18-Mile Crack Seen by NASA in Antarctic Glacier

PaperclipGod said:
This is like insisting that increased levels of CO2 have caused population growth, as the rise in CO2 correlates with the rise in population. When no one refutes this, you sit back smugly and say "see? SCIENCE!"

There's no scientific refutation for a ridiculous proposal. Just like there's no way to disprove the existence of god, even if the concept of a generous grandfather in the clouds is lolworthy.
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God this is a great "debate." Every claim you just made is wrong.

CO2 is not "correlated" with atmospheric temperature rise. WE KNOW CO2 ABSORBS INFRARED LIGHT EMITTED FROM THE GROUND. You can measure it in a lab with a gas sample.

As for "you can't disprove the existence of god," of course you can. People who claim god exists typically make specific claims about things their god did or how it interacts with us, and those can be tested and proved false. For example, the world is not 6000 years old, was not made in six days, there was no global flood, and prayer is completely ineffective.

Easiest logic ever: if A then B. Not B, therefore not A.
 
Yobbles said:
Anyone who thinks man is not having a great negative impact on the environment is as dumb as a bag of hammers. You refuse to watch the movie link I posted because you just don't want to know the truth so you can go on raping the earth for profit. Sickos.
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It's worse, because they're not even smart enough to be the ones raping for profit. They're the useless yes-men standing around holding the coats of the people doing the raping, hoping that maybe it'll be their turn one day. There's nothing sadder than that guy.
 
Section VIII said:
So we know without a shadow of a doubt what caused each and every climate change that occurred during the past millions of years and that humans are causing climate change now? It's not a cyclic change for sure? We know that Jesus died for us and will some day come back again to be among us without a shadow of a doubt? Moses parted the Red Sea without a doubt? Noah saved hundreds and thousands of animals on one big boat. And fed them all without them eating each other? Who scooped the poop? Oh, by the way, who wrote the bible? Humans--after we finally figured out how to write. Which, by the way before they figured out how to write, they had to share information verbally--which leads to all kinds of miscommunication issues from languages and dialects alone. Who says that we are causing climate change? Humans. And we all know how perfect and all-knowing we humans are. :rolleyes:
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man you are beyond saving.

this thread is about observing an unusually large crack in antarctica. global warming is about observing that CO2 traps infrared radiation and everything we do makes CO2. either you believe in things that can be observed, or you make things up
 
Kueller said:
We're going about changing the climate all wrong. Yes greenhouse gases may be the proximate cause of the warming trend over the last 100-150 years, it could also be that we were coming out of the volcanically induced Little Ice Age 1550-1850...Or far more likely, it's a combination of myriad factors.
The proximate cause(s) do not have to dictate our solution. When it rains we don't try to immediately evaporate all the water back into clouds and reverse the process...we build some drains to make life livable and let nature handle the rest. Asking 7 billion individuals in over a hundred sovereign nation-states to curtail their fossil fuel use is a similarly futile endeavor.
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your reasoning is wrong. if the only cause of global warming that we can do anything about is our CO2 production, then we have no choice but to deal with it. unless you think gambling with human civilization is a good idea.
 
Aluisious said:
God this is a great "debate." Every claim you just made is wrong.

CO2 is not "correlated" with atmospheric temperature rise. WE KNOW CO2 ABSORBS INFRARED LIGHT EMITTED FROM THE GROUND. You can measure it in a lab with a gas sample.

As for "you can't disprove the existence of god," of course you can. People who claim god exists typically make specific claims about things their god did or how it interacts with us, and those can be tested and proved false. For example, the world is not 6000 years old, was not made in six days, there was no global flood, and prayer is completely ineffective.

Easiest logic ever: if A then B. Not B, therefore not A.
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All of which means nothing when there's a million years worth of data showing cyclical increases of CO2, caused by... what? And they don't result in run-away global warming... why?

You're still trying to pass off correlations about CO2 and temperature as proof that humans are the great arbiter of climate change, when the last 4 billion years of this planet has seen hundreds of warming and cooling cycles without any human intervention.

Also: lol at you thinking you can disprove god.
 
PaperclipGod said:
All of which means nothing when there's a million years worth of data showing cyclical increases of CO2, caused by... what? And they don't result in run-away global warming... why?

You're still trying to pass off correlations about CO2 and temperature as proof that humans are the great arbiter of climate change, when the last 4 billion years of this planet has seen hundreds of warming and cooling cycles without any human intervention.

Also: lol at you thinking you can disprove god.
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You fail so hard at logic I won't bother unless I get paid.
 
