LCD Televisions with 4:4:4 Subsampling and low Input Lag.

An iSymphony LC32iF90 it is then. Can't wait to hear the results, crossing my fingers for you too. Conn's having reputable return/exchange/price protection and even repair policies would have convinced me as well.

This is going to be fairly lengthy so make sure you have used the restroom and have a drink handy.


I was able to pick up the iSymphony LC32iF90 tonight. The screen is nine kinds of glossy. It looks like black paint on a vehicle with >9k clear coats. That however goes away when I turned off the floresecent lighting in the room. With all the room lighting off, it no longer looks like a mirror so HOORAY for that. It however is trying to burn my eyes out of their sockets on it's default settings.

They only part ID I could pull off of it by looking in the vents was for the mainboard. The label reads as follows:

222-101221019
TV-222-1012210193-CMO32V15
H1L02 01/07/11

Going by that it's a different mainboard and panel that what was shown at shopjimmy. This is a little disappointing but, not shocking as products deviate during manufacturing all the time. Unfortunately, shopjimmy nor Google has any data at all on anything from my mainboard label.

The 4:4:4 testing will have to wait a few days. Apparently everyone tries to cram as much as they can into the smallest space now and make their stand connection bulbous as well as parts of the frame. This has resulted in me being unable to use my trusty DVI to HDMI adapter I have been using since 2006. I can't run a straight HDMI cable as my 9500GT doesn't have that option.

The Panel:

There is a fairly "substantial light bleed in the top right corner, a "noticeable" light bleed in the lower right and upper left corners, and a "semi-noticeable light bleed in the lower left corner when a solid black background is present and when the letterbox bars are present. It's pretty irritating and, it's there with a VGA, Component, and HDMI signal.

There is also a very noticeable viewing angle shift that affects the entire colour gamut. Black is by far the most affected by this as it turns to gray very rapidly. Essentially, the image "washes" out (turns pale). Everything is always darker in the location your eyes are fixated on. It almost looks like a "reflection" but, it's not as the shift occurs in areas that your body isn't. There are times when I would swear this is a TN panel because of how quickly the viewing angle shifts. However, the display never transitions into a photo negative. Regardless it's either a cheap panel or, the electronics are garbage.

The Menu:

This is pretty barebones. You can not even adjust the hue (white balance) at all. While this may look like the Westinghouse LD-xxxx menu, it's an incredibly stripped down version of it. Your only choices for the aspect ratio are "wide" (16:9) and "regular" (4:3). BTW, the TV is incredibly slow to respond to the remote control. Switching sources is also incredibly slow and you are greeted with a blinding full contrast/full brightness" white/almost a pale pink/lavender "loading screen" that is incredibly painful. The TV then acts confused about your picture settings and it will "adjust" itself no less than three times. It obviously has some dynamic contrast/backlighting crap that can not be disabled.


VGA signal:

I will say that the VGA hookup has me rather irritated as the HD/SD resolutions in the Nvidia control panel for it are all overscanned and there is no way to alter that via the TV's menu. For whatever reason, the native resolution with a VGA connection is 1360x768 which is a tad fuzzy/blurred sitting at your typical monitor from face distance. That starts to fade away when I change it to a higher resolution and, it's gone once I reach the 1080p 1920x1080 resolution. I have a hunch that the EDID override may fix that but, I don't want to do a bunch of alterations right now. The Nvidia contol panel is reporting the TV as a Mitac LCD Monitor. Phoenix shows the hardware ID as a MCT03D7.

Based on this I am guessing that it's a Mitac LCD panel which there is no data on anywhere. That being said there is a thread over at AVS UK from 2006 about an actual Mitac 32" TV that used a CMO panel. Given that CMO does appear on my mainboard label, I could be mistaken. I just really don't know how to go about breaking down this stuff short of ripping the case apart to see the other ID tags.


Anyway, I'm super disappointed that there is no way to trigger a 1:1 aspect ratio in the TV's menu on a VGA signal. The only choices are "wide" and "regular" where "wide" is 16:9 and "regular" is 4:3. Granted, I am never going to use the VGA signal but it has really fostered some doubts about this set. In the video settings, Colour, Tint, Sharpness, and Noise Reduction are all grayed out on the VGA signal. In the audio Digital Output and Audio Language are greyed out on the VGA signal. The VGA settings allows you to adjust the H-Position, V-Position, Clock, and Phase. It also has an Auto option. Sadly, the auto option doesn't correct the overscan.


Component signal: (redacted)

I hooked my DVD player up to this as that's how I had it on my Orion/Toshiba 34HR85. Wanting to stab my eyes out doesn't even cover my disdain when viewing Transformers III. It was flickering/stuttering, blurry, pixelated, and a host of other synonyms to the word SUCK. It looked like a poorly encoded download. To be fair it is a Michael Bay film so one has to expect the camera to actually not be focused on anything going on. However, that never really stood out on the Orion/Toshiba 34HR85. Granted, that is a 1080i set that "upconverts" (which as we all know can't happen because you can not create physical data out of thin air) and this is a 1080p set. I didn't even bother hooking the other DVD player up on this connection.

There is no way to adjust for a 1:1 aspect ratio. You can only select "wide" and "regular".


HDMI signal: (redacted)

Transformers III via a different DVD player via HDMI that upconverts still looked pretty crappy but, after messing with the settings and turning the sharpness all the way up (I shit you not), the only times when the image was crappy was when the camera clearly wasn't focused on anything or a badly rendered CGI shot (where you aren't supposed to notice). I can honestly write this off as bad film making combined with playing back a 480i disc on a 1080p set. I don't have a Blu-ray player to hookup as I have never bothered making the conversion.

There is no way to adjust for a 1:1 aspect ratio. You can only select "wide" and "regular".



Thoughts as of right now: (redacted)

I seriously doubt that I will be keeping this set. Given the issues so far, I don't even think it's worth the effort to get a smaller DVI to HDMI adapter or a an actual DVI to HDMI cable. While it would be interesting to know if it can do 4:4:4, it's really not suitable as an actual television which is one of the primary functions it needs to accomplish. The flaws I discussed in the panel section has me hesitant to even suggest it as a monitor.

BTW at some point during typing this, switching sources, playing DVDs, switching back to VGA to write more of this etc., the VGA signal has magically stopped overscanning on the 1080p 1920x1080 resolution. I have no idea what "triggered" the change but I'm just glad something did. Actually I take that back. It's now overscanning again so that was apparently a fluke.


Right now, I am incredibly disappointed in this set and, I seriously doubt that is going to change. The lack of a 1:1 ratio option and, being unable to disable certain filters are dealbreakers. I had high hopes for this set but, those have been crushed rather quickly.

*sigh*
 
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Ok, time to eat a metric ton of "crow" due to "insert foot in mouth" lol. The following post is about the use of this set as an actual TV. All of the content watched was in the form of SD (480) DVDs on a Pioneer DV-250 via a Component hookup. Why do I still use this you ask? It's because it still works, it has always been a solid DVD player, and it was released before any of this "up-conversion/filtering" nonsense was around. I also haven't made the move to Blu-ray partly because the Orion/Toshiba 34HR85 hates 1080 content and has an incredibly annoying banding issue as a result. That brings us to me having inserted my foot in my mouth and needing to eat "crow".


I'm going to have to retract my statements about the iSymphony having a bad picture. What I didn't take into account during a moment of extreme agitation was "distance". Once I stepped back, and I mean literally/physically stepping back, the picture actually became glorious. I want to take a moment and stress that I don't mean glorious for the price point. It is incredibly nice looking even on a rough tune. I would have never thought a 32" LCD that sits farther back than a 34" CRT would need to be viewed from a greater distance.

