buy Nintendo has been for the first-party titles. Sadly, there have not been enough coming out in succession to really sustain the Wii, from what I've seen.
Hopefully they deliver more with the Wii-U than we are hearing. Otherwise I have to say they will probably be in a world of hurt if they don't shift focus.
http://kotaku.com/5899125/nobody-knows-how-powerful-the-wii-u-actually-is?popular=true
like i said the dev kits and console are not final they are in prototype stage nobody knows a fucking thing they only have instructions to go about here but do not go ever this.
in other words nintendo has not given a final list of any code or anything else you can use and wont until after the wii u shipps.
the name wii u is not even final.
like i said the dev kits and console are not final they are in prototype stage nobody knows a fucking thing they only have instructions to go about here but do not go ever this.
in other words nintendo has not given a final list of any code or anything else you can use and wont until after the wii u shipps.
the name wii u is not even final.
I admit Wii is limited in good games but that doesn't mean there isn't any. Xenoblade Chronicles and The Last Story are considered to be the best JRPGs this gen.
Nintendo biggest problem was not playing nice with 3rd parties and it appears they are fixing that. Games like Assassin’s Creed 3, Darksiders 2, Gearbox’s Alien game (possibly Borderlands 2) all coming to Wii U.
I wouldn't count Nintendo out just yet.
Nintendo biggest problem was not playing nice with 3rd parties and it appears they are fixing that. Games like Assassin’s Creed 3, Darksiders 2, Gearbox’s Alien game (possibly Borderlands 2) all coming to Wii U.
I wouldn't count Nintendo out just yet.
zero2dash
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The problem is all of those games are multiplatform and coming to the other consoles; depending on development and release time, they may even appear on the new Xbox/Playstation consoles.
If they only appear on current consoles + the WiiU, the issue is people already own 360/Ps3 so why buy a WiiU for any of those titles when in most cases the only differences would be different control scheme (ie forced motion controls) and possibly, best case scenario - slightly better graphics?
If those games appear on next gen consoles + the WiiU, then they will appear in better form on the other consoles because the WiiU will be the weakest hardware out of the bunch. The only way it wouldn't be is if Microsoft and Sony decide to release new consoles with very little upgrade over what's already available; somehow, I think that's highly unlikely.
The end result? The WiiU is still the last place system in terms of power. Why buy multiplatform for it when a better gaming experience can be found elsewhere?
Nintendo pigeonholed themselves into a niche with the Wii, and they're apparently OK with doing the same thing with the WiiU. Weakest graphics, weakest sound, poorest online play experience, and generally forced motion controls. Nintendo can rename the WiFi Connection "The Nintendo Network" like they've done, but until I see a unified username list instead of friend codes, along with messaging and chat.....no thanks.
MavericK
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True, but frankly the Wii was disappointing technically (other than the motion control stuff, which was more of a novelty). The reason it sold well had nothing to do with how strong it was technically.
Rumor: Nintendo to take on Gran Turismo and Forza
http://www.dualpixels.com/profiles/...pment-?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
Gran Turismo, Forza, and a third challenger? Yes. Dual Pixels has gotten word, in significant detail, that Nintendo is working on their killer app simulation racer for Wii U that is designed to put GT and Forza on their heels. Having dominated the kart/arcade racing market with Mario Kart, Nintendo is shifting their focus. Their newest project, which our source (who has insight of Nintendo developments) refers to as "Concept Grand Prix", is in development by Lucid Games made up of ex-Developers of Bizarre Creations (Fur Fighters, Project Gotham Racing, Blur).
Concept Grand Prix is expected to provide extremely realistic physics, with controls and gameplay similar to Project Gotham. Players will begin their careers working for R&D Division, one of many fictional automobile manufacturers and concept design providers in the game. The title features a deep car customization element which allows you to build cars from scratch based on concepts provided by car manufacturers such as R&D Division. Using Wii U's tablet, players can customize everything from the vehicles individual spark plugs to curing plastics on the exterior finish. Once a player finishes their first vehicle, they'll be put through R&D Tests, which has been directly compared to Gran Turismo's licensing system.
Both Gran Turismo and Forza their latest additions to the series have a strong community focus, something Lucid Games has acknowledged. Concept Grand Prix will be a community centric game that embraces the car enthusiasts it will attract. Nintendo is hoping CGP inspires real life manufacturers to pursue designs produced by the game's community, and they may even host a contest to promote the title.
