Why dumb phone might be valuable, soon

L

lightp2

Gawd
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
672
To meet web forum posting relevancy, the purpose of this thread is to
1. Post an observation with facts
2. Post an opinion based on the point stated above. However, it is not a universal truth declaration. Since it is not a universal truth, it follows that there could be counter-views, which meet the purpose of generic web forum in facilitating a discussion if there is a per-mutating circumstances.
-------------------------------------

1. The SmartPhone industry is in high gear.
2. Participants are moving actively.
3. For supporting facts, Apple posted record with iPhone. Figures are available elsewhere. Samsung reputed surging in the latest two quarters. SmartPhone designs flooded the markets. Microsoft is putting hundred millions of marketing money to ensure WP7 is seen. Intel insists that x86 is available NOW for SmartPhone, not future-tense. With Lenovo backing up the claim.
4. This part not so known but possible to check - in China/Taiwan, Android SmartPhone is moving aggressively to low-end as well.
5. Above are supporting contents, not the main purpose.
-------------------------------------
6. From contents elsewhere, we understand irrespective of Apple/Microsoft/Google/Misc-you-know-social-sites/companies-that-engage-in-these
6.1 All of them want to know what you do (last ...) now, everywhere you go, everything you want, every move you make (there is a song for this) as they collect more and more to categorize and analyze, deduce, permutate, ...
6.2 Due to proliferation of SmartPhone, maybe from the day you start high school all the way till you meet whatever, everything is recorded since SmartPhone is now part of you.
6.3 Aiding this is every software on the SmartPhone that monitors everything, including freeware that sell advertisement, in directly supplying other relevant information back to the pool.
7. Above is supplementary info.
--------------------------------------------------------------

8. Below is the main aim of this posting

8.1 This post does not debate the above description.
8.2 This post suggests that Early generations of absolute dumb phones, that basically make and receive calls and nothing more, could be useful and valuable.

8.3 You may or may not escape those scenario in the beginning of this post, but such absolute dumb phone maybe will give a slightly more peaceful communicative existence.
8.3.1 They can be managed by carriers, (I keep this part because all legal entities are interested in this part, facts of life). However, at least for marketing-wise, they do not broadcast every tiny detail of your personal life to the collective pool every seconds, probably will reduce a bit, for some who care.
8.3.2 As you know, a very recent Slashdot privacy article, and Arstechnica new article about personal data ... :)

Summary : Those entry-level Nokia/Samsung/Sony/LG/Motorola/whatever most elemental early dumb phone could actually become most appreciated by some.

Suggestion : Keep an early generation absolute dumb phone. It could really become useful for some (and maybe, no guarantee, appreciate in value, if SmartPhone overwhelm the entire phone industry, leaving minute presence for other types).
 
Last edited:
I'm shopping for a basic phone for my girlfriend, she's done with droids. It is so hard to find anything decent. They (Verizon) release one or two a year that have QWERTY's. Settled on a Cosmos 2, as she used to have an Env2 and liked it.
 
For basic phones; I actually think the Sanyo that sprint sells is pretty decent....
 
I am getting sick of smart phones. I was going to go with Android from iOS, but now I'm not so sure with Google's new policies coming out, and the fact that you need a Google account to have the phone. I am ready to ditch Google altogether. They're an NSA front. I'm not going to waste my breath arguing with anyone about this fact. Look for yourself. If you still don't believe it, you'll never see any kind of truth. Apple is almost as bad, and they are getting worse. I don't want any kind of social networking or cloud services built into my phone. Even though I don't have to use them, I don't want them on there in the first place. I should have to specifically add those capabilities by downloading an app. I guess dumb phones aren't any better. All phones made after like 2001, BY LAW, must be able to be remotely controlled, and to be used as spy devices through the microphone and camera, if there is one, even if they are turned off. Obviously if you take the battery out the tracking isn't going to last that long, but it will still be on. Plus, the prices for service are just getting outrageous. The big few companies have now totally managed to stomp out just about all local providers by sneaking in with low prices, take a hit for a while, and then jack the crap out of them when no one has anywhere else to go. Monopolous bastards.
 