Colours:

This set has colours for days. I actually had to turn it down to a 9 from 50 (the default) out of 100 to strip enough colour out of it for the "muted/desaturated" and "cinematic look" I like my sets to have. For those that don't care for that look, you can over-saturate it to your heart's content. This actually shocked me as the Orion/Toshiba 34HR85 took a lot of work in it's Service Menu to achieve proper colours. Saturation levels however do not equate to proper colour balance and there is no way to adjust them outside of "cool", "normal", and "warm". I'm not saying they aren't balanced, I'm just saying I haven't delved into that area yet and there is very little room for adjustment. The "cool" setting is absurdly blue though and thus in my opinion is absolutely useless.


Blacks:

This is a mixed bag but, I'm sure everyone expected that as most sets are. Again, I prefer a "muted/desaturated" and "cinematic look" so, my blacks tend to wander into the gray area a bit. That having been said, this set can get pretty black but, it comes at the expense of "black crush". At least it did when I was playing around with it. I will attempt a "normal human" tune on it to see if I can't resolve that issue a bit.

This set makes some older content look incredibly dated. To be fair, my tunes make even newer content look fake as hell but that's a compromise I make. However, I have never seen the scene in "The Lord of the Rings (The Fellowship of the Ring) where the Nazgûl (Ring Wraiths) are riding out of Minas Morgul (The Dead City) after Gollum screams out "Shire, Baggins" look so bad. There is a black outline around all of the Nazgûl from where they were digitally pasted in. The only way to fix that was to lower the brightness which caused an incredible/unacceptable amount of "black crush".

"Peter Jackson's King Kong" looks less dated than it does on the Orion/Toshiba 34HR85 but, there is a back outline around Ann Darrow at times during the Empire State Building scene. I can also see a little bit to much of the detail in Kong's mouth when he is in chains in the theater scene. This is most likely a result of my tune when it comes to Kong's mouth as I have the blacks a little bit to gray.

Again though, I am obviously still getting a feel for this set so I will play around with how I typically want a set to look and how most other people would and see if I can't resolve the issue somewhat. I also want to point out that you can strip damn near all of the brightness out of the picture to the extent of not being able to see anything. There is a very wide range of adjustment in both the contrast and the brightness on this set. I currently have the contrast at 0 out of 100 and I honestly wish I could bleed a bit more of it out but, the range is probably more than enough for most viewers.


Sharpness:

This is also a bit of a mixed bag. Transformers III is incredibly detailed and it shows. However, some of the buildings in it it cause a bit of a "flicker". I don't think that's quite the right word for it but, there is a noticeable effect. The buildings in "The Dark Knight" made me cringe at times. There is a lot of jagged lines on them that never stood out before. This could be an issue of a poor transfer from film to disc, the sharpness settings not being right for the viewing distance, this set exposing flaws the Orion/Toshiba 34HR85 couldn't, or any combination of the above.


Light bleed:

This is still pretty irritating and obvious even if you wash out the blacks into grays with a high brightness setting. I have also noticed some mild "clouding" when the scene is completely dark. I've ruled out it being a disc as it's there and identical on three different movies so I can't see it being some form or digital artifact.


Viewing Angle:

The shift is still there but honestly, it's like I'm going to be moving all about except when I'm using this as a monitor. I can handle the "wash out" but, the screen being darker in the center of what is directly in front of my eyes is "distracting". I want to point out this isn't just in the center of the screen so it's not an issue of the light not reaching all areas of the screen. This shift in darkness happens in every possible location on the screen including where the light bleed is in the corners. It's almost like I'm casting a shadow on the screen but that's impossible given there is no light behind me and, the light from the TV is casting shadows in the rest of the room. It's also not a reflection so, it has something to do with the actual image on the panel.


Other thoughts:

The menu is still very limited and, your only options for aspect ratio are "wide" (16:9) and "normal" (4:3). There is no excuse for a TV to not offer a 1:1 option an all of it's inputs. I detest overscan and I can't really tell if it's happening on the Component and HDMI connections or not. My 9500GT has an s-video output on it and I have an s-video to Component adapter so I will see if it's overscanning on Component latter today. The HDMI tests will have to wait until I can snag a cable.

The VGA is still over-scanning but I'm fairly certain this is a result of a really poorly constructed EDID. MonInfo thinks this is a 26" panel which would explain the native resolution of 1360x768. I'm highly tempted to try and override this somehow as there is no reason the VGA shouldn't natively be 1920x1080.


Right now I have far less buyer's remorse than I did but, there are still some glaring flaws that are not going to be able to be resolved.
 
As a tv a vr3225 is marginal, I can see why they lock up the qam tuner behind codes.
It frankly stinks.
going from channel to channel it takes what seems like a couple seconds for it to start displaying content.
out of the box the qam colors were way off.
Adjust them for qam and none digital channels look very bad.
What is weird is this tv is a better monitor than tv.
I am still happy because it will mainly be used as a monitor.
If you will use it mainly as a tv look at a more expensive set.
 
a local best buy has an open-box VR-3225 for $229 if i remember correctly (noticed it in a passing glance). trying to decide if i want to give it a whirl as a monitor. i have $100 in BB gift cards i'm trying to figure out how to use. i'm really happy with my ASUS VE276Q monitor, it's more of a "what the hell should i use these gift cards on?" sort of thing.
 
They only part ID I could pull off of it by looking in the vents was for the mainboard. The label reads as follows:

222-101221019
TV-222-1012210193-CMO32V15 H1L02 01/07/11

Going by that it's a different mainboard and panel that what was shown at shopjimmy. This is a little disappointing but, not shocking as products deviate during manufacturing all the time. Unfortunately, shopjimmy nor Google has any data at all on anything from my mainboard label.
Racer i bet that is the same panel you initially thought it was in your previous post, the numbers are very close and not being able it find it on google is a sign that a digit is missing. Are you sure you didn't miss a digit when peering into the vent ?

As for VGA resolution, it is all too common for TV's to only accept 1360x768 or 1366x768 over VGA, i suspect the iSymphony is no different. I wouldn't try to force it with special software like powerstrip, tweaking the video driver may be fine though. The funny jagged line effect on plaid patterns (buildings etc) may be due to VGA/analog moire.

As for glossy panels, dark rooms and sore eyes, consider getting an expensive bias light to place directly behind your TV.

Another thing, i wouldn't pass final judgement just yet, your setup definitely needs a DVI to HDMI cable, and perhaps another tweak or two. You mentioned a DVI adapter not fitting, but wouldn't that adapter connect directly to your video card and not your TV? It sounds as if you have a reversed adapter where the DVI is female and the hdmi is male, as opposed to a conventional adapter bundled with most video cards. I would double check your adapter, just in case.

As for viewing angles, i'm not sure, but it's "characteristics" may change slightly with a DVI signal but not a whole lot. Light bleed is often caused by the panel being squeezed within it's frame or against it's backlight. Bleed can *mellow out* a little bit as the panel settles down from gravity. Or you can force it's hand by picking the TV up, giving it a few gentle shakes, then turn upside down and on it's sides and repeat the gentle shaking, sounds dumb i know, but not so dumb when you realize it may be pressure causing the backlight anomolies in your case.

Hopefully things smooth out where you don't feel compelled to return/exchange but i wouldn't settle with a mediocre TV either. Let us know how it works out or if you need help with the DVI setup.


a local best buy has an open-box VR-3225 for $229 if i remember correctly (noticed it in a passing glance). trying to decide if i want to give it a whirl as a monitor. i have $100 in BB gift cards i'm trying to figure out how to use. i'm really happy with my ASUS VE276Q monitor, it's more of a "what the hell should i use these gift cards on?" sort of thing.
Check their return policy beforehand on open-box just to be safe, especially because you already have a jumbo 27" that you're happy with. I would set it back 1ft further than your Asus because that extra 5 inches really makes a difference, that's if you decide to buy it.

And if you've never used a TV as a monitor before, then remember to re-read post #2 before making your decision ;)
 
Check their return policy beforehand on open-box just to be safe, especially because you already have a jumbo 27" that you're happy with. I would set it back 1ft further than your Asus because that extra 5 inches really makes a difference, that's if you decide to buy it.

