Please Critique My First Mini-ITX Build (Sugo Series SG05BB-450)

Sharpe

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
82
Greetings!

Recently, my friend wanted me to spec a budget system (using Newegg) for his eight-year-old son, but decided not to pull the trigger right now.

No longer being a "computer guy," I had fun designing the system with the help of the [H]. It's been maybe a decade since I was interested in computers.

Anyway, I've about talked myself into a budget HTPC build. I have a large, new-ish LG HDTV. It's at home, and I can't recall the exact model or even size. Of course, it has HDMI ports. Hooked up to it, I have an Xbox 360 that I almost never play.

My friends and I play MW3 and Black Ops on it, but I'm far from a gamer. I play very few modern games and I only play them rarely, so there's no reason to throw me in with the console-gamer culture.

What I want is a small computer that looks like just another appliance -- glossy black with few lights and buttons and such. I want it to play DVD and Blu-ray disks so that it can replace my budget player.

I probably won't play many first-person shooters or other high-end games, but I may venture into the world of Skyrim or Dark Souls. Since I'm accustomed to console graphics, I won't need a system that can run games ultra-high settings at super-high resolutions.

But, I want it to still be a nice system in four or five years, so updatability is a bonus.

I'm absolutely sold on this Sugo Series SG05BB-450 case. It looks great -- though why the heck did they put a white fan in it?!

That all said, I filled out the questionnaire:

  • Gaming -- Some, but gaming won't be the main priority of this system. I will move to the new Xbox when it debuts.
  • Photoshop -- Both PS and Gimp, yes. Often, maybe. The ability to work with 4,000x4,000-pixel images will be needed.
  • Overclocking -- No. None.
  • Web browsing -- Often, yes.
  • HTPC/Playback -- Yes, and this will be important as I would like this to replace my existing Blu-ray and DVD player both.
  • What's your budget? -- About $999 for the box, not including software, speakers, cables, peripherals, etc.
  • Is cost a driving factor in component selection? -- No more than it is for any other wage slave.
  • Do you have any big computer chains nearby? -- Nope. I'd prefer this entire build to come from Newegg.
  • What exact parts do you need for that budget? -- If it's in the case, I need it. The box will use no existing parts. Case/PS, CPU, mobo, RAM, video card, sound card (?), SSD, HDD, Blu-ray reader, DVD reader/writer, etc.
  • What specific features do you need in a motherboard? -- The ability to support nearly all currently standard tech is required: RAID, Crossfire or SLI support, USB 3.0, SATA 6G, etc.
  • Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? -- Ouch. That's a tough one. If I had the measurements of the shelf space under my TV, I'd be able to provide exact maximum size specifications. I'll come back to this when I get a chance.
  • What resolution output do you need? -- My TV supports 1080p and Blu-ray looks awesome on it, so awesome that I'm completely spoiled by it. I dislike going to the movie theater now and am enraged when an older, but popular movie isn't made available in it!
  • Do you need multiple monitor output? -- I don't need it, but it would be nice.
  • How comfortable are you with custom case modification and electrical wiring? -- I'm not at all.
  • How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? -- It's probably not too important as the computer will be behind a glass door inside a cabinet.
  • How mobile does this system need to be? -- It doesn't need to be mobile.
  • Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? -- No. I'd like to move to Windows 8 when it debuts. Until then, I'll stick with Windows 7 64bit.
  • When do you plan on building/buying the PC? -- In no more than a couple months.

Here's what a little time at Newegg got me:


Whew! That comes to $1,245 without shipping and I've probably forgotten things. That's bit bit over budget... Chopping off $400 would make that an easier pill to swallow.

Not sure what solid-state drive I should get. The SSD market right now is just screwed up. The Cherryville drives sound great, but they are crazy expensive. I'd like to keep it under $250 for the SSD.

I didn't do much research on the RAM, either. I've never built a DDR3 system, and I don't know what today's players are putting out. Would there be a noticeable difference between 2x4GB and 2x8GB? What is the fast RAM timings now?

Thanks for reading and for all your build suggestions!


-Sharpe
 
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I like the idea of using the SandForce SF-2281 controller, so I may consider going to the OCZ Vertex 3 for less, but I'm worried about the BSoDs...
 
Is there any reason you particularly want that slim slot bluray drive? If you didn't mind a tray drive you could save $100 and apply that to a bigger processor / more ram to make your heavy photoshop usage experience better ;)
 
The idea of a budget is that you buy stuff that fits into it.

