Anyone have a Razer Blackwidow/Blackwidow Ultimate and happy with it?

So lately I've been saving up to buy myself a good mechanical keyboard... I'm sick of mushy feeling $10 membrane switch keyboards and have longed for the days of the good old PS/2 mechanical keyboards.

I've been checking out the keyboard isle at Fry's the last few times I've went and had it narrowed down to the Corsair K60/K90 or one of the Razer Blackwidow keyboards. I had been leaning towards the BW/BWU until I read a couple of horror stories here about shoddy support and people getting keyboards with missing keycaps, etc. So then I had all but decided on the Corsair K60 and went back to Fry's tonight to make my purchase. I was at the keyboard isle and they happened to have a K60 with an open box and so I pulled it out of the box to try it out... and BOY am I glad I did. I guess I'm not one for the Cherry red switches AT ALL... they seemed mushy and provided no tactile feedback whatsoever. Nothing against the construction of the keyboard at all, in fact it seemed fantastic and all of the reviews I've seen/read echo that sentiment of it just oozing quality. It really makes me wish they made one with different switches.

They had the Steelseries boards (6 and 7) and they felt absolutely wonderful to type on, but that enlarged enter key and tiny backspace key are absolute deal breakers for me. So that left my choices between the Razer BW/BWU or the SIIG mechanical. The SIIG mechanical actually feels really fantastic and is layed out properly - but I've seen lots of quality complaints on it so I passed.

Long story short: I walked out with a Blackwidow Ultimate.... and to be honest I damned near walked out with the BF3 version because that orange backlighting was pretty sexy and unusual. I'm hoping that this one will at least last me until Corsair comes out with something better, ideally with different switches and a full set of mechanical instead of partial rubber dome.

So what I'm wondering is if there are any of you guys who have the Razer keyboards, have had them for awhile, and are happy with them. I've seen a few complaints here about poor support and bad quality, but honestly they all seem to be third hand with no actual first hand experience. Just 'I read that so-and-so got a board that was missing keys' etc, etc.

I was pretty hesitant to post here... honestly I loathe the whole 'mechanical keyboard enthusiast' scene because the people can be so snobbish/elitist. Only thing worse is the audio subforum, lol. So if you're going to post and tell me how great your Leopold is because you paid $300 for it please spare me. Honest opinions and options are, of course, welcome.


<EDIT>

Also, I know there are some other options for me if I want to order online. I looked briefly at Ducky, Deck, and Filco but many of them seemed too pricey especially the Filco. I didn't want to spend more than $100 and I wanted something with backlit keys.

Heaven to me would be a good mechanical keyboard with a standard layout and white LED backlit keys.

</EDIT>

Blackwidow here. Had it since the summer.
Hate to say it, but its one of the worst purchases I have ever made. Its cheap, very cheap. The gloss body is just stupid and the build quality is creaky....not to mention Im on my 3rd or 4th one already due to broken switches out of the box.
It is the last razer product Ill buy. It now sits unplugged on my desk as I reverted to my faithful aluminum apple keyboard. I use the blackwidow once every few weeks.

I got the new Corsair mouse and am very impressed so Ill wait until their next bath of keyboards.

I've had a BUW since about March 2011, I think (I need to check my reciepts for that). Perfect so far. Noisey, due to Cherry MX Blue switches, otherwise nothing wrong with it. It's glossy, which I don't like, but I've read about an updated "Stealth Edition" model that is matte plastic (and full 6KRO, instead of 2KRO), in addition to using Cherry Browns switches, which should be quieter.

Otherwise, I've only had one MS Wireless 4000 mouse (the reciever, specifically), die on me so far. Currently using BWU and Logitech G9x and happy

I'm considering buying the updated model, just for the quieter switches, and partially because I like matte better than gloss (in a lot of other things, too ).

jeremyshaw said:

I've had a BUW since about March 2011, I think (I need to check my reciepts for that). Perfect so far. Noisey, due to Cherry MX Blue switches, otherwise nothing wrong with it. It's glossy, which I don't like, but I've read about an updated "Stealth Edition" model that is matte plastic (and full 6KRO, instead of 2KRO), in addition to using Cherry Browns switches, which should be quieter.

Click to expand...

I've seen the Stealth... I didn't like it for the same reason I don't like the Corsair K60/K90 - the key feedback just isn't there.