It is doubtful that anything bad will happen if we kill every living being on the earth (outside of humans), deplete the ozone layer (everyone knows those Coloradans with skin cancer are poseurs), and spew a shitload of gasses up into the atmosphere. It is ludicrous to think that the massive amount of crap generated by ~7 billion humans would impact the environment in a negative way.
 
What I don't understand is why global warming, if it's happening, is supposed to be so much of a problem. I hate the cold and I for one would like a warmer climate.
 
Starcrossed said:
It is doubtful that anything bad will happen if we kill every living being on the earth (outside of humans), deplete the ozone layer (everyone knows those Coloradans with skin cancer are poseurs), and spew a shitload of gasses up into the atmosphere. It is ludicrous to think that the massive amount of crap generated by ~7 billion humans would impact the environment in a negative way.
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Agreed Starcrossed, anyone that worries about those types of unimportant things are just tree hugging hippies and should get a job. Preferably one profiting off of the destruction of our planet.

It's no like we dump our (some times poisonous) garbage into the oceans to the degree that if you compiled it all together it would than equal a small US state. Or rape the Earth for every valuable mineral/resource/element we can find and turn around and waste most of them even faster than it took to acquire it (at the best it's just stupid but at the worst it's destabilizing to the Earth). It's not like we have cluttered low Earth orbit with so much junk we had to start an organization to monitor and steer the space shuttles away from stuff like solid rocket motors to avoid having a space shuttle with its dead floating around up there too. It's not like we need to worry about our drinking water either, I mean the world is mostly water anyway (< 1% of the world's fresh water (~0.007% of all water on earth is accessible for direct human uses) so wasting time on it is silly. So to be honest I personally think BP should dump more oil into the ocean because the living organisms in the ocean need their fuel too!


http://listverse.com/2009/07/25/10-recently-extinct-animals/

Mankind has the honor of quite possibly being the most destructive force to ever hit mother nature. This list looks at some of the more recent, probably lesser known extinctions that humans have lent a helping hand to. Whether by over hunting or over population, driving a species to extinction is nothing to be proud of and it’s certainly not slowing down.
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Anthropogenic hazard is pure propaganda by that side over there (Get em boys!)!

At this point the world will/won't/is/not warming/cooling so lets keep on keeping on as is. Anyone even debating these types of topics should be shot on sight for promoting thinking and looking ahead which frankly is kind of like cheating everyone else out of things that don't do it themselves (Like watching the road you're driving on so you don't crash into a tree or kill yourself and/or others), it's pure insanity when you think about it. Damn tree hugging hippies!

Well I'm off to continue dumping toxic shit in my local lake and using more resources than needed, it's a race after all. First one to the (were) finish(ed) line wins!
 
blade52x said:
So you're comparing now, a time of technological greatness, to a time shortly after humans learned how to light a fire?
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Sure. It was to show that we don't know everything.

The the record, I believe that the climate is changing. I also believe that it is always changing and has changed many times over since the Earth has been around. What I don't believe, without a doubt, is that humans are causing it now.
 
Section VIII said:
Sure. It was to show that we don't know everything.

The the record, I believe that the climate is changing. I also believe that it is always changing and has changed many times over since the Earth has been around. What I don't believe, without a doubt, is that humans are causing it now.
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So you do accept that humans have the capability to (at some point) change their environmental conditions through negligence?



If so, I wish everyone thought this way...lol (since it's correct!)
 
bAMtan2 said:
man you are beyond saving.

this thread is about observing an unusually large crack in antarctica. global warming is about observing that CO2 traps infrared radiation and everything we do makes CO2. either you believe in things that can be observed, or you make things up
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Then I respect your opinion and hope you respect mine.

You're right, everything we do makes CO2...including breathing.
 
bAMtan2 said:
man you are beyond saving.

this thread is about observing an unusually large crack in antarctica. global warming is about observing that CO2 traps infrared radiation and everything we do makes CO2. either you believe in things that can be observed, or you make things up
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AnonymousUser said:
So you do accept that humans have the capability to (at some point) change their environmental conditions through negligence?



If so, I wish everyone thought this way...lol (since it's correct!)
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No. What I'm saying is that maybe the climate was already changing to begin with. Afterall, this can't be the first time a large crack in Antarctica has ever occurred before.
 
