Samsung SA850 on PLS - the first review has been published (preproduction unit)

However I try to look at the monitor im getting glow from both above and below. Mostly at the right side of the monitor.

I got some BLB just above the power button to the right.
If i press at the bezel the BLB either changes or disappears.

Looking at my dell 2209wa it also got glow. A bit more on the s27.

Have not decided yet if im gonna return it.

First one is a closeup maybe 50cm. Second is 1m+
Taken at 200iso, f2.8, 1/5th.
closeupln.jpg

distancei.jpg
 
Well, I bit the bullet on one of these this evening in the 27" flavor! Bought from Amazon so I could return if there are issues or I just plain don't like it with no hassle. I am coming from a Dell 2405fpw that has served me well for many years (bought it the day it came out for around $1100), but as of late everything white is now yellow and I would say I have about 50 dead (gray) pixels maybe more. I really didn't want to spend another $1000ish on a monitor, but I could not stand looking at a TN all day. Here is to hoping I don't get a lemon and I will report back once I get it!
 
videogamer323 said:
Well, I bit the bullet on one of these this evening in the 27" flavor! Bought from Amazon so I could return if there are issues or I just plain don't like it with no hassle. I am coming from a Dell 2405fpw that has served me well for many years (bought it the day it came out for around $1100), but as of late everything white is now yellow and I would say I have about 50 dead (gray) pixels maybe more. I really didn't want to spend another $1000ish on a monitor, but I could not stand looking at a TN all day. Here is to hoping I don't get a lemon and I will report back once I get it!
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If you get a good one then you will likely be astounded :)
 
Vega said:
What have been the major complaints in quality control from user to user? Back light bleed? Anything else?
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Yea, pretty much just BLB. I have read quite a few threads around the forums and that seems to be the only issue and only a very few that had dead pixel(s).
 
Vega said:
What have been the major complaints in quality control from user to user? Back light bleed? Anything else?
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The 24" quality control has been very consistently bad with back-light bleed on almost all of them.

The 27" has been less consistent and it's a bit more of a crap shoot. Out of my two 27" I had one with some BLB and one with basically none.
 
Vega said:
What have been the major complaints in quality control from user to user? Back light bleed? Anything else?
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-My first monitor had BLB and several pieces of dust stuck under the display.
-My second monitor had very slight BLB (not worth returning) but a big piece of dust under the display.
-Otherwise the monitor looked amazing

Both were returned.
 
Good thing I bought with Amazon for their return policy. My 27" came with multiple dirt particles between the LCD and the anti-glare coating. One is almost two pixels large and is very noticeable. Going back that is for sure!

I do much prefer the anti-glare coating versus LG sparkly matte IPS coating but I think overall I still prefer a full-on gloss panel for the "wet" look and pop.

I'll post my input lag numbers versus my FW900 CRT here shortly. It was immediately apparent to me that the monitor has some input lag, still thinking about if it's over my thresh-hold or not.
 
f3.5, 1/1500s with each display cloned. 850D @ 1920x1080/60Hz, FW900 @ 1920x1080/100Hz.

Typical input lag is around 33-50ms.

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The Flat Panels timer is wrong for many reasons.

Input lag is around 18ms just like every other recent display which features scaling
 
f3.5, 1/1500s with each display cloned. 850D no scaling (pixel perfect aspect ratio preserved, slight black bars on either side) @ 2304x1440/60Hz, FW900 @ 2304x1440/80Hz.

Typical input lag was much less steady, ranging from as low as 16ms up to as high as 67ms with the average of ~33ms .


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You can't use the Flat Panels Timer if you want remotely accurate lag numbers
 
NCX said:
The Flat Panels timer is wrong for many reasons.

Input lag is around 18ms just like every other recent display which features scaling
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What is so wrong about it? Would seem like a hard thing to screw up, just flashing numbers at a very fast pace. My results pretty much match up with review sites putting the 850D at 24-50ms. I've never seen a claim as low as 18ms average.