I have, and always have used basic phones. I've never quite understood the allure of accessing the internet via a 4" screen (I have a 30" monitor at home).
 
Arizona_Steve said:
I have, and always have used basic phones. I've never quite understood the allure of accessing the internet via a 4" screen (I have a 30" monitor at home).
Click to expand...

Well you can't use that 30" monitor on the couch or anywhere else besides your desk. If you've used a decent size/resolution smart phone (i.e Galaxy Nexus or any other 720p device), then you might understand. It comes down to you paying for the convenience and portability though. I have 3x 24" monitors and still use my phone (Galaxy Nexus) more than it even at home for browsing because my Wife hates when I retreat to my "man cave" since she knows I will never return for the evening :p. But it can actually be quite enjoyable if you have the right phone.
 
My wish is for a smartphone that would have a decent call quality, great camera, GPS, email (For business people) and maybe texting. I would never need a smartphone for music, or games, since having these on a small screen and low sound quality would be a waste and I have the home computer for those. Since none are around, I opted for the basic phone Convoy 2 as "HeavensCloud" has, and could not be happier. Not to mention I only pay $29.99 per month from Verizon with 200 minutes.

;)
 
I love my smartphone and will never get rid of it. I do have a simple-ass dumb motorola phone that I keep in case the need for tinfoil hats actually happens. #win-win
 
I haven't done nearly enough research on aftermarket and open source software, but my initial thought is you might be able to find a custom ROM with some of the concerning anti-privacy functionality removed?
 
grimster said:
I am getting sick of smart phones. I was going to go with Android from iOS, but now I'm not so sure with Google's new policies coming out, and the fact that you need a Google account to have the phone. I am ready to ditch Google altogether. They're an NSA front. I'm not going to waste my breath arguing with anyone about this fact. Look for yourself. If you still don't believe it, you'll never see any kind of truth. Apple is almost as bad, and they are getting worse. I don't want any kind of social networking or cloud services built into my phone. Even though I don't have to use them, I don't want them on there in the first place. I should have to specifically add those capabilities by downloading an app. I guess dumb phones aren't any better. All phones made after like 2001, BY LAW, must be able to be remotely controlled, and to be used as spy devices through the microphone and camera, if there is one, even if they are turned off. Obviously if you take the battery out the tracking isn't going to last that long, but it will still be on. Plus, the prices for service are just getting outrageous. The big few companies have now totally managed to stomp out just about all local providers by sneaking in with low prices, take a hit for a while, and then jack the crap out of them when no one has anywhere else to go. Monopolous bastards.
Click to expand...

You don't actually need a Google account to use Android. You do need it for the Android Market...but you can get apps via other App Stores too. I understand your not wanting to be tied to Google or any company...

I like having a smartphone because it gives me access to information I want when I'm not at home easily. If you rooted your phone you could remove any app you wanted, but there's no way to stop your phone from being tracked via GPS.
 
Deathwish238 said:
but there's no way to stop your phone from being tracked via GPS.
Click to expand...

Sure there is.. Airplane Mode :p. Unless you think the NSA can still secretly track you somehow and risk it interfering with with an actual airplane :p.
 
The purpose of this post is to add relevant supplementary info

Article on engadget per background data collection, one example.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/26/vlingo-explains-data-collection/#continued

--------------
separate material

OTOH, dumb phones or basic phones usually have very long battery standby time and talk time if you choose the right one. Honestly Nokia most entry level phone is not bad. [I am biased on this since I used Nokia for a long time.]
----------------------------------

Edit Feb 8, 2012 add even more supplementary info

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/path-discovered-phoning-home-with-your-address-book/12182
 
Last edited:
Basic phones are still very popular among the older crowd or younger teens who wants a phone just for texting. For the older folks especially a strong or water resistant phone is their poison.
 
T4rd said:
Sure there is.. Airplane Mode :p. Unless you think the NSA can still secretly track you somehow and risk it interfering with with an actual airplane :p.
Click to expand...