You want ot save $400 of the $1200. Cut the price of each item by 30%. See what that gets you.

It is difficult to make suggestions as to what to change without a clear understanding of how you value different options.

(I am down in the $4-500 range for computers. Plus whatever bling I want. And bling includes SSD and higher end CPUs
 
For starters. If you are not getting a K series, then get a 2400, instead of the 2500. If you are going to get an OS SSD, then between that and the non-K series, no need to get the Z68.

Wouldn't suggest getting a HDD right now. The prices have gone up to high. If you have to get a 1TB for around $100.

I would suggest a 1GB 6950, or 6870 over the 560. Specially when building a SFF, just to much heat output and that 560 isn't the great performer for that price range.


That is also nearly $100 more expensive then it needs to be for an SSD. Get a Crucial M4 or Plextor M3 128GB for reliability and great performance, or an OCZ Vertex 3 for overall performance. But don't spend that much for just released Intel drive.
 
If gaming is not a priority I would downgrade the 560 to maybe a cheaper 5670 (or 6xxx equivalent) as I think that combo will be more than capable of whatever light gaming you want as well as your photoshop needs. And agreed on no need for a z68 board if you're not overclocking or you do not want SSD caching. H67 can get you SATAIII and USB 3 and mini H67s are much cheaper and there are more quality options.

Photoshop does like quadcores but an i3-2100 is fairly cheaper than the 2400, and if you can stomach the loss in performance it still can get the job done. See this Anandtech review. The price to performance ratio is about the same so really it's a matter of whether you want to spend the extra money.

If you live near a microcenter i3's are $99 in store and i5-2400 are $149.
 

You can do a lot better on a number of these parts. Newegg runs all sorts of sales, and you can pick off a number of your parts at a discount if you watch for the right time.

8GB memory is a good amount. There's some Kingston 1333 for sale right now for $39:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-021012-Index-_-DesktopMemory-_-20104173-L03B

There's a 2.5 500GB Hitachi disk for $59. The small size would be nice in that case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...21012-Index-_-LaptopHardDrives-_-22145447-L0A

You're specing $240 for a 120GB disk. The IBM disks are good, but you can get something that will work well for less:

Here's a 128GB Samsung for $183 (with code EMCNHJN24):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...21012-_-EMC-021012-Index-_-SSD-_-20147134-L0B

The Crucial that someone suggested also looks good, and the Corsair Force Series 3 that I put in my current system is working great:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233206

You could save a few bucks on the motherboard by going with the ASUS H61 model, though you give up 6Gb/s Sata:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131727

You could save about $40 on the Blu-ray drive by getting the LG model, though Newegg doesn't carry it:

http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=MqA1T5CvNoWdiQL6j82WCg&ved=0CGQQ8wIwAA

This 6770 video card would save you $100 and will definitely allow you to play all the current games, although not at the highest settings:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102940

That said, I have an EVGA 560 GTX, and it is a great card.

You didn't include your Windows license in the parts list. Win7 OEM is about $100.

For the processor, if you or a friend lives near a Microcenter, they sell all the Intel chips for a fair bit less than any other source. The I5 is very mighty right now, and you won't go wrong with any of those, so as someone suggested, the 2400 would be great. (Newegg is $189, MC is $149.)

I think these changes would get you down to around $1000 even including the Windows license.

Good luck!
 
8GB memory is a good amount. There's some Kingston 1333 for sale right now for $39:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-021012-Index-_-DesktopMemory-_-20104173-L03B
Do not go with this RAM OP: It's rated at 1.65V which means it has a higher chance of damaging the CPU. Go for RAM rated at 1.5V to avoid any potential CPU damage. And to back up my statement, straight from the Intel rep here on the forums:
Ok this is an issue that I have spent a lot of time on. I have even sent this up to an engineer to find out on this. The issue with this is the 1.65v memory is pushing the tolerances on the processor too much. Over on Tom's they did some testing on the memory to see where the point is and they found that anything above 1.575v can damage the processor. In most cases if you have 1.65v memory before you do anything else go into the Bios and set the memory at 1.5v to avoid this issue.

So aim for RAM rated at 1.5V. The RAM you originally selected is fine.