And if you've never used a TV as a monitor before, then remember to re-read post #2 before making your decision ;)

appreciate the advice. i passed, BB was charging $299 for it. i was teetering when i thought it was $229.
 
As a tv a vr3225 is marginal, I can see why they lock up the qam tuner behind codes.

That is one thing I forgot to mention about the iSymphony LC32iF90. You don't have to go through that nonsense. I haven't had a chance to hook it up to an antenna or the satellite just yet so I am unsure of how TV channels will look. I'll get around to this tomorrow.


Racer i bet that is the same panel you initially thought it was in your previous post, the numbers are very close and not being able it find it on google is a sign that a digit is missing. Are you sure you didn't miss a digit when peering into the vent ?

I honestly wondered about it being the same panel or not at first and if the panel number was broken up, miss-arranged, missing something, etc. I knew it didn't look right even if I was positive I didn't miss a digit though as I looked at it several times. However somehow I did manage to miss one. The correct number is:

CMO32V315 H1L02

Looks like it's the same panel after all so there's one "problem" solved.


As for VGA resolution, it is all too common for TV's to only accept 1360x768 or 1366x768 over VGA, i suspect the iSymphony is no different. I wouldn't try to force it with special software like powerstrip, tweaking the video driver may be fine though.

Yea, I was only going to look at trying to do it via the EDID. Powerstrip never entered my mind. Messing with the Nvidia driver doesn't seem like it would be fruitful either unless there is a way to alter the native resolution for a VGA signal in it. I've never had to do anything other than EDID alteration though as I've never found myself in this position before.


The funny jagged line effect on plaid patterns (buildings etc) may be due to VGA/analog moire.

This issue was actually over the Component to Component hookup from the Pioneer DV-250 to the iSymphony LC32iF90. To be fair, the "plaid effect" was there to some extent on the Orion/Toshiba 34HR85. By "plaid effect" I mean there is almost a "flicker" to it that is almost like "pixel walk" to some extent but, it only occurs where ta bright plaid pattern is. (e.g. The brightly coloured buildings in the scene from "The Dark Knight" where Lucius Fox's helicopter is flying over Hong Kong on it's way to Lau's building. I don't recall the jagged lines being on the Orion/Toshiba 34HR65 though.

These issues are still present on the VGA signal using MPC HCE (Media Player Classic Home Cinema Edition) but, they are more subtle. That leads to believe the the DVD shares some of the blame along with possibly some sort of processing in the TV itself.


As for glossy panels, dark rooms and sore eyes, consider getting an expensive bias light to place directly behind your TV.

My eyes were sore because of the insane amount of contrast and brightness the TV had at it's default settings. I still need to work through the LCD test patterns though as the gamma isn't correct at the current TV settings. I haven't messed with any of this on the VGA signal because there is absolutely no way to adjust sharpness when using a VGA signal outside of a video player. The black levels are weird because of the screen being darker directly in front of your eyes. It's almost like a reverse effect of what a TN panel does as you change your viewing angle lower. Going by page 26 in the PDF I posted further I up, I believe this is might be "Cross Talk".


It sounds as if you have a reversed adapter where the DVI is female and the hdmi is male, as opposed to a conventional adapter bundled with most video cards.

You are correct, I have a reverse adapter (female DVI to male HDMI) that I use with a male DVI to male DVI cable. This is because in 2006 almost everything was still DVI and Radioshack had a massively thick gauge DVI cable for $5 which was unheard of to me at that time and in addition to that, Wal*Mart had the reverse adapter for around $3 to $4 so I bought both without any hesitation.

The 9500GT didn't come with an adapter except for a pointless male DVI to female VGA adapter. Actually I guess it isn't pointless if one was trying to use a VGA cable to connect to DVI ports to one another. I'm not trying to do that though so it's pointless lol. Those are the only adapters I have laying about though besides the male s-video to female Component (I still have no idea where this one came from). Speaking of which. I will be trying the s-video to Component connection momentarily. I fully expect overscan as I had it on the Orion/Toshiba 34HR85 with that connection but, this is a different set so with any luck it will be 1:1.

*edit* So much overscan lol. I could try on EDID override but, I will wait until I can see what a DVI to HDMI connection is going to do. I'll be pretty frustrated if an HDMI signal isn't going to be 1:1 and I'm doubting it will given that is never a native setting on a TV since overscan is almost always the native aspect ratio. At least it went to the native resolution on 1920x1080 on this signal but it's interlaced, degraded, and the overscan makes pointless as the VGA signal at 1920x1080p had less overscan.


Light bleed is often caused by the panel being squeezed within it's frame or against it's backlight. Bleed can *mellow out* a little bit as the panel settles down from gravity. Or you can force it's hand by picking the TV up, giving it a few gentle shakes, then turn upside down and on it's sides and repeat the gentle shaking, sounds dumb i know, but not so dumb when you realize it may be pressure causing the backlight anomolies in your case.

I will give this a shot later on after I played with all the different types of hookups and tests as it will add another variable.


Hopefully things smooth out where you don't feel compelled to return/exchange but i wouldn't settle with a mediocre TV either. Let us know how it works out or if you need help with the DVI setup.

Yea there is no way that I will settle. If it can't meet my needs it will be going back. After figuring out the viewing distance though it's easy to see why people are raving about this set over at Amazon as a TV. It's going to be an issue of the Pros outweighing the Cons. Right now the Cons are irritating and there is still a lot of stuff on the table.
 
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Ok, for the sake of argument, I removed the stand so that I could connect my male DVI to Male DVI cable to the female DVI to male HDMI adapter to the set. I have it connected to HDMI 1 on the TV and yes, all the 3 HDMI inputs are labeled. I don;t think trying the other ports will make a difference and there is no way for me to test HDMI 3 (the one on the side of the set) due to the adapter I have.

I want to vomit lol. There are numerous issues.

The first is that the native resolution is 720p (1280x720). This is because the Nvidia control panel is reporting this set as a Mitav MCT26T42. That's right, it thinks my 32" 1080p set is a 26" 720p set. I have no idea why this is the case but it's either improper reporting or this isn't really a 1080p set. Given that we have an idea of what panel is in it, I'm inclined to believe it's an issue of improper reporting. Even if that's the case though, it's still overscanning which is going to make this useless unless I can get it to run 1920x1080p natively.

That brings us to the multi coloured text. White text here on a dark background here at [H]ard Forum is white and yellowish. Black text anywhere on a white background is black, blue, and I don't even know what to call the last colour other than an abomination.

MonInfo says its 4:4:4 capable but, we all know how that goes. I did set it to 4:4:4 in the Nvidia control panel but it still looks just as bad. It also still looks just as bad at a 1080p (1920x1080) resolution. I don't even need a macro lens to see all the pixel bleed going on.

I'm going to go ahead and do the EDID override and see if that cures the issues with the text and 4:4:4 and, I'll post the results of that shortly.
 
The EDID override did not fix the anything other than the overscan at the 720p (1080x720) resolution. It also removed all the 1080p resolutions. I'm guessing my only otpion is extensive EDID edditing? Anyway, here is the data from Moninfo:

Monitor
Model name............... MTC26T42
Windows description...... Mitac MTC26T42 (MTC0B01 EDID Override) MTC26T42
Manufacturer............. Mitac
Plug and Play ID......... MTC0B01
Serial number............ 1001
Manufacture date......... 2008, ISO week 1
Filter driver............ Monitor, EDID Override
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. 700 x 390 mm (31.5 in)
Power management......... Not supported
Extension blocs.......... None
-------------------------
DDC/CI................... n/a

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.20
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.652 - Ry 0.333
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.275 - Gy 0.595
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.143 - By 0.063
White point (default).... Wx 0.285 - Wy 0.293
Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
Horizontal scan range.... 14-91kHz
Vertical scan range...... 22-80Hz
Video bandwidth.......... 160MHz
CVT standard............. Not supported
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #1....... 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported
800 x 600p at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA

Report information
Date generated........... 2/2/2012
Software revision........ 2.60.0.972
Data source.............. Registry-Active
Operating system......... 6.1.7601.2.Service Pack 1

Raw data
00,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,00,36,83,01,0B,E9,03,00,00,01,12,01,03,80,46,27,78,0A,19,90,A7,55,46,98,24,
10,49,4B,01,08,00,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,1D,00,72,51,D0,1E,20,6E,28,
55,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,1E,01,1D,80,18,71,1C,16,20,58,2C,25,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,9E,00,00,00,FC,00,4D,
54,43,32,36,54,34,32,0A,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FD,00,16,50,0E,5B,10,00,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,9B

The only changes I made to it are at the end of the RAW data. 00 (number of extensions) was 01 and 9B (checksum) was 9A. I'm sort of at the end of my "knowledgebase" so does anyone have any ideas at all or is this going to have to go back?
 