Actually, all phones made after 2001 have been required by law to be able to be tracked, no matter what, via the Telecommunications Act of 1996. It is hidden under the guise of being for 911 systems to be able to locate you if you do not know the address. They also have to be able to be remotely operated, i.e. turned into listening devices. Still don't believe me? Have fun with your airplane mode when they go through with deploying NDAA on the people. The only way is to take out the battery, and even then I'd imagine there is a capacitor somewhere to store a charge to blip out some RF tracking signal intermittently. It's just like the whole safe sex argument. The only way to not have a cell phone tracked is to not own one.
 
grimster said:
Actually, all phones made after 2001 have been required by law to be able to be tracked, no matter what, via the Telecommunications Act of 1996. It is hidden under the guise of being for 911 systems to be able to locate you if you do not know the address. They also have to be able to be remotely operated, i.e. turned into listening devices. Still don't believe me? Have fun with your airplane mode when they go through with deploying NDAA on the people. The only way is to take out the battery, and even then I'd imagine there is a capacitor somewhere to store a charge to blip out some RF tracking signal intermittently. It's just like the whole safe sex argument. The only way to not have a cell phone tracked is to not own one.
Click to expand...

I understand that they're required to be tracked, but not when the phone is off or under any inconceivable circumstance. The 911 guise doesn't make sense in my example because you can't call 911 while the phone is in airplane mode (though I'm sure the phone automatically enables the phone radio, disabling airplane mode, in order to make an emergency call). So if your phone isn't communicating with a cell tower, isn't connected to a local/WiFi network and doesn't have the GPS radio enabled, what method do they have to track you with or even reach the phone in order to enable tracking?

Unless you show me a phone that's turned off next to a spectrum analyzer displaying what (if any) frequencies that phone is transmitting, I'm afraid I'm going going to wear your tin foil hat.

Also, why would I have fun enabling airplane mode? Is than an enjoyable experience for some people? Lol.. don't make me go full Chui on you :p. In other words; chill out and converse without taking taking the offensive.
 
Uh, yes, if you would READ what I keep saying...the law requires that the phones are able to be tracked, on or off. They are required to be able to be operated remotely for the purpose of a listening device, on or off. The 911 thing I mentioned makes perfect sense. It sets the precedent for them to be allowed to track you. Anyone could then just prank them and put their phone in airplane mode and get away with it. I know on my iPhone I can put it in airplane mode and then go enable wifi or bluetooth, if I wish.

Apply whatever labels you want to me, it only shows that you can no longer hold an adult conversation, and are unwilling to actually research the laws that are being applied to you, and that you need to resort to name-calling to fortify your own false reality. It doesn't make me any less right. You only create your own demise by living a life of silly childhood, ignoring things that are real issues, and just thinking things won't exist simply if you refuse to believe that they are real.

And I'm pretty sure no matter what mode you put your phone in, they have to be able to make an emergency call. You can own a phone without a provider and still be able to dial 911. Laws on being able to reach 911 are VERY strict. Airplane mode is also not some strict standard that says x y and z radios have to be off. It varies between manufacturers.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I read what you said about it, then I noticed that you didn't link to anything that said the phones had to have the ability to be tracked while powered off. If you're going to bring "facts" like that to a discussion and they seem easily refutable, then you might want to reference some verbiage somewhere that backs you up. In this case about a phone being tracked while it's powered off. You don't state something like that, not reference it, then call out others for not researching it, lol.

It's pretty ironic you telling me that I can't hold an adult conversation too. You started on the offense with the "Have fun with.." remark, then took it further just now by making up a story about name calling and getting butt hurt the second anyone challenges you. I have called no one any names in this thread, so I dunno WTF you're talking about. There's this thing called "tact" and you seem to lack it.
 
The Telecommunications Act of 1996, among other laws can be easily looked up. They're public information. I'm not going to coddle you and spoon feed you all of the information. Be an adult, do your own research. It's like you think you can deny anything all day because you don't feel like doing your own research. Why do you think these companies weren't held accountable when this tracking scandal came out last year? A little stink was made by a few Senators and Congress-people, then things dwindled down. BECAUSE THE COMPANIES WERE COMPLYING WITH LAW. The stink was simply something to make the public seem like something is being done about it. It's all theater. Whatever this has to do with a tin foil hat is beyond me. I also don't see how it's far-fetched that outside things can be electronically injected into the mind.
 
grimster said:
Uh, yes, if you would READ what I keep saying...the law requires that the phones are able to be tracked, on or off. They are required to be able to be operated remotely for the purpose of a listening device, on or off. The 911 thing I mentioned makes perfect sense. It sets the precedent for them to be allowed to track you. Anyone could then just prank them and put their phone in airplane mode and get away with it. I know on my iPhone I can put it in airplane mode and then go enable wifi or bluetooth, if I wish.

Apply whatever labels you want to me, it only shows that you can no longer hold an adult conversation, and are unwilling to actually research the laws that are being applied to you, and that you need to resort to name-calling to fortify your own false reality. It doesn't make me any less right. You only create your own demise by living a life of silly childhood, ignoring things that are real issues, and just thinking things won't exist simply if you refuse to believe that they are real.

And I'm pretty sure no matter what mode you put your phone in, they have to be able to make an emergency call. You can own a phone without a provider and still be able to dial 911. Laws on being able to reach 911 are VERY strict. Airplane mode is also not some strict standard that says x y and z radios have to be off. It varies between manufacturers.
Click to expand...

I do some work with communications equipment, and the idea that phones can track you or being used as listening devices while they are turned OFF is completely crack headed. I am sorry to shatter your tinfoil hat world, but no piece of consumer electronics I have ever touched has been able to do this.
 
Yea, because you don't have access to do that. There are back doors purposely built into every single piece of technology out there. Keep trying. Keep using the "tin foil hat" label. Keep living in your la-la land thinking the world is perfect and innocent, and that governments and people of "authority" and whatnot want to help you and be your friend.
 
grimster said:
Yea, because you don't have access to do that. There are back doors purposely built into every single piece of technology out there. Keep trying. Keep using the "tin foil hat" label.
Click to expand...

They can't back door into a cell radio that is turned off. It is OFF, it can't receive anything, it doesn't matter what people try getting to the device, the radio is dead to the world. Period.
 
Yes, I did my research and found the PDF of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. I did a Ctrl+F on there and typed "record", then read all 25 instances where it came up. I did the same thing for tracking and locating and couldn't find anything in there about devices being required to have the ability to track or record from phones. I don't expect you to "spoon feed" me anything, I expect you to back yourself up with explicit references if you want to be taken seriously or believed.

grimster said:
Why do you think these companies weren't held accountable when this tracking scandal came out last year? A little stink was made by a few Senators and Congress-people, then things dwindled down. BECAUSE THE COMPANIES WERE COMPLYING WITH LAW. The stink was simply something to make the public seem like something is being done about it. It's all theater. Whatever this has to do with a tin foil hat is beyond me. I also don't see how it's far-fetched that outside things can be electronically injected into the mind.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about Carrier IQ? If so, then that has nothing to do with what we're discussing. Carrier IQ is a privately owned software company that had a partnership with some carriers (Sprint and AT&T for the most part) that installed software onto select smart phones under the guise of "debugging errors in order to make your network experience better", but while doing that was logging every action the user make on their device. After the "big stink" was made, Sprint recognized the bad PR and took action against it.

But that's totally different than what we're talking about because that only effected a handful of Android smart phones on a couple carriers. We're talking about the NSA (or whatever other Federal entity) having the ability to communicate with a any phone while it's turned off and enable its microphone and cell radios in order to record around and track your device. I do believe that it's technically possible for a device to do that, but I don't believe that's in effect right now. Unless you cite something that says otherwise. I've done some quick research on it and came up with nothing on the topic. I would actually be humbled if you proved me wrong so that I could be more aware of the matter.

Again though.. learn the "tact" thing. It will help you out a lot on these forums and life in general ;).
 
The device is turned off to the user, but the radios are required to stay on in a mode that isn't actively on, but still able to be "hacked" or broken into. I don't even know what the hell this other jerk-off is trying to say about tact. All these companies do when caught by the public is hide the systems even deeper. They don't get rid of it. It must be nice thinking the world is fluffy and no one out there has any kind of sinister intentions unless they're Muslim or generally religious.
 
I have a Motorola W315. With a 1800mAh battery and front LCD unplugged, this thing lasts forever AND is far more durable and rugged than your average SmartPhone... and cheaper by like 99%+.
 
grimster said:
The device is turned off to the user, but the radios are required to stay on in a mode that isn't actively on, but still able to be "hacked" or broken into.
Click to expand...

No they aren't. There is no secret mode on the radios and no magical power source that keeps the radios in a sleep-listening state when the devices are off.
 
My phone has a secret radio and magical powers. I hacked it myself.

How else do you think I am dating models? Magic.
 
lightp2 said:
The purpose of this post is to add relevant supplementary info

Article on engadget per background data collection, one example.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/26/vlingo-explains-data-collection/#continued

--------------
separate material

OTOH, the additional benefit of dumb phone or basic phone is usually they have very long battery standby time and talk time if you choose the right one.
Click to expand...

My LG Dare had like 8 days of standby and 300 hours of talk. Before that I had some brick from samsung with 2 weeks of standby and like week of talk. My SGS2 has 3 days of standby and 70 hours of talk :(
 
grimster said:
The device is turned off to the user, but the radios are required to stay on in a mode that isn't actively on, but still able to be "hacked" or broken into. I don't even know what the hell this other jerk-off is trying to say about tact. All these companies do when caught by the public is hide the systems even deeper. They don't get rid of it. It must be nice thinking the world is fluffy and no one out there has any kind of sinister intentions unless they're Muslim or generally religious.
Click to expand...

Lol, ok, you've pretty much ruined yourself here now. You're pretty much going into troll mode resorting to name calling (funny you resorted to that first after accusing me of it out of nowhere) and refusing to back yourself up with anything whatsoever.

Just FYI, I'm a CISSP and hold a clearance in the DoD. I think I know a few things about security.
 
I had my android phone directly wired to my retinas. Now I can browse the web on a 100" screen, watch porn without anyone else knowing, and play plants vs zombies anywhere...
 
Blue Falcon said:
I had my android phone directly wired to my retinas. Now I can browse the web on a 100" screen, watch porn without anyone else knowing, and play plants vs zombies anywhere...
Click to expand...

you can tap into the inner porn but how can you fap without anyone knowing? useless. :rolleyes: :D

seriously.. back o/t people (whatever it is.. didn't read the long op.) :p
 
Although the benefits of a basic phone are great. I still have a basic phone for my 'home phone' after reading your first post I didn't know how to respond because...

1. It was really fucking weird
2. It was almost incoherent

--------------------------------------------------------

3. You are paranoid
3.1 You believe in conspiracy theories
4. Your post was structured like an outline but did it incorrectly
5. Considering basic phones cost companies like $20 to build I don't think their value will appreciate
 
grimster said:
I am ready to ditch Google altogether. They're an NSA front. I'm not going to waste my breath arguing with anyone about this fact.
Click to expand...

Hey Grimster,

Did we ever meet in that basement on Patuxent? Coulda' been Pine Gap, I guess!

Anyway...

Google isn't 1/10th the story for my old pardners at No Such Agency! :D

We are an amazing flock of Ostriches, huh? :eek:

I still use the very first dumb and dumber phone ever! Unfortunately, they are already on the music CD path to extinction.

Ah well... That's democracy fer' yah' ...
 
DirtyB said:
Although the benefits of a basic phone are great. I still have a basic phone for my 'home phone' after reading your first post I didn't know how to respond because...

1. It was really fucking weird
2. It was almost incoherent

--------------------------------------------------------

3. You are paranoid
3.1 You believe in conspiracy theories
4. Your post was structured like an outline but did it incorrectly
5. Considering basic phones cost companies like $20 to build I don't think their value will appreciate
Click to expand...

LMAO, Winner!
 
Arizona_Steve said:
I have, and always have used basic phones. I've never quite understood the allure of accessing the internet via a 4" screen (I have a 30" monitor at home).
Click to expand...

So do you never leave the house? Or even just take a long dump?

Smartphones do more than just access the internet you know. I couldn't live without one. Even when I'm sitting in front of my 3x24" setup, my smartphone is what tells me if I have mail, IMs, or other notifications, not my desktop. And when it comes time to get somewhere, I use my phone's turn-by-turn navigation, not a standalone GPS.
 
grimster said:
The device is turned off to the user, but the radios are required to stay on in a mode that isn't actively on, but still able to be "hacked" or broken into. I don't even know what the hell this other jerk-off is trying to say about tact. All these companies do when caught by the public is hide the systems even deeper. They don't get rid of it. It must be nice thinking the world is fluffy and no one out there has any kind of sinister intentions unless they're Muslim or generally religious.
Click to expand...

If you go into airplane mode and the radios aren't fully powered off it wouldn't be allowed in airplanes in the first place due to pesky FAA regulations, making the mode useless. Seeing as you can use airplane mode on the airplane, I'm going to go with the radio is fully powered down over some made up tracking conspiracy.

Oh, that and I actually work on cell phones for a living.

grimster said:
I was going to go with Android from iOS, but now I'm not so sure with Google's new policies coming out, and the fact that you need a Google account to have the phone.
Click to expand...

1) You don't need a Google account to have the phone

2) Android != Google. You can have an Android phone that doesn't have a single drop of closed-source Google code. Hell, all the good custom ROMs start out that way as they are built from AOSP.

I am ready to ditch Google altogether. They're an NSA front. I'm not going to waste my breath arguing with anyone about this fact.
Click to expand...

No they aren't. And if it was a fact you could prove it. Since you can't, it isn't a fact. Just because you believe it doesn't make it true, and sure as hell doesn't make it a fact.
 
If you plan on discussing anything seriously illegal with a phone in someone's pocket or sitting on the table...on or off, well, Darwin will prevail eventually.
 
grimster said:
The device is turned off to the user, but the radios are required to stay on in a mode that isn't actively on, but still able to be "hacked" or broken into. I don't even know what the hell this other jerk-off is trying to say about tact. All these companies do when caught by the public is hide the systems even deeper. They don't get rid of it. It must be nice thinking the world is fluffy and no one out there has any kind of sinister intentions unless they're Muslim or generally religious.
Click to expand...

RAWR! You don't like phones. We get it. Good for you. The rest of us, in the Mobile Phones section here at [H]ardForum, DO like phones.

Be gone heathen devil pagan wist thou tinfoil hat!

OT: I keep an old Sanyo SCP-3200 for shits and giggles. It works.
 
I've never owned a smart phone, I get annoyed to no end with people that just lose complete interest in what they were telling you or what you were telling them, all because something happened on their f'ng smart phone.

I am able to check my email at work and at home
I can go on facebook at home

I am not addicted to my phone and thus have no problem leaving it alone when I feel like it.

So arguments for a dumb phone:
1) liberty, you aren't a hostage of your own phone
2) etiquette, is easier to maintain because your phone isn't constantly updating you withe very social network, email and weather update etc etc.
3) battery, because I am not constantly using my phone I dont need to charge it as frequently
4) far cheaper to own, I see too many people that own a cellphone that is beyond their means, they can barely feed themselves but they added $30 a month to their plan so they can have data
5) Flip phones are awesome, it is for me the only option I will consider when purchasing a phone
6) It gives you something to look forward to when you get home: who emailed me? who commented on the picture I posted last night? It will free up your time during the day by looking at all your updates at once!

Finally: I would love a dumb phone that: Has a nice screen, good GPS, very good camera and other than that just texting and calling.

For business purposes all this changes, but for a personal phone ^^^
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top