As for the rest of the parts:
- Ditch the Core i5 2500 as it's a poor choice for the money. If you're not overclocking, go with the Core i5 2400 for $190 instead. If you do want to OC, bump up the CPU to the Core i5 2500K.

- SSD wise, I recommend the Crucial M4 128GB SSD as well.

- HDD wise, if your friend doesn't need that much storage space nor if he's not planning on installing apps on the hard drive, go with the 500GB laptop drives that Igor99 recommended.

- Video card wise, the video card you chose is a tad overpriced considering that the faster GTX 560 TI is only $16 more after shipping:
$213 - Gigabyte GTX 560 TI 1GB PCI-E Video Card

Though if your friend doesn't mind gaming at medium to low settings, grab this HD 6850 instead:
[URLhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102908]$135[/URL] - Sapphire HD 6850 1GB PCI-E Video Card.
 
I have something similar to what you are building here. I have the asrock H67 board, which allows you to lock the cpu frq at the max turbo, but no overclocking.

I have the SG07, which has the 600w psu and a little more room to work. With this case, I have an H50 working great inside. I grabbed a BD burner (burns bd, dvd, cd, and does lightscribe) from ebay for about $65 about 6 months ago, new.

I would agree with many others- look for sale on something around the HD6870 area. I would not buy the GTX560 even if you think you need to go above a 6870, either get the 560Ti or a 6950 2GB card. You can probably get a 6870 for $150 with a free game, and a 6870 should be fine if you are just playing at 1080p.

I have a C300 128gb in mine, but the M4 is the newer model so you'll want to grab that. For ram, I just use 2x4gb 1600 ripjaws. I got mine for $30 AR.
 
Greetings!

Recently, my friend wanted me to spec a budget system (using Newegg) for his eight-year-old son, but decided not to pull the trigger right now.

No longer being a "computer guy," I had fun designing the system with the help of the [H]. It's been maybe a decade since I was interested in computers.

Anyway, I've about talked myself into a budget HTPC build. I have a large, new-ish LG HDTV. It's at home, and I can't recall the exact model or even size. Of course, it has HDMI ports. Hooked up to it, I have an Xbox 360 that I almost never play.

My friends and I play MW3 and Black Ops on it, but I'm far from a gamer. I play very few modern games and I only play them rarely, so there's no reason to throw me in with the console-gamer culture.

What I want is a small computer that looks like just another appliance -- glossy black with few lights and buttons and such. I want it to play DVD and Blu-ray disks so that it can replace my budget player.

I probably won't play many first-person shooters or other high-end games, but I may venture into the world of Skyrim or Dark Souls. Since I'm accustomed to console graphics, I won't need a system that can run games ultra-high settings at super-high resolutions.

But, I want it to still be a nice system in four or five years, so updatability is a bonus.

I'm absolutely sold on this Sugo Series SG05BB-450 case. It looks great -- though why the heck did they put a white fan in it?!

That all said, I filled out the questionnaire:

  • Gaming -- Some, but gaming won't be the main priority of this system. I will move to the new Xbox when it debuts.
  • Photoshop -- Both PS and Gimp, yes. Often, maybe. The ability to work with 4,000x4,000-pixel images will be needed.
  • Overclocking -- No. None.
  • Web browsing -- Often, yes.
  • HTPC/Playback -- Yes, and this will be important as I would like this to replace my existing Blu-ray and DVD player both.
  • What's your budget? -- About $999 for the box, not including software, speakers, cables, peripherals, etc.
  • Is cost a driving factor in component selection? -- No more than it is for any other wage slave.
  • Do you have any big computer chains nearby? -- Nope. I'd prefer this entire build to come from Newegg.
  • What exact parts do you need for that budget? -- If it's in the case, I need it. The box will use no existing parts. Case/PS, CPU, mobo, RAM, video card, sound card (?), SSD, HDD, Blu-ray reader, DVD reader/writer, etc.
  • What specific features do you need in a motherboard? -- The ability to support nearly all currently standard tech is required: RAID, Crossfire or SLI support, USB 3.0, SATA 6G, etc.
  • Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? -- Ouch. That's a tough one. If I had the measurements of the shelf space under my TV, I'd be able to provide exact maximum size specifications. I'll come back to this when I get a chance.
  • What resolution output do you need? -- My TV supports 1080p and Blu-ray looks awesome on it, so awesome that I'm completely spoiled by it. I dislike going to the movie theater now and am enraged when an older, but popular movie isn't made available in it!
  • Do you need multiple monitor output? -- I don't need it, but it would be nice.
  • How comfortable are you with custom case modification and electrical wiring? -- I'm not at all.
  • How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? -- It's probably not too important as the computer will be behind a glass door inside a cabinet.
  • How mobile does this system need to be? -- It doesn't need to be mobile.
  • Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? -- No. I'd like to move to Windows 8 when it debuts. Until then, I'll stick with Windows 7 64bit.
  • When do you plan on building/buying the PC? -- In no more than a couple months.