CGP 's online multiplayer will add longevity to the title by providing monthly challenges many of which will require you to design cars to pass downloadable R&D Tests. Online races will accommodate 12-players simultaneously; you will earn points by creating cars and racing them for your company.
Concept Grand Prix's motive is clear; Forza and Gran Turismo are the definitive racers of their respective consoles. However, GT and Forza offer real life prestigious car manufactures with long legacies in automobile engineering, and it's looking like CGP will not. Perhaps the hassles of pursing licensing from dozens of car manufacturers for vehicles influenced Nintendo to take a renegade approach in delivering a new high profile racer.
Dual Pixels' source has told us to expect a Concept Grand Prix announcement at or leading up to E3 2012.
http://www.dualpixels.com/profiles/...pment-?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
Gran Turismo, Forza, and a third challenger? Yes. Dual Pixels has gotten word, in significant detail, that Nintendo is working on their killer app simulation racer for Wii U that is designed to put GT and Forza on their heels. Having dominated the kart/arcade racing market with Mario Kart, Nintendo is shifting their focus. Their newest project, which our source (who has insight of Nintendo developments) refers to as "Concept Grand Prix", is in development by Lucid Games made up of ex-Developers of Bizarre Creations (Fur Fighters, Project Gotham Racing, Blur).
Concept Grand Prix is expected to provide extremely realistic physics, with controls and gameplay similar to Project Gotham. Players will begin their careers working for R&D Division, one of many fictional automobile manufacturers and concept design providers in the game. The title features a deep car customization element which allows you to build cars from scratch based on concepts provided by car manufacturers such as R&D Division. Using Wii U's tablet, players can customize everything from the vehicles individual spark plugs to curing plastics on the exterior finish. Once a player finishes their first vehicle, they'll be put through R&D Tests, which has been directly compared to Gran Turismo's licensing system.
Both Gran Turismo and Forza their latest additions to the series have a strong community focus, something Lucid Games has acknowledged. Concept Grand Prix will be a community centric game that embraces the car enthusiasts it will attract. Nintendo is hoping CGP inspires real life manufacturers to pursue designs produced by the game's community, and they may even host a contest to promote the title.
CGP 's online multiplayer will add longevity to the title by providing monthly challenges many of which will require you to design cars to pass downloadable R&D Tests. Online races will accommodate 12-players simultaneously; you will earn points by creating cars and racing them for your company.
Concept Grand Prix's motive is clear; Forza and Gran Turismo are the definitive racers of their respective consoles. However, GT and Forza offer real life prestigious car manufactures with long legacies in automobile engineering, and it's looking like CGP will not. Perhaps the hassles of pursing licensing from dozens of car manufacturers for vehicles influenced Nintendo to take a renegade approach in delivering a new high profile racer.
Dual Pixels' source has told us to expect a Concept Grand Prix announcement at or leading up to E3 2012.
Gloom and doom? At best, devs are saying it just matches 2005/2006 era consoles, with not much special about it: http://www.gamereactor.se/nyheter/43021/GRTV:+Darksiders+II-intervju/
And at worst, this thread shows that may not be the story for other developers. Nintendo aimed low, but it doesn't matter much anyways. Nintendo games will only run on it and it appears to be (nearly, if not outright) "good enough" in specs where multi-platform developers will support it with demanding games that run on the 360/PS3. That isn't "gloom and doom" unless this reality clashes with unrealistic hope.
Is Wii U a console with a POWER7 Watson CPU plus a HD4850-class GPU? No, and neither is the devkit. That was just plain wishful thinking, ignoring economics and Nintendo's console philosophy.
The problem with multiplatform support is this:
Right now, the upcoming Wii U is too new and poorly understood for a lot of multiplatform developers to commit to supporting. Once it becomes well-enough understood that ports are easy, Microsoft and Sony will have released new consoles with specs that are in another league entirely, and ports will again require serious downscaling.
Right now, the upcoming Wii U is too new and poorly understood for a lot of multiplatform developers to commit to supporting. Once it becomes well-enough understood that ports are easy, Microsoft and Sony will have released new consoles with specs that are in another league entirely, and ports will again require serious downscaling.
BladeVenom
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Sounds bad for Nintendo.
nobody_here
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but what do pc gaming standards and consoles have in common? mostly nothing. the vast majority of people buying and using consoles have no interest at all in pc gaming or it's capabilities. they are still blown away with the PS3/360 graphics scaled to 1080p on their big screen.
there's little benefit for them to significantly upgrade right now and given the weak economy they would have a hard time re cooping the cost
Stone Cold
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I'd say the Wii U will be Nintindo's swan song, except Nintendo owns the kiddie market.