Small update. 1920x1080i via the DVI cable (DVI male to DVI male) to HDMI adapter (DVI female to HDMI male) removes the issue with text but it still fails the 4:4:4 test. I decided to uninstall the monitor in order to use it's default driver. Same thing here with 1920x1080i not having issues with the text. 1080p looks awful though and they both fail 4:4:4. I edited the HKR MaxResolution, HKR PreferredMode, and HKR MODES to 1920,1080,60 but it still running a native resolution of 720p (1080x720) and still calling itself a Mitac MCT26T42. I guess I don't understand EDID quite as much as I thought I did as I thought that would have triggered a change in native resolution. Maybe you can't change the native resolution via a monitor driver though.

BTW 1080i has a flicker when you scroll down a webpage or you open a window, program etc. It's fairly annoying and no one uses 1080i but. I felt it was worth mentioning.
 
I decided to take pictures of the failed 4:4:4 tests and of a pitch black scene of video playback. I didn't take images of the multi coloured text because you can all picture what that looks like even if you have never seen it. Please forgive the crappy quality as the camera just refused to focus despite being in macro mode. You may not be able to see the light bleed image unless you shift your viewing angle and/or mess with your brightness/contrast. Just let me know if there is an issue viewing it.

4:4:4 test (1920x1080p) DVI cable (male to male) to HDMI adapter (female DVI to male HDMI)

2012-02-02060602.jpg



4:4:4 test (1920x1080i) DVI cable (male to male) to HDMI adapter (female DVI to male HDMI)

2012-02-02060252.jpg



The light bleed. Please note the light I see isn't blue (like it was on the camera) but, this was the best I could mimic it. I also want to point out that the area on the bottom left isn't really there. That's a result of the screen "wash out" from the angle shift. Likewise, a most of the lower right corner is also washout and not actually light bleed. If you move your eye level to either of those corners or their vertical sides, that area will darken. of course when you do this the middle of the screen will lighten (which is why I think this might be cross talk). The image also didn't show the light bleed in the top left corner but, it's almost identical to the light bleed in the top right corner. Speaking of the top right corner, it's a bit more "intense" than the picture would lead you to believe. This image was also taken with the brightness turned down much lower than it normally would be so that the bleed could be seen clearly without the actual movie "darkness" affecting it.

2012-02-02062106.jpg



I'll wait for some feedback from yall but ultimately I think this set is going to have to go back. The lack of an available 1:1 pixel ratio in and of itself is a major problem. Then there is the fact that a 1920x1080p screen is being reported as a 1280x720p screen with a max resolution of 1920x1080i which means, there is either something incredibly wrong with it/the firmware or they have flat out lied with the "1920x1080 native resolution for Full-HD (1080p) performance" printed in multiple locations on the box. I know the screen is 1080 but, I'm honestly starting to believe the TV isn't as I haven't read about anyone having this happen other than people that actually own 720 sets.

I'm starting to run out of options to try and fix these issues as I can't try a HDMI to HDMI connection without purchasing a new video card and that's not going to happen anytime soon. The only other connection I could try is a different DV to HDMI cable/adapter setup and I honestly doubt that is going to make a difference. Even if I can get the set to report as 1920x1080p natively, I would likely have to use an EDID override to kill the overscan and that locks out the colour and sharpness settings in the TV menu. While the colour can be adjusted in the Nvidia control panel, the sharpness can not (excluding video playback) and you really need to be able to adjust the sharpness. Maybe one of you will have an idea that I haven't thought of. I don't mind putting in some work given that this set has been "untested" until now but, it's starting to reach an absurd level compared to the other sets that have been discussed.
 
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Well thanks to you all for the info in this thread.
I took a plunge and got a Westinghouse VR-3730 for my wife to use as a monitor.
Originally I was going to find an LG 32 (32LK450) but they did not have any with the IPS panel.



I haven't done any tweaking with this 37" per se, at first, the image quality was crap going HDMI-HDMI but after switching to VGA, it looked great!.

Any tips on tweaking in PC Mode on the VR-3730?
 
I haven't done any tweaking with this 37" per se, at first, the image quality was crap going HDMI-HDMI but after switching to VGA, it looked great!.

Any tips on tweaking in PC Mode on the VR-3730?
use dvi to hdmi to trigger 4:4:4.
But honestly vga was just fine on the vr3225 also so if it works that is ok also.
 
use dvi to hdmi to trigger 4:4:4.
But honestly vga was just fine on the vr3225 also so if it works that is ok also.

When I was in HDMI mode I noticed that 4:4:4 was on according to the screen's property..
 

She needs more addons. Also, EWWWWWW Alliance. In all seriousness though:

Any tips on tweaking in PC Mode on the VR-3730?

You already have 4:4:4 active so I'm guessing you are looking for PQ (picture quality) tweaks for the PC. You may want to look at the tests here (hover your mouse pointer near the top of the page to see the different test links) and here but keep in mind that I think these were developed for TN monitors. Just use caution as it's really easy to mess up the gamma and the overall quality once you start digging around in the video car's control panel. If things get to far off you might have to uninstall the monitor from the device list or even do a full uninstall of the video card driver (I loathe Nvidia's software/drivers). I would try to only adjust the TV settings and stay away from the video card driver's contrast/brightness/gamma unless you absolutely have to adjust them.



Back to the iSypmphony set. I hate to post again already but I had the opportunity to do a HDMI to HDMI connection. However, it was via my brother's laptop to the iSymphony, His laptop uses an Intel HD 3000 gpu and I have no idea how to force it to 4:4:4 because it was certainly not doing it on its own. There was obvious pixel bleed/shift just from looking at the test image with my eyes.

The other disappointment is even with HDMI to HDMI, the native resolution is still 720p (1280x720) and it still overscans at higher resolutions.


I also did some digging around in MonInfo while using the HDMI to HDMI and noticed the following information:

IA/CEA-861 Information
Revision number.......... 3
IT underscan............. Not supported
Basic audio.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
Native formats........... 2
Detailed timing #1....... 720x480p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27.030 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #2....... 1280x720p at 50Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1720 1760 1980 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #3....... 1920x1080i at 50Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2448 2492 2640 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #4....... 720x576p at 50Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x576" 27.000 720 732 796 864 576 581 586 625 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #5....... 720x480p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27.000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync

CE video identifiers (VICs) - timing/formats supported
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
1280 x 720p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
1920 x 1080i at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 32:27)
1920 x 1080p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 576p at 50Hz - EDTV (16:9, 64:45)
1280 x 720p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
1920 x 1080i at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 576i at 50Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 64:45)
1920 x 1080p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 25Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

CE audio data (formats supported)
LPCM 2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48/88/96/176/192 kHz

CE speaker allocation data
Channel configuration.... 2.0
Front left/right......... Yes
Front LFE................ No
Front center............. No
Rear left/right.......... No
Rear center.............. No
Front left/right center.. No
Rear left/right center... No
Rear LFE................. No

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
CEC physical address..... 1.0.0.0
Supports AI (ACP, ISRC).. Yes
Supports 48bpp........... No
Supports 36bpp........... No
Supports 30bpp........... Yes
Supports YCbCr 4:4:4..... Yes
Supports dual-link DVI... No
Maximum TMDS clock....... 205MHz

For the sake of clarity, the information is also present with my DVI to HDMI setup.