Here's what a little time at Newegg got me:


Whew! That comes to $1,245 without shipping and I've probably forgotten things. That's bit bit over budget... Chopping off $400 would make that an easier pill to swallow.

Not sure what solid-state drive I should get. The SSD market right now is just screwed up. The Cherryville drives sound great, but they are crazy expensive. I'd like to keep it under $250 for the SSD.

I didn't do much research on the RAM, either. I've never built a DDR3 system, and I don't know what today's players are putting out. Would there be a noticeable difference between 2x4GB and 2x8GB? What is the fast RAM timings now?

Thanks for reading and for all your build suggestions!

D
-Sharpe

Hey I would stay away from itx z68 motherboards I've personally used a h67 as rock it board and it was very good I've read nothing but complaints and Doa cases about z68 it boards. Just my 2 cents
 
Hi there

All all of the above have been great sugestions, but there is one aspect that no one seems to have taken into account

How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? -- It's probably not too important as the computer will be behind a glass door inside a cabinet

And this happens to be cruccial and not due to any noise implicacions but due to thermal problems a closed enclosure creates. Unless that cabinet has good ventilation you may have to opt for components with a lower tdp because I believe most of the suggested builds are likely to overheat in such an enviroment. please take this into consideration otherwise you could end up with a very expensive oven.
 
It's been about two weeks since I started this thread, but I still would like to build this system. There have been no real technology increases in any area. Ivy Bridge -- not to mention IB mini-ITX -- is still too far away to consider. The leaked IB benches do look great, though.

Everyone's replies have been read and strongly considered. I'm not going to go through and quote them all, though.

Many of you guys are saying to go H67 instead of Z68. It's not that I want Z68 instead of H67 -- honestly, I didn't know the difference until today -- it's that I would like SATA III and really, really want USB 3.0 (and both have that capability). The SATA III probably isn't that big of a deal, but the USB 3.0 will be important in a near enough future that I'm insisting on it.

I'm a really, really big fan of wireless, too. In fact, that's going to be a requirement.

So, I've read (post #6 from Intel rep) that the main differences between H67, P67, and Z68 are this:

  1. H67 – Integrated graphics are enabled while overclocking is disabled;
  2. P67 – Integrated graphics is disabled while overclocking is enabled;
  3. Z68 – Both integrated graphics and overclocking are enabled.

H61 seems to be the budget version of H67, missing native SATA III and USB 3.0. Also, it probably won't support Ivy Bridge. So, it's out.

I'm less and less against a Z68 w/2500K and bumping the ratio up just a tad 'till it hits 4.0.

However, I found an H67 board that I really liked with WiFi and a remote.

The ASRock H67M-ITX/HT LGA 1155 Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard comes with a remote -- which I think is really cool even though I have no idea what it is used for -- and a mini-PCI Express expansion slot with antenna. I guess a lot of boards come with a remote.

I really like the looks of that board's features, though I'd a lot rather have a Z68 for upgrades (and faster RAM). Any objections? Am I missing something better for less?

The H67 will probably keep me from wanting to go too far past my ~$1,000 "budget" with a 2500K and expensive air cooler.

It only seems to support DDR3 1333, but I don't know if that's really much of an issue because I'm not up on today's RAM. AnandTech doesn't seem to think there's much difference between high-end RAM and the native 1333.

Keeping in mind Danny's advice not to go above 1.5V, I sorted all of Newegg's 240-pin DDR3 by price and found the cheapest ($39.99) 1333 CL7 RAM with a name brand I recognized: Kingston 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model KVR1066D3N7K2/8G.


Took a little bit of time to actually read up on things and put together a more informed build:


Gross Sub-Total: $1,080

Not bad! Doesn't include coupons or shipping. Upgraded to a 560 Ti, but unfortunately, unless I get it in the next two days, I don't see getting a 560 Ti for that price... This was probably all academic as I'm going to leave for about three weeks here in a few days. XD

Am I missing anything? Any objections or recommendations for better parts? Is anything incomparable? Video card dimensions: 8.43" x 5.28".