The noise of the switches on the BW/BWU doesn't bother me at all and I really like the little 'snap' of feedback they give when you type. The Steelseries had the same type of feedback as well. The Corsair and Razer BW Stealth just seem to bottom out without any real feedback whatsoever... I guess some people like it (and the quiet that goes with it) but I sure don't.

I was unaware that the BW Stealth had 6KRO though, didn't see that anywhere on the literature but it would be nice for hardcore gamers I suppose.

I guess the glossy finish on the BW/BWU bother people because it's going to attract fingerprints like crazy. I don't think it looks cheap really but I'm not crazy about it either. I will say that the matte black finish on the Stealth is MUCH nicer looking.

I've had the BWU for a couple months no, no issues with it at all, well other than not waking anyone up in the morning due to the clickity clack of the keyboard keys. =)

I purchased both the BWU and K90 over the past weekend and have them side by side. Alot of people like the aluminum of the K90, but I'm sitting here looking at it and it does not appeal to me. There is alot of black light bleed on the K90 (since they keys are actually elevated for cleaning). The black light bleeding is pretty much non existance on the BWU.

I also own a Steelseries 6Gv2 wich black cherry switches. TBH, I like all three switches of the keyboards I have. (Black, Blue, Red). I really have no preference for gaming (WoW and SC2). For typing however, I have to lean towards the Blue switches, however, as I sit here typing, it is noticeably louder than both the brown and blacks, but man is it a joy to type on.

One thing I liked about the K90 over the BWU is that it had a wristpad which worked fairly well, but the BWU does not. My 6Gv2 also had a wrist tray from the 7G which I really liked as I could rest my wrist on the tray comfortably.

I find that the gloss on the BWU is not that bad. I still haven't noticed any huge fingerprints or smudges on the keyboard, but I also don't eat and type/game at the same time, so if you did that, I could see how it could get smudged.

Also, the BWU keyboard just looks cleaner overall than the K90 as the K90 seems very busy to me. Perhaps their next revision will rock a cleaner look. One good thing about the K90 is the amount of macro switches (18 vs 5) and the fact that they sit lower than the rest of the other keys. Also the volumne knob on the K90 and Windows lock button is a nice touch.

Personally, I'm keeping the BWU as I prefer it.

One thing though when I opened the box to the BWU, is that the keyboard was not even and the bottom left hand side did not sit on the desk like a chair with a shorter leg. After applying some pressure to straighten the keyboard, all four rubber feet now sit evenly on the desk.

I wish German B&M stores would sell anything other than the cheapest shit, being able to try one of these keyboard would make my life quite easy.

From what I've read, the MX-reds need a lot of getting used to, and can be hard for noobs to mechanical keyboards. I'm still thinking those might be the right switches for me, as I prefer keyboards that are quiet and easy to press.

Right now on the european side of the pond, I'm leaning towards the QPAD. I've heard the whole thing where it's supposedly a rebranded Xarmor which were shit, luckily German consumer law gives me 14 days to mail the thing back for a full refund (minus shipping), for any reason I want.

Gives me a chance to try one of these switches....

Black, Blue, Red, Brown...how many different types are there? What is the difference between these four types?

WhipperSnapper said:

Black, Blue, Red, Brown...how many different types are there? What is the difference between these four types?

Click to expand...

this thread:

http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide

I've had one for about 6 months and like it. I don't think its as horrible as everybody says. The software is buggy as hell though and I did have issues with mine til I uninstalled it and ran it off Windows drivers.

I did however run across my first issue with the keyboard itself last night playing Batman AA. When fighting Solomon Grundy, you have to run around holding the W and Space keys and when you get over those vent things you have to double tap 3 to do a quick fire of Batman's explosive gel. It wouldn't do it everytime. Barely half the time. I can register 6 keys on those NKRO test websites but that particular combination didn't work. I pulled out my G510 (which I dearly love despite not being mechanical) and it worked like a charm.

So for looks (which I think look awesome) and typing the BWU is a good keyboard. For gaming I now give it an F despite being one of the few Razer defenders on here due to the software and now this hitch in gaming although it took me 6 months to find this one hitch its still a problem. Any gaming keyboard should be able to do a 3 key combination regardless which keys they are.

So its with a heavy heart that I cannot recommend the BWU.