Section VIII said:
No. What I'm saying is that maybe the climate was already changing to begin with. Afterall, this can't be the first time a large crack in Antarctica has ever occurred before.
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Maybe? Well of course the climate was already changing. It's kind of how the planet formed to begin with. It's constantly changing on a large scale but the scale is so big most of the normal human heads can't grasp the idea. As for the large crack, possibly. Maybe it's happened over and over and over. That actually means nothing though since theoretically we could still be the cause of it this time if it's not cyclical this time and has had an outside source introduced (I'm not saying it is that though).

None of that means that humans aren't getting to the point where our actions can/do/will have an effect on the world, our only world at that. I think it's better to be safe than sorry but that's just me. The problem is mainly caused by humans, humans lying, and humans being stupid and/or uninformed. We've caught some scientists lying and we have plenty of normal people who are totally uninformed but continue to spread misinformation about things they don't know enough about. Lose - lose situation in that kind of circumstance. I'm honestly starting to come to the realization that human beings are not nearly as intelligent as they'd love to think themselves to be.

Let me try to explain something.

The climate on Mars changes observably enough without human interaction (see, the possibility for man made global warming is so wrong! Actually, no! It just means climate change is a normal process but it can still be interrupted/offset/fucked up). The climate on Mars mostly changes by our Sun (Yup, the same Sun that NORMALLY effects our climate here too) but I'm sure by other major reasons as well.

However, when we do go to Mars (yup, we will) and start adding fluorocarbons to the atmosphere, absorbing and trapping the sun’s rays, we'll start drastically changing the climate (warming it up) to be more inhabitable for retards, I mean humans.

My point: Man made global warming bitches!!! So if we can and will do it there on purpose than I'm astounded that people would assume we can't/don't/won't do it here on accident. I guess this is why democracies suck! lol (Hint: The majority of people suck)


All I'm trying to say is OF COURSE we can alter our planet in so many ways with enough effort and time. We just don't have enough ways right now to prove it and/or make everybody understand it. If it's cooling, great, theoretically we warm it up the same way we plan on warming up mars OR we could take the fastest route and blow up all the nukes on the planet and it would instantaneously warm right back up (not recommended). If it were warming we could stop everything (halt) and it'd cool off over time. Or... it's just fluctuating naturally, but, we still can and will alter it if we're not careful.

My point is this this: Get Over It! Climate change is like mood change, it happens! Warming or cooling, man made or natural, and/or BOTH! (Ding, ding, ding!!!)
 
PaperclipGod said:
All of which means nothing when there's a million years worth of data showing cyclical increases of CO2, caused by... what? And they don't result in run-away global warming... why?

You're still trying to pass off correlations about CO2 and temperature as proof that humans are the great arbiter of climate change, when the last 4 billion years of this planet has seen hundreds of warming and cooling cycles without any human intervention.

Also: lol at you thinking you can disprove god.
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Show us where in the geologic record that earths global average surface temperature has ever risen as sharply and abruptly as it has in the last ~130 years. Wait, you can't, because it's literally never happened before. There is no evidence of a point in the entire history of this planet where such a pronounced, rapid, and drastic change in global climate has occurred in such a miniscule amount of time. What we're seeing is unprecedented, so stop parroting the talking points about cyclical climate change. That tired argument is no great insight, and it come across as intentionally obtuse.
 
It amazes me sometimes when people argue global warming. The people that really disappoint me are the non-believers who won't even consider it, talking about cyclical trends and the temperatures on other planets as correlation that there's some kind of comparison. There's not. Does the earth have warming and cooling cycles? Yes, do they tend to take 50 years? No. Is the surface of the planet supposed to get hotter when the sun is in an inactive state (like it's been up the last decade up until recently)? No. Do we have any real clue as to the core functions or weather patterns on the other planets? No. The warning was when Larsen B disintegrated in 3-4 weeks in 2002. A 10,000 year old glacier the size of Rhode Island breaks up in the blink of an eye and people still doubt. Now we may not have a northern ice cap during the summer in a few years. What's worse? China is slowly updating their 2000 or so coal plants to get filters for Sulfur and other heavy materials. The reason that's bad is because the excess sulfur from those plants in the atmosphere is actually blocking sunlight and cooling the earth. Once that process gets cleaned up or overwhelmed, things get much, much worse. But we'll probably be killed by the oceans changing their pH first.. or a pending world war in Asia (whether it's Iran or China vs India... trust me, China's redirecting rivers out of southern asia, including India, Thailand, Laos, Myanmar. So it'll be a fight for life and resources between 4-5 billion people)
 
Trimlock said:
Holy auto correct:

I love it, we are dumb because we have a different view (than you) and don't believe in some dumb MOVIE. Yes sir, we are all dumb...
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You got it. You never even watched the movie so claiming it is dumb before you have seen it is, well, DUMB!
 