Thanks!
 
However, I found an H67 board that I really liked with WiFi and a remote.

The ASRock H67M-ITX/HT LGA 1155 Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard comes with a remote -- which I think is really cool even though I have no idea what it is used for -- and a mini-PCI Express expansion slot with antenna. I guess a lot of boards come with a remote.

I really like the looks of that board's features, though I'd a lot rather have a Z68 for upgrades (and faster RAM). Any objections? Am I missing something better for less?
I have two objections:
1) It's an AsRock so its quality probably isn't that great. At the very most, mixed.
2) Only has a 1-2 year warranty.

If you honestly don't need a remote or integrated wifi, I recommend this better built and longer warrantied Intel mobo instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121507

It only seems to support DDR3 1333, but I don't know if that's really much of an issue because I'm not up on today's RAM. AnandTech doesn't seem to think there's much difference between high-end RAM and the native 1333.

Keeping in mind Danny's advice not to go above 1.5V, I sorted all of Newegg's 240-pin DDR3 by price and found the cheapest ($39.99) 1333 CL7 RAM with a name brand I recognized: Kingston 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model KVR1066D3N7K2/8G.
With the current Intel CPUs, speed nor timings matter that much. The bare minimum you need and will ever need is DDR3 1333 RAM rated at 1.5V. DDR3 1066 apparently is a tad too slow for the SB CPUs IIRC. I recommend this RAM:
$37 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

Right now that SSD isn't worth the money considering that this slightly slower SSD is $60 cheaper:
$150 - Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 2.5" 128GB SSD

Not a good choice unless really cash-strapped. Otherwise, I'd recommend this significantly faster drive instead:
$147 - Hitachi Desktar 7K1000.D HDS721010DLE630 1TB SATA 6.0Gb/s Hard Drive

This was probably all academic as I'm going to leave for about three weeks here in a few days. XD
Damn it. Why didn't I see this until after I made those recommendations? Well that was a waste.

In any case, IB is due to hit in April. Since you are going to be away for three weeks in a few weeks, I take it that your friend is gonna have to wait for you? If so, just have him wait a few more weeks since IB is due to hit the markets in April.
 
If you honestly don't need a remote or integrated wifi,

I do, though. Like I said buried in that huge post, it's a requirement. Once I saw that these boards can have the mini-slot, I must have one. Wireless is so much better for this thing. Not having to run a cable will be fantastic.

But, yeah, Intel probably makes better boards. From what I've read, like you say, ASR is real hit-or-miss.

I recommend this RAM:
$37 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

For $2 more, I might as well get the CL7 RAM. I mean, it's two dollars.

EDIT: Ohhh... I somehow linked to 1066 RAM instead of 1333. I see. Yeah, that looks like a great recommendation.


Right now that SSD isn't worth the money considering that this slightly slower SSD is $60 cheaper:

You're right. It's probably totally unjustified. There's little doubt that humans probably can't tell the difference in anything between them.


Not a good choice unless really cash-strapped. Otherwise, I'd recommend this significantly faster drive instead:

I noticed StorageReview really likes those. Currently, it's their top dog. The Tom's Hardware 2012 Hard Drive Charts shows it favorably.

What's scarey, though, is it has a 30% 1-egg rating. That's worse than any product that I've ever seen.


Damn it. Why didn't I see this until after I made those recommendations? Well that was a waste.
I'll still use this as reference. Nothing really changed in the last two weeks except the price of the Intel 520 by $30.

In any case, IB is due to hit in April. Since you are going to be away for three weeks in a few weeks, I take it that your friend is gonna have to wait for you? If so, just have him wait a few more weeks since IB is due to hit the markets in April.

Well, my friend isn't going to build his son a computer like I thought. But, I had fun putting together a budget computer for him, so I decided to do the same for myself, but make it a SFF.

Currently, I only have this laptop (17"/i72630QM/8GB/525M) and I need a good computer. I learned how cool it was to surf and stuff from the couch in front of a big screen. So, now I want that. XD

Didn't know April was the month. Thought it was later. IB will be a pretty significant improvement for SFF, I suppose.

We'll see.

Thanks!
 
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