The Black Widow doesn't feel right. As I understand it the switches are plate mounted instead of PCB mounted and the latter just feel better. The Filco, Cherry and Das Keyboard unit's I've used are simply superior. I tried to like the Black Widow, I really did but I went back to my Das Keyboard Professional. More than that I've experienced firmware issues with it and numerous motherboards on my test bench. About half the boards I reviewed don't work right with it.

Junk in my opinion.

I have a BWU which I modded with O-rings and have been quite happy with it. I came from a G15 so I don't have prior mech keyboard experience. I may be ordering a WASD keyboard soon with red switches to compare...we'll see.

Dan_D said:

The Black Widow doesn't feel right. As I understand it the switches are plate mounted instead of PCB mounted and the latter just feel better. The Filco, Cherry and Das Keyboard unit's I've used are simply superior. I tried to like the Black Widow, I really did but I went back to my Das Keyboard Professional. More than that I've experienced firmware issues with it and numerous motherboards on my test bench. About half the boards I reviewed don't work right with it.

Junk in my opinion.

Click to expand...

Hey Dan - off the top of your head, do you know if the BWU worked with Asus P5B deluxe wifi? I have it and it seems to be working fine, but just wanted to know if you had any further insight?

I never used Das, Filco or Cherry keyboards, so I can't really compare the BWU to other blue switch mechanicals, however, I love typing on my BWU.

Nearsite said:

Hey Dan - off the top of your head, do you know if the BWU worked with Asus P5B deluxe wifi? I have it and it seems to be working fine, but just wanted to know if you had any further insight?

I never used Das, Filco or Cherry keyboards, so I can't really compare the BWU to other blue switch mechanicals, however, I love typing on my BWU.

Click to expand...

I didn't have the Black Widow back then. So I definitely didn't use it with the ASUS P5B Deluxe WiFi / AP. And again when it comes to switches, apparently the PCB mounted switches feel a lot better to me. That and the oddball firmware issues were the only problems I had with it. I liked the general design and the macro software well enough. The feature set was there, and I wish to god I liked the Razer Black Widow Ultimate as I'd love a keyboard with backlit keys and Cherry MX Blue switches so long as they were PCB mounted.

The problem is there are keyboards at the same price as the BWU and better quality. If some one pushes you towards a higher quality keyboard its not being elitist. People into mechanical keyboards have a hard time believing that people will buy a low quality mechanical keyboard because of reasons other than build quality of the keyboard. (lights, macro buttons, it looks cool). One of the biggest reasons people buy these keyboards is lights. Which is sad.


BWU is a better keyboard that 99% of the keybaords out there. It's quality just isn't up to par with some of the mid-range mechanical keyboards. If some one has a BWU its not worth getting another mechanical keyboard for most people. But, if you are in the market for a mechanical keyboard sacrificing quality for pretty lights may not be the best choice; but it seems to be the trend on this forum and a sin on others.

I wouldn't worry about it breaking. Getting it fixed might be another story.

I've had my BW for about 6 months now. I ended up giving it to my brother and he seems to like it. I notice the wear/shine isn't that bad.

Overall it's decent. I got mine for much cheaper then retailer price, so I would say it's worth it

100inch said:

The problem is there are keyboards at the same price as the BWU and better quality. If some one pushes you towards a higher quality keyboard its not being elitist. People into mechanical keyboards have a hard time believing that people will buy a low quality mechanical keyboard because of reasons other than build quality of the keyboard. (lights, macro buttons, it looks cool). One of the biggest reasons people buy these keyboards is lights. Which is sad.


BWU is a better keyboard that 99% of the keybaords out there. It's quality just isn't up to par with some of the mid-range mechanical keyboards. If some one has a BWU its not worth getting another mechanical keyboard for most people. But, if you are in the market for a mechanical keyboard sacrificing quality for pretty lights may not be the best choice; but it seems to be the trend on this forum and a sin on others.

Click to expand...

I agree. The BWU is usually around $120-130 and for that price I'd get a Das. I've seen the regular Blackwidow on sale for as low as $60 though, and for that price I don't think there's a better board out there. All you're really missing out on are some USB/audio ports and backlighting, which, IMO, is not that important.

SLiGuy said:

I agree. The BWU is usually around $120-130 and for that price I'd get a Das. I've seen the regular Blackwidow on sale for as low as $60 though, and for that price I don't think there's a better board out there. All you're really missing out on are some USB/audio ports and backlighting, which, IMO, is not that important.