Youn
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Well, the only thing I'll say is that MANY people thought Wii was gonna be horrid and put Nintendo out of business. Oh, looky here, that turned out to not be the case. Of course these same people will say Wii is an old turd, but it's hard to argue that it was a success for many customers and a success for Nintendo.That being said, Nintendo is known for taking risks but has managed to survive. We'll find out soon enough if Wii U really goes the way of Virtual Boy, seems to me it'd have to do worse then that to put Nintendo out of business.
MavericK
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The reason why the Wii was popular was because a lot of non-gamer consumers bought them. If you based opinion solely on hardcore gamers, I guarantee the Wii would have failed miserably.
That was NEVER their audiance with the Wii. That's like me making the argument that if you base the PS3's success rate off of people without tvs living in 3rd world countries, I guarantee that it would have failed miserably.
DeathPrincess
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CapnCrunch10
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IMO, Wii U will do just fine. I don't understand why people are assuming the lack of a hardcore market in Nintendo's plans is the reason every console they make will fail. Has any of their consoles or games tried to appeal to the hardcore gamers? Is that market even the most profitable to be honest (asking this on [H] is suicide I know). Nintendo has spread in most niche of niche markets (Fitness, the elderly, families) and it's done amazing for them in terms of hardware sales. And in my opinion, that is what Nintendo's goal is--hardware sales. The situation will still be the same for the next round of consoles, Sony and Microsoft will appeal to the "hardcore" fans and Nintendo will be casual.
Likewise, the advantages/disadvantages of each one will still be the same as well. Nintendo's games are still making 4 players on a single console whereas MS and Sony seem to do everything they can to make that impossible. Nintendo's online system is a joke and MS and Sony are doing their best to make this the appeal of their consoles.
I also don't believe that what they release in 2012 will be inferior to something in 2005/2006. It's tough enough to compare consoles with any kind of accurate/fair test, but I would hope 6+ years would be reason enough that even if they had the same production costs, the hardware itself would be better.
Likewise, the advantages/disadvantages of each one will still be the same as well. Nintendo's games are still making 4 players on a single console whereas MS and Sony seem to do everything they can to make that impossible. Nintendo's online system is a joke and MS and Sony are doing their best to make this the appeal of their consoles.
I also don't believe that what they release in 2012 will be inferior to something in 2005/2006. It's tough enough to compare consoles with any kind of accurate/fair test, but I would hope 6+ years would be reason enough that even if they had the same production costs, the hardware itself would be better.
D
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I don't disagree that you cannot sell or won't sell to a casual market. What I do suggest is that it is a short term cash in. I personally know of quite a few non-gamer families who bought a Wii because they were at someone's house and saw them Wii bowling. So yeah, it sells.
But I also know they all bought them when they were on sale and none of them are using their Wiis or Fits anymore. They bought them because it looked fun and to entertain guests, but now they just sit there collecting dust and they have no intentions of buying any more games. Again, they are not gamers and as such, are not even interested in new Wii party/sports games.
This type of buyer has a short attention span, a tighter wallet and worst of all no loyalties. When the next cool casual thing comes out they will switch, no matter what company sells it. We are seening it already in the handheld to smartphone switch.
The real gamers are what is keeping Nintendo alive long term. The ones that keep buying every Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon when they come out.
The 17-35 year old male is still the real, long term, bread and butter to the gaming industry. They will be paying to keep the industry alive when everyone else gets bored and switches to the "next best thing".
So you basically disagree with all of the market research done over the past 5-10 years showing that this group you mention is actually the least interesting?
tuksonrider
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Wii U will be a day one purchase.
D
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Actually no. I didn't mention interesting. I'm saying you need this market for long term sustainability. Going after the bubble gum pop culture market, which is the strategy of the mainstream music industry, is what is hot right now for gaming. Hence Angry Birds and Zynga.
But brand names have never survived chasing this big money, again due to the lack of loyalty from those buyers. Just look at how they buy phones. They'll switch from BBs, to iPhones to any free on contract anybrand Android at the drop of a hat.
This market creates monster brand names then leaves them for dead. If Nintendo dropped all of their traditional IP (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, etc.) and chased the "hot" and "interesting" pop culture market how long do you figure they would be around?
My guess is their consoles would be in the closest Goodwill or Salvation Army next to a pair of Guess jeans in just a few years.