It's nice to see that apparently this set will only do 1:1 pixel mapping as long as it's not a 480i/p signal. However, it must only do 1:1 on a 1080i/p signal if it's a native signal (e.g a Blu-ray player & DVD) because manually increasing the resolution from 720p to 1080i/p results in over-scanning. I was going to try and test that theory as my brother's laptop has a Blu-ray player in it but, the player software refused to enter a full screen mode. WMP/WMC and VLC refused to play Blu-ray discs and I didn't want to install MPC HCE without talking to him about it first.

Also, you will notice that even though it does 1920x1080p 60/50/30 (16:9, 1:1), it will apparently only do so if it's from a CE video identifiers (VICs). I'm going to assume that's something that a Blu-ray player & Blu-ray DVD signal will trigger in the TV. What concerns me is that even in those situations, 1280x720p is still the native resolution.

You will also notice that there are only 480p, 720p, and 1080i settings in the "Detailed Timings" section. In addition to that, the 480p is in there twice with only a very slight difference in Modeline between them (27.030 Hz vs 27.000). I don't know if this was intentional, if it was an error, or if 720p EDIDs were loaded into 1080p sets but, it's frustrating as hell.


I honestly fail to see how this TV has the 1920x1080p native resolution that it claims it does. 1920x1080p native resolution means that is the native resolution on all the input channels. Even the horribly subpar Westinghouse HD-2280 I tried out had 1920x1080p as the native resolution over a VGA signal. I'm not sure what it did on a HDMI signal because I was unable to fit my adapter on it but, I'm fairly sure it would have been 1080p native on that as well.

It's looking more and more like my only option is to:

baarod said:
here

Use Phoenix to edit the EDID
Change the EDID settings to reflect the display's true capabilities
Save the EDID to a .DAT file in the working folder
Open the saved .DAT with MonInfo and make sure it doesn't complain about it
If MonInfo reads in and displays the settings the way they were configured in Phoenix then, select "Create INF" from the file menu and save it to the working folder
Edit the strings in the INF to my liking.
Open Start, type devmgmt.msc and press Enter.
Select the monitor I want to change, right click and select Update Driver Software
Use the tried and true "Have Disk" method to select the INF and install it.
Reboot and enjoy my new resolution!

The thing is, there is a ton of stuff to screwup in the EDID especially when it comes to the resolution and timing settings. Even though there is a 1920x1080i resolution, it's not listed anywhere in Phoenix so I have no way to determine what I need to put in the "Detailed Timings" tab for the pixel clock/blank/sync offset/image size for a 1920x1080 resolution. Then there are the ASCII string/range limits/colour point data/standard timing settings. Even if the 1920x1080i resolution was listed in Phoenix, I would only have the 1920 part of it as the 1080i part wouldn't be correct for the 1080p part.
 
Ok, just got off the phone with iSymphony. NEVER do business with this company. The 310 numbers on their website will tell you they are busy and to leave a voicemail. I had to call the 818 number to get an 800 number for iSymphony. Once I called the 800 number I spoke to someone and then was put on hold. When they came back on the line, they told me that I needed to change the resolution on the PC and they had no control over it.

In other words, they have no idea what a native resolution is and why it's important.

After explaining that to them, and that other TVs sold with a native resolution of 1080p don't have this problem. I was told I couldn't compare TVs to one another. I told them that I most certainly could when the TVs in question say they have a native resolution of 1080p. At this point they said it could be a manufacturing error and they have no control over that. I asked them why not as it was their product and they were responsible for the manufacturing. I was told there was nothing they could do.

I then told them I would be returning the television as they are clearly participating in false advertising and are selling a TV with a native resolution of 720p as a TV with 1080p. This prompted the response that they would send an email to corporate alerting them to the situation. Based on the rest of the conversation, clearly no email is ever going to be sent.

It would be one thing if this was an error but, to tell me multiple times that there is nothing you can do and that it's not your television because you didn't manufacture just defies logic. Save yourself the hassle and just stay away from them.
 
Just got back from returning the iSymphony LC32iF90. Feel free to add this set to the do not buy list here and at AVS.

The return was hassle free as Conn's was incredibly understanding and offered to go look in the back to see if they had anything comparable or that they could work with. While they were doing this, they went ahead and called to get the authorization numbers to do a refund to my card without being asked to. Unfortunately due to the recent clearances and new product roll-outs, they just didn't have anything that would work. You know customer service is top notch when you "hate" to have to return something.


Anyway, time to start looking for competitive pricing on the LG 32LK450 I guess. SearsOutlet has the VR3225 new but they want $325 for it which is entirely to much as is the $300 Newegg now wants. Sears/SearsOutlet also will not price match unless it is a local B&M (brick & mortar) store that has the item in stock so they are not an option unless they clearance it out. One would think SearsOutlet would be desperate to unload those sets at this point. Perhaps they or Newegg will slash the prices on them soon.
 
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Well thanks to you all for the info in this thread.
I took a plunge and got a Westinghouse VR-3730 for my wife to use as a monitor.
Originally I was going to find an LG 32 (32LK450) but they did not have any with the IPS panel.




I haven't done any tweaking with this 37" per se, at first, the image quality was crap going HDMI-HDMI but after switching to VGA, it looked great!.

Any tips on tweaking in PC Mode on the VR-3730?
Nice, wifie has joined us in our TV monitor niche, good for her i hope she's very happy with it. You even have a bias light :). I still want to try that TV out btw, must resist....

As for tweaking, to be honest, if it looks nice i wouldn't mess with it too too much. Swapping over to dvi-to-hdmi could be your "picture quality tweak" to do in the future when you are both ready for a change. NOTE: running two different types of display can mess with 4:4:4 sharpness on your TV when using dvi-to-hdmi. So if you insist on using those same two displays together then you may end up having to use VGA to keep it sharp, i would still try DVI anyway, just wanted to give you a heads up.

Just got back from returning the iSymphony LC32iF90. Feel free to add this set to the do not buy list here and at AVS.

The return was hassle free as Conn's was incredibly understanding and offered to go look in the back to see if they had anything comparable or that they could work with. While they were doing this, they went ahead and called to get the authorization numbers to do a refund to my card without being asked to. Unfortunately due to the recent clearances and new product roll-outs, they just didn't have anything that would work. You know customer service is top notch when you "hate" to have to return something.


Anyway, time to start looking for competitive pricing on the LG 32LK450 I guess. SearsOutlet has the VR3225 new but they want $325 for it which is entirely to much as is the $300 Newegg now wants. Sears/SearsOutlet also will not price match unless it is a local B&M (brick & mortar) store that has the item in stock so they are not an option unless they clearance it out. One would think SearsOutlet would be desperate to unload those sets at this point. Perhaps they or Newegg will slash the prices on them soon.
Sorry to hear it didn't it didn't work out, and thank you for taking all that time to research and taking one for the team. Also glad that Conn's took care of you (a shameless plug for them). The iSymphony should no longer be a consideration for anyone imho, too bad because on paper it had so much potential.

That was some learning experience i bet :cool:

As for pricing on other models, i didn't forget you, and will keep an eye out for deals and post them here. Although one decent way to keep track is using the search feature at busy hot deal forums like slickdeals and fatwallet. Type the word "LCD" or "TV" into their searchbox every day or so to see what you come up with, i've found plenty of deals in the past this way.
 
Wasn't there also a 2011 panasonic that claimed to do 4:4:4 (according to the manual)? But later found out that 4:4:4 was only available for photo viewing via usb port? Hope the WT50 series isn't like that.
 
Sorry to hear it didn't it didn't work out, and thank you for taking all that time to research and taking one for the team. Also glad that Conn's took care of you (a shameless plug for them). The iSymphony should no longer be a consideration for anyone imho, too bad because on paper it had so much potential.

That was some learning experience i bet :cool:

I should have said this in my last post but I want to thank everyone for thier feedback and for dealing with the multiple lengthy posts I made regarding that set. On paper it had an incredible amount of potential. In person it had a good deal of potential. In the end though it was just a bit flawed and the manufacturer really tried to disavow it so, it was all moot. Looking back, I guess I know why I had to sit further back to get a clearer picture for movies than I have to with my Orion/Toshiba 34HR85. To be fair, at least it refused to "upconvert" any source material but, that was really it's only standout feature given the EDID/720p native issue. It's such a shame it turned out this way as I was really routing for this set. Anyway, I was happy to share my experience even though it was a bit of a nightmare to go through. As long as it saves anyone from making the mistake of picking that set up, I'm good lol.

Unfortunately, it looks like I am going to be stuck with trying to find an "older model" as everyone is moving to edge lit LCDs. Westinghouse actually has a new CCFL 32" coming out this year but, it will only be in 720, This is really a mistake since even all the sub 24" monitors and "TVs" are moving to 1080p as a result of consumer demand. Granted, 1080p isn't needed for movies on a set that small but, everyone is using everything for a monitor theses days so this really seems counterproductive for Westinghouse. I scoured the internet earlier but, couldn't find anything off the approved list nor an "untested" set within my price constraints. I'll keep my eyes pealed on the two sites you suggested though. In hindsight, I probably should have "gambled" with the VR3225 when it was dirt-cheap. That's why they call it hindsight though.


All 2012 Panasonic LCD HDTV displays are IPS panels. The WT (42", 50") series (highest end) is supposed to support 4:4:4.

pq_17_img01.jpg

http://panasonic.net/avc/viera/us2012/product/wt_lcd.html

Wow, a manufacture has actually started to "advertise" 4:4:4 chroma. I certainly hope that catches on as it would remove a ton of reserach and guessing from the marketplace. Obviously it would still need to be confirmed as working but, being "advertised" is huge. Even the people that won't actually need it would consider it as it's being billed as a "higher amount of colour data". It's to bad it's just on their top tier products but from a marketing standpoint I understand why they did it that way.

*EDIT* Panasonic is also advertising the 4:4:4 on their GT (50", 55", 60" 65"), and VT (55" & 65") series. I really hope this trickles down into the smaller sets and doesn't start to become relegated to only the large displays.
 
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A challenger appears:

I got to looking around last night and saw that Best Buy has their Dynex DX-32L230A12 on sale for $299.99 (down from $349.99). Google turned up very little but, a call to Dynex's 800 number earlier resulted in some very useful information. They actually gave me the part numbers for:

The inverter board: 635MS0100

The mainboard: 3MS0120110

The LCD panel: 5203328308

The only thing a Google search returned was the for the panel which is fine because that's what I wanted the part numbers for anyway. The panel this set uses is an AUO T315HW04 VD which is an A-MVA panel. I was hoping it was an IPS given the advertised viewing angle of 178 degrees and it's price range but, it's not to shocking that it's a VA panel. The overall specs are similar to the VR3225 panels and the LC32iF90 panel but I'm not sure about how an A-MVA panel compares to a MVA, S-MVA, etc. This panel is listed as having a response time of 6.5 ms though but, obviously it will be much higher in the TV. The contrast ratio is listed as 5000:1 on the LCD screen but the TV is listed as 2500:1 in the owner's manual and is advertised as 5000:1 dynamic. Speaking of the owner's manual, it looks like this TV actually has a pretty decent selection in its menus. The hue (white balance) is absent but considering everything that isn't missing (being able to turn off a bunch of stuff and actually adjust the backlighting), it's a small oversight. It also doesn't mention anything about 1:1 pixel mapping and I completely forgot to ask Dynex about it when I called them. Considering the description of the "normal" aspect ratio though and that there is a separate setting in the TV menu to turn overscanning off and on, it's probably safe to assume it will do 1:1 pixel mapping.

If the promotional pictures for the A-MVA panel technology are to believed, it looks that type of panel would serve me well. I just wonder if the shift to a downward viewing angle is capable of not "washing out" like they claim a viewing angle shift to the side is. For what it's worth, Samsung has used AOU's A-MVA panels in their sets in the past. I don't know if they currently do but, they definitely did in 2010. In addition to that Sony has actually used the AUO T-con board for this panel in some of their sets according to shopjimmy and one of the those T-con boards was even used in the RCA 37LA45RQ. I know parts and firmware vary from manufacturer and even set to set but, on paper this looks like it could be a nice set. However, the LC32iF90 also looked pretty nifty on paper. Best Buy has a much larger reputation at stake than iSymphony does though and, this set looks far better on paper than the LC32iF90 did.

T315HW04 VD Product Specification 06/2011


This set has certainly caught my attention especially since Dynex was willing to give out part numbers so easily. I do wish it was just a little bit cheaper as it's now no longer available for in-store pickup and, sales tax plus shipping is going to suck since it pushes the total purchase price up to $341.78 which almost negates the sales price altogether. What really stinks is this was on sale for $249.99 on black Friday but, I wasn't shopping for a TV then and wouldn't have had the money at the time anyway. It was also down to $229.99 with free shipping at some point along that time-frame as well which probably would have been a steal.

Anyway the reviews on it look good but, there are only 20 and they aren't really "detailed" as they are most likely "typical consumers". The only thing a Google search turns up on the set is Best Buy and all the "deal" sites so, it's going to be uncharted water for this thread's usage scenarios. However, this may be worth looking into and it's certainly worth taking a look at in person.
 
i picked up the Samsung UN32D5500 from BB a few days ago to try out. when you relabel the input to PC it will pass the quick and dirty test, it noticeably fails without relabeling. i'm not sure if it passes the belle nuit test (see my edit below). not sure if that is failing the test or if it's what i've seen referred to as 'pixel smear'. regardless the tv has to go back. the picture is fantastic but i just can't get over the pixel pitch at the distance i'm sitting which is about 2.5 feet. i read through all the great info here so i knew this was a pretty strong possibility. it's one of those things you're not sure you can tolerate until you're face to face with it. still using my VE276Q at the moment, but one thing i've taken from this is that i dig glossy screens.

edit: on both the UN32D5500 and my VE276Q monitor i get columns that are more than one pixel wide. is this the way the image is supposed to display? i assume everybody is using the belle-nuit chart from this post, which is listed as 720p? a few pics with a low-quality camera:

Samsung UN32D5500 via HDMI (relabeled to PC)
belle-nuitUN32D5500HDMIPC.jpg


ASUS VE276Q via DVI
belle-nuitVE278QDVI.jpg


UN32D5500 via HDMI relabled to PC:
magentaUN32D5500HDMIPC-1.jpg


UN32D5500 via HDMI not relabled:
magentaUN32D5500HDMI-1.jpg
 
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Those having issues with the EDID info for

WESTY VR 3225

1.. http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

Run this utility to get your raw data although I will provide this monitors info below.

2..
The 2nd part of this procedure was taken from http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=58483&st=80&p=462506&#entry462506


Run "Regedit" & Navigate to:

HK_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\ Video

Open the folder & check each folder (eg. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\ Video\{E0CC2030-CCD8-49B9-8267-83140EF868CB} )

Check each sub folder called "0000" until you come across one which expands and includes the following:

>Display
>settings
>Uninstall
>Volatilesettings

Once you've located this, right click the "0000" folder and select "New" followed by "Binary Value".

Rename the value to:

OverrideEdidFlags0

and hit enter or okay

Next up, you need to right click the new key and select "Modify Binary Data" from the list.

You should have already written down the 4 numbers you've got from the Edid using the Pheonix utility.

the "*" is where you need to input your numbers followed by the rest so it looks something like:

*, *, *, *, 00, 00, ff, ff, 04, 00, 00, 00, 7e, 01, 00

The above *,*,*,* is SPECIFIC to each tv, hence the utility provided above, however the code for the WESTY VR 3225 is

5c,94,00,64


so what you will put in your Hex string is

5c,94,00,64,00,00,ff,ff,04,00,00,00,7e,01,00



Click okay once your done, close Regedit & reboot.

Just remember to change your default audio device if you were using an external decoder :thumbup:


NB.
Note: If you expand all "0000" keys and come across more than one instance of multiple folders, I recommend doing the key for one only, then reboot, check. If it doesn't work on the 1st, then delete the key you created & move down the list.. rinse and repeat.





I just wanted to help anyone having problems locating the specific EDID for the Westinghouse VR 3225


Loving mine!!!!! SWTOR looks great! :)
 
@ Grader, Thx for providing that EDID info. The good news is those using a dvi-to-hdmi cable probably won't need it ;). Glad you like the VR-3225, i'm enjoying mine way more than i thought i would, i didn't get my hopes up at first. I love high bit-rate videos/movies on it, the contrast/colors/sharpness is gorgeous.

@ Porter, thanks for testing and posting, but i'm not sure how to interpret the results, they are reminding me of Ryz's LN-32D550 results but i can't say for sure.

@ Racer, not sure about the Dynex. Some of these BestBuy brand models are gems, but there have been many duds as well. The 6.5ms has to do with pixel refresh and motion blur, not input lag per se, though it is one small factor of input lag. 6.5ms refresh is a good sign if the spec is true.
 
Those having issues with the EDID info for WESTY VR 3225

It's always nice to see alternative methods. Thanks for providing this information.


UN32D5500 via HDMI relabled to PC:
magentaUN32D5500HDMIPC-1.jpg


UN32D5500 via HDMI not relabled:
magentaUN32D5500HDMI-1.jpg

@ Porter, thanks for testing and posting, but i'm not sure how to interpret the results, they are reminding me of Ryz's LN-32D550 results but i can't say for sure.

Well it certainly makes a distinct difference when you relabel it to "PC" on the dirty test. I dunno though, going by the Bell-nuit test I don't think that set passes. My knowledge is limited but I don't think lowering the brightness to get it to pass would count as an actual pass.

Porter, the chart you linked to is the one I have been using. There is also another one that "bspvette86" created over at AVS that I forgot I had.

It's also worth pointing out that the Samsung 930b (4:3 aspect ratio) I am currently using over VGA fails the tests if the image is opened in Firefox or in WMC (Windows Media Center) so I advise you don't use those to display the image. I don't know why WMC (Windows Media Center) improperly scales the test images but, that flaw will make sure I never use it for any media playback again. Up until this discovery I thought it was on of the coolest "additions" to W7 compared to XP.

Viewing the Bell-nuit test image"

WMI (Windows Image Viewer) needs to have it's window maximized (make sure it's not zoomed in) or, you can click "fit image to window" (Ctrl+O) if you don't have the window maximized. It will not display the test image correctly if you don't do one of those two options.

MPC HCE (Media Player Classic Home Cinema Edition) needs to either have the window maximized or, it needs to be in full screen mode. It will not display the test image correctly if you don't do one of those two options.

WMP (WIndows Media Player) needs to either have the window maximized or, it needs to be in full screen mode. It will not display the test image correctly if you don't do one of those two options.


Viewing the "bspvette86" test image:

WMI (Windows Image Viewer) needs to have it's window maximized (make sure it's not zoomed in) or, you can click "fit image to window" (Ctrl+O) if you don't have the window maximized. It will not display the test image correctly if you don't do one of those two options.

MPC HCE (Media Player Classic Home Cinema Edition) can not display the "bspvette86" test image as it can not render png files.

WMP (WIndows Media Player) needs to be left alone when you open the test image in it. If you maximize the window or enter full screen mode, it will improperly scale the test image.


@ Racer, not sure about the Dynex. Some of these BestBuy brand models are gems, but there have been many duds as well. The 6.5ms has to do with pixel refresh and motion blur, not input lag per se, though it is one small factor of input lag. 6.5ms refresh is a good sign if the spec is true.

Thanks for clearing up the refresh issue. I figured experiences with Dynex were pretty varried just like they are with Vizio. Newegg actually has a 32" Vizio 1080p set for $279.99 that has a good chance of having an LG S-IPS panel in it (going by shopjimmy) but, it's a refurb (90 day warranty) so it's a moot point. I'm glad I held off on the Dynex though. Best Buy just dropped it down to $249.99 and they have it available for site to store again but, it will take 7-10 days to ship to the store. I think I may try this one out. I really detest test driving stuff but considering it's an online item, a Best Buy exclusive, and that it's not on display I don't have a lot of choice. Granted I don't have to try it out but, it really looks like it may be a really strong contender.

On that note, since I would have to wait for it to be shipped, what is the actual DVI to HDMI Monocable everyone is using? I figure I should eliminate the cable as a variable from my testing and, now is as good a time as any to do so.
 
On that note, since I would have to wait for it to be shipped, what is the actual DVI to HDMI Monocable everyone is using? I figure I should eliminate the cable as a variable from my testing and, now is as good a time as any to do so.
For 15ft runs or less, Monoprice's 28awg DVI-to-HDMI cables will work great, and will be more flexible than their thicker versions. Here's their 6ft and 10ft converter cables.

Since it is a standard cable in every way, you may be able to find it for a few dollars less elsewhere like amazon etc.

The only variable i'm not sure of is the injection of audio through the DVI pins, but i know very little about the topic and equipment required except that ATI branded dvi-to-hdmi adapters daisy chained to an hdmi cable will carry audio with many newer ATI cards.
 
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For 15ft runs or less, Monoprice's 28awg DVI-to-HDMI cables will work great, and will be more flexible than their thicker versions.

Since it is a standard cable in every way, you may be able to find it for a few dollars less elsewhere like amazon etc.

I'll take a look at Amazon but I think it will be difficult to beat Monoprice's prices. Newegg has some stuff that's on par with the total cost at Monoprice but the gauge of the cables aren't listed and I don;t feel like clicking on multiple cables to find out. I think I'll take the easy road on this one. I think a 6 ft is enough but, I've been down the road of I think 6 ft is enough in the past so I will probably grab the 10 ft to be safe should I ever rearrange anything.


The only variable i'm not sure of is the injection of audio through the DVI pins, but i know very little about the topic and equipment required except that ATI branded dvi-to-hdmi adapters daisy chained to an hdmi cable will carry audio with many newer ATI cards.

I'm still on Nvidia for the time being till the 6870s drop down to $100 or less. Either way though, the DVI audio isn't of any concern to me as I run a SPDIF cable from the motherboard to my receiver. Thank you for taking the time to point that issue out there as I am sure it will affect someone else that is following this thread.

Audio aside, hopefully they don't phase DVI out of video cards until after we have affordable TVs in the marketplace that are able to run 4:4:4 without the use of a DVI to HDMI cable. I bring this up as VGA looks to be finally going away. That's not a big deal though as VGA converters are almost always included and it's really only a last resort fallback for most users these days. Loosing DVI on the other-hand would break our 4:4:4 trigger.
 
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ah thanks Racer_J. i was opening the image in Windows Photo Viewer and pressing F11 to maximize it, which was the problem. the thing that was bothering me was that the VE276Q was showing the same image discrepancies which doesn't make sense. here's photos of the image opened full screen but not pressing F11. unfortunately i don't have a camera good enough to get better pictures, hence the distance pulled away from the screen and the slight blurring. still not sure if the UN32D5500 fully passes this test.

UN32D5500
belle-nuitUN32D5500HDMIPCC.jpg


VE276Q for reference
belle-nuitVE278QDVIB.jpg
 
This is the DVI to HDMI cable that I used.. It worked like a champ (had a 30% off all Rosewill Cables coupon): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882021059

I guess that rules out dual link DVI cables as a variable. Thanks for posting that.


ah thanks Racer_J. i was opening the image in Windows Photo Viewer and pressing F11 to maximize it, which was the problem. the thing that was bothering me was that the VE276Q was showing the same image discrepancies which doesn't make sense.

No problem. I had the same thing happen to me on the Samsung 930b and thought to myself "what in the hell" so, I decided to try out a bunch of various viewing options. Doing that on a VGA signal on a TN panel shows you a great example IRL of what you need to be looking for. You pretty much want it to look like your VE276Q does where just a single pixel is illuminated.



UN32D5500
belle-nuitUN32D5500HDMIPCC.jpg

To me, it looks like you have a blue sub-pixel activated next to the red lines. There might also be sub-pixels activated next to the blue lines as well but, it's hard to tell in that shot.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried turning the brightness down to see if it "passes" like Ryz did at one point? I would still consider it "cheating" but it would be interesting to see if those results can be duplicated or not.
 
Just out of curiosity, have you tried turning the brightness down to see if it "passes" like Ryz did at one point? I would still consider it "cheating" but it would be interesting to see if those results can be duplicated or not.

here's a shot with HDMI Black Level set to low:

belle-nuitUN32D5500HDMIblacklow.jpg


text appears equally clear on both settings, i'm not sure if it's just crushing blacks like Ryz suggested. i think i'll test the different settings while playing Metro 2033 and see if i lose detail going from 'normal' to 'low'. edit: oh yeah, it crushes blacks.

on a side note i'm starting to warm up to this tv. i'm adjusting to the size and beginning to like it. i've been playing games with my VE276Q in duplicate mode right next to it and there are some glaring deficiencies with the VE276Q. tons of green push and no way to get rid of it, something i hadn't noticed until another screen was right beside it. i was playing STALKER SoC Complete last night and while walking around at night i couldn't see shit on the VE276Q which i had always assumed was how it was meant to be. turns out you're supposed to see details! nature of TN vs VA panel i suppose. the UN32D5500 looks phenomenal while gaming.
 
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Found the panel that the Westinghouse VR-3730 uses.

It's a Chi-Mei (CMO) S-MVA V370H3-L02 Rev.C1 http://www.panelook.com/modeldetail_parameter.php?id=2370

Here's the main board / video board it uses, the 1106H0812 http://www.shopjimmy.com/westinghouse-1106h0812-main-board-for-vr-3730.htm

AaronChile's review of it was pretty revealing imho, mostly because he had the classic Westinghouse LVM W3 and a few other displays to compare it to. Makes me want to test drive it even more, i just may if the price drops down to $300-$330 + tax.

But if i find another sub-$240 VR-3225 then i may just buy a 2nd one instead, i really do like it that much, and have places i could use it.
 
Hey Sjetski (or anyone else), have you done a side-by-side comparison between the Westinghouse VR-3225 and LG LD450/LK450 yet? I'm not talking about an in-store comparison, but actually having both TVs hooked up to your own computer and environment so you can do a true A/B comparison.

Although I'm perfectly happy with my LGs, I'm trying to figure out if the +$150 differential on the LG is worth it. I'm planning on getting a six 32" eyefinity setup for my 7970 :p
 
Hey Sjetski (or anyone else), have you done a side-by-side comparison between the Westinghouse VR-3225 and LG LD450/LK450 yet? I'm not talking about an in-store comparison, but actually having both TVs hooked up to your own computer and environment so you can do a true A/B comparison.

Although I'm perfectly happy with my LGs, I'm trying to figure out if the +$150 differential on the LG is worth it. I'm planning on getting a six 32" eyefinity setup for my 7970 :p
Stormy1 mentioned an LG 32LD450 IPS comparison starting from this post. Not sure if he's willing or able to elaborate any further?

Personally with 6 VR-3225 i'd make sure the merchant had a lenient return policy, and at the very least a Squaretrade warranty on a couple of them. Then you may have to consider the probability of finding a replacement a year or two down the road, or you could pick up a spare right off the bat. This TV is becoming increasingly rare, i haven't seen a comparable replacement model, nor positively ID'd a clone yet. New and used repair parts are available. Dead/stuck/dim pixels are a real risk, not all use the same rev. samsung panel so there may be a little IQ variation. It also has very few menu options and i haven't been able to dig up any service menu codes. I think you can adjust the backlight level in the service menu, though i wouldn't change mine because i like it the way it is.

Not trying to talk the TV down or anything btw, after all it does work brilliantly despite it's limitations, and the price was def right. But when you are buying 6 of something you need a clear picture of what you are and aren't getting ;)

7970 and six 32" displays? Someone's looking into a serious setup, you'll need a good swivel chair :p
 
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Hey Sjetski (or anyone else), have you done a side-by-side comparison between the Westinghouse VR-3225 and LG LD450/LK450 yet?
As a monitor they are pretty close(LD).
I am very happy with the vr-3225 as a monitor.
As a qam tv the ld450 blows it out of the water.
The qam tuner in the vr-3225 blows chunks.
The ld450 also has more adjustments and is a better overall set but as a monitor and in particularly if you use it with vid cards that wont do 1080 the vr-3225 is fine just as good.
I use it on my test bench/office desk: main computer dvi to hdmi, vga to the test bench for computers I am working on, eventually will be on a 8 port vga kvm when I dig it out of storage.
I don't game but videos and flash games my wife plays all look fine on it.
For $259 I'm happy, at the current $300+ I would probably shop around more.
If there is anything else you would like to know ask away...
Keep in mind they are no longer side by side and are on different computers now.
 
Makes me want to test drive it even more, i just may if the price drops down to $300-$330 + tax.

But if i find another sub-$240 VR-3225 then i may just buy a 2nd one instead, i really do like it that much, and have places i could use it.

Nice find. I'm sure both will drop soon. Maybe lol. My Best Buy was down to two of the Westinghouse VR-3730 today and one of those was the display. They probably started selling them left and right for the game today though.

On that note, my Dynex DX-32L230a12 should arrive in about a week. I really wish this was an in-store item as I saw >9k of the DX-32L200a12 (720p version) today. Dedicating that much stock space to a 720p and not carrying the 1080p upgrade is just silly. >9k is obviously an exageration but, there were a ton of them. It was by far the most in stock set there.
 
Thanks guys for the 3225 vs 450 comparison. I didn't realize the 3225 was becoming rare. I could've swore the 3225 was sold at a bunch of B&M stores (e.g., Target, Walmart, Sears). Oh well, why'd you guys have to open your big mouths and let the secret out :p
 
here's a shot with HDMI Black Level set to low:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc10/Porter_/belle-nuitUN32D5500HDMIblacklow.jpg

text appears equally clear on both settings, i'm not sure if it's just crushing blacks like Ryz suggested. i think i'll test the different settings while playing Metro 2033 and see if i lose detail going from 'normal' to 'low'. edit: oh yeah, it crushes blacks.

on a side note i'm starting to warm up to this tv. i'm adjusting to the size and beginning to like it. i've been playing games with my VE276Q in duplicate mode right next to it and there are some glaring deficiencies with the VE276Q. tons of green push and no way to get rid of it, something i hadn't noticed until another screen was right beside it. i was playing STALKER SoC Complete last night and while walking around at night i couldn't see shit on the VE276Q which i had always assumed was how it was meant to be. turns out you're supposed to see details! nature of TN vs VA panel i suppose. the UN32D5500 looks phenomenal while gaming.

Porter if you are still testing both contrast and 4:4:4, then try giving this site a whirl: http://www.vanity.dk/tft/monitorTest_scale.html

Mouse over to the top of the screen to make the menu appear, then look to the far right and click the "text" link. Adjust the sliders to change both the text and background color.


On that note, my Dynex DX-32L230a12 should arrive in about a week.
I'm sure many would be curious to see your results with the Dynex. I hope this turns out to "the one" :)
 
thanks for the link SJetski71. i just think i'm unable to get the Samsung UN32D5500 to properly support 4:4:4 subsampling. i've tried VGA, HDMI, DVI-HDMI adapter w/ HDMI cable, different tv settings, different CCC settings, etc etc. i just don't think this one supports it.

UN32D5500
Next5500blacknormalHDMI.jpg


VE276Q
NextVE276Q.jpg
 
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