Click to expand...

I would still get the BWU over the DAS for gaming. The ability to macro and assign anything to a key is huge. I actually like backlit keyboards sooooo....

They really should dump the USB/Audio and drop the price 30 bucks.

I've had the stealth w/ the browns for about a month. Love it.

delvryboy said:

I've had the stealth w/ the browns for about a month. Love it.

Click to expand...

I wanted to pick up the stealth as well, but they only sell it on the razer store and it's OOS at the moment, however I really like the cherry blue's of the regular edition. I wish they made a black widow ultimate deluxe that had:

LED backlighting
Wrist rest
Macros
Cherry Blue
Nkey rolloever

I can do without the extra audio ports and usb ports on my keyboard as I have like 2 on my pc and 2 more on my monitor that rarely get used.

Nearsite said:

I wanted to pick up the stealth as well, but they only sell it on the razer store and it's OOS at the moment, however I really like the cherry blue's of the regular edition. I wish they made a black widow ultimate deluxe that had:

LED backlighting
Wrist rest
Macros
Cherry Blue
Nkey rolloever

I can do without the extra audio ports and usb ports on my keyboard as I have like 2 on my pc and 2 more on my monitor that rarely get used.

Click to expand...

Yeah, when they get them in, they go oos in about 10 minutes. It took me 3 cycles to get 1.

I received the BWU for Christmas and I've had no complaints thus far. I haven't had a mechanical keyboard for years now but I started reading on them and decided that I would benefit from one as I do enjoy writing quite a bit. In that regard it has been wonderful. Typing is just so much more of a pleasure and I am very glad after having done my research on switch types to choose the Blues. Yes, it's noisy but the tactile feedback and experience is just so much better than the G15 or G510 that I had been using for years. I'm already getting more proficient at not bottoming out the keys as well which helps with the sound of course. As far as gaming goes I haven't had any issues in regards to keys not being recognized. I do miss the dedicated media keys like on my old Logitechs though, and the volume wheel was just fantastic as I could adjust volume on the fly really quickly with it. I've not bothered with the drivers as I don't use the macro keys and it works just fine without the drivers. Overall it has been one of the best improvements in using my computer since my first five button mouse (Microsoft Wireless IntelliMouse Explorer way back when and a G5 now). I have my G510 hooked up to my laptop and when I use it, even in this very short time frame, I am still stunned at just how much less I enjoy typing on it now.

Nearsite said:

I wanted to pick up the stealth as well, but they only sell it on the razer store and it's OOS at the moment, however I really like the cherry blue's of the regular edition. I wish they made a black widow ultimate deluxe that had:

LED backlighting
Wrist rest
Macros
Cherry Blue
Nkey rolloever

I can do without the extra audio ports and usb ports on my keyboard as I have like 2 on my pc and 2 more on my monitor that rarely get used.

Click to expand...

Other than the backlight and macro keys it should be very easy to find.
Wrist rests are a bad habit and usually do more harm than good and true macro keys are illegal in most games. So there is a reason they are absent on a lot of keyboards.

Gmok Bonecrusha said:

I would still get the BWU over the DAS for gaming. The ability to macro and assign anything to a key is huge. I actually like backlit keyboards sooooo....

They really should dump the USB/Audio and drop the price 30 bucks.

Click to expand...

Having had both and used both for gaming, I can't agree. I've never really found macros in most games to be all that important or even useful. The difference in feel is like night and day. The Black Widow is just horrid. I can understand wanting the lights, but for me that's just not enough.

Gmok Bonecrusha said:

I would still get the BWU over the DAS for gaming. The ability to macro and assign anything to a key is huge. I actually like backlit keyboards sooooo....

Click to expand...

Im with ya on the backlit keyboards. I have my rig set up in a fairly dim room and the backlit keys are a great help to me as I type with the 2 finger method. Im pretty good at it and can type 85% of things without looking at the keyboard but when I need to find something like a dollar sign or some other key I dont usually hit, its nice to have it lit. Plus they just look cool and I dont think Im a poser because I like a cool looking keyboard and mouse.

Now while Im with you also on macros being handy for games, the problem with the Black Widow was that their software is so buggy that I gave up and used the Windows drivers instead. Problem with this is that you cant use the macros when youre using the Windows drivers.