It is a very good looking display though!
 
http://smtt.thomasthiemann.com/grafik/ComparisonofDisplayLagMeasurementMethods.PNG

Need to use SMT v1 or 2. Both 10e and I have provided values in this thread using the SMT Tool. The FPHD Timer is even worse than using a stopwatch on your computer since it is browser based. I can't remember the exact reasons (I beleive ToastyX has explained why many times on [H]) but basically the FPHD throws out randomly high values

Here is my album
http://s1093.photobucket.com/albums/i432/240hzTeslaStorm/Samsung S27A850D/input lag with SMT1/

NCX said:
I tested the input lag using SMTT1 agaisnt my delay free (subjective+SMT vs CRT) Asus VG236H and got 18-30ms with a popular value of 24ms....since SMT 1.0 is off by a few ms the real value should be around 18-20ms (I think 10e mentioned this before), which seems to be the normal amount for displays with scaling
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Ah, I am a bit leery of LCD vs LCD results. I've just bough the SMTT v2 program for $7 and I will give it a go.

I did read that the stop watch program could have problem with flash and give errant readings. But wouldn't the errant readings apply to both clone displays nullifying their negative effect? I guess it is a moot point as hopefully I get the SMTT program license soon.
 
It's more down to the random nature of screen refresh frequencies and factors relating to the tool itself. An article here and here about it :)
 
Drags said:
It's more down to the random nature of screen refresh frequencies and factors relating to the tool itself. An article here and here about it :)
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Ya, I've read those articles. They are pretty neat. My STTM tool v2 test results (3300 FPS):

Computer is running at a very low latency timer resolution of 24 µs, 850D is at 2560x1440 60Hz native, FW900 is at 2304x1440 @ 80Hz.

Camera f3.5-1/1500s.

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Only posting one image as the numbers are virtually always the same. Lowest input lag recorded is 15ms, highest is 29ms. Put's it firmly in the 1-2 frame of input lag. I'd agree with Prad.de that is "good" for gaming, less than 1 frame being "great" and 3 or more frames not good for gaming.
 
that doesnt look like SMTT 2.0 from the pics? from each photo taken there should also only be one number fro each display used to compare the lag, and it depends on the refresh of the image on both. have you got a photo of the two screens taken with SMTT 2?
 
Drags said:
that doesnt look like SMTT 2.0 from the pics? from each photo taken there should also only be one number fro each display used to compare the lag, and it depends on the refresh of the image on both. have you got a photo of the two screens taken with SMTT 2?
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Sorry I do not get what you mean. That is SMTT 2.0.
 
ok, it just looks different then, you've changed the font colour and size have you? it's normally yellow text on a blue background and there would normally be 3 columns of numbers visible on each screen and there should be about 16 rows or so if possible. that way you can properly tell what the newest value is on the CRT (the number just above the refresh dark line) and the newest value is on the TFT (basically the latest number which is still visible. the difference between those two is the input lag / display lag and there's no correlation between where the numbers are on each screen or anything as your red joining lines would suggest. just trying to help :)
 
Ya color is changed to be able to read it better. Changed font size to 8 separate lines, so they all match up (8 lines on either screen). I liked this picture because the scan lines are relatively in the same spot. I think we can all agree that the input lag is 1-2 frames, which is decent. Not great, not horrible but right in the middle. Shouldn't effect regular game players.

What I will do is try to capture some of the motion blur though, and I will do that in a separate thread.
 
Is the AG noticeable at all? I really hate AG so I'd like if it were non-noticeable in this, planning to gamble on this.. only choice I have I guess
 
The AG is much better than the stuff LG puts on their screens. It is more of a semi-gloss versus straight up matte. No sparkle and much better clarity. Although I prefer full-gloss myself.
 