Slartibartfast said:
What do global warming deniers have to gain? I've never understood this.
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Wallet protection. All the "sky is falling" global warming types want to pillage everyone's wallets to save mother earth. How about we just implement population control instead? That would solve so many problems...but no one even talks about that, heaven forbid.
 
temujin987 said:
I am shocked by the sheer stupidity of people in this thread. These same people probably also know for a fact that no human was ever on the moon. stop your armchair science and leave research to actual scientists who know wtf they are talking about.

hurr durr we're actually about to have an ice age herp derp. retarded.
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"Think for yourself. Question Authority." - This is a famous quote that you absolutely fail at.

You trust your state governor and president that they are doing everything for you? Yes, yes you do. Because you obviously don't question any authority. Tool.
 
Monkey God said:
Wallet protection. All the "sky is falling" global warming types want to pillage everyone's wallets to save mother earth. How about we just implement population control instead? That would solve so many problems...but no one even talks about that, heaven forbid.
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This. It's one thing to recycle everything you can when you want to get rid of it, it's another thing to throw away your car for a horrible trade-in value for an expensive ass "Green car". Do you know how many cars last years upon years upon years? Any quality car will last 10+ years with little maintanance (assuming you take care of it like any car requires). Car companies see that and saw dollar signs in their eyes.
 
XacTactX said:
If man-made climate change is made up why would 97% of publishing environmental scientists think that climate change is not only occurring, but occurring because of mankind's actions? Why would the UN pass a framework for dozens of countries committing them all to climate change? Are you saying that these scientists and organizations are all in a conspiracy? To do what exactly?
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US wants money.
Scientists want money.

Have you not heard of the "Carbon Credits" plan? Huge money grab for government and thus government funded "science projects" if it ever gets implemented.

Plus, these "scientists" need something to "research" and "discover" in order to get their lovely tax payer susidized goverment grants.

It is not only a money grab, but also a power grab.

What happens when govenment imposes laws that limit the amount of carbon dioxide you can exhale as a person, and then charges for "carbon credits" after that? What about vehicles and animals. What about factories and their machines? What about heating and air conditioning?

How are they going to monitor it? They would have to hook up some sort of meter to everything and everyone.. either that or come up with some sort of off-the-wall figure and "charge accordingly"

This would lead to huge tax increases.. which is what governments want and think they need.
 
cyclone3d said:
US wants money.
Scientists want money.

Have you not heard of the "Carbon Credits" plan? Huge money grab for government and thus government funded "science projects" if it ever gets implemented.

Plus, these "scientists" need something to "research" and "discover" in order to get their lovely tax payer susidized goverment grants.

It is not only a money grab, but also a power grab.

What happens when govenment imposes laws that limit the amount of carbon dioxide you can exhale as a person, and then charges for "carbon credits" after that? What about vehicles and animals. What about factories and their machines? What about heating and air conditioning?

How are they going to monitor it? They would have to hook up some sort of meter to everything and everyone.. either that or come up with some sort of off-the-wall figure and "charge accordingly"

This would lead to huge tax increases.. which is what governments want and think they need.
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haha.. can't type today. "US wants money" was supposed to be "Govenment wants money".
 
Another thing. If this climate change stuff is so proven...why are we spending trillions of dollars on stupid pointless wars, when we could spending that money on tax incentives for residential and commercial solar, or egads, fusion research?

Ill tell you why...because there's still plenty of money to be made burning fossil fuels. The people who run this planet want to milk that cow till its dead, and then, and only then will we see *real* investment into long term energy solutions.

The people who run this planet dont give a fuck about the climate, and they will not cut into their profits to save the planet. So, as an individual, am I just supposed to bend over and take it for the good of everyone? To hell with that. Its just like the EU and the US debt crisis...the people who are in charge DONT CARE about the long term viability of our economy or our planet. As long as that remains true, nothing an individual does matters.
 
Hamish Campbell said:
Show us where in the geologic record that earths global average surface temperature has ever risen as sharply and abruptly as it has in the last ~130 years. Wait, you can't, because it's literally never happened before. There is no evidence of a point in the entire history of this planet where such a pronounced, rapid, and drastic change in global climate has occurred in such a miniscule amount of time. What we're seeing is unprecedented, so stop parroting the talking points about cyclical climate change. That tired argument is no great insight, and it come across as intentionally obtuse.
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So because we live in the present and can take infinitely accurate temperature readings, and we can't do the same for the last dozen glacial cycles, this is evidence that this latest warming is "UNPRECEDENTED!!"?

Even if we go by the awful temperature record-keeping and extrapolations from the period leading up to the maunder minimum, we see the temperature drop just as precipitously as its rising today.

The reason people keep "parroting" cyclical climate change is because its the best explnation for climate change thus far. It predicts CO2, it predicts warming, and its been doing so consistently for millions of years.
 
I don't know why you guys are arguing over global warming and all that. To be honest: that was my ex-girlfriend down there. I got laid when that pic was taken. I had just dropped her pants and they snapped that pic from space. Sorry, I didn't mean to get you all worked up. Yea, she needs a tan and needs to lose a few pounds, but she's really nice.
 
Evil Scooter said:
^^^ Glaciers come and go as do warm and cold spells long before man cam along. At least when you buy snake oil from a salesman you actually get the snake oil. The cult of global warming has been at it some time and has collected untold Billion$. What have we gotten in return?? No actual warming for well over a decade. :rolleyes:
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EXACTLY THIS!
The earth goes through a natural cycle of warming and cooling, and there's nothing man, as arrogant and self important as he is, can do about it.
 
I won't argue that there is climate change, but man as the primary driver of that seems far fetched given our lack of knowledge on other factors.

1. Variable energy output from the sun.
2. Possible variable energy output from our planets core.

Even IF everything the AGW scientists claim is true our current technology cannot do much about it. Throwing away our economy to have almost no impact on the problem would not fix anything. The best tech for power generation currently would be nuclear, and the same green people wan't nothing to do with that either.
 
mynamehere said:
EXACTLY THIS!
The earth goes through a natural cycle of warming and cooling, and there's nothing man, as arrogant and self important as he is, can do about it.
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We're still ruining the world no matter how you look at it. Of course the worlds climate goes through cyclical changes. Of course the government and science tried to profit off it it too, still, humans can have an impact on it and if you don't see it now (hopefully) you WILL someday!

If we could build the vessels to get us to Mars, we could start "man made global warming" the week we got there. The guy that invented the bloom box was the same guy working on the way to heat up Mars to make in inhabitable. So again, anyone saying we (humans) can't effect the Earth are just deluded. Is the government out of control trying to regulate every single thing, yes. Does it mean humans can do whatever they want on this planet with no dire consequences, no!
 
Aluisious said:
It's worse, because they're not even smart enough to be the ones raping for profit. They're the useless yes-men standing around holding the coats of the people doing the raping, hoping that maybe it'll be their turn one day. There's nothing sadder than that guy.
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...said the man typing on his technology.

You first asshat.
 
Phoenix333 said:
What I don't understand is why global warming, if it's happening, is supposed to be so much of a problem. I hate the cold and I for one would like a warmer climate.
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I assume your joking -- but -- just in case your not, global warming melts glaciers. Glaciers melting causes sea levels to rise. Sea levels rising causes worse and worse flooding every year. Flooding if all the glacier were completely melted -- then the eastern seaboard and western seaboard of the United States were the majority of the population lives would be underwater.

You'd basically need to rebuild the eastern states right over top of the middle of the country and then still find land capable of making food to feed said population. You'd also need to deal with the issue of people dieing for heat-stroke in bad health, overweight and/or who are over 60s(not that old, but old enough to die of heat-stroke if the temperature has significantly rised). That's a potential problem in that a lot of senior university professors/educators are over 50 and not in the greatest of shape. Imagine if we lost everyone smart, intelligent, capable of teaching university students, masters students and phd students all at once. Not the end of the world --but-- not a great thing either.
 
WBurchnall said:
I assume your joking -- but -- just in case your not, global warming melts glaciers. Glaciers melting causes sea levels to rise. Sea levels rising causes worse and worse flooding every year. Flooding if all the glacier were completely melted -- then the eastern seaboard and western seaboard of the United States were the majority of the population lives would be underwater.

You'd basically need to rebuild the eastern states right over top of the middle of the country and then still find land capable of making food to feed said population. You'd also need to deal with the issue of people dieing for heat-stroke in bad health, overweight and/or who are over 60s(not that old, but old enough to die of heat-stroke if the temperature has significantly rised). That's a potential problem in that a lot of senior university professors/educators are over 50 and not in the greatest of shape. Imagine if we lost everyone smart, intelligent, capable of teaching university students, masters students and phd students all at once. Not the end of the world --but-- not a great thing either.
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What kind of Jerry Bruckheimer movies are we watching?
 
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