Plus, like I said, the thing wouldnt work properly during a boss level fight on Batman AC. Sure I could stop running (release the space bar) when I got over those vents and double tapped 3 really quick but I dont think I should have to make those trade offs on a $120 gaming keyboard.

Thats why Im just gonna stick with this G510 for a while. Its got more macros than Ill ever need, superb software and drivers, backlit keys and I can press any combination of 6 keys and they register.

Dan_D said:

Having had both and used both for gaming, I can't agree. I've never really found macros in most games to be all that important or even useful. The difference in feel is like night and day. The Black Widow is just horrid. I can understand wanting the lights, but for me that's just not enough.

Click to expand...

Hey Dan,

Would it be possible for you to explain the difference on this thread? What makes typing with the same cherry blue switches night and day on two different keyboards? Does it feel more solid on the Deck keyboard as opposed to the BW?

Nearsite said:

Hey Dan,

Would it be possible for you to explain the difference on this thread? What makes typing with the same cherry blue switches night and day on two different keyboards? Does it feel more solid on the Deck keyboard as opposed to the BW?

Click to expand...

It's hard to describe the feeling. Essentially the Das Keyboard sounds different, and feels different. The clicking is muffled slightly and it isn't as satisfying. The Black Widow keys feel almost mushy, and I they've got a shorter travel. But not in a good way if that makes any sense.

Still haven't even opened the BWU... thinking about returning it and ordering a WASD board for $10 cheaper. I think the thing that bothers me the most is that the BWU is 2KRO. Yeah yeah supposedly it has an 'optimized gaming matrix' I guess meaning that the WASD keys can all be depressed simultaneously, but still.

I just wish I knew someone with a WASD board so I could see/feel the build quality first hand before comitting to a purchase.

Blue Falcon said:

Still haven't even opened the BWU... thinking about returning it and ordering a WASD board for $10 cheaper. I think the thing that bothers me the most is that the BWU is 2KRO. Yeah yeah supposedly it has an 'optimized gaming matrix' I guess meaning that the WASD keys can all be depressed simultaneously, but still.

I just wish I knew someone with a WASD board so I could see/feel the build quality first hand before comitting to a purchase.

Click to expand...

I'm local to them and visited their store. I would be HIGHLY surprised if you weren't satisfied with your purchase.

I got to bang around on a few of their keyboards and it's definitely solid stuff. I'll be picking one up when I get some spare cash soon enough


Also, I may be the minority but I've had 0 issues with the Razor software at all. Have made macros (though the process is sorta dumb, once you learn how it's easy) and they work flawlessly.

soulesschild said:

Also, I may be the minority but I've had 0 issues with the Razor software at all. Have made macros (though the process is sorta dumb, once you learn how it's easy) and they work flawlessly.

Click to expand...

What I'm really puzzled about is why you would need software for macros in the first place. Does the keyboard not recognize the macro buttons at all without the software installed?

It's been awhile since I had a keyboard with macro keys (my old trusty gen1 Logitech G15 died a couple years ago) but if I remember right most games would register a keypress from the macro keys whether the keyboard software was installed or not. For instance in WoW scripting for keys is pretty easy...

I guess the software is for all the games that don't have any sort of scripting built in?

Good lord I'm turning into an old fart and falling behind on the times. Give me my old Commodore 64 - now there was a keyboard.

Had mine for a year now. Like it a lot with no thought of replacing it. I wanted mechanical and backlit keys since I play mostly late at night in dark so the BWU was a perfected choice.

Blue Falcon said:

What I'm really puzzled about is why you would need software for macros in the first place. Does the keyboard not recognize the macro buttons at all without the software installed?

It's been awhile since I had a keyboard with macro keys (my old trusty gen1 Logitech G15 died a couple years ago) but if I remember right most games would register a keypress from the macro keys whether the keyboard software was installed or not. For instance in WoW scripting for keys is pretty easy...

I guess the software is for all the games that don't have any sort of scripting built in?

Good lord I'm turning into an old fart and falling behind on the times. Give me my old Commodore 64 - now there was a keyboard.

Click to expand...

There is a way to record macros "on the fly," however, it still requires the Razer software.

i am absolutley furious with mine. it stopped working out of nowhere

jeremyshaw said:

this thread:

http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide

Click to expand...

thanks for that link

Blue Falcon said:

I've seen the Stealth... I didn't like it for the same reason I don't like the Corsair K60/K90 - the key feedback just isn't there.