Finally got my SA850 27" beast to replace my 2405fpw that I have had forever (bought the day it was released). All I can say is holy freaking crap! The amount of color that this monitor is putting out compared to my old Dell is just astounding... Also the text clarity compared to the Dell is hands down a major improvement. I was a bit worried because at times I have a bit of trouble reading text on the Dell, which I thought was the text size, but I guess it had to do with the crappy AG coating.

I bought mine from Amazon and it has 1 stuck read pixel up in the top right. Overall I don't think I should send it back for that because my back light seems 100% even. I thing I have noticed the most going from the 2405fpw is the "ips glow" effect (since pls is close to ips I am guessing this is normal). On this 27" screen the bottom corners end up glowing a bit on really dark content, but I can deal with that. This isn't back light bleed is it? I don't think it is because if I move my monitor higher the "glow" shifts to the top of the screen and totally disappears at the bottom?

Again I hate spending $850 on another monitor (Dell was $1080 when it came out), but this is a monitor I hope to have and enjoy for the next 7-8 years at least. When you think of it that way it works out to about $120 a year.
 
I noticed the same thing switching from a u3011 to the samsung pls. Text is hands down far better, and colors are the same or better on the samsung. This is all attributable to the horrible AG on the u3011.
 
videogamer323 said:
Finally got my SA850 27" beast to replace my 2405fpw that I have had forever (bought the day it was released). All I can say is holy freaking crap! The amount of color that this monitor is putting out compared to my old Dell is just astounding... Also the text clarity compared to the Dell is hands down a major improvement. I was a bit worried because at times I have a bit of trouble reading text on the Dell, which I thought was the text size, but I guess it had to do with the crappy AG coating.

I bought mine from Amazon and it has 1 stuck read pixel up in the top right. Overall I don't think I should send it back for that because my back light seems 100% even. I thing I have noticed the most going from the 2405fpw is the "ips glow" effect (since pls is close to ips I am guessing this is normal). On this 27" screen the bottom corners end up glowing a bit on really dark content, but I can deal with that. This isn't back light bleed is it? I don't think it is because if I move my monitor higher the "glow" shifts to the top of the screen and totally disappears at the bottom?

Again I hate spending $850 on another monitor (Dell was $1080 when it came out), but this is a monitor I hope to have and enjoy for the next 7-8 years at least. When you think of it that way it works out to about $120 a year.
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Do you have any dust stuck in your panel? I had two monitors from Amazon which both had dust. Otherwise I loved the displays.
 
videogamer323 said:
I don't think so. What does the dust look like anyway, just kind of gray smudges/dots?
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It looks sort of like a dead pixel. I had one display with three of them near the center and another with one large one near the center.
 
Could somebody post a comment on LED flicker on SA850, and possibly do a test Mr.Pixel was proposing?
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037650431&postcount=201

I'm using a Dell u2412 for web design and lots of text and the flicker at 30% brightness is very distracting. From what I read, the LEDs on SA850 have 180Hz freq - for comparison, Prad.de states that zr2440 has 430Hz here and also states that duty cycle is at 43% at brightness value of 140cd/m2

Prad.de zr2440 review, page 9 (in german) - changed some minor google translate mistakes:
The LED-backlight HP ZR2440w is PWM controlled. Brightness settings below 100 percent are achieved by dimming the LEDs briefly. At 140 cd / m² in the workplace, we measured a high switching frequency of 430 Hz due to the high maximum brightness to be governed strongly, the duty cycle is only 43 percent. Even very sensitive people should at this high frequency but can perceive no backlight flickering.
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nahero said:
Could somebody post a comment on LED flicker on SA850, and possibly do a test Mr.Pixel was proposing?
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037650431&postcount=201
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I second the motion. :)

nahero said:
I'm using a Dell u2412 for web design and lots of text and the flicker at 30% brightness is very distracting.
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Saw one of these in person, and when used below about 50% brightness there is 60Hz flicker. The backlight is running at 360Hz (still far too low IMO), but every 6th cycle is much brighter.
 
Little something to get things going: here are the photos of my Dell u2412, practically did exactly as proposed by that method. No photo editing, only cropped and put side by side.

Dell%20u2412%20flicker%20test.jpg


Here are full size photos:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2564500/Pics/100.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2564500/Pics/70.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2564500/Pics/35.JPG

And the original picture used for the test - just a 2px white line on a black background:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2564500/Pics/flicker_test.jpg

I will post photos of my Samsung 970p with CCFL backlight as soon as I hook it up.

EDIT: named the photo wrong, the last one is 35, not 50.
 
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nahero: So is that last shot at 35 or 50 brightness? label says 35, image name says 50. You're talking about the U2412M and not the U2412HM correct? I clearly get 360Hz, and yours looks like 450Hz.

Here's what I got (U2412M):
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1/25s exposure, default contrast (I think, not my monitor)

This may be better in another thread if you want to discuss it more.
 
@Mr.Pixel, it's 35, I named it wrong. I put these here because I'd like to see a comparison with SA850, and preferrably 24". And I didn't know there's a different u2412 model? Mine says u2412M, not HM. Is there a difference?
 
@nahero: Sorry, was thinking of the 23" version. Strange we got different frequencies though.
 
Straying off topic here, but could be my camera, it's pretty old and laggy. Or if you're on 110V mains?
 
Can some post a comparison screen photo of the 24SA850 vs U2412?

I an especially interested in the grain/dirty effect due to AG in the condition of a white page with black text (90% of the web).

I have a U2412 A02, a U2711 (The last revision) and a U2311. AG are terrible if the application (Netbeans, Office, etc.) themes are not inverted (black background): after 30 minutes, my eyes are tired, start flow and I need to rest. With an old U1905, I can work hours without a problem.

I cannot find a shop demonstrating the SA850. :(

Thanks a lot.
 
I have now the 850D and Apple 27" cinema display compared here. I'd expect the fast scrolling text of the 5ms PLS to be better than the 12ms IPS but the IPS is just as easy to read at a maximum speed of 10 in Pixperan. Surprisingly BOTH have easier to read scrolling text versus the Samsung 2ms TN 120Hz panels. Just goes to show you quotes pixel response times are worthless. Although fast moving textures are clearer in motion on the 120Hz.

The 850D has a much better anti-glare coating versus traditional LG IPS panels. Although, I am a glossy convert and I like the Apple's wet-gloss image more. Apple went full-bore gloss on their panels and it is more reflective then the glossy Samsung panels. Overall, I think Samsung found the best glossy screen overlay out of them all with their "ultra-clear" design.

The 850D is going back though as there are multiple dirt-specs under the AG coating. Samsung needs to clean up their quality control on their PLS series. I've had five of Samsungs 120Hz panels and they all are flawless.

The Apple is also defect free and produces a bright and amazing "wet-look' glossy image. Input lag on the Apple should be slightly lower than the 850D. I will test that out against my FW900 shortly.
 
Vega said:
The 850D is going back though as there are multiple dirt-specs under the AG coating. Samsung needs to clean up their quality control on their PLS series. I've had five of Samsungs 120Hz panels and they all are flawless.
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Arg! They really need to fix this dirt problem. Same thing in two of mine which I sent back. Hopefully they get the message. The display is otherwise awesome.

Not too interested in the 970 as it won't rotate :(
 
Just double checked mine and I have no dust. Zero back light bleed and 1 stuck red pixel in the top left (about 1 1/2 inch from the top and 1/2 inch from the left side). I am pretty sure I am going to stick with this one as I don't feel like playing with the lottery since the chance to get a much worse one seems so high, considering only 1 dead pixel...

I hope you guys can get a good one soon! I really do like this monitor. In the long run I would prefer the glossy ACD (even as anti Apple as I am), but cost and no vesa were both deal breakers for me. I think this is honestly the next best thing currently.
 
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