The noise of the switches on the BW/BWU doesn't bother me at all and I really like the little 'snap' of feedback they give when you type. The Steelseries had the same type of feedback as well. The Corsair and Razer BW Stealth just seem to bottom out without any real feedback whatsoever... I guess some people like it (and the quiet that goes with it) but I sure don't.

I was unaware that the BW Stealth had 6KRO though, didn't see that anywhere on the literature but it would be nice for hardcore gamers I suppose.

Click to expand...

Um... there's a lot of conflicting things in your posts. Put simply... it sounds like you might be mixing up which boards you've tried and which ones you haven't.

Basically what you're saying is this:

Corsair: Bad (Red Linear switches)

Steelseries: Good (Black Linear switches)


BWU: Good (Blue Tactile clicky switch)

BWU Stealth: Bad (Brown Tactile switch)


It doesn't jive. The keys in both Steelseries mechanical boards provide no tactile feedback whatsoever when typing. They're linear, just like the red switches in the corsair boards. They do not provide the same kind of feedback as the blue switches in the BW/BWU, or any feedback at all for that matter. They're linear switches. That's just how they work. And the black switches in the Steelseries boards are functionally very close to identical to the red switches in the Corsair boards.

Next, the BWU. The brown switches in the BWStealth and the blue switches in the BWU are both tactile and both provide feedback during the keypress, the only difference is in the point during the switches travel that the switch actuation occurs and how long it takes the key to reset. Browns typically make better gaming boards even if just because it's significantly easier to double tap keys on a board with browns than a board with blues. The keys reset faster.

I was right there with you until you said Cherry MX Browns were "significantly better" for gaming. That's nonsense. The main advantage they have is that they are quieter as some people can't stand the noise made by Cherry MX Blue switches. Aside from that, any difference they might have is nearly impossible to perceive. I've played games on Blacks, Browns, Alps switches, IBM Model M's and various units based on the Cherry MX Blue switches. There is no difference in how good I am or how the game play really felt based on any keyboard. Hell it's the same with rubber dome garbage boards. It's just not as pleasant to touch because the keys feel like a bad of dogshit and congealing bacon grease being pressed down.

I sent my back today. (BW ULTIMATE)
The board was ok, but I think I just didn't like the blue switches.

DSee said:

I sent my back today. (BW ULTIMATE)
The board was ok, but I think I just didn't like the blue switches.

Click to expand...

It's hard to tell if you don't like blues or not. I like my Das Keyboard Professional with Cherry MX Blues a lot. I had a Black Widow and hated it. Something felt off about the keys.

Dan_D said:

It's hard to tell if you don't like blues or not. I like my Das Keyboard Professional with Cherry MX Blues a lot. I had a Black Widow and hated it. Something felt off about the keys.

Click to expand...

Got it...

I also have a Filco Ninja2 Majestouch (browns) and a Thermaltake Meka (black). I love both of them, but I'm having a hard time adapting to the Meka's layout.

Thinking about getting a Corsair K60/K90 to try the red switches out. (not sure yet)

ThinJ said:

It doesn't jive. The keys in both Steelseries mechanical boards provide no tactile feedback whatsoever when typing. They're linear, just like the red switches in the corsair boards. They do not provide the same kind of feedback as the blue switches in the BW/BWU, or any feedback at all for that matter. They're linear switches. That's just how they work. And the black switches in the Steelseries boards are functionally very close to identical to the red switches in the Corsair boards.

Click to expand...

Actually you're correct, I think when I said Steelseries I was actually thinking about the SIIG (White Alps switches) when I typed this. However even with the non-tactile nature of the Steelseries I actually found them pretty nice to type on compared to the Corsair. Even though the switches are the similar (red vs. black) the Steelseries just 'felt' better. My problem with the Steelseries is the L shaped enter key and the resulting shifting of the pipe and shrinking of the backspace keys (and I think on one of the models the /? gets moved around too)

I guess I'm going to have to find the Stealth again and try it out again, I could have sworn I didn't care for it but as many keyboards as I've tried out lately I guess I may have been thinking of something else. However the 2KRO thing is really starting to piss me off so I might be looking at buying something online with blues or browns that does at least